stimulus:

@babyosisi,

Lol. . . it's quite simple: they were burnt by the third Caliph Uthman!!

lol, how did he escape being beheaded or was is not desecration of the qur'an?

nossycheek:

lol, how did he escape being beheaded or was is not desecration of the qur'an?

Islamic Law does not consider that as "desecration" - so long as Uthman was a Caliph. The goat that ate the other verses from under Aisha's bed also escaped the punishment for "desecration" of the Qur'an! If the Imams mishandle the Qur'an, nobody is to raise dust!

But if a non-Muslim even "touches" the Qur'an, wahala go start!!

All of you have be to very carefull and stop abusing words againt one another and Almight God remember we can not defend God.If you want to enlighting us, do which I think that is fine and good but not exchanging words like kids. Please don't turn this Nairaland to where people will be mocking religions. Religions are very sensitive things in the world.
A word is enough for the wise.

Thanks

Realpoint:

All of you have be to very carefull and stop abusing words againt one another and Almight God remember we can not defend God.If you want to enlighting us, do which I think that is fine and good but not exchanging words like kids. Please don't turn this Nairaland to where people will be mocking religions. Religions are very sensitive things in the world.
A word is enough for the wise.

Thanks

What I really can't understand with you guys is that such "politically correct" appeals ONLY pop up when Christians provide answers to the Muslim tantrums. What makes it politically acceptable for Muslims to mock Christianity, but at the same time a disturbing development for Christians to face up to such mockery?

We have appealed several times for sensible dialogue. What have we got in return?

That aside, read the first paragraph of my first post on this thread - it is only in answer to the challenges offered by Muslim posters. They may not like what they read; but I can be grateful for one thing: the real mindset of the Muslim players have been exposed - so much so that they stop at nothing to refer to their own Muslim authors as liars!! I've only summarized my response to babs787; but the following post is another one of my responses just to point out how he plays his games.

@babs787,

babs787:

#5. Where are the 'Sacred Books' and Books of Deeds? || Sura 54:43 & 52
'Are your Unbelievers, (O Quraish), better than they? Or have ye
an immunity in the Sacred Books? - All that they do is noted in (their)
Books (of Deeds)'

Brother, calm down. The above verses quoted talk about the Quraish people when they disbelieved in the revelations of Allah.

So, where are the revelations (plural - revelationS) of 'Allah'??

babs787:

Let me post them here for you to read

Quran 54v 40: and indeed we have made the Quran easy to understand and remember, then is there any that will remember (or receive admonition)?

V 41: And indeed, warnings came to the people of pharaoh through Moses and Aaron.

V 42: they belied all our signs so we seized them with a seizure of the All-Mighty, All-Capable.

V 43: Are your disbelievers (O QURAISH), better than these [nations of Noah, Lot, Salih and the people of Pharoah who were destroyed?] or have you an immunity (against our torment) in the divine scriptures?

Let me re-quote the last part of that V. 43 again as you offered, and compare with other English translations:

". . . or have you an immunity ([b]against our torment) in the divine scriptures?" (from Hilali-Khan tr.)

YusufAli - ". . .Or have ye an immunity in the Sacred Books?"

Pickthal - ". . .or have ye some immunity in the scriptures?"

Shakir - "or is there an exemption for you in the scriptures?"

The question yet is: where are the "sacred books" and "scriptures"?? Notice that they are in the plural (book[b]s[/b], scripture[b]s[/b]); so you cannot come back claiming yet again that it was pertaining to the Qur'an, since it has never been known as "books". You have simply made a child out of yourself; and playing the name-calling game is not helping your deception.

babs787:

Hope you understood, it is self explanatory?

Quran 54 v 52: And everything they have done is noted in their records of deeds.

Everybody is having his/her records of actions/deeds with God which will be opened to him/her on that day. So you can see that your authors are liars.

What is my worry that you call your own Muslim translators liars?? You're only attacking your camp - as you usually do, because you're so short-sighted as not to see issues in front of your eyes. Keep calling them liars: it is allowed in Islam for Muslims to deride and castigate other Muslims, abi?? Here is a list of those you're calling liars:

Pickthall - "And every thing they did is in the scriptures"

YusufAli - "All that they do is noted in (their) Books (of Deeds)

Shakir - "And everything they have done is in the writings.

SherAli - "And everything they have done is recorded in the Books.

These Muslims in their translations did not tell us that "everyone is having his/her records of actions/deeds"; rather, they translate that verse to convey the understanding that what was meant there are "the scriptures" or "the writings" or "the Books". You can only call them liars because you don't like their translations; but by doing so, you reveal the hypocrite in you as a very queer Muslim who attacks other Muslims!!

babs787:

#6. Where are the mystic Books, babs787? || Sura 26:196
'Without doubt it is (announced) in the mystic Books of former peoples.'

I pity your deluded authors that lied in order to deceive you. This is what we have brother.

Quran 26 v 196: And verily, it (the Quran and its revelation to prophet Muhammed (saw) is announced in the scriptures (i.e torah and the Gospel) of former people.

I hope your fellow Muslims can come here and see you for the real hypocrite that you are!! Not satisfied with misquoting your own Qur'an, you're so vexed about the exposure of your deception that you continue to refer to Muslim authors as "deluded authors that lied!" It is not strange - I know of many Muslim who will castigate their own fellow Muslims and then wear a hypocritical smile later on to say, "Salaam brother!"

Once again, here is what the Muslim authors said in their translations:

Pickthall - "And lo! it is in the Scriptures of the men of old."

Yusuf Ali - "Without doubt it is (announced) in the mystic Books of former peoples."

Shakir - "And most surely the same is in the scriptures of the ancients."

Sher Ali - "And it is surely mentioned in the scriptures of the former peoples."

Now you can continue calling your Muslim translators and fellow brethren "deluded authors that lied"; and I'm sure that Yusuf Ali would like to read your denunciation!!

babs787:

Hope you understood? Former people are the people given the scriptures to. I.e people of Moses with the Torah and that of Jesus with the Gospel.

The question is: WHERE ARE THOSE SCRIPTURES (or "mystic Books"?? After telling us what they mean, could you please grow up and answer the question? Trying to fill this thread with your vexed cavil and unbridled denunciation of Muslims as "deluded authors that lied", is not going to help you escape from the question.

Since Muslims often proclaim that the Torah, Injil and Psalms mentioned in the Qur'an are LOST and cannot be found, what then is Muhammad doing in the OT Torah and the NT Gospel of the Bible that you often desperately quote to "prove" his prophethood? Your game is laughable since your hypocrisy now admits that those Scriptures are referring to "people of Moses" and Jesus. If your Qur'anic Torah and Injil are lost, then Muhammad is not in the Bible! Period. Come back yet again and expose your hypocrisy and doublespeak.

babs787:

#7. Where are the "previous books"? || Sura 20:133
'And they say: Why does he not bring to us a sign from his Lord? Has not
there come to them a clear evidence of what is in the previous books?'

Quran 20 v 133: They say, ‘why does he not bring us a sign (proof) from his Lord’? has there not come to them the proof of that which is written in the former papers (scriptures) i.e the Torah and the Gospel about the coming of the prophet Muhammed (saw)?

Understood?

Olodo.   Since you now admit that the "previous books" are the same as "the Torah and the Gospel", my question remains the same: WHERE ARE THEY?? If they are LOST just as you have said, then Muhammad is not in the Bible!! Can we now move on and expose more of your antics?

babs787:

#8. What is the Book; and where is it today?? || Sura 3:48
'And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel'

Quran 3 v 48: and Allah will teach him (jesus) the Book (i.e Sunnah, the faultless speech of the prophets, wisdoms) and the Torah and the Gospel.

Understood?

I didn't ask you to translate the verse or quote Hilali-Khan's translation. Rather, after all your requoting the verse, can you please tell us WHERE "the Book, the Law and the Gospel" are to be found today?? Haba, alhaji babs, dribbling is all too common among Muslims, we already know. But take style answer my questions and forget the cowardise!!

Secondly, if you're holding onto Hilali-Khan's translation of Quran 3 v 48, then another one of your otiose propaganda has been exposed in that verse! I will compare what you quoted and what is actually in the translation:

yours:
and Allah will teach him (jesus) the Book
(i.e Sunnah, the faultless speech of the prophets,
wisdoms) and the Torah and the Gospel.

Hilali-Khan's:
And He (Allâh) will teach him ['Iesa (Jesus)] the Book
and Al-Hikmah (i.e. the Sunnah, the faultless speech of the Prophets, wisdom, etc.),
(and) the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel).
click here for online English translation of Hilali-Khan

The highlighted and underlined words indicate those you tampered with by removing them! So much for your honesty! You may not regard it as a big deal; but trying to correct my quote of YusufAli's translation by misquoting Hilali-Khan's is deception and cowardise. You're filling this thread with more deception and plagiarized material that you pretend are yours; and then you pretend you have exhibited scholarship. All your efforts at dribbling round the topic is doing just one thing: confirming that the Qur'an is an INCOMPLETE Book - by the very same rule you alleged against the Bible.

@babs787,

babs787:

#9. Where is the Mother of the book, babs787? || Sura 13:39
'Allah doth blot out or confirm what He pleaseth: with Him is the Mother of the Book.'

Quran 13 v 39: Allah blots out what He wills, and confirms n what He wills. And with Him is the Mother of the Book (Al-Lauh Al-Mahfiz).

Mother of the book used here is the Quran which is the last revelation.

I knew you would fall for this one!! If the "Mother of the Book" is with 'Allah', it only means it is not with Muslims today!! Unless you want to assert that your 'Allah' is living on earth somewhere! Did you miss my question: "[U]WHERE[/U] is the Mother of the book, babs787?" So, if you're telling me that the Mother of the Book is the Qur'an, then it is only stating that it is "with Allah"; and you have to explain which Qur'an is "with Muslims" today!

babs787:


#10. Where are "His Books", and why are they NOT in the Qur'an?
Sura 4:136 - 'O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His Messenger, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Messenger and the scripture which He sent to those before (him). Any who denieth Allah, His angels, His Books, His Messengers, and the Day of Judgment, hath gone far, far astray.'
(see also Sura 2:285)

Brother I have answered up. His books are the Torah, injil, and the Quran.

Thanks for the answer, but that makes them three Books altogether!! Since Muslims have the last of the three (the Qur'an), where are the other two - the Torah and the Injil?? If all three books are "His books" and two of them are "LOST" as you claimed, then certainly the Qur'an is INCOMPLETE book!!

babs787:

The stories of the prophets in the Quran tells that their books have been included. The Torah contains story of Moses and Israel and you have it in the Quran too. So hope you are ok with that?

It will only be sufficient for your to tell us WHERE in the Qur'an any Muslim can find the Torah/Taurât. You're only making unsubstantiated claims here in the hope that no one might find out the deception you're playing at all along. The Qur'an has 114 chapters (not "books"; which one of those chapters of the Qur'an is called the "Torah/Taurât"??

If only you would stop playing these silly games and be man enough to see where your deception has led you. The Torah and Injil are not found in the Qur'an, and reputable Muslim websites and scholars continue to make that claim. Even you have stated openly that they "cannot be found"!! And now again, embarrassed by your own quiddity, you're trying so desperately to claim the opposite - that they have been included"!!

You can't play games with me, babs787. You're the one often quoting: "Truth has come; falsehood is bound to perish!" Now your falsehood is already staring you in the face, and it will certainly perish!

stimulus:

You can't play games with me, babs787. You're the one often quoting: "Truth has come; falsehood is bound to perish!" Now your falsehood is already staring you in the face, and it will certainly perish!

You are a genius @ Stimulus!

@stimulus



You really didn't expect to wake up to find the propaganda in Islam exposed, did you? Relax, you really haven't said anything other than filling the pages with your usual roundabout denials. Anyone can do that in a few minutes. What I asked for, you failed to produce - and where does that leave your Qur'an?? Isn't it a shame that you claimed they were LOST, and then coming back to dribble around that claim with another lie that you didn't mean to say that? No worry, I already know that your type are strangers to truth and reason - so enjoy!!


stop deceiving yourself. Go to 'Is the bible complete" and refute the posts and stop wasting your time. Let me have your rebuttal to my posts.



Pained? Not a bit! From my office, I solved your antics and still got on with my job smoothly. You were hoping that would be my reaction. Sorry, your uranium nuke went back to your roof!!  When you were creating multiple threads, you didn't clean you jiga well enough to complain back then; so your hypocrisy is only being acentuated by you.


Complaining? Never, when the time comes, babs will resurrect some threads and we will continue. Please rebut my response to your lenghty posts.


Quote from: babs787 on May 09, 2007, 01:39 PM
TRUTH HAS COME FALSEHOOD IS BOUND TO PERISH.
Na so. That is why we continue to oblige you the falsehood in islam - and it is only a matter of time before your falsehood will perish. Sit tight and hold a towel.

Yes you are right especially the falsehood about the completeness of the bible.


@babs787,

When you argue issues, use your brains - it was not put there as a mass of pus!


Oh really, you imagine the pot calling kettle black, did you use your brain when you posted three lengthy rejoinders thinking that babs will never have time for your lies but you were shocked and babs went as far as revealing your falsehood more in the areas of giving quoting wrong verses from my book.




Sorry, but what is my worry that the lies are of the khalifites? Are they not in the Muslim camp? Oh, they are considered liars all of a sudden, after you spread your own gutter lies about Christianity, ba?

Muslim camp? You can see that you are confused yourself. Thats one thing about Islam, if any falshood wants to approach it, the muslim world is quickly alerted and necessary steps is taken. How many homes do you see the Quran and how many muslims are aware of him? I thought you are claiming that Jehovah witnesses are not part of you amd that they are not christians.




What gear? Where have I claimed to have been a Muslim? I relaxed, but since you're know for your hypocrisy and antics to continue your propaganda, I served you your own soup, nice and clean. Enjoy!!

Really, yes you revealed your falsehood again.



When you're done sobbing, please make more interesting post. You can accuse me of lying; but al-taqiyya is not my religion!! Do the simple sane thing any underaged school kid would do - check out the claims. You offered the fallacious argument that because of those books not found in the Bible, therefore your otiose inference was that the Bible was not complete. I only used the same silly argument in examining your Qur'an; and the result is not any different.

Honestly I keep saying it, we are now seeing the liars. Common, go there and rebut the links on papyril. You are laying emphasis on some missing books, didnt I give you missing verses from the bible too? Your lies have been exposed so no where to hide.




Oh, just relax. I serve your pies in piecemeal lest you ckoke on having too much to chew!!

I served you same too. You only need to read and refute.



Good! Hold on to that Arabian reconstructed tale; and as we proceed, you'll get the silly gist exposed about what Muhammad was dreaming up. The accusations that you guys have been throwing around will be scrutinized one by one.


You are still here defending the indefendable. It is very glaring with those links supplied that your bible is imcomplete. Do I need say more? Common be a man and stop deceiving yourself. Even a non muslim told your sister same in that thread to stop wasting her time cos babs supplied the facts needed.



I'm a normal thinking person who has refused to be mute against your illiterate propaganda. It is only when you read posts exposing your hypocrisy that you begin to ask if my BP was normal. So, where are the Gospel, Injil and Psalm (as if "Gospel" and "Injil" are different)?? Haba, babs787, why you no take style dust up on your shame? Please humour me the more - what exactly are written in the non-existent Gospel, Injil and Psalm of the Qur'an that you claimed were lost?? Are you quickly eating back your words as pilgrim.1 warned earlier?


Brother, it seems you are confused. I thought you have asked those questions in your three posts and I have responded, you only need to go and read again and get back at me. Are you still saying your bible is complete?



When something is LOST, it cannot be found!! Coming back to claim the direct opposite of what you earlier stated is cowardise and dishonest!! Abi your Eng-lish don change to Qura-lish??


I dont need to waste time with you, fact has been established you are just shouting unnecesaarily which is very normal when falsehood is being revealed. Go to the thread 'is bible complet' and read more for yourself.



Nope. You never meant that "books" is the same thing as "stories". When pilgrim.1 offered an explanation in stronger persuasion, you threw it out wholesale, but now you're crying wadada because it has come back to you! Meanwhile, the Qur'an never called them "stories" - it says that they are "BOOKS"!! Unless you're attempting to write your own version of the Qur'an, please stick to what Muhammad called them: "The Books of Abraham and Moses", (Sura 87:18-19); not "the stories of Abraham and Moses"

Okay professor, what do the Injil  and Gospel contain? What do the books of Moses and Jesus contain?  Thanks



Second, you never made the assumption that any of those books including the Torah, Gospel and Psalms were included in the Qur'an. Scroll back up and see what you said as I quoted; and if you're trying to play silly with this, then I will quote it directly for you once again:

I never did? We are now seeing who has been acting silly all these while. Read up again for understanding professor.



Quote from: babs787 on April 17, 2007, 11:06 AM
IS THE QURAN WRONG IN STATING THAT THE TORAH WAS LOST OR CORRUPTED?click here and read it <https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-46848.0.html>!

Quote from: babs787 on April 23, 2007, 10:48 AM
The Quran is the last book revealed to the seal of the prophets because the original message of both Torah and Gospel cannot be found.click here to read it <https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-46848.0.html>!

There they are! So, don't even try to cut corners with me, because I warned you in the first post of this thread that you will come back exposing your dishonesty, deception and hypocrisy!! I should have captioned this thread: "BABS787 EXPOSED!!" and make readers see the hypocrite that you are. You can't even stand up to your own words, and then you have the temerity to be calling Christians liars! I hope your brethren will see you exposed for the real person that you are!! Enjoy the exposure!!


Haba, nairalanders I tire for this liar o. I DIRECTED HIM TO LINKS CONTAINING THE MISSING BOOKS AND DIFFERENT BIBLES AND HE IS HERE ACUSSING ME OF LYING AGAIN WHEN TRUTH HAS BECOME GLARING.









Your ignorance or mine, just where are the books in the Qur'an, babs787?? I don't mind if they were arranged in any order by Ali, Zaid, or the third Caliph's committee; the question is, where are they in the Qur'an?  Quote from: babs787 on April 17, 2007, 11:06 AM  Quran 3 v 65: O people of the scripture! Why do you dispute about Abraham while the Torah and the Gospel were not revealed till after him? Have you then no sense? So the Quran contains everything you need to know about them and by saying that it has included their books because the Torah contains story of Jesus and we have his story in the Quran. the Injil contains that of Moses and we have his story in the Quran too. So that answers your question. I never realized you could be so badly hit!! To the extent that you're now confusing yourself and confiscating your IQ.

posting lenghty rejoinder yet making no sense. What are you trying to say up sir?




Take a look at that line again: "the Torah contains story of Jesus" - even the Qur'an does not teach that. Have you become another Khalifite overnight?

If the Quran does no teach Gospel, why does it contain JESUS' STORY, HIS DISCIPLES AND HIS PEOPLE?



The Qur'an never said that it included any of those books, and no muslim has ever taught that rubbish at all except the hypocrites! You're trying to buy a cheap escape route for your denials, but it won't work.


Am asking you again, what do the Gospel contains?





The Qur'an mentions those books as separate from anything revealed to Muhammad - and that fact alone stands clear as testimony that, in just the same way you have alleged against the Bible, so the Qur'an is by far more seriously lacking in integrity! It does not say "stories"; and I did not ask you for "stories". The Qur'an mentions them as "BOOKS" - and if you cannot produce those books, accept your hypocrisy has failed you badly!  


Now you claimed that the books are not included, please what does the gospel given to jesus contains? If the quran didnt contain those books, why are we having jesus story and that of Moses?



Playing Islamic games is what you do best! Why you dey lie like say na your second nature?? The authors you claimed lied to me are Muslim authors - because it is their books I quoted. If they lied, what's my problem with that?? Check and see that my quote was from Shakir's translation; and I'm sure he would not take kindly to your calling him a liar as an author!  Now, go over again in your own version - don't you see that you even tried to deceive yourself by misquoting and adjusting their translation? You quoted from the Hilali-Khan translation, and for all that you still had to omit some of the words in them. I'll help you see the difference:  quoted by babs787 Hilali-Khan translation  11nay (do not do like this); Nay, (do not do like this), indeed it (this Quran) indeed it (these Verses of this Qur'an) is an admonition are an admonition,  The highlighted words are those you deleted!! Thank you, sir!!  

Brother, why cant you reason for a minute and stop going round in circles. You accused me of omitting some words from the Quran, can you please give me the translation of other authors? You are still saying that I deleted some words, compare other authors with the one given and tell me if the verses are not referring to Quran as against your lie that the verses referred to other books.




Meanwhile, you have once again confirmed that ANY translation of the Qur'an will most definitely contain errors! If you cannot trust Shakir's translation because your gimmicks are exposed, then what is the rational for even your misquoting Hilali-Khan's translation??


Abegi, stop deceiving yourself. Give me the full verses of the translators and tell if their meanings are different.




Quote from: babs787 on April 17, 2007, 11:06 AM  #4. What 'books' are being referred to; and WHERE are they? || Sura 66:12 'And Marium, the daughter of Imran, who guarded her chastity, so We breathed into her of Our inspiration and she accepted the truth of the words of her Lord and His books, and she was of, the obedient ones.'  Must you lie brother? Truth stands from falsehood. This is the verse  Quran 66 v 12: And Mary, the daughter of Imran who guarded her chastity. And we breathed into her through our angel (Jibril) and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord (i.e believed in the words of Allah; be - and he was; that is Jesus, son of Mary as a Messenger of Allah) and also believed in His scriptures and she was of the pious,  See you being further exposed! You're quoting and misquoting from Hilali-Khan's translation, while my quote was from Shakir's. Apart from the fact that I haven't misquoted Shakir's, here's once again the verse from Hilali-Khan that you have cheated on (wordings that you tampered with are in bold; the one's you removed are in red):  yours: And Mary, the daughter of Imran who guarded her chastity. And we breathed into her through our angel (Jibril) and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord (i.e believed in the words of Allah; be - and he was; that is Jesus, son of Mary as a Messenger of Allah) and also believed in His scriptures and she was of the pious.  Hilali-Khan: And Maryam (Mary), the daughter of 'Imrân who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (the sleeve of her shirt or her garment) through Our Rûh [i.e. Jibrael (Gabriel)], and she testified to the truth of the Words of her Lord [i.e. believed in the Words of Allâh: "Be!" and he was; that is 'Iesa (Jesus) ­ son of Maryam (Mary); as a Messenger of Allâh], and (also believed in) His Scriptures, and she was of the Qanitîn (i.e. obedient to Allâh).  Click the link to access Hilali-Khan's online English translation of the Qur'an <http://www.road-to-heaven.com/quran/english/66.htm>; and a second one here    




Brother, still the same issue, the verses of the Quran do not change despite different authors. You have been accusing me of dishonesty all these while, can you please give me the full verses and tell me the meaning? You have been going round in circles and making no sense, please wake up brother. What does the statement mean 'and (also believed in) His Scriptures'.? You know you said in your previous post that the verse referred to books which you are trying to say that they are lost. Now am asking you again, what does the highlighted statement mean to you? ARE the verses not referring to Jesus? Thanks




You may call me anything you like: I'm used to it. But at least, please have the decency of being honest enough not to mislead your readers into believing and confirming my assertions that you're a total stranger to truth and reason!

Judge yourself please.



Quote from: babs787 on April 17, 2007, 11:06 AM  The books referred to are the scriptures i.e the Injil and the Gospel given to Moses and Jesus respectively. Na wa for your websites or authors. Another otiose excuse. I'm sorry that I never read in the Qur'an that Muhammad's 'Allah' sent down any Injil to Moses - it maintains throughout that it was rather the Torah that was sent to Moses!! And even then, may I ask you once again:  Where are the Torah, the Injil, the Psalms, and ALL the books that you claim were lost?  If you cannot provide them, your Qur'an is standing on the same fallacious argument you alleged against the Bible. YOUR QUR'AN IS NOT A COMPLETE BOOK!! Period.  Filling the thread with silly misquotes of Hilali-Khan's English translation; calling me all sorts of names; and arguing with skewed theories in the hope that you will tire out the readers not to see your dribbles, are not going to help you round this subject it all. You have said nothing substantial so far; and I do hope that all your jackbooters can see you exposed for what you really are - a hypocrite who can't hold up to his own words!!  If it wasn't that nossycheek has provided you with further exposure to your games, I would gladly have obliged you something to keep you busy. The joke of calling me a liar, when you can't prove your familiarity to truth!


Brother stop wasting your time unnecessarily, you and your folks have been the one using all sort of names for babs which he never cared. I never misquoted anything, you are the one confusing yourself. All the translators said the same thing unless you want to deceive yourself. In your first post, you claimed that the verses were referring to other books whereas the verses referred to Jesus and the Gospel. You posted three rejoinders in which I have provided detailed responses to your allegations. Are you trying to deny the incompleteness of the bible? Another question again, you know that Muhammed never met Moses and Jesus, so how come we are having their stories in the Quran. Again, what does the Torah contains and what does the Gospel contain. Lest I forget, what does the Psalm contain?

Thanks.

Maybe when you are able to supply answers, we will continue from there.

someone seems to be convulsing
Well the Koran is being revealed on this thread and there are no bedsheets involved

@babs787,

Even though I'm going to be away for a few days and still busy outside my location, your recent comebacks are such a laugh that they present no real substance other than your usual drivel. Grow up and show your wits if you've got any, because you've always been playing the same tired old silly games which have not served you any good this time around ion the Forum, and definitely not on this thread.

babs787:

stop deceiving yourself. Go to 'Is the bible complete" and refute the posts and stop wasting your time. Let me have your rebuttal to my posts.

You're being ridiculous with your sobs here. I deliberately opened this thread to answer most of your plagiarized challenges - go to the first paragraph of my first post on this thread and read it again: "Here are my responses to the challenges you offered in several threads." You're dancing around issues now because you've been exposed for the fraud that you are, after pretending that those plagiarized articles are your otiose scholarship.

babs787:

Complaining? Never, when the time comes, babs will resurrect some threads and we will continue. Please rebut my response to your lenghty posts.

I can't believe you're sobbing this much and now complaining that my posts were lengthy. What do you call your lengthy rank-xeroxed articles?

babs787:

Quote from: babs787 on May 09, 2007, 01:39 PM
TRUTH HAS COME FALSEHOOD IS BOUND TO PERISH.
Na so. That is why we continue to oblige you the falsehood in islam - and it is only a matter of time before your falsehood will perish. Sit tight and hold a towel.

Yes you are right especially the falsehood about the completeness of the bible.

What are you agreeing 'yes' to - that you should hold a towel, or that your falsehood will perish as your hypocrisy has been exposed?

babs787:

Oh really, you imagine the pot calling kettle black, did you use your brain when you posted three lengthy rejoinders thinking that babs will never have time for your lies but you were shocked and babs went as far as revealing your falsehood more in the areas of giving quoting wrong verses from my book.

Olodo. Where are the wrong verses?? You really don't know how to guard your pus-brains up until now, to the extent that you're admitting there are 'wrong verses' from your book! I quoted from the translations of Shakir and of Yusuf Ali: where did I misquote them? I'm sure they would be throwing a party to celebrate your calling them "deluded authors that lied", yes?!?

babs787:

Muslim camp? You can see that you are confused yourself. Thats one thing about Islam, if any falshood wants to approach it, the muslim world is quickly alerted and necessary steps is taken. How many homes do you see the Quran and how many muslims are aware of him?

In the first place, you're further exposing your fraud. You have boasted severally about the Qur'an; but the moment your bubbles burst, you're wailing hysterically. Whatever the case, it is alarming that you could go so far to call your Muslim authors "liars"; and I wonder what "necessary steps" your muslim world took to expose your calumniating sham against those Muslim authors?

babs787:

I thought you are claiming that Jehovah witnesses are not part of you amd that they are not christians.

Where have I discussed the Jehovah Witnesses, or called them the same thing you called your Muslim authors/translators - "deluded authors that lied"?? I may not agree with them; but you won't find me referring to them with vexed illiterate name-calling as you did your Muslim authors.

babs787:

What gear? Where have I claimed to have been a Muslim? I relaxed, but since you're know for your hypocrisy and antics to continue your propaganda, I served you your own soup, nice and clean. Enjoy!!

Really, yes you revealed your falsehood again.

Whay falsehood? You see how empty you are? If you had nothing to offer, why come back trying to circle round issues and saying absolutely nothing to the gist of my response? Typical of your games - so that you can go and make your otiose noise in other threads about having raised questions which I haven't rebutted! Too bad your websites failed to give you materials to plagiarize and paste here, because they just weren't thinking you'd ever have to face issues such as you found here. Your games have failed you miserably.

babs787:

Honestly I keep saying it, we are now seeing the liars. Common, go there and rebut the links on papyril. You are laying emphasis on some missing books, didnt I give you missing verses from the bible too? Your lies have been exposed so no where to hide.

I'm quite used to your slobber accusations. When you're done sobbing, let us know. Just only the issue of the missing books of the Qur'an and you're taking such a bad hit as if your last hour has arrived! If I had served you the missing verses all at once, would we be reading that you took a heart attack?

babs787:

You are still here defending the indefendable. It is very glaring with those links supplied that your bible is imcomplete. Do I need say more? Common be a man and stop deceiving yourself. Even a non muslim told your sister same in that thread to stop wasting her time because babs supplied the facts needed.

Who's the non-muslim whose 'politically correct' drama has been put to rest? It's just so silly that your empty noise here is just on the one issue of the missing books in the Qur'an, which you claimed were lost! After circling round that issue and exposing your fraud of doublespeak, you still are left with an INCOMPLETE Qur'an!

babs787:

Brother, it seems you are confused. I thought you have asked those questions in your three posts and I have responded, you only need to go and read again and get back at me. Are you still saying your bible is complete?

If you weren't satisfied with my answers, where are the missing books of the Qur'an, babs787? This shamless games you've been playing will not wash away your fraud.

babs787:

I don't need to waste time with you, fact has been established you are just shouting unnecesaarily which is very normal when falsehood is being revealed. Go to the thread 'is bible complet' and read more for yourself.

When you're done wailing for the exposure of your fraud here, come back for more. If you're deliberately pretending not to have read the first paragraph of my first post here, you still won't get behind this hypocrisy of yours.

babs787:

Okay professor, what do the Injil and Gospel contain? What do the books of Moses and Jesus contain? Thanks

What is the difference between the "Injil" and the "Gospel", babs787? And what again did you say about the Torah and Injil of the Qur'an - LOST or otherwise?

babs787:

Second, you never made the assumption that any of those books including the Torah, Gospel and Psalms were included in the Qur'an. Scroll back up and see what you said as I quoted; and if you're trying to play silly with this, then I will quote it directly for you once again:

I never did? We are now seeing who has been acting silly all these while. Read up again for understanding professor.

Don't make matters worse as it already is for you. What nonsensical talk are you now trying to dribble round the open statements you made earlier?? Have you no shame at all? Come back and deny them again and let's know how big an unblushingly caviling hypocrite you are!

babs787:

Quote from: babs787 on April 17, 2007, 11:06 AM
IS THE QURAN WRONG IN STATING THAT THE TORAH WAS LOST OR CORRUPTED?click here and read it <https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-46848.0.html>!

Quote from: babs787 on April 23, 2007, 10:48 AM
The Quran is the last book revealed to the seal of the prophets because the original message of both Torah and Gospel cannot be found.click here to read it <https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-46848.0.html>!

There they are! So, don't even try to cut corners with me, because I warned you in the first post of this thread that you will come back exposing your dishonesty, deception and hypocrisy!! I should have captioned this thread: "BABS787 EXPOSED!!" and make readers see the hypocrite that you are. You can't even stand up to your own words, and then you have the temerity to be calling Christians liars! I hope your brethren will see you exposed for the real person that you are!! Enjoy the exposure!!


Haba, Nairaland users I tire for this liar o. I DIRECTED HIM TO LINKS CONTAINING THE MISSING BOOKS AND DIFFERENT BIBLES AND HE IS HERE ACUSSING ME OF LYING AGAIN WHEN TRUTH HAS BECOME GLARING.

No matter how much you try to belie the issue here, you're only managing to convince readers of your fraud and cowardize. The links I posted there clearly has your quote saying that "THE TORAH WAS LOST" (1st link); and "both Torah and Gospel cannot be found" (2nd link).

Now you thought you were being clever in changing the URL for the links to the first page of the thread, and try to deceive readers into thinking those were the links in my quote! Here they are:

My 1st link: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-46848.0.html#msg1045746
changed by you: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-46848.0.html

My 2nd link: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-46848.0.html#msg1061562
changed by you: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-46848.0.html

They all link to the same thread; but the links I provided (which you altered) were supposed to direct readers to the particular pages where I clipped your quotes from!! This is the kind of hypocrisy and shameless caviling that you're known for - and I hope that your adulators can see you for the pathological sleazebag that you've made out of yourself!

Let me ask you again: In the links I offered, did you never make the statements: "THE TORAH WAS LOST" and "both Torah and Gospel cannot be found"?? From your answers, you will confirm your deceptive trademark.

well done Stimulus.
His"inteligence" is so glaring.
We are all in awe

@babs787,

babs787:

posting lenghty rejoinder yet making no sense. What are you trying to say up sir?

Pretend you didn't understand the question, which is only typical of your games. Sorry, this time you have managed to further confirm it.  

babs787:

Take a look at that line again: "the Torah contains story of Jesus" - even the Qur'an does not teach that. Have you become another Khalifite overnight?

If the Quran does no teach Gospel, why does it contain JESUS' STORY, HIS DISCIPLES AND HIS PEOPLE?

Where did the Qur'an teach that "the TORAH contains story of Jesus", babs787?? Has the "TORAH" suddenly become the "GOSPEL" (INJIL) to you? Why all these doublespeak and pretences about your earlier statements? Play more games: you simply can't pretend any antics here with me.

Meanwhile, since you also categorically referred to the TORAH and INJIL as 'BOOKS', don't even try snaking round your statement and now pretending they are "STORIES"!! My question still remains:

WHERE ARE THE TORAH, INJIL AND PSALMS THAT THE QUR'AN SPEAKS ABOUT??

Once again, let's see you come back hopping round the question and proving to your brethren that you're a complete stranger to truth and reason!

babs787:

Now you claimed that the books are not included, please what does the gospel given to jesus contains?

I made no claims. Rather, I asked you questions; and from your answers I drew the inference from what you stated:

". . .the original message of both Torah and Gospel cannot be found"!!!
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-46848.0.html#msg1061562

. . .THE TORAH WAS LOST
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-46848.0.html#msg1045746

Come back and play your deception at trying to twist what you said; or go back to those threads and edit those lines so that readers will celebrate your conceit!

babs787:

If the quran didnt contain those books, why are we having jesus story and that of Moses?

Did you not openly declare that "those books" cannot be found?? What kind of farcical gamble are you attempting here that is only making matters worse for you??

babs787:

Brother, why can't you reason for a minute and stop going round in circles. You accused me of omitting some words from the Quran, can you please give me the translation of other authors? You are still saying that I deleted some words, compare other authors with the one given and tell me if the verses are not referring to Quran as against your lie that the verses referred to other books.

If you're not deliberately blinding yourself or reading with smoking lantern, go back and compare the quotes - I neatly arranged them there for you because I suspected you would come back making this silly statement. You're so very predictable.

babs787:

Abegi, stop deceiving yourself. Give me the full verses of the translators and tell if their meanings are different.

Were you blind before you offered Hilali-Khan's translation and denounced both the translations of YusufAli and of Shakir - even going so far as to label them "deluded authors that lied"??

babs787:

Brother, still the same issue, the verses of the Quran do not change despite different authors. You have been accusing me of dishonesty all these while, can you please give me the full verses and tell me the meaning? You have been going round in circles and making no sense, please wake up brother. What does the statement mean 'and (also believed in) His Scriptures'.? You know you said in your previous post that the verse referred to books which you are trying to say that they are lost. Now am asking you again, what does the highlighted statement mean to you? ARE the verses not referring to Jesus? Thanks  

Look at this shameless cheat!! Are you suffering from shock relapses, babs787?? How is it that you're now turning round and accusing me of your own statement? When I asked you what the Qur'an means by "His books" and "His Scriptures", this is what you said earlier:

Brother I have answered up. His books are the Torah, injil, and the Quran

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-52589.0.html#msg1102498

Now answer the question: WHERE are the TORAH and the INJIL of the Qur'an, babs787?

Let's read another one of your twisted denials - just be my guest.

babs787:

Brother stop wasting your time unnecessarily, you and your folks have been the one using all sort of names for babs which he never cared.

Rubbish. How many times have you used all sorts of name-calling on others that people did not care enough to reason with you? You don't even have the shame for your slow-wittedness to have referred to your Muslim authors as LIARS!

babs787:

I never misquoted anything, you are the one confusing yourself.

Deceive yourself - the records are there.

babs787:

All the translators said the same thing unless you want to deceive yourself.

Olodo.   If you knew this, what was the point of your quoting Hilali-Khan's verses after I have used other translations?

babs787:

In your first post, you claimed that the verses were referring to other books whereas the verses referred to Jesus and the Gospel.

With all the sobbing, have you been able to provide an answer as to where the Gospel/Injil is (after having claimed that they were LOST)?

babs787:

You posted three rejoinders in which I have provided detailed responses to your allegations.

Your responses, or your usual plagiarism?

babs787:

Are you trying to deny the incompleteness of the bible?

If you are not satisfied with my answers, then give me the answer to my questions. Your usual denials is not working here.

babs787:

Another question again, you know that Muhammed never met Moses and Jesus, so how come we are having their stories in the Quran.

I didn't ask you to give me "stories" - and the Qur'an didn't call them "stories"; rather, it calls them BOOKS!! If you can't provide the BOOKS, the Qur'an is INCOMPLETE! You can cry all you want, but your own silly games will continually be exposed and applied to the Qur'an.

babs787:

Again, what does the Torah contains and what does the Gospel contain. Lest I forget, what does the Psalm contain?

All the three books which you have claimed "cannot be found", yes?? Oga babs787, you need to be schooled up with more fraud - your fellows have bitterly let you down. When your "Torah" and "Gospel" are LOST, what nonsensical arguement are you trying to drum here in the usual al-taqiyya tune??

babs787:

Thanks.

Maybe when you are able to supply answers, we will continue from there.

"Maybe" - because you were biting your fingers in frantic hope that I would never reply, just because I'm going away for a few weeks, yes?? Sorry bros, you will not get away so cheaply. This Islamic under-scholarship you've been pretending all along will. . . (you guessed it). . . PERISH!!  

Babs787, just don't try your games with me. You're simply

@babyosisi,

babyosisi:

well done Stimulus.
His"inteligence" is so glaring.
We are all in awe

The guy neva see nothing yet, lol. For a long time he's been getting away cheaply with his al-taqiyya. . . too bad for him now that his falsehood has to be exposed publicly like this.

stimulus:


Babs787, just don't try your games with me. You're simply

@stimulus,

I've been following your debates with babs787. You've done quite well in exposing his hypocrisy and deliberate defamation of Christ, as well his unceasing calumny against Christianity. It's obvious he's been playing these illiterate games for long; but he didn't quite prepare for the exposure. You don't have to worry a thing now: we dey here and in the coming weeks, I'll help him further with the hideous camouflage about Muhammad - right from their very books.

allah? mohammed? in accordance with free speech i would like to say that the world is better off without muslims.

The world is an exciting place with Muslims, actually.

It all depends on what specific cut of Islam any Muslim today pursues: Muhammad's Islam, or the contemporary Liberal Islam.

Even within the various interpretations of Christianity, one might argue that the world would be a better place without Christians (free speech, again!). And the list can go on endlessly with atheism, free thinkers, paganism, and all sorts.

Let's look at a few versions of what I mean:

Version 1.

I think the world is an exciting place with me as a Christian. I carry machine guns and "take down" any person who disagrees with me - and it doesn't even matter what 'god' you believe in; or whether or not you believe in 'god' at all. Just express your free speech that you dare to disagree with me, and kaput! you're history!!

You can modify version 1 to include those within our ranks who are ready to smoke you if you don't attend our church after receiving healing from our MOG; or those others who refer to all of you nice Christians as children of "babylon" if you're worshipping on Sunday!!
----------------------

Version 2.

I'm nice going with everybody. They call me the mover of "political correctness"; and I don't mind compromising with liars and robbers, just so long as my selfish image and desires are not hurt. The only time I feel hurt is when I'm told the hard truth in a loving manner - and then you'll see my face red.

No need modifying or upgrading this one, because we plenty and we dey troll the net like virus everywhere!
----------------------

Version 3.

I'm a fool for Jesus and belong to those who hold fastidiously to the Bible in a literal way. The only difference between our group and those who are called LITERALISTS is that we don't use our intelligence, while everyone else is using their brains. Some of us have been scotched and burnt in 'cults'; but thank God we've come out from them and now know far better!

----------------------

Version 4.

I'm one of those few Christians who believes he's not perfect; failed in the past, but thankful to find forgiveness, refreshment and new vigour in the grace of God through Jesus Christ. We're also thankful to receive correction; and you'll find us among many evangelical groups who go beyond the mere talk of their faith into proving it in reaching out to others. We're not perfect in any way; and indeed, some among us are known to have had very disgraceful pasts. All the same, we don't look at what's behind; but rather strive for what's in front.

Does anyone know where I'm coming from?


Okay, bottomline is that if we believe in free speech, let's also respect the right of everyone to live and be among us - whether they're atheists, pagans, muslims, etc. We detest the extremism that threatens everyone's life - and indeed, the world would be a better place without these threats!

Enjoy.

what is going on in this house? Stimulus & Babs 787, i admire ur power of research and ur posts would have been excellent if not for the abuse and blasphemy on both sides. is that really necessary? I've watched a lot of comparative religious debates on TV and they can be really heated but they NEVER abuse themselves or blaspheme the way u guys are doing. is it a nigerian thing? (cos these debates are usually in the UK).Make  una take am easy. and the Supporter's club members that are adding fuel to this fight,cool down. Seriously though, I'm loving this debate.

Okay, I'm one of those in the supporter's club. Usually, I carry nor sponsor's adverts - whether here in the UK, or at home in naija.

I agree with you that both sides have used some very strong language (out of vexation, perhaps). I've also learnt beyong my very small understanding of Islam and Christianity - thanks to them both!

What I can't understand though. is the fact that a Muslim refers to his Muslim authors as (*****)!! I can't get it, and it still amazes me up until now. The hypocrisy and deceptive dribbling - those I am quite used to. But denouncing one's own fellow believers is perhaps a new one that will take time before I digest it (if at all)!!

Gwaine:

Okay, I'm one of those in the supporter's club. Usually, I carry nor sponsor's adverts - whether here in the UK, or at home in naija.

I agree with you that both sides have used some very strong language (out of vexation, perhaps). I've also learnt beyong my very small understanding of Islam and Christianity - thanks to them both!

What I can't understand though. is the fact that a Muslim refers to his Muslim authors as (*****)!! I can't get it, and it still amazes me up until now. The hypocrisy and deceptive dribbling - those I am quite used to. But denouncing one's own fellow believers is perhaps a new one that will take time before I digest it (if at all)!!

Well, maybe he feels the author was not knowledgeable enough on the topic,yet he wrote a book on it. That could be the reason. U know it's very annoying when u see someone confidently talking trash.

Nicer:

U know it's very annoying when u see someone confidently talking trash.

I concur. And above all, you made huge sense in cautioning that we remain sane as the dicussions progress.

------------------------

Oya stimulus, you hear?? No more hot exchanges with babs787!! Leave them all to me - I have more vocabs for him than you can manage!!   


_{Oops!! @Nicer, just kidding. I'll try and keep my sanity!}  

@stimulus


Even though I'm going to be away for a few days and still busy outside my location, your recent comebacks are such a laugh that they present no real substance other than your usual drivel. Grow up and show your wits if you've got any, because you've always been playing the same tired old silly games which have not served you any good this time around ion the Forum, and definitely not on this thread.


Really? Who has been playing silly between you and I that has been running from questions?



You're being ridiculous with your sobs here. I deliberately opened this thread to answer most of your plagiarized challenges - go to the first paragraph of my first post on this thread and read it again: "Here are my responses to the challenges you offered in several threads." You're dancing around issues now because you've been exposed for the fraud that you are, after pretending that those plagiarized articles are your otiose scholarship.


I doubt if your brother Gwaine has been reading your posts full of lies accusing me of plagiarism. My questions were not only on some lost books but also on some missing verse which you ignored mentioning only that of the lost books. Go to the link supplied by your very self and re-read again and stop deceiving yourself.

Three questions were asked in which the first question was on why protestants are having 66 books and catholics 73 books. The second was on some missing verses while the third was on some lost books mentioned. You ignored the first two and only talked on the last question pretending as if I have asked only that question. Common, wake up and stop deceiving yourself.

The second link supplied by you was pilgrim’s response to loveking’s question on some missing books from the bible dated April 12, 2007 and quoted below:

Quote from: LoveKing on April 12, 2007, 09:59 AM
hello> ? where is the book of Jasher as reported in the Book of Joshua?

Josh. 10:13 - And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

Pilgrimn's response
The book of Jasher was referred to merely as confirmation of the event in that verse. It does not give the idea that it was part of the canon of Scripture that the Jews saw as inspired.

Christians will never stop amusing me. The verse is self-explanatory yet they will give it their own meaning. The verse said Is not this written in the book of Jasher? Where is the book of Jasheer bros?


Quote from: LoveKing on April 12, 2007, 09:59 AM
or the book of Jehu as stated in the 2nd book of Chronicles? yeah the bible is complete! *shuuumck*

2 Chron. 20:34 - Now the rest of the acts of Jehoshaphat, first and last, behold, they are written in the book of Jehu the son of Hanani, who is mentioned in the book of the kings of Israel.

pilgrim's response
The same thing as above: it does not give the idea that the book of Jehu was regarded as Scripture. Jehu the son of Hanani is said to be mentioned in "the book of the Kings of Israel", and the reference could be found in I Kings 16.


Same issue. Brother, over to you now. Is the above mentioned book not supposed to be part of your bible? Where is the book mentioned please?




I can't believe you're sobbing this much and now complaining that my posts were lengthy. What do you call your lengthy rank-xeroxed articles?

Babs has never been and will never be. You are the one that has been shouting that babs has been defaming your faith and you have just started, remember you still have questions unanswered in some threads and when I am ready for you I will give you misright’s questions with the addition of mine, then your brother Gwaine will assist in answering them.



What are you agreeing 'yes' to - that you should hold a towel, or that your falsehood will perish as your hypocrisy has been exposed?

Brother, stop deceiving yourself. Is your bible complete?



Olodo. Where are the wrong verses?? You really don't know how to guard your pus-brains up until now, to the extent that you're admitting there are 'wrong verses' from your book! I quoted from the translations of Shakir and of Yusuf Ali: where did I misquote them? I'm sure they would be throwing a party to celebrate your calling them "deluded authors that lied", yes?!?


You can say that again, you own your stinking mouth, you can use it to say whatever you feel like. It has become your trade mark to resort to abuse whenever you have nothing sensible to say. As for the issue of shakir and Yussuf Ali, I can see that you and your clown are deluded. Go to the verses again, the verses are talking about unbelievers and how that day will be for them yet you showed your lack of understanding, but always ready to insult, typical Christian trademark, so it doesn’t move me.

You told me that the verse talks about some books in which if you have applied your senses, you would have read that the verses was talking about unbelievers and how that day will be for them. Below is your question that caused your confusion.


May 8, 2007
#5. Where are the 'Sacred Books' and Books of Deeds? || Sura 54:43 & 52
'Are your Unbelievers, (O Quraish), better than they? Or have ye
an immunity in the Sacred Books? - All that they do is noted in (their)
Books (of Deeds)'

Like I said, if you had applied your senses, you would have read that the verses including the one above are talking about unbelievers and how that day will be like and not your childish interpretation.


In the first place, you're further exposing your fraud. You have boasted severally about the Qur'an; but the moment your bubbles burst, you're wailing hysterically. Whatever the case, it is alarming that you could go so far to call your Muslim authors "liars"; and I wonder what "necessary steps" your muslim world took to expose your calumniating sham against those Muslim authors?

Brother, why not relax your muscle and think for a while. I have provided answer up. You applied your biblical reasoning that has failed you. Who should be called a liar, is it you that said that there is no name like Jesus Barabas in the bible or babs? I have explained to you, the verse you laid emphasis is talking about unbelievers that believes that everything they do is not being recorded. You need to read from the beginning and educate yourself.



Where have I discussed the Jehovah Witnesses, or called them the same thing you called your Muslim authors/translators - "deluded authors that lied"?? I may not agree with them; but you won't find me referring to them with vexed illiterate name-calling as you did your Muslim authors.


Brother, you are confused more, you asked me for the whereabout of the book mentioned in that verse and I told you that if you had applied your senses, you would have read that the verse is referring to judgment day and not childish thinking. You brought up the issue of Khalifites and I brought that of Jehovah witness, so stop going in circles.


Really, yes you revealed your falsehood again.


Yes, we are beginning to see that .



Whay falsehood? You see how empty you are? If you had nothing to offer, why come back trying to circle round issues and saying absolutely nothing to the gist of my response? Typical of your games - so that you can go and make your otiose noise in other threads about having raised questions which I haven't rebutted! Too bad your websites failed to give you materials to plagiarize and paste here, because they just weren't thinking you'd ever have to face issues such as you found here. Your games have failed you miserably.

You have been the one crying that babs has been deriding jesus having exposed your falsehood and you should better go to Jerusalem and cry your heart out there. Soon, threads will be created for you and your folks.




I'm quite used to your slobber accusations. When you're done sobbing, let us know. Just only the issue of the missing books of the Qur'an and you're taking such a bad hit as if your last hour has arrived! If I had served you the missing verses all at once, would we be reading that you took a heart attack?

Brother, you can see that you have nowhere to hide. Common give me some missing verses just as i have done. I have provided detailed response to your questions unless you don’t want to read your lies.



Who's the non-muslim whose 'politically correct' drama has been put to rest? It's just so silly that your empty noise here is just on the one issue of the missing books in the Qur'an, which you claimed were lost! After circling round that issue and exposing your fraud of doublespeak, you still are left with an INCOMPLETE Qur'an!

Brother, you have been provided detailed response, you only to go there and read again
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-52589.0.html




If you weren't satisfied with my answers, where are the missing books of the Qur'an, babs787? This shamless games you've been playing will not wash away your fraud.


I have provided you answers in the links above, you only need to go there and read but if you are not satisfied or you are having sight problem, you can still ask your questions here and babs will surely respond.



When you're done wailing for the exposure of your fraud here, come back for more. If you're deliberately pretending not to have read the first paragraph of my first post here, you still won't get behind this hypocrisy of yours.

You know you problem, when your falsehoods is exposed you go about crying that babs is deriding your faith yet no muslim has said same since you and your friends have been posting same. You have been preaching those false doctrines and you should always be ready to answer the questions on your belief. If you still want to cry, the Wailing Wall is there, you go and cry your heart out.




What is the difference between the "Injil" and the "Gospel", babs787? And what again did you say about the Torah and Injil of the Qur'an - LOST or otherwise?

Brother stop playng games with me, your falsehood has been exposed and more will still be exposed. I am asking you again, what do the ‘torah’ and ‘injil’ contain?



Don't make matters worse as it already is for you. What nonsensical talk are you now trying to dribble round the open statements you made earlier?? Have you no shame at all? Come back and deny them again and let's know how big an unblushingly caviling hypocrite you are!


You are the one confusing yourselves when it is glaring that you have been exposed more. Brother, if you are not satisfied with my response, bring your questions and I will re-explain and it will probably sink into your pea-sized brain this time.




No matter how much you try to belie the issue here, you're only managing to convince readers of your fraud and cowardize. The links I posted there clearly has your quote saying that "THE TORAH WAS LOST" (1st link); and "both Torah and Gospel cannot be found" (2nd link).

Now you thought you were being clever in changing the URL for the links to the first page of the thread, and try to deceive readers into thinking those were the links in my quote! Here they are:

My 1st link: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-46848.0.html#msg1045746
changed by you: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-46848.0.html


We are now seeing who is confused. I didn’t change any URL but its just you lacked reasoning. In your first post here https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-52589.0.html, you claimed that babs based the incompleteness of the bible on some missing books whereas babs gave you three questions and not only on the missing books alone, but on some missing verses and I directed you to the link you thought that babs changed. You showed your dishonesty by telling me that I talked about the missing books alone whereas I talked about protestants and catholics bible, I also talked about some missing verses. So we can see real dishonesty now. I never changed anything, I gave you the same way I have it and this is the link below again
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-46848.0.html

I even perused the two links and found that it contain same thing, so why the cry about? You lied that I talked about only missing books but babs talked on some missing verses too. So judge yourself man.


My 2nd link: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-46848.0.html#msg1061562
changed by you: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-46848.0.html

They all link to the same thread; but the links I provided (which you altered) were supposed to direct readers to the particular pages where I clipped your quotes from!! This is the kind of hypocrisy and shameless caviling that you're known for - and I hope that your adulators can see you for the pathological sleazebag that you've made out of yourself!


Brother why not calm down for a while and stop this your hide and seek game. You accused me in your first paragraph that I concluded that the bible is incomplete through some missing books whereas I gave you some missing verses too hence my giving you that link to show your dishonesty. It was very glaring that I didn’t only comment on missing books but also on missing verses but in your first statement, you showed your normal Christian trademark, lied that I talked on missing books alone. It didn’t come as a surprise, hope you remember the issue of Jesus Barabas too? If you care to know I didn’t change anything, I directed to the link to show your hypocrisy and dishonesty, crying that I only talked on missing books while babs talks on missing verses too.



Let me ask you again: In the links I offered, did you never make the statements: "THE TORAH WAS LOST" and "both Torah and Gospel cannot be found"?? From your answers, you will confirm your deceptive trademark.

If you are denying the fact about the lost books, please tell me, is the Torah we are having today the same as the one given to Jesus? Please respond.




Pretend you didn't understand the question, which is only typical of your games. Sorry, this time you have managed to further confirm it.

Sure, we are now seeing more of your falsehood and denials.





Where did the Qur'an teach that "the TORAH contains story of Jesus", babs787?? Has the "TORAH" suddenly become the "GOSPEL" (INJIL) to you? Why all these doublespeak and pretences about your earlier statements? Play more games: you simply can't pretend any antics here with me.

Bros, I know that you are not blind, you saw my response to your post, am asking you again, what does the Injil contains?


Meanwhile, since you also categorically referred to the TORAH and INJIL as 'BOOKS', don't even try snaking round your statement and now pretending they are "STORIES"!! My question still remains:

WHERE ARE THE TORAH, INJIL AND PSALMS THAT THE QUR'AN SPEAKS ABOUT??


Well, bros, I think I have assisted you enough, go to my response to your first post and you will read about the Torah and Injil. The question again, what do the Torah, Injil and Psalm contain please?



Once again, let's see you come back hopping round the question and proving to your brethren that you're a complete stranger to truth and reason!

You have been the one denying the truth and it shouldn’t comer as a surprise because you are well known for that.



I made no claims. Rather, I asked you questions; and from your answers I drew the inference from what you stated:

Since you have been crying that the Quran does not contain the books, what do the Torah, injil and Psalms contain?






Come back and play your deception at trying to twist what you said; or go back to those threads and edit those lines so that readers will celebrate your conceit!

Bros, another question for you, is the Gospel today same as the one given to Jesus? When you provide the anwer, I will take it up from there again and nail you more.




Did you not openly declare that "those books" cannot be found?? What kind of farcical gamble are you attempting here that is only making matters worse for you??


Sure, if that is the way you want it, so be it and am asking you again, is the Gospel today same as the one given to Jesus?





If you're not deliberately blinding yourself or reading with smoking lantern, go back and compare the quotes - I neatly arranged them there for you because I suspected you would come back making this silly statement. You're so very predictable.

Brother, you are the one making mockery of yourself. The meaning are the same regardless of authors. You raised your question based on a verse that is referring to unbelievers and how that the last day will be for them and you quickly changed your words that babs didn’t complete the verse. Brother if you had read the verse very well, you would have seen that the verse is talking about things to happen and not your thinking in which you blindly demanded to see the book mentioned there. You asked to see the book that will be opened on that day, I tire for our brethren, yet his accomplice supported him.




Were you blind before you offered Hilali-Khan's translation and denounced both the translations of YusufAli and of Shakir - even going so far as to label them "deluded authors that lied"??

Brother, I can see that you are confused more and I will help you. Regardless of the authors, the Quran will give you same meaning. Now, you asked for the book in that verse you claimed your authors were deluded and if you have not been up to mischief, you would have read that the verses talk about books that will be given to unbelievers i.e the record of deeds while the other verse talks about the earlier revelations. If you still care to read, this is your question:
#5. Where are the 'Sacred Books' and Books of Deeds? || Sura 54:43 & 52
'Are your Unbelievers, (O Quraish), better than they? Or have ye
an immunity in the Sacred Books? - All that they do is noted in (their)
Books (of Deeds)'

Funny enough, you are asking for those books when they are not part of revealed books. The books mentioned there are the books in which your deeds are written and will be given to you on that day. You are referring to future occurrence as if it has happened, na real wa o .



Look at this shameless cheat!! Are you suffering from shock relapses, babs787?? How is it that you're now turning round and accusing me of your own statement? When I asked you what the Qur'an means by "His books" and "His Scriptures", this is what you said earlier:

Same as above. I have answered you. You asked me question on the whereabout of those books mentioned in those verses . The book of deeds are the books to be given to everybody on that day while that of Jesus is on the books revealed. So no where to hide brother. You can call me any name, there is a saying that ‘charity begins at home’, so feel free to use any word, am used to that. Have you no sense in interpreting verses?







Now answer the question: WHERE are the TORAH and the INJIL of the Qur'an, babs787?

Let's read another one of your twisted denials - just be my guest.


Since you don’t want to accept the truth and reason, am asking you this question.
please tell me, what do the Torah, Injil and Psalm contain?




Rubbish. How many times have you used all sorts of name-calling on others that people did not care enough to reason with you? You don't even have the shame for your slow-wittedness to have referred to your Muslim authors as LIARS!

Is that the issue now? Now if you care to read, go to the posts where babs have insulted your folks and read their posts. Your folks have started it and I have been giving them same. So you are free to continue crying. Infact I am giving you a basket when you are ready to cry again. Go to my posts and if you see anywhere babs insulted anybody, read their posts and you would see that babs adapt to changes and has never started it.




Deceive yourself - the records are there.

Sure, if you care to read.



Olodo. If you knew this, what was the point of your quoting Hilali-Khan's verses after I have used other translations?

Brother stop crying over nothing. Your question was not on translations but on the whereabout of the books ,mentioned there. You never used your senses to read that the verse is talking about books to be opened on that day . You mistook it for every other books, I thought you are a professor but you never understood future tenses again. If you care to read, this is one of your questions demanding to see the books mentioned not knowing that the verse is referring to judgment day. Professor stimulus!!!!!!!
#5. Where are the 'Sacred Books' and Books of Deeds? || Sura 54:43 & 52
'Are your Unbelievers, (O Quraish), better than they? Or have ye
an immunity in the Sacred Books? - All that they do is noted in (their)
Books (of Deeds)'





With all the sobbing, have you been able to provide an answer as to where the Gospel/Injil is (after having claimed that they were LOST)?

Am still asking you if you failed in understanding all I have been giving you, what do those books contain? Are you still saying the books in existence are the same one given to the prophets?




Your responses, or your usual plagiarism?

Yes o, you usual denial





If you are not satisfied with my answers, then give me the answer to my questions. Your usual denials is not working here.

Am asking you again, are you saying the bible is complete and is the gospel same as the one given to Jesus?




I didn't ask you to give me "stories" - and the Qur'an didn't call them "stories"; rather, it calls them BOOKS!! If you can't provide the BOOKS, the Qur'an is INCOMPLETE! You can cry all you want, but your own silly games will continually be exposed and applied to the Qur'an.

Okay another question, if the Quran does not contain those ‘books’, please how come there are stories of Moses, Jesus and David in the bible?




All the three books which you have claimed "cannot be found", yes?? Oga babs787, you need to be schooled up with more fraud - your fellows have bitterly let you down. When your "Torah" and "Gospel" are LOST, what nonsensical arguement are you trying to drum here in the usual al-taqiyya tune??

Okay, since you are shouting that the original message is not lost, can you please tell me if the Gospel today is the same as the one given to Jesus?





"Maybe" - because you were biting your fingers in frantic hope that I would never reply, just because I'm going away for a few weeks, yes?? Sorry bros, you will not get away so cheaply. This Islamic under-scholarship you've been pretending all along will. . . (you guessed it). . . PERISH!!


Babs is not biting his fingers and will never be. I myself have been very busy and may likely be busy for some weeks but I will still be responding to your denials once in a while. No muslim complain when you post threads on their faith but heaven is always let loose when same is being asked by muslims. Truth has come, falsehood is bound to perish.


Babs787, just don't try your games with me. You're simply


Yes o, your falsehood and denial have been exposed.




The guy never see nothing yet, lol. For a long time he's been getting away cheaply with his al-taqiyya. . . too bad for him now that his falsehood has to be exposed publicly like this.

I am always here for you anytime you need me. I am waiting for more of your denials.





@Gwaine
________________________________________
I've been following your debates with babs787. You've done quite well in exposing his hypocrisy and deliberate defamation of Christ, as well his unceasing calumny against Christianity. It's obvious he's been playing these illiterate games for long; but he didn't quite prepare for the exposure. You don't have to worry a thing now: we dey here and in the coming weeks, I'll help him further with the hideous camouflage about Muhammad - right from their very books.

Bird of a feather. Brother, you have decided to be shedding tears too. When you create threads about my belief, nobody challenges or tell you that you are defaming his/her faith but when questions are asked on your so called false doctrines, then you go about crying that babs has been deriding your jesus. You may shout from now till tomorrow, the fact remains, I am used to it and it never move me. He has really exposed babs’ hypocrisy especially when stimulus lied that there is no name called Jesus Barabas and babs had to show him. Keep deceiving yourself and you know what, threads will be created on your doctrines and I will serve you questions and please you must answer them and don’t run like your brother.

Let me have where I have been deriding your Jesus or your belief and I will back it up with verses from your book. Are you not the one that has been preaching that without jesus no salvation, blood atonement, jesus dying for your sin, crucifixion of jesus, trinity etc but when questions are served on your belief, you quickly resort to ‘babs is deriding your faith’, you may shout from now till tomorrow for all I care.

Lest I forget, you can continue from where he stopped since he may not be around and threads will be created on your doctrine in which you must answer the questions in those threads.


Cheers

hisssssss blabs @blabbing.com. makes no sense only dribbling without making a point. I am used to him sha, going round in cycles

babs787:


@Gwaine
________________________________________
I've been following your debates with babs787. You've done quite well in exposing his hypocrisy and deliberate defamation of Christ, as well his unceasing calumny against Christianity. It's obvious he's been playing these illiterate games for long; but he didn't quite prepare for the exposure. You don't have to worry a thing now: we dey here and in the coming weeks, I'll help him further with the hideous camouflage about Muhammad - right from their very books.

Bird of a feather. Brother, you have decided to be shedding tears too. When you create threads about my belief, nobody challenges or tell you that you are defaming his/her faith but when questions are asked on your so called false doctrines, then you go about crying that babs has been deriding your jesus. You may shout from now till tomorrow, the fact remains, I am used to it and it never move me. He has really exposed babs’ hypocrisy especially when stimulus lied that there is no name called Jesus Barabas and babs had to show him. Keep deceiving yourself and you know what, threads will be created on your doctrines and I will serve you questions and please you must answer them and don’t run like your brother.

Let me have where I have been deriding your Jesus or your belief and I will back it up with verses from your book. Are you not the one that has been preaching that without jesus no salvation, blood atonement, jesus dying for your sin, crucifixion of jesus, trinity etc but when questions are served on your belief, you quickly resort to ‘babs is deriding your faith’, you may shout from now till tomorrow for all I care.

Lest I forget, you can continue from where he stopped since he may not be around and threads will be created on your doctrine in which you must answer the questions in those threads.

Cheers

Okay, babs. You predictably have pushed your luck. Since caution is a strange word to you, then you're inviting it's raw meaning on the other end. The self-appointed authority you think you have arrogated to yourself to demand that people chase your roundabout illiteracy is going to be well-fed; so just enjoy the interlude only as time-out to allow you prepare for your worst nightmares.

You don't mess with Gwaine!

One more word of appeal:

To the Admin: please just bear with me until after I've served babs787 his own plain truth about Muhammad and Islam. I do not mind being banned thereafter; but just leave me alone for the meantime to sanitize his rascality.

To the "politically correct Christians": please I don't want anyone raising any objections when I begin. Got worries? Just simply ignore my posts to babs787 and read magazines instead!

Thank you all.

@Gwaine


Okay, babs. You predictably have pushed your luck. Since caution is a strange word to you, then you're inviting it's raw meaning on the other end. The self-appointed authority you think you have arrogated to yourself to demand that people chase your roundabout illiteracy is going to be well-fed; so just enjoy the interlude only as time-out to allow you prepare for your worst nightmares.

You don't mess with Gwaine!


I will be here waiting for you when you are through with your noise. Thats what a frustrated man like you deserve, bursting into thread, not cautioning your folks and started acting stupidly





Insert Quote
One more word of appeal:

To the Admin: please just bear with me until after I've served babs787 his own plain truth about Muhammad and Islam. I do not mind being banned thereafter; but just leave me alone for the meantime to sanitize his rascality.

I am here bros, be prepared for more shocking truths about Jesus, your bible and your doctrines.



To the "politically correct Christians": please I don't want anyone raising any objections when I begin. Got worries? Just simply ignore my posts to babs787 and read magazines instead!

Abeg you too dey talk, serve me please. Thats whats your type deserve for acting stupidly.

babs787:


I will be here waiting for you when you are through with your noise. Thats what a frustrated man like you deserve, bursting into thread, not cautioning your folks and started acting stupidly

I am here bros, be prepared for more shocking truths about Jesus, your bible and your doctrines.

Abeg you too dey talk, serve me please. Thats whats your type deserve for acting stupidly.

. . . . . . Yet nothing dey move blabs 787, yeye person

Seems his whims is really shaking this time!

Babs is it Allah or Muhammad that owns the koran?

Lol, mrpataki. I no fit laugh finish. It's been a long time I ever saw someone so badly frightened!

@Babs,

Relax. You don't know how much you made guys laugh in my office!! It was quite a good cha-cha for you, and you were so predictable to have reacted. . . snivelling till your hands were shaking on your keyboard!

Gwaine:

@Babs,

Relax. You don't know how much you made guys laugh in my office!! It was quite a good cha-cha for you, and you were so predictable to have reacted. . . snivelling till your hands were shaking on your keyboard!

Nobody is frightened. Do whatever you've come to do. I am enjoying every bit of the debate

@ blaba 787,
Please answer my question here and as well I have raised a topic needing your attention.

mrpataki:

. . . . . . Yet nothing dey move blabs 787, yeye person

Seems his whims is really shaking this time!

Babs is it Allah or Muhammad that owns the koran?

Truth has come falsehood is bound to perish

@pataki


Why do you think owns it. If you think its Muhammed, so be it and if you think its Allah, so be it. Abi no be so?


Am signing out jare

We learnt in another thread that Mohammed was mentally disturbed,why should we take him seriously?