₦airaland Forum

obynzo:
That your attempt at overt sarcasm doesn't make you smart at all.

Omooba77:
Naptu2 talk now oo.....

obynzo:
Was the track specification considered in the purchase of this train or is it another propaganda. Mark my words by next year we will see the trains they purchased

naptu2:
A train is a line of interconnected vehicles. In this particular post I am referring to railway trains, that is, trains that run on a dedicated rail track.

Almost all trains are made up of locomotives and railcars. The word locomotion basically means movement and a locomotive is a vehicle that pulls or pushes the rest of the train. Some people refer to locomotives as "train engines".

There are various types of locomotives, such as steam locomotives, diesel locomotives and electric locomotives.

A railcar could be a wagon of a coach. Wagons are used to carry goods, while coaches are used to carry people.


A wagon could be made in the shape of a tank (to carry liquid goods), it could be a covered goods wagon (to carry things like yams, cows, etc) or it could be a flat bed wagon (to carry things like steel rods, etc).


So how can someone ask if a train is an electric train or a locomotive? Does that make sense??


Picture 1) An electric locomotive

Picture 2) A diesel locomotive

Picture 3) A steam locomotive

Picture 4) A coach

Picture 5) A covered goods wagon

Picture 6) A tank wagon

Picture 7) A flatbed wagon

Picture 8 ) A flatbed wagon carrying poles.

naptu2:
Oh yes! This will be much faster, easier and simpler.

I started writing this thread sometime between 2012 and 2015 because of arguments that I had with a friend on Nairaland.

The Nigerian rail system was collapsing throughout the 1980s. Despite the fact that President Babangida launched the integrated mass transit system c1987 (they had trains running the Lagos-Ibadan route) and that NRC engineers had built a locomotive on the chassis of a Peugeot J5 bus, the railways eventually went comatose in the 1990s.

President Obasanjo made lots of plans to revive the railway system, but they could not be put into practice before he left. President Jonathan came and practicalised those plans and that's when I had the arguments with my friend.


You see, a lot of people see fancy things in movies and TV series and they immediately want them, but they do not consider what these things are used for. So, any time a thread was created about the railway improvement programme, my friend would complain that they are not high speed trains. So, beyond what I wrote in the quote below, I'm now going to address some of the other issues that people complained about back then.


1) Locomotive: People often immediately complained when they saw the word "locomotive". You would think that it means "inferior trains". Of course that's not what it means. It simply means the part of the train that has the engine and pulls the rest of the train. I suspect that the people who believe that it is a negative word assume that it is only reserved for steam or diesel trains, but there are (of course) electric locomotives. That's because it simply means the part of the train that is pulling the carriages or wagons.


2) What made our trains slow? As is always the case when Nigeria buys things, some people claimed that the trains that were bought were 18th century trains and that's why they were very slow. That is of course not true.

I monitored the situation at the time and the government struck a deal with General Electric for its subsidiary in Brazil to produce the trains that were used at the time (that reminds me of the deal the Federal Government had with Mercedes Benz Brazil to produce the Festac buses). It's true that the trains ran very slowly when they were in Nigeria, but that was not because of the locomotives. Some of those locomotives that were bought from GE could run at 180 to 200 KMPH, but they went much slower in Nigeria because of the rail lines. They were running on narrow gauge lines and the train drivers had to go very slowly to prevent the trains from derailing at bends and so on. I remember when a reporter took a ride on the train. It was running normally until it started to rain and then it suddenly started going at snail speed.

It's just like what's going on right now. The new trains on the standard gauge lines can go even faster than they are going at the moment, but the minister said that the drivers have to reduce their speed to prevent the trains from hitting cows (as it happened on the Kaduna-Abuja line) and people (especially people who trade and do other business on and around the Lagos-Ibadan rail line).

So the problem wasn't the trains.


3) Electricity: They complained back then that the trains were diesel locomotives (they were actually diesel-electric, that is, they can be powered by both diesel and electric engines). The fact of the matter is that we have not yet even solved the problem of providing electricity to power our homes, how then do you want us to provide electricity for the rail lines? Furthermore, we have also not solved the problem of encroachment on our rail lines, imagine what would happen if they were electrified!


4 High speed rail: The issue of high speed rail is addressed in the quote below.

naptu2:
Here's a summary of a thread that I started writing 4 or 5 years ago. I knew exactly what I wanted to write and wrote an outline for it, I gathered lots of links and pictures to buttress my point and I tasked my memory for things from the 1970s and '80s to add to the thread, but I never actually created the thread. Well here's a very short summary.

There are many types of train services, but Nigerians seem fixated on just one type of service - high speed rail. If you listen to some Nigerians, you would think that all rail services should be high speed rail services, but of course that's not the case.


High speed rail services, by definition, have trains that run at speeds of 200kmph or more.



Types of rail services

1) Metro

These are train services within cities that provide mass transit services. They usually carry a large number of people on their daily commute and they usually have a lot of stations within the city.


2) Freight trains

These are trains that carry heavy goods. Freight trains are usually slower than passenger trains because of the weight of the goods that they carry.

3) Regional or national passenger services

These are passenger train services that carry people between cities or right across countries.


4) High speed rail services

These are rail services that have trains that run at 200kmph or faster (for existing tracks) or 250kmph or faster (for new tracks).

High speed rail services are limited by physics and economics. There must be enough distance between stations for the trains to gain enough speed and the tracks must have a large turning radius (because of the speed at which the trains are travelling). This is why high speed trains are not used for regular metro services (because metro services usually have a lot of stations within short distances from each other).

High speed train services also usually have fewer stations and are more expensive, so there must be enough passengers to be able to cover the cost of running the trains.

Most high speed rail services run from airports to city centres. Airports are usually built some distance away from cities because of the problem of noise pollution and also because airports need to be some distance away from tall objects like sky scrapers. However, many travellers would like to get from the airport to the city centre in the shortest possible time. High speed rail services are therefore used to ferry people from the airport directly to the city centre.

High speed rail services are also used to take passengers between a country's two major cities. Some countries have a political capital and another city that is their economic capital. high speed rail services are used to ferry people directly between these two cities (e.g. the Beijing-Shanghai High Speed railway).

High speed trains are usually not used as freight trains. There are no high speed trains that are designed to carry freight. The only high speed freight trains are in France and these are trains that were originally designed to carry passengers, but they have been converted to carry freight.

---

So, for example, it doesn't make any sense to have high speed rail services on a metro system in Lagos (e.g. the Lagos Blue Line). However, I have identified two routes in Nigeria in which a high speed rail service would work.

1) From Ikeja to Lagos Island: The international airport is in Ikeja and Ikeja is one of the 4 major business districts in Lagos, yet it is relatively far away from the other 3 business districts. Sometimes people can spend up to 4 hours in traffic while trying to go from Ikeja to one of the other 3 business districts. Therefore, a high speed line from the airport, Ikeja Business District or Ikeja Bus Stop to either Marina, Victoria Island, Ikoyi or Lekki would make sense.


2) From Lagos to Abuja: Lagos is Nigeria's economic capital, while Abuja is Nigeria's political capital. Lots of people fly between Lagos to Abuja everyday. However, weather conditions (harmattan, rain storms, etc.) could lead to significant number of flight cancellations. A high speed rail line between Lagos and Abuja could work, especially if its fares are cheaper than airline fares.

However, these are the only two routes I can think of in Nigeria where high speed rail lines would make sense all year round.

tollyboy5:
Lol so this is for the reclinerail. Has the rail been completed?
What about the blue line rail?
Theblueline should come first nau!

naptu2:
Aha! Just as I was going to post last year. The Red Line will share tracks with the Federal Government's standard gauge line for a large part of its route. As I thought, the Lagos State Government will simply construct the extension to the Lagoon Bridge. This means that the project can be completed before the specified duration of two years.

The other thing that I was wondering about was the connection to the airport. It seems that there's no longer going to be a spur to the airport but rather a sky walk will be built to connect the rail line and the airport.

This Red Line is even more important than the Blue Line. Governor Sanwoolu said (at the tribute that was held for Governor Jakande) that both lines will be completed in the next two years.


What I was going to post last year was that it'll be very easy for Governor Sanwoolu to get both lines operational. Simply piggy back the Red Line on the Federal Government line and then begin a Blue Line service from Marina to Mile 2. The line from Marina to Mile 2 is almost complete despite the Federal Government interference in 2013 that caused delays.

Some people think that Ambode delayed the construction of that line and basically abandoned it. That's not true. The line stopped at Ijora when Fashola left Office. It was during Ambode's tenure that work began at Marina. The real cause of delays is that the Federal Government blocked the loans in 2013. That created a huge financial crisis and so the work had to progress very slowly because there wasn't enough money to fund the contractors. I'll explain that better when I finish the 3rd Mainland Bridge post (something similar happened to the 3rd Mainland Bridge and that's why something that should have been finished by 1985 was actually finished in 1990).

This is the Red Line route map.

tolue42:
So you believe what you read on Twitter? Ambode even distanced himself from any Lagos Rail during his tenure.....so why are you people being mischief like this ?

sw:
I hope it will not be the refurbished ones sha.

MondayOsunbor:
Governor of Nigeria's Lagos State traveled to Milwaukee to complete purchase from train manufacturer Talgo

na two old train! he went to buy with all his cabinet

Ekpekus:

I have just one question...
Is it an electric or locomotive train?

If it is the later, then forget aboouuurrrrit.

Trains intended for unbuilt Milwaukee-Madison high-speed rail line going to Nigeria.

Governor of Nigeria's Lagos State visits Milwaukee to complete purchase from train manufacturer Talgo

By Christine Hatfield
Published: Tuesday, January 18, 2022, 10:00am
Updated: Tuesday, January 18, 2022, 2:55pm

Two trains originally intended for a high-speed rail line to connect Madison and Milwaukee are headed for Nigeria. The governor of that country's Lagos State was in Milwaukee on Tuesday to purchase the unused trains.

The trains are set to become part of West Africa's first operational metro system, according to a press release.

At a public event at the Milwaukee facilities of Spanish train manufacturer Talgo, acting Milwaukee Mayor Cavalier Johnson welcomed Lagos State Gov. Babajide Sanwo-Olu.

"It's a little bittersweet," Johnson said after the event. "I'm sending my congratulations to the governor in Lagos State in Nigeria, but also a little disappointed that we missed out on the opportunity to have those trainsets operating here in Milwaukee and in Wisconsin."

It's the latest turn in a decade-long saga revolving around high-speed rail, which Wisconsin Public Radio previously covered in the 2019 podcast series "Derailed."

Milwaukee Alder Robert Bauman was not at the event, but said the ending is much like the entire storyline.

"It's kind of an absurd ending to an absurd tale," Bauman said.

In 2009, Wisconsin's then-Gov. Jim Doyle, a Democrat, announced a deal with Talgo for two new trains to be built in the state and used for a high-speed rail line between Milwaukee and Madison. In the same year, Wisconsin was awarded $810 million for the project in a federal stimulus bill.

Frank Busalacchi was Wisconsin's Secretary of Transportation at the time.

"I certainly didn't expect what happened to happen," said Busalacchi. "It was unfortunate, but I think now, as you look and see where the world is going, not just our country, where the world is going, it was the right thing to do."

The plans died off after Republican Scott Walker became governor. But by 2012, Talgo had built the trains, and sent an invoice to the state for them. Later that year, Talgo terminated the contract and sued the state, kicking off a court dispute that lasted almost three years.

Ultimately, under the terms of a settlement between Wisconsin and Talgo, the state paid the company a total of $50 million for the trains, which remained under the company's ownership.

"The partisanship got so deep that literally, Wisconsin is making decisions that amount to shooting yourself in both feet," Bauman said. "Who buys a set of train cars, refuses to complete the contract, ends up getting sued, settles, pays out another $50-some million in damages, and then you don't even get the cars?"

The trains sat unused in an Amtrak facility in Indiana for years, a lasting reminder of the dispute. They eventually returned to Talgo's plant in Milwaukee in 2019.

"I'm glad that they were able now to sell them to somebody, that somebody is going to use them," Busalacchi said. "The fact that after many years, Talgo's found a buyer for the trains, I mean, kudos to them."

Around when the trains came back to Milwaukee, Talgo spokespeople floated the possibility of the trains finding a use on Amtrak's Cascades line in the Pacific Northwest, but last year Amtrak announced Siemens Mobility would produce new trains for the line instead.

"It is what it is," Bauman said. "They're moving on to Nigeria. Good for the Nigerians."

The first phase of the Nigerian metro system the Talgo trains are set to become part of is expected to begin operation later this year, serving up to half a million passengers in the Lagos area daily.

Johnson said conversations about high-speed rail in Wisconsin have not gone away.

"I hope that at some point, we're still able to realize that vision for a more connected community," said Johnson.

For more on the history of high-speed rail in Wisconsin, check out WPR's investigative podcast series, "Derailed."