In my days as a Christian, Psalms 91 was one of my favourite passages from the bible. As a kid, I remember memorising the entire chapter and reciting it in church on certain occasions. I really loved the King James version, which I have given below. This is one of the most moving, reassuring and comforting passages from the bible for it gives that feeling of being wrapped up under the protection of god.

In this and in many other passages in the bible, god promises benefits to be experienced here on earth if only one were to love god. Such benefits as excellent health, protection of calamities, accidents, disasters, financial success, etc, etc. In fact, there is a new movement within the Christian body - the prosperity movement - that emphasises the earthly benefits of believing in god.


But what does real life experience out there tell us about the comparisons of those who believe and non-believers?

Do believers enjoy better health?
Do they have better financial positions?
Do they suffer fewer mishaps like accidents?
Are they protected from natural disasters?
Do they have better and happier marriages?
Do they tend to better citizens and commit fewer crimes/offenses?

I am particularly interested in view of reports about some accidental deaths recently involving men-of-gods;

There is a report of a Pastor who drown in a river while trying to perform baptism.
There is also reports of a pastor electrocuted in a pool while performing baptism.
The dead of about 17 christians gather together in a house to exorcise demons.
The ghastly dead of the 50s evangelist William Branham http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_M._Branham.

So are Christian experiencing exactly the same fate as their non-believing counterparts. Or are all the rewards saved up in heaven?

Psalms 91

1He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.

2I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.

3Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.

4He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.

5Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;

6Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.

7A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.

8Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.

9Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;

10There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

11For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.

12They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

13Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet.

14Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.

15He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.

16With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.

huxley:

In this and in many other passages in the bible, god promises benefits to be experienced here on earth if only one were to love god. Such benefits as excellent health, protection of calamities, accidents, disasters, financial success, etc, etc. In fact, there is a new movement within the Christian body - the prosperity movement - that emphasises the earthly benefits of believing in god.

The very begining of confusion . . . read Ps 91 PROPERLY, it is a prayer of David not God making specific promises.

davidylan:

The very begining of confusion . . . read Ps 91 PROPERLY, it is a prayer of David not God making specific promises.

Be that as it may, does god not promise protection to those who believe? Ps 91 may not be apt for this, but there must be passages in the bible where god promises benefits to his followers. Otherwise, whence the biblical support for prosperity ministries?

huxley:

Be that as it may, does god not promise protection to those who believe? Ps 91 may not be apt for this, but there must be passages in the bible where god promises benefits to his followers. Otherwise, whence the biblical support for prosperity ministries?

You render your question invalid the minute you start it with blatant falsehood.

davidylan:

You render your question invalid the minute you start it with blatant falsehood.

You surely have no answer, which is still fine by me. There's nothing new here.

huxley:

You surely have no answer, which is still fine by me. There's nothing new here.

The fact that i have had answers to your other drivel on previous threads is sufficient indication that i have an answer. I will however not give you the benefit of legitimising yet another lie.

davidylan:

The fact that i have had answers to your other drivel on previous threads is sufficient indication that i have an answer. I will however not give you the benefit of legitimising yet another lie.

What lie? Show me what I have lied about?

huxley:

What lie? Show me what I have lied about?

Quote from: huxley on Today at 10:51:48 PM

In this and in many other passages in the bible, god promises benefits to be experienced here on earth if only one were to love god. Such benefits as excellent health, protection of calamities, accidents, disasters, financial success, etc, etc. In fact, there is a new movement within the Christian body - the prosperity movement - that emphasises the earthly benefits of believing in god.

The very begining of confusion . . . read Ps 91 PROPERLY, it is a prayer of David not God making specific promises.

davidylan:

Quote from: huxley on Today at 10:51:48 PM
The very begining of confusion . . . read Ps 91 PROPERLY, it is a prayer of David not God making specific promises.

Let me give you another translation of Psalm 91. This is the New Century Version.

Psalm 91: 1 "Those who go to God Most High for safety will be protected by the Almighty. 2 I will say to the Lord, "You are my place of safety and protection. You are my God and I trust you". 3 God will save you from the hidden traps and from deadly diseases. . . . .

Are you saying that this only refers to David? Where does it say that this is protection only to David?

In this and in many other passages in the bible, god promises benefits to be experienced here on earth if only one were to love god. Such benefits as excellent health, protection of calamities, accidents, disasters, financial success, etc, etc. In fact, there is a new movement within the Christian body - the prosperity movement - that emphasises the earthly benefits of believing in god.

I even went as far as saying that this is not the only passage where protection is promised.

My friend you have absolutely no case.

huxley:

But what does real life experience out there tell us about the comparisons of those who believe and non-believers?

1. Do believers enjoy better health?
2. Do they have better financial positions?
Do they suffer fewer mishaps like accidents?
Are they protected from natural disasters?
Do they have better and happier marriages?
Do they tend to better citizens and commit fewer crimes/offenses?

These are very interesting questions to which Christians have no answers.


1. No. As a matter of fact, believers are also prone to the same illnesses as non-believers, they suffer the same illnesses as non-believers and even tend to have a higher death rate than non-believers because they are so busy waiting on the "balm of gilead" and "Jehovah Rapha" to heal their diseases and afflictions that an ordinary malaria parasite becomes a deadly disease.

2. As a matter of fact, NO. The richest men on earth are not christians/believers, Neither do they tend to have any religious affliations. Christianity has actually made being rich a sin, according to the books of  _{(1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. & Matthew 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.)} Instead of investing their earnings, they are too busy bribing God _{(who supposedly gave them the money from his storehouse in heaven)} with their offerings and tithes that they have nothing to invest in the long run.

3. Yet again, NO. Christians do also suffer the same misharps as Non-christians/non-beleivers do. Unfortunately, Misharps like road accidents, airplane crashes, boat accidents, domestic accidents, e.t.c, do not have any bias for any religon, group, race or status. The same way believer do die in accidents so also do non-believers and the same lucky near death experiences _{(miraculous deliverance/ divine intervention)} that believers have so also do non-believers. Infact there was an accident where the only survivor was a drunk man who was passed out in the back fo the bus both, believers and non-believers all died except the drunk.   .

4. NO, NO, NO & NO. Take the tsunami's in indonesia, it did not pick the believers and leave the non-believers. OR Hurricane Katrina that wiped out almost the whole city taking with it believers, muslims and everything in its path. or the 9/11 world trade centre attack, everything of any religion, race, tribe, skin color, whatever was not spared. So yet again, christianity really does not have an insurance cover against natural disasters.

5. NOPE!! They actually don't. most christian marriages are born out of deciet _{(the lord said you'll be my wife)} and they really are never able to walk out of their mistakes/misery because the bible does not advocate divorce. Misogyny is also one of the strong points of christianity and women really are not allowed to fight against it because they are supposed to be submissive and quiet.

6. Christians are not better citizens. Infact they tend to be the most prejudiced and narrow-minded people in the society. example; a boy with an earring is a bad boy, a girl with trousers and heavy make-up is Jezebel, anybody who attends Christ Embassy isnt really born again, e.t.c. Non-believers should either repent or go to the guillotine.

huxley:

I am particularly interested in view of reports about some accidental deaths recently involving men-of-gods;

There is a report of a Pastor who drown in a river while trying to perform baptism.
There is also reports of a pastor electrocuted in a pool while performing baptism.
The dead of about 17 christians gather together in a house to exorcise demons.
The ghastly dead of the 50s evangelist William Branham http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_M._Branham.

This is the most shocking of all of them.  .   .   .   .      

_{Pastor Bimbo Odukoya (God bless her soul), I had a major crush on her. Damn!! That woman was sexy hot!!}

But a plane crash?? I mean thats just a cruel way to die, especially for a man _(woman) of God.

It just goes to show you that there is no protection whatsoever in any religion. You are just a vunerable as the next man out there.

huxley:

[b]So are Christian experiencing exactly the same fate as their non-believing counterparts.[/b] Or are all the rewards saved up in heaven?

DUH!!


And the most annoying part is that they are well aware of this fact, but they always fall back on the time tested excuses like;

"Gods time is the best"
"God knows best"
"Its the will of God"
"Who can question God"
"Man proposes, God disposes"
e.t.c.


Speak of suckers.

huxley:


Let me give you another translation of Psalm 91. This is the New Century Version.

Psalm 91: 1 "Those who go to God Most High for safety will be protected by the Almighty. 2 I will say to the Lord, "You are my place of safety and protection. You are my God and I trust you". 3 God will save you from the hidden traps and from deadly diseases. . . . .

Are you saying that this only refers to David? Where does it say that this is protection only to David?

you're no more intelligent than the hubris you put here. If i say a prayer does it mean it is meant for just me alone? Can i not make a general prayer of blessing to my brother or sister or family?

huxley:

I even went as far as saying that this is not the only passage where protection is promised.

My friend you have absolutely no case.

Provide those passages and lets remove the scales from your eyes.

Okija_juju:

DUH!!


And the most annoying part is that they are well aware of this fact, but they always fall back on the time tested excuses like;

"Gods time is the best"
"God knows best"
"Its the will of God"
"Who can question God"
"Man proposes, God disposes"
e.t.c.


Speak of suckers.

Only lazy christians spend their time with such nonsense. God did not promise to make a christian rich, he didnt say your horse will not fall into the ditch and you will break your leg, He said nothing about you being spared from a plane crash, He didnt promise healing 24/7, He didnt promise you would pass all your exams even if you refuse to read . . .

One thing He promised and HE WILL FULFILL - eternal life in Christ Jesus.

@ David

Are you trying to tell me that there is no blessing at all for believers except heaven??

Malachi 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Is this not a promise of blessing to all faithful tithers??
So why are there so many poor people in church?

How do you get love from God when your God is your conscience?

Mark 16:

16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

Luke 10:

17And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
18And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
19Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
20Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

1 Peter 5:
7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.



I remember singing this song when I was a Christian, which is based on 1 Peter 5: 7.


1. Be not dismayed whate’er betide,
God will take care of you;
Beneath His wings of love abide,
God will take care of you.
* Refrain:
God will take care of you,
Through every day, o’er all the way;
He will take care of you,
God will take care of you.
2. Through days of toil when heart doth fail,
God will take care of you;
When dangers fierce your path assail,
God will take care of you.
3. All you may need He will provide,
God will take care of you;
Nothing you ask will be denied,
God will take care of you.
4. No matter what may be the test,
God will take care of you;
Lean, weary one, upon His breast,
God will take care of you.

Okija_juju:

Malachi 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Is this not a promise of blessing to all faithful tithers??
So why are there so many poor people in church?

Did the "blessing" in Mal 3:10 say anything about money?

Okija_juju:

@ David

Are you trying to tell me that there is no blessing at all for believers except heaven??

there are blessings of course but the notion that those blessings must by force be in monetary terms is bogus.

davidylan:

there are blessings of course but the notion that those blessings must by force be in monetary terms is bogus.

did the poster talk about money? he gave a litany of things and he did' nt only underscore the importance of money.

Okija_juju:

Malachi 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

what is the bible saying here? what blessings? is it children? marital happiness? jobs, good health? every body has those things both bible believes and non believers alike so what blessing is the bible referring to here. abi na heavenly blessings after of course believers must have died.

davidylan:

there are blessings of course but the notion that those blessings must by force be in monetary terms is bogus.

David please let's stay on point.

What happened to the rest of the blessings?? The windows of heaven, the angel lifting you so you wont dash your feet, with long life will I keep you, bringing you to an expected end??

We are only trying to establish the fact that believers actually dont have any earthly advandtages over non-believers. Infact they are more or less at a disadvantage.

Okija_juju:

David please let's stay on point.

What happened to the rest of the blessings?? The windows of heaven, the angel lifting you so you wont dash your feet, with long life will I keep you, bringing you to an expected end??

We are only trying to establish the fact that believers actually don't have any earthly advandtages over non-believers. Infact they are more or less at a disadvantage.

what are those blessings to you?

God didn't promise days without pain,laughter without sorrow or sun without rain.
But God did promise; strength for the day,comfort for the tears and a light for the way.
And for all who believe in His kingdom above, He answers their faith with everlasting love.

The greatest benefit of being a true Christian is your salvation and the fact that you'll escape the righteous judgment of God. In other words, you get to go to heaven and enjoy eternal bliss.

davidylan:

you're no more intelligent than the hubris you put here. If i say a prayer does it mean it is meant for just me alone? Can i not make a general prayer of blessing to my brother or sister or family?

Provide those passages and lets remove the scales from your eyes.

What do you mean scales? They are not scales, they are are massive concrete blocks.

1 Peter 5:
7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

Earthly Benefits

ok,

Eternal life.

which aint exactly earthly

we just have this ASSURANCE

Gamine:

Earthly Benefits

ok,

Eternal life.

which aint exactly earthly

we just have this ASSURANCE

Sweets, you have no assurance, just word of mouth _{(or should I say book.)}

Eternal life you say??
We havent even finished living the life we have now and you are concerned about the afterlife of which you have no evidence of its existence.

Face it, there are no seen benefits, just promises of uncertainty. Now that sound like a sham.

Mr Guy.

You will never know, i know people who were once like you.

So when you die what will happen?

Atlist, if i die and find out there is Heaven and eternal life, i win

if i die and find out there is no heaven, i win

i would have lost NOTHING.

You on the other hand, would have lost EVERYTHING.

Gamine:

Mr Guy.

You will never know, i know people who were once like you.

So when you die what will happen?

Atlist, if i die and find out there is Heaven and eternal life, i win

if i die and find out there is no heaven, i win

i would have lost NOTHING.

You on the other hand, would have lost EVERYTHING.

ah, so you definitely know you will end up in heaven, if there is a heaven?

I can only Boast in Christ

on my own i fall short All have sinned. . . .

With Jesus, im assured

Why dont you drop ur inhibitions

come as a child to the feet of The Father

Guys, we are all loved by God.  Otherwise no one would exist.  Even the person sick and suffering is loved by God as the person in health and the rich man and the poor man.  When did you hear that when the rain fell it fell on the christian's farm but did not fall on the atheist's farm.  Or when there was an epidemic it killed all the atheists but left the christians alone.

There will always be troubles in this world, downturns and reversals etc.  Nobody is exempt so you'd better disillusion yourself from that.  Life is a cyclical phenomenon so every ascent is followed by a descent, sunrise by sunset, growth by decay, generation by corruption and all opposites are one.  I will not claim that I will never enter that dark valley of the shadows of death, but what I do claim is that I will harbour no fear though I find myself in such a valley because I trust that there is a plan, a guidance and an appropriation all my own.  My intent is not to cheat death or suffering but rather to be Me in all my appointed glory as created and intended by my Eleda.  I believe that there is a peace and a glory to be attained from being True, True to my portion.  And if that portion involves my eventual demise then it will be a glorious demise and I embrace it, besides I know that I cannot achieve any fulfillment outside of doing that which I have been created to do.

Interesting discourse as usual. I've got to ask the question though that what possible good can come from a child of God dying mangled in a car accident, plane crash, during child birth or being left bloated and pecked by vultures after a tsunami. Sorry for being so graphic, but how can any of this happenings - which may occur to a godly or spiritual person - be part of God's grand plan? If we accept the obvious that this catastrophes may happen to anyone Godly or not that's understandable. But part of God's divine plan!? Come off it.

Tasma:

Interesting discourse as usual. I've got to ask the question though that what possible good can come from a child of God dying mangled in a car accident, plane crash, during child birth or being left bloated and pecked by vultures after a tsunami. Sorry for being so graphic, but how can any of this happenings - which may occur to a godly or spiritual person - be part of God's grand plan? If we accept the obvious that this catastrophes may happen to anyone Godly or not that's understandable. But part of God's divine plan!? Come off it.

Just what qualities or attributes would you expect of God's plan?