The Jesus Mysteries (TJM)hypothesis has been around for more than two centuries. Essentially, it posits that the central tenets of the Christian tradition were copied from the Pagan Mysteries of the era (of which there were many - Mithras, Iris, Osiris-Dionysus, etc) and that there never was a REAL human character called Jesus. Since Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy published their popular book, Jesus Mysteries, a number of other historians (professional and amateur) have started investigating the history of Christianity from a purely mythological perspective (Richard Carrier, Earl Doherty, Robert M. Price, R. G. Price).

The central tenets of TJM was that Christianity developed from the cocktail of mystical religions of the 3rd century BCE to the 2-3 century CE. These religions deified a central figure who lived in the allegorical (mythical) world, rather than a real flesh and blood individual. The Gnostics were an example of such religion, in that there did not believe that Jesus was a flesh and blood individual, but rather appeared to be flesh and blood ( docetism). Gnostic belief cause a lot of trouble for early Christian doctrine, in that if Jesus was never flesh and blood, then it could never be said that he suffered for mankind. With the ascendency of orthodoxy Christianity, Gnosticism was persecuted out of the existence by the early Christian church. Ironically, to counter Gnostic doctrine, early church fathers were motivated to interpolate existing gospels and pauline epistles inserting anti-gnostic material. Freke and Gandy postulate that the apostle Paul may indeed have been Gnostic and with orthodoxy winning the battle for supremacy, orthodoxy adapted Paul's message to fit their doctrine. Their case for this thesis is the notion that nowhere does Paul, in any of his surviving works, show an intimate knowledge of the man Jesus, in flesh and blood. That there are Gnostic ideas in the NT is also supported by a number of NT scholars today, notably Robert M. Price, Elaine Pagel. However, this is still a new area of research.

Gnosticism was clearly one of the mystical forms of religions of the early first millenium, deriving most of its character from the other mystical tradition of the region. Within a few decades of the establishment of orthodoxy Christianity, its similarity to the Pagan cults of the day did not fail to be noticed by some of its critics, the most famous of whom was Celsus( c. 170 CE.), a philosopher and satirist.

The similarity between Christianity and the Pagan Mysteries (Osirus-Dionysus, Horus, Mythras, Iris etc) so disturbed some of the early Christian fathers, such as Justin Martyr (100 -165 CE), that some of them have to resort to the most bizarre of reason to explain the similarity to the Pagan cults. This is what Celsus had to say about early Christianity;

"Are these distinctive happenings unique to the Christiains - and if so, how are they unique? Or are ours to be accounted myths ans theirs believed? What reasons do the Christians give for the distinctiveness of their beliefs? In truth there is nothing at all unusual about what the Christians believes, except that the believe it to the exclusion of more comprehensive truths about God".

The 2nd century Christian apologist, Justin Martyr, on being countered that Christianity had borrowed all its basic features from the existing cults of the Greco-Egyptico-Romano-Persion world, this is what he had to say;

"Having heard it proclaimed through the prophets that the Christ was to come and that the ungodly amongst men were to be punished by fire, the wicked spirit put forth many to be called Sons of God, under the impression that they would be able to produce in men the idea that the things that were said with regards to Christ were merely marvellous tales, like the things that were said by the poets".

The father Tertullian also used the diabolical mimicry excuse to explain the close similarity between Christianity and the pre-existing cults at the time. This is Tertullian;

"The devil, whose business is to pervert the truth mimics the exact circumstances of the Divine Sacraments. He baptises his believers and promises forgiveness o fsins from the Sacred Fount, and thereby initiates them into the religion of Mithras. Thus he celebrates the oblation of bread, andbrings in the symbol of resurrection. Let u stherefore acknowledge the craftiness of the devil, who caopies certain things of those that be Divine".



Essentially, these early Christian apologist were saying "So what, our religions looks similar to your religions, but we did not copy from you. The devil mimicked our religion in your religion in anticipation of the advent of our religion". This was the standard excuse given then by the apologist, which has not changed in 2000 years of the evolution of Christianity.

Is it not obvious how desperate the Christians had to go to explain away their wholesale copying of the cults of the Roman world and dressing them up as unique and their own. WHO ARE THE REAL PLAGIARIST?


References
The Jesus Mysteries, Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy
The Jesus Puzzle, Earl Doherty
The Incredibly Shrinking Son of Man, Robert M Price
The Jesus Legend, G. A. Wells
Misquoting Jesus, Bart Erhman
Lost Christianities, Bart Erhman
Jesus - A very Jewish Myth, R. G. Price
The Pagan Christ, Tom Hapur
Jesus For the Non-religious, Bishop John Spelby Spong
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b3a47345f84.htm

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Some of my other threads


The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006

Origin Of Christianity And Diabolical Mimicry In Anticipation
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113860.0.html

On The Prophesy Of The Virgin Birth Of Jesus, Part 2:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113676.0.html

When And From Where Did Jesus Ascend Into Heaven
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113519.0.html

When Was Jesus Born?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113449.0.html

On The Prophesy Of The Virgin Birth Of Jesus [/b]13012dg
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113342.0.html#msg1963529

[b] Was Jesus The Prophesied Messiah? Let's Look At The Evidence.
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113303.0.html

What Are Your Chances Of Being Saved?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113283.0.html

Who Wrote The Gospels And When Were They Written?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113277.0.html#msg1962589

God Selects The Rulers Of Countries; G W Bush, Sadam, Pol Pot, Abacha, Hitler
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113186.0.html#msg1961537

Cannibalism In The Bible: Det 28:53-57, Lev 26:29, Jer 19:9, Ezek 5:10, Lam 4:10
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113181.0.html#msg1961343

What Are The Core Tenets (doctrines, Value And Virtues) Of Christainity?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112990.0.html

What Fate For Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Constantine And Tomás De Torquemada?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112997.0.html#msg1958617

Is The Doctrine Of Trinity Biblical? The Johannine Comma
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112865.0.html#msg1957266

On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 2
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112848.0.html

How Is Salvation Achieved?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-112833.0.html

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426

Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340

Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311

When Was Jesus Crucified?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665

On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam)
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353

Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528

Where Did Sin Originate?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291

For The Non-beleivers Only, 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957

Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919

On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631

Has Atheism Got Principle? No
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180

It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940

Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682

Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268

Great Books About Non-belief
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935

Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg194111quc02137

Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992

What Is The Evidence That The Bible Is The Word Of God?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113161.0.html#msg1960928

Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155

Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158

Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099

Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975

Genesis Vs Genetics
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655

Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-111474.0.html

Jesus Genealogy
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616

£300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508

Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160

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therationalist . . . can you prove to us that Jesus Christ never existed in history? That should be the starting point of ur pointless ramblings, seriously.

4Him:

therationalist . . . can you prove to us that Jesus Christ never existed in history? That should be the starting point of your pointless ramblings, seriously.

I can't prove he did not exist (for reasons you already know), but at least I would expect the stories told of him to be consistent and coherent. Am afraid, that standard is not met in his case. For a god, this is a terrible indictment.

Could he not have ensured that his message remained "cast in stone" as it were for all eternity, never to be conflated with other gods. What is the point of making himself so hard to be believed?

The inconsistencies in the accounts/stories of Jesus stem from the fact that the methods for report events were not much developed as we have them now. Mouth to mouth passage of the stories was bound to introduce several distortions as we humans can never tell a story word for word as we heard it. Written accounts where not mass printed but copied from one manuscript to another by hand when the manuscripts were found to be getting old or damaged. This was also bound to introduce distortion as well as the fact that they were sometimes translated from one language to another with the consequence that there was bound to be some transaliteration utilised one can see where errors could creep in.

The point am trying to make is we make not have the full true accounts but doesnt mean events did not occur or the persons involved did not exist. U therationa are quick to point out the barbaric acts recorded in the bible as evidence; why believe some part n still discredit the same book?

I want to believe that the fact that there are similarities in alot of religions that it provides an evidence that we may not be mistaken to accept belief in the supernatural.

therationa:

I can't prove he did not exist (for reasons you already know), but at least I would expect the stories told of him to be consistent and coherent. Am afraid, that standard is not met in his case. For a god, this is a terrible indictment.

Could he not have ensured that his message remained "cast in stone" as it were for all eternity, never to be conflated with other gods. What is the point of making himself so hard to be believed?

@therationa
A good scholar like you should be able to prove that Jesus did not exist.

If you cannot disprove his existence, then remain quiet, before you wreck you scholarly reputation-----which is bad shape anyway.

I don't need to know the details of the day to day life of Jesus. The essentials have been captured in the Bible and that is good enough for me. The truth is that even if I die today and realize that Heaven and Hell do not exist and Jesus isn't what he claims to be, I'll still be happy I lived my life as a christian.

Reptyle:

I don't need to know the details of the day to day life of Jesus. The essentials have been captured in the Bible and that is good enough for me. The truth is that even if I die today and realize that Heaven and Hell do not exist and Jesus isn't what he claims to be, I'll still be happy I lived my life as a christian.

The fact is the "essentials" are very much in doubt. How can you build a belief system on a base of doubt and forgery and falsehood. Truth trumps all of this for me every single time.

Our civilization has development a systematic methodology for investigating the nature of reality and it has produced tremendous benefits to humankind in the last 300 years. When this methodology is turned to investigate the claims of the bronze age superstitions we inherited, we find very little worthy of truth.

There is an alternative to superstition; it is called naturalism or metaphysical naturalism. This system of belief is founded on the scientific method, amongst other well attested philosophies. You do not need to resort to superstitions - think of all the time you have wasted when such time and effort could have been better spent more progressive endeavours.

therationa:

There is an alternative to superstition; it is called naturalism or metaphysical naturalism. This system of belief is founded on the scientific method, amongst other well attested philosophies. You do not need to resort to superstitions - think of all the time you have wasted when such time and effort could have been better spent more progressive endeavours.

So is this wat u subscribe to?

why don't you check it out : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysical_naturalism

any thoughts?

Would be interesting to see what students of the history of christianity make of this one!

What constitutes proof? Evidence? Is seeing really believing? What about the possible of illusion? Would seeing be proof in that case?

Platinorm:

This is an insult to Christians

In what sense is this an insult to Christians? Are you affirming that it is an insult because they plagiarised their early theology from the local pagan myths and cults around. Or do you mean that to criticise Christianity is an insult to Christians?

I wonder whether any members have got any thoughts on this question.

Check out this for the origin of Christianity

pilgrim.1:

@huxley,

I have requested that this matter be taken to the appropriate thread. I am already aware of Celcus, and the very same thing has happened with the misquotes. I know when I raise issues like this, the slur begin until I show them. Since I did for Tertullian, you guys have not come back to show me any independent sources to show that Timothy and gandy were not misquoting Tertullian. I don't see why I should be trailing these matters on and on where you guys have not been able to oblige my single request. This is why I keep repeating myself ad hominem that perhaps I would have to ignore all other distractions henceforth UNTIL you guys provide me with the direct sources for those misquotes from those authors.

Did you mean ad infinitum or ad hominen?



The fact is, we want to look at the substance of the charge. How does Freke&Gandy misquoting Tertullian refute the charge of plagiarism?

Is ther evidence in the correct version of Tertullian's quote that he was concerned about the similarities between Christianity and the pagan cults?

pilgrim.1:

Excuse me, huxley? What sort of talk and excuse is that? Were YOU not the one who quoted those authors and left them standing for weeks about the same diabolical mimicry? Did Freke and Gandy change their minds on that recently? How come you are given to making such excuses? This is disappointing, really - and I suppose that I may not have to keep this party up any further. My apologies.

But these two more things:

The charges were made: they were not justified: your authors misquoted Tertullian and others: have you found me any independent sources confirming that your authors were not misquoting them?

You quoted them, based your thinking on their postulations and misquotes, left them on for weeks, used them as distractions in your critique against Christianity; . . . and now you are telling me they are a "distraction"?

Okay-okay, gentlemen. I should have heeded the warning given by others - I was too heady to take their advice that after I showed the facts against those authors, those who proposed them would have no answers to the simple request I offered.

My warm thanks again - and thanks in advance for any slobbers. I can now leave this matter to rest open for others to see what such authors have done, and your comments about the same authors you once applauded.

Regards.

I have said, let us grant that the quote from Freke and Gandy is wrong. Can we look at the version you presented (is that is the genuine one) to glean any charges of plagiarism. I submit that we can.

Now that is the issue. We are NOT debating whether Freke&Gandy got the quote wrong, much as you would like to to derail the thread. If you have difficulties understand this concept, let me put it in another context.

Supposing, while browsing through some text in the library, I had stumbled upon the genuine text from Tertullian. Can I infer from that text that Tertullian was concerned about similarities between Christianity and pagan cults of the day?

If you want me to start another thread to debate the Intellectual honesty of Freke and Gandy, I can do that.

If the French language has a word for a structure called a coline which is a projection upwards from the earth . . .

And we also find that the English language has a word for a structure called a hill . . . .

and in that there is also a word in the yoruba language called Oke . . . .

Who can we conclude stole the idea from whom?

[size=13pt]<sup>Because of being steeped in, believing, and living a lie, in the the advanced stages of Christianity, the Christian takes on an artificial appearance and begins to look like the lie: The well-known pasty look with the smiley mask. The lie emerges in the physical self.

The following respond provide proof that everything in the Christian religion and in the bible has been STOLEN from other religions that predated it from all around the world. Christianity is a tool for removing spiritual/occult knowledge from the populace so this power can be kept in the hands of a few to manipulate and enslave the masses.

To really understand the Bible and see the truth, one must be very well educated in the occult. The mass mind is very powerful. When one studies long enough and acquires advanced knowledge of the occult, the truth is utterly shocking. The entire Judeo/Christian Bible is a hoax of catastrophic proportions with a very clear objective using subliminal means and the channeled psychic energy of believers.

Whenever Christianity or its cohorts took control of a country or region, the ancient spiritual texts and records were removed and/or destroyed and those who had spiritual knowledge were mass murdered by the Inquisition. This took out of circulation the very knowledge those in power have used and still use to manipulate the ignorant population using spiritual/occult power.

The Bible is one of the most powerful subliminal tools used by a select few to enslave the masses. Most people are unaware of this because they lack knowledge regarding the occult, thought power, and psychic energy. The powers that be work to reinforce the belief that the occult, powers of the mind and spirit are nonsense or just plain bunk.

Destroying the ancient records allowed an alternative invented "history" to be written which has disconnected humanity from its true origins. Controlling history is important because if one manipulates how people see what we call the past, this influences the present and the future.

The entire Bible is an extremely powerful subliminal tool full of occult numbers, messages, allegories, and stolen material, which has been corrupted from ancient religions. In addition, this book has been infused with psychic energy and power to instill fear and to make it believable . When one's eyes are opened and one has the necessary knowledge, the *spell* will no longer be effective . The entire underlying theme of the Judeo/Christian Bible is the establishment of the fictitious history of the Jewish people in the mass mind. What the mass mind believes has power and the energy to make manifest in reality as thoughts are energy

There are vacuum-sealed vaults in the Vatican library containing thousands upon thousands of ancient esoteric books from around the world that have been stolen and hoarded over the years and kept out of public circulation. The Catholic Church, which is the root of the Christian religion, is controlled by a secret society that has abused occult power to enslave the masses. The end goal is the total enslavement of humanity, which they have worked towards relentlessly and ruthlessly.

All of this has directly affected each and every one of us. Humanity has suffered unnecessarily because of the denial of this knowledge. People have been coerced over the centuries into paying for their own damnation to the tune of billions and billions of currencies to keep this lie prospering and continuing strong. The survival and prosperity of this vicious hoax on humanity requires only ONE thing- A LACK OF KNOWLEDGE!</sup> [/size]

4Him:
therationalist . . . can you prove to us that Jesus Christ never existed in history? That should be the starting point of ur pointless ramblings, seriously.

The bible itself gives enough evidence that Jesus didn't exist. Matthew says Jesus was born around 6BC while Luke says around 4AD. Why did they contradict themselves if Jesus was born? There are hundreds of claims of each gospel writer that contradicted themselves.

The Jews have insisted that Jesus didn't fulfill any single messianic prophecy in their holy book. That christians manipulated their bible deliberately to support their fictional Jesus. They challenge any christian to pick up their Hebrew bible n compare to what christians hv translated

@therationa
A good scholar like you should be able to prove that Jesus did not exist.

If you cannot disprove his existence, then remain quiet, before you wreck you scholarly reputation-----which is bad shape anyway.

The bible itself disproved his existence. The early church fathers knew Jesus wasn't real but a duplicate of earlier mystic gods