Only shallow thinkers like dayokanu would put the lack of trophies down to youth - neglecting to remember the phasing out of the invincibles side, a change of stadium and financial constraints during the stadium construction that caused some unexpected changes coupled with the emergence of Abramovich's money fuelled Chelsea.

There are dynamics in those years that Arsenal was not well suited to adjust to properly, but anyone who did not see a difference last season (despite all the naysayers) would be fooling himself. Is the job done? NO, but it is a lot closer than you think and I expect to see results next season. I know AW will demand nothing less from his charges.

What had Pires 'delivered' before he came to Arsenal (apart from a pass in the Euro final )? What had Overmars 'delivered' before he came? Ljunberg?

What about Hleb? Since he is now the deliverer - what did he deliver while at Arse or before

Arsenal is doomed with AW as the coach? Do you think Arsenal would be close to where it is now were AW not the coach? Do you know the behind the scenes constraints that may be responsible for the apparent parsimonious transfer spending?

To you Hleb may have been one of the top three but the fans spoke and gave it to Cesc, Ade and Sagna so let those who follow the club speak.

People come here and spill bunkum like AW doesn't know what improvements are needed, well I'd rely on him rather than you folk any day.

For all those thinking they have Arsene figured out, just you wait. . .I repeat on 31st August, let us re-enact this discussion and see where things stand then.

Suddenly when their is a problem, we do look for whm to blame and quickly arrive at a point.

Wenger is thesame manager that took this team to win doubles, went unbeaten and became the most successful Arsenal manager.

Most of us don't know things that happen behind the scenes, meaning there some actions that depended on other influences.

I have said and i will say it again that Arsenal was very unlucky not have won the league last season and that's the truth.

and now officially welcoming Samir Nasri, i believe this boy will do well, he has made the right choice

debosky:

What about Hleb? Since he is now the deliverer - what did he deliver while at Arse or before

Arsenal is doomed with AW as the coach? Do you think Arsenal would be close to where it is now were AW not the coach? Do you know the behind the scenes constraints that may be responsible for the apparent parsimonious transfer spending?

To you Hleb may have been one of the top three but the fans spoke and gave it to Cesc, Ade and Sagna so let those who follow the club speak.

People come here and spill bunkum like AW doesn't know what improvements are needed, well I'd rely on him rather than you folk any day.

For all those thinking they have Arsene figured out, just you waitI repeat on 31st August, let us re-enact this discussion and see where things stand then.

U do talk like an onanist sometimes!!!!
Must u suck up to Wenger's foolishness to prove club patriotism.
At the end of the day, Arsenal is not Wenger. . . . .Think about what is good for Arsenal not support Wenger's idiocy blindly.

A club like Arsenal(after going 3 seasons without a title) shouldn't be thinking of selling good players. . . They should be adding more.
If there's no money in their coffers. . . They should get some sorta loan and fill up the blanks.
Arsenal's board of directors must be stupid to use money generated for player transfers to pay their debts.

U guys make 3 million pounds(excluding restaurant/matchday programmes) every single matchday. . . . Total was about 90 million last season.
Arsenal sells shirts. . . charges the highest head per seat in the world and yet they use the excuse of debt repayment to sell good players.
It's pathetic and sheer mismanagement.

Vela, Ramsay, Nasri, Diaby VERSUS Ballack, Deco, Mikel OR Scholes, Carrick, Anderson and Hargreaves.
Do u still wonder why u guys cannot win any club competition??
Take off your red/white tinted specs for once and smell the fucking coffee.

I guess in your midfield comparison Cesc and Gilberto play for Arsenal ladies right?

What is good for Arsenal you say? I am DEAD SURE that IF lack of Cash is the problem, the that problem lies squarely with the board and NOT Arsene!! Is that too difficult for you to comprehend? If Arsene is doing the best he can with present resources, then it is the board at fault. or did Arsene appoint the board members too?

One thing I'll say is that the finances at Arsenal are too opaque for me - no one really knows what the financial situation is, we keep hearing all this speculation back and forth. We need to determine the true state of things.

debosky:

I guess in your midfield comparison Cesc and Gilberto play for Arsenal ladies right?

What is good for Arsenal you say? I am DEAD SURE that IF lack of Cash is the problem, the that problem lies squarely with the board and NOT Arsene!! Is that too difficult for you to comprehend? If Arsene is doing the best he can with present resources, then it is the board at fault. or did Arsene appoint the board members too?

One thing I'll say is that the finances at Arsenal are too opaque for me - no one really knows what the financial situation is, we keep hearing all this speculation back and forth. We need to determine the true state of things.

Cesc and Gilberto ma ass. . . . .
Like Cesc and Gilberto weren't part of the fruitless tree of the last 3 seasons.
I just don't see this current bunch of players making any genuine challenge to win any title next season.
The team lacks depth, experience and technical nous. . . . . . . I would be worried if i support Arsenal.
Y'all poofs must be used to barren season now.

Lack of cash cannot be the problem. . . . . I have been to the Emirates and i know it's serious business there every matchday.
Deloitte predicted an operating profit of 104 million pounds over the next 5 years . . . 2nd highest in the whole of Europe.
Add that to the new TV deal which pays 29 million in the last season then u must wonder why things are so bad at the Emirates.

Not only Nairalanders but experts said before the beginning of last season that Arsenal were going to miss out a UCL place.

They said arsenal cannot survive, but until 3-games to go last season Arsenal was a serious contender of the tittle.

So what do we expect this season?

Of course I wonder why things appear financially tight, but I am sure that its not emanating from AW - he may simply be bearing the brunt from whatever is happening in the back office

One more thing - NO BANK would finance a loan based on returns from player transfers, so get that idiotic idea planted by the press out of your noggin.

Secondly, when are you going to make up your mind? One second Arsenal is in worse a financial situation than MU, the next we are supposedly rolling in cash

debosky:

Of course I wonder why things appear financially tight, but I am sure that its not emanating from AW - he may simply be bearing the brunt from whatever is happening in the back office

One more thing - NO BANK would finance a loan based on returns from player transfers, so get that idiotic idea planted by the press out of your noggin.

Secondly, when are you going to make up your mind? One second Arsenal is in worse a financial situation than MU, the next we are supposedly rolling in cash

Arsenal is in a worse financial situation than MU but it's not so bad to the point of selling 3 first team players. . . .

United have serious debt but it's very manageable.
Man United are ranked above the benchmark "comfort level" for effective cost management, which is calculated by comparing wages to turnover ratio - the key performance indicator of a club's welfare. We are second only to Tottenham in this regard.

Besides,United are predicted as having the highest operating profit over the next five years with an operating profit of £239.5 million.
Man Utd are also second in the list of stadium utilisation for the 2007/08 season with an average turnout of 99.4 per cent of the 75,691 capacity.
United earn more from two matches at Old Trafford than Wigan Athletic reap from an entire season of home games.

Listen - Flamini WAS NOT SOLD

Hleb is leaving not because of financial constraints, but from three main reasons -

1. he was kicked to death last season, and seeing Dudu's injury, rumor has it that he would rather play in a less physical league.

2. He's 27 and will be 29 by the time his deal expires, and knowing AW, he wont get more than a 2 year deal at the most, so he decided to go elsewhere

3. He was not too pleased with the style of play

No one is being sold because the club is broke, the only people leaving are players dissatisfied for whatever reason.

debosky:

Listen - Flamini WAS NOT SOLD

Hleb is leaving not because of financial constraints, but from three main reasons -

1. he was kicked to death last season, and seeing Dudu's injury, rumor has it that he would rather play in a less physical league.

2. He's 27 and will be 29 by the time his deal expires, and knowing AW, he wont get more than a 2 year deal at the most, so he decided to go elsewhere

3. He was not too pleased with the style of play

No one is being sold because the club is broke, the only people leaving are players dissatisfied for whatever reason.

Are u shitting me??


These are the words of your GAFFER:
'The strategy of the club is to sell every year and to buy less expensive players,'

'We manage at Arsenal to maintain all our football ambitions - national and European - while having to free up - for 17 more years - an annual surplus of £24million to pay for our stadium.

'The club's strategy is to favour the policy of youngsters ahead of stars and to count on the collective quality of our game.

Hannibal:

These are the words of your GAFFER:
'The strategy of the club is to sell every year and to buy less expensive players,'

'We manage at Arsenal to maintain all our football ambitions - national and European - while having to free up - for 17 more years - an annual surplus of £24million to pay for our stadium.

'The club's strategy is to favour the policy of youngsters ahead of stars and to count on the collective quality of our game.

I do not believe the first line - it is not true in my estimation, just a fabrication of the press

The second bolded part is true, as reflected in his transfer dealings all the way back since he started at Arsenal - he may buy a few older players here and there, but emphasis has ALWAYS been on youth.

The middle portion of that story is untrue, lets read from a genuine news report not some rag like NOTW

The club borrowed £260m for the move at a fixed rate of 5.3%, which looks extremely good in the current financial climate, and their annual repayments of £13.78m are manageable.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/07/11/wengers_wantaway_generation_pa.html

So there's no 24 million to be repaid every year.

It is very clear Arsene does not want Ade to leave, if he did he could've been sold ages ago - the only thing is that if someone offers CRAZY money for a player not worth that amount, AW will likely sell if he can get a cheaper replacement.

The issue here really is whether AW is losing hold of players he wants to keep on a regular basis, as opposed to the rare cases of Anelka and Cole before, or is this simply a quirk or a group of players with their own heart desires set from the word go?

Hannibal:

Are u shitting me??


These are the words of your GAFFER:
'The strategy of the club is to sell every year and to buy less expensive players,'

'We manage at Arsenal to maintain all our football ambitions - national and European - while having to free up - for 17 more years - an annual surplus of £24million to pay for our stadium.

'The club's strategy is to favour the policy of youngsters ahead of stars and to count on the collective quality of our game.

can you provide the source of this statement and dont give us a goal.com or any of those rubbish website links. if it is not on www.arsenal.com or it was not in an interview aired on tv and you actually heard wenger said that not them say, then it is probably more cheap publicity.www.goal.com and those other sites are just losers.

i have a feeling that diaby will step up next season. at least now he can play in the central position vacated by flamini instead of the wings he has been used for. afterall, i never expected flamini to play so good last season and i never expected adebayor to score 30 goals. who knows eboue might be the new revelation next season. ;Dmy problem is with the defence, there is absolutely ZERO depth in the defence after gallas,clichy,sagna and toure. there is nobody else. so when gallas starts crying,toure is fatigued, sagna is injured and we have to face a club like real madrid inn the champions league semi final, what do we do? provide senderros, hoyte and song

I do not believe the first line - it is not true in my estimation, just a fabrication of the press

The second bolded part is true, as reflected in his transfer dealings all the way back since he started at Arsenal - he may buy a few older players here and there, but emphasis has ALWAYS been on youth.

The middle portion of that story is untrue, lets read from a genuine news report not some rag like NOTW

Are u aware NOTW is part of The Sun newspapers. . . . . If u stay in UK, u would know they are one of the most credible sports newspapers around.

The link u posted about 13 million pounds repayment is FALSE. Whats Guardian compared to Deloitte?? Are u on pills??
Arsenal's repayment stands at 20 million pounds per annum according to Deloitte. . . . .
Your board is fraudulent and they tend to report trumpery for fans like u to swallow line, hook and sinker.

"We manage at Arsenal to maintain all our football ambitions - national and European - while having to free up - for 17 more years - an annual surplus of £24million to pay for our stadium.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/07072008/58/premier-league-wenger-arsenal-selling-club.html

'We manage at Arsenal to maintain all our football ambitions - national and European - while having to free up - for 17 more years - an annual surplus of £24million to pay for our stadium.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=553845&sec=england&cc=5739

okay. so who conducted the interview? there are over 1000 weblinks on this story but who conducted the actual interview where and when? what else did they discuss? did wenger just say his that and left?I cannot take that statement seriously because these same websites have published stuff about arsenal and the ronaldo saga that turned out to be false. if this selling club saga was on www.arsenal.com or it was on a press conference aired on television, then that will be a different case.

it is is just like when there was news of adebayor saying he will play like henry only wehn he is paid like henry. It is the internet. all that is required is for one fake guy to start it up and the whole story picks up.

i hope you all remember the rodrigo palacio rumour last summer after henry left?it was all over the internet, even the few credible ones.

if it not on www.arsenal.com and it is not on tv, then it is probably bullocks.

IN ARSENE WE TRUST

Only shallow thinkers like dayokanu would put the lack of trophies down to youth - neglecting to remember the phasing out of the invincibles side, a change of stadium and financial constraints during the stadium construction that caused some unexpected changes coupled with the emergence of Abramovich's money fuelled Chelsea.

How would one know you are an Arsenal fan if you dont give lame excuses like those above? New stadium? Bayern Built a new stadium and won the league, Ajax built a new stadium and still won Dutch league, The last season before you left Highbury what did you win?

I am sure the next thing to blame for Arsenal fans should be London traffic and Niger Delta Militants. Hopeless bunchs!!!

Gradually Arsenal is phasing out the Big players who can and have delivered ( Pires, Vieira, Overmars, Henry, Bergkamp) to be replaced by Vela, Bendtner, Walcott, Nasri, Ramsey. Since this youth experiments started what have Arsenal won? Nothing!!!

There are dynamics in those years that Arsenal was not well suited to adjust to properly, but anyone who did not see a difference last season (despite all the naysayers) would be fooling himself. Is the job done? NO, but it is a lot closer than you think and I expect to see results next season. I know AW will demand nothing less from his charges.

What changes are you talking about being on top of the league for most of the campaign is the change you are talking about? Na wa o How many weeks did Man Utd stay on top.

Changes?? Maybe losing 4-0 to Man Utd its been like 7 yrs you lost by that Margin

What had Pires 'delivered' before he came to Arsenal (apart from a pass in the Euro final Grin)? What had Overmars 'delivered' before he came? Ljunberg?

What about Hleb? Since he is now the deliverer - what did he deliver while at Arse or before Huh

Pires has a world cup and Euro cup medal before Arsenal. Marc Overmars had a UCL medal before joining These players have played at the very big stage like asking what has Ballack won ? Meaning he is not a top player?

Arsenal is doomed with AW as the coach? Do you think Arsenal would be close to where it is now were AW not the coach? Do you know the behind the scenes constraints that may be responsible for the apparent parsimonious transfer spending?

Before Wenger Arsenal won their last European trophy 10 years with Wenger No continental trophy is in the Horizon In fact Wenger has never won any continental trophy of any colour in his whole career Name another top European coach who has never won an European trophy before. He is just like David Moyes and Allardyce

No one is contesting that Ballack is a big player, my response was to counter the assertion by Kitaun about what the new purchases had 'delivered', simple. No one can say Nasri is not a top player because he hasn't 'delivered'.

The changes I am talking about is finishing 5 points off the top compared to 16 or more points in previous seasons, only a dimwit would fail to notice that improvement. A league championship is about improving over the course of the season, overall we improved markedly but just fell short.

Getting beaten by a wide scoreline matters little in the end - MU also failed to win the FA cup so what good did the 4-0 win do for their overall season?

He has won league and cup doubles, won the league unbeaten - his name is etched into folklore already, whether dayokanu and his madness agrees. Arsene was in the CL finals 2 seasons ago, if its not on the 'horizon' after appearing in the finals, when will it be?

dayokanu:



Before Wenger Arsenal won their last European trophy 10 years with Wenger No continental trophy is in the Horizon In fact Wenger has never won any continental trophy of any colour in his whole career Name another top European coach who has never won an European trophy before. He is just like David Moyes and Allardyce

[quote][/quote]
Tread softly my dear friend. Tread softly. I know you are mad with wenger. I am too. we all are but ARSENE KNOWS.

he has won four  FA cups out of a a total ten arsenal has ever won. he has won the league three times out of a total 13 arsenal has won. we were unfortunate to loose to galatasary in the uefa cup final and barcelona in the champions league final. Wenger brought entertaining football to the arsenal team. Even though there has been a droguht of trophies, i enjoy watching the team play and i will continue to support arsenal whatever be the case.

SOmetimes, i feel some nairalanders will make better managers or are actually better than arsene wenger. Last season was a major improvement like debosky said considering we lost to boro away and i think at home too, drew with wigan, drew with birghminham, drew with aston villa and many more. Coupled with injuries to rosicky,RVP and eduardo. It was a major improvement.

Wenger will get it right,sooner or later. I am praying sooner

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article2437525.ece

Arsene Wenger. Ranked above managers who have won more and with very good reason. A champion of style and sporting beauty and, most remarkably, a football man you can take at his word. There is not a single club that has not coveted him in the last ten years.

@ Debosky,

Are u high on cheap weed?

Ballack is not a big player by any means.
What has he done since he joined Chelsea?? ZILCH.

The same big player participated in 4 finals this season and LOST all.
Carling Cup, Premiership(on the last day), Champions League in Euro 2008. . . .
Let it be known this is the 2nd time the poof would suffer Quadruple Horror(Losing 4 titles in a single season)

Ballack me bloody foot. . . . . . . Patrick Vieira is a much more accomplished player!!!
Name one big player who has failed to win Euros and UCL??

Hannibal:

@ Debosky,

Are u high on cheap weed?

Ballack is not a big player by any means.
What has he done since he joined Chelsea?? ZILCH.

The same big player participated in 4 finals this season and LOST all.
Carling Cup, Premiership(on the last day), Champions League in Euro 2008. . . .
Let it be known this is the 2nd time the poof would suffer Quadruple Horror(Losing 4 titles in a single season)

Ballack me bloody foot. . . . . . . Patrick Vieira is a much more accomplished player!!!
Name one big player who has failed to win Euros and UCL??

Ronaldo de Lima of Brazil has never won the UCL and he played for BARCELONA, REAL MADRID, INTER MILAN, PSV AND AC MILAN.
How do you resolve that!

Ballack is not a big player by any means.
What has he done since he joined Chelsea?? ZILCH.

The same big player participated in 4 finals this season and LOST all.
Carling Cup, Premiership(on the last day), Champions League in Euro 2008. . . .
Let it be known this is the 2nd time the poof would suffer Quadruple Horror(Losing 4 titles in a single season)

Ballack me bloody foot. . . . . . . Patrick Vieira is a much more accomplished player!!!
Name one big player who has failed to win Euros and UCL??

Jackal is known to be deranged and rabid as well,

Former players of the year like Pavel nedved, Roberto Baggio, Gheorge Hagi, Frank lampard, John Terry, Do you need more

van Nistelrooy, all play for top European clubs and countries

Hannibal:

Name one big player who has failed to win Euros and UCL??

George Weah, Eric Cantona, Rivaldo, Romario de Souza Faria. . .do you need more?

@Hannibal

Are you satisfied or we should keep it coming

All this debates just make me wish the season could start tomorrow .

ARSENS NEW INTEREST . . . . . . interesting though



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2008/07/10/ufnfalcao110.xml


why do y'all think?

i beliv the trophyless seasons are really making reducing the expectations of arsenal fans
even if adebayor and flamini shined for one season, imagine how good they'll play this season, thats how u build trophy winnin teams, not sellin players cos of demands and buyin players that are likely to demand too at their own turn.
now even carling cup will be considered a success at this rate

A-40:

All this debates just make me wish the season could start tomorrow .

that will settle all d debates, lets debate a lil

Dis Amodu guy stubborn o. U no understand english abi wetin?, the thread is 4 Gunners ONLY. Go away and stop behavin like ur name.

Grizzly abi wetin u call ur name? Get away 4rm here! Go and start ur own Chelski's thread. and stop polluting this forum. u r jus a beg-friend. pls respect urself and MOVE!

we've been given permisn 4 nything nairaland

@Debosky,

I am even limiting it to Players of European origin cos non European can never win the Euro's.

@Hannibal,

Do you think this is some kind of cheap pub where you can just spew inanities? This is a public site and you would do yourself a lot of good to think before posting not those rabid ranting of yours.

Let me tell you, I would school your generation on European football. So do some learning before coming back here and don't come here telling us how Leeds United won the Champions league. Asswipe!!!