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How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) - Autos (2) - Nairaland

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Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by inspiredm(m): 5:46pm On Apr 18, 2011
8inch+:

This happened in 3rd week of february 2011.
Does the time frame make any difference?

The dealer claims he used another agent here on nairaland, dont know which of them's name to mention

The Dealer may be Innocent, But be it as it may, Your friend was ripped off, EFCC and Customs Task Force were deployed to the Ports not to increase Customs Charges, I understand there was an Issue at Five Star Terminal during that Period but the funds collected from your friend was pretty High.

The clearing charges for a 2007 Jeep Liberty from Five Star Terminal shouldn't be more than 380k.

Demurrhage Charges per day from Five Star Terminal shouldn't be more than 1,500 Naira


Either the Dealer or the Agent may be Culpable.
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by 8inch: 5:51pm On Apr 18, 2011
Thanks a lot, will get in touch with the dealer now and if he has nothing positive to say, i will drop his name here for him to come clear up himself and if he is innocent, expose the fraudulent clearing agent.
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by ollins(m): 8:46am On Apr 19, 2011
can you just imagine insipered i think you have to start montoring car deals involving dealers on nairaland
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by Busybody2(f): 9:52pm On Apr 23, 2011
Someone is begging for "it" angry angry angry angry angry Thank God the full moon is out cool cool cool cool cool
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by inspiredm(m): 10:11pm On Apr 23, 2011
[size=15pt]TIP 2 FOR DEALERS/SELLERS[/size][size=13pt]

Dealers / Sellers Who wish to engage in the Pre order Services Must do Extensive Research on Actual landing Costs of vehicles before Giving out Quotes to Potential Buyers.

While Some Desperate Sellers are in a rush to seal transactions, they Put up quotes that are not realistic, and then later Demand for additional Funds from the Buyer at the Later Stage of the Deal.

Buyers In Most Cases wont have  much of a Choice than to Play Ball and Pay Extra because their funds are already Tied Up.

We Implore Pre order Dealers/ Sellers to do Proper researches Before Giving Quotes To Buyers.
[/size]

[size=15pt]This Bring Us to TIP 3 For Buyers
[/size]
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by ffty: 12:08am On May 01, 2011
46km.com
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by Fhemmmy: 12:37am On May 01, 2011
inspired_m:

[size=15pt]TIP 2 FOR DEALERS/SELLERS[/size][size=13pt]

Dealers / Sellers Who wish to engage in the Pre order Services Must do Extensive Research on Actual landing Costs of vehicles before Giving out Quotes to Potential Buyers.

While Some Desperate Sellers are in a rush to seal transactions, they Put up quotes that are not realistic, and then later Demand for additional Funds from the Buyer at the Later Stage of the Deal.

Buyers In Most Cases wont have  much of a Choice than to Play Ball and Pay Extra because their funds are already Tied Up.

We Implore Pre order Dealers/ Sellers to do Proper researches Before Giving Quotes To Buyers.
[/size]

[size=15pt]This Bring Us to TIP 3 For Buyers
[/size]






I think this is a great tip . . . seems like some dealer just quote price in the name of winning a deal and choke themselves . . . . so you are very right, we the dealer needs to be sure of the price before quoting and once you have quote, we have to make sure we dont go back to clients and changing the goal post in the middle of the match
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by calculusx(m): 3:27pm On May 01, 2011
inspired_m:

[size=15pt]TIP 2 FOR DEALERS/SELLERS[/size][size=13pt]

Dealers / Sellers Who wish to engage in the Pre order Services Must do Extensive Research on Actual landing Costs of vehicles before Giving out Quotes to Potential Buyers.

While Some Desperate Sellers are in a rush to seal transactions, they Put up quotes that are not realistic, and then later Demand for additional Funds from the Buyer at the Later Stage of the Deal.

Buyers In Most Cases wont have  much of a Choice than to Play Ball and Pay Extra because their funds are already Tied Up.

We Implore Pre order Dealers/ Sellers to do Proper researches Before Giving Quotes To Buyers.
[/size]

[size=15pt]This Bring Us to TIP 3 For Buyers
[/size]






Do we know prices quoted in January can be a bit different from the one that will be quoted after 2 months when the Car arrives. If the little difference is what the dealer can take care of on his own part before the delivery,it will be better than demanding for more money before the delivery.
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by Fhemmmy: 8:00pm On May 01, 2011
calculusx:

Do we know prices quoted in January can be a bit different from the one that will be quoted after 2 months when the Car arrives. If the little difference is what the dealer can take care of on his own part before the delivery,it will be better than demanding for more money before the delivery.

That is the reason why a dealer will let the buyer know that the price quoted is good for now and now only, cos the price of today will surely not be same in 2 weeks time cos of:
Exchange rate
Cost of the available rides in the market . . . .
Other unforeseen expenses.
I have seen buyer angry with me cos he came back 3 months after a price was quoted and still want same price and when i told him the price has changed, he got angry and walked away, but i would rather face such than my name been mud in the future.

A dealer should always take their time and give the price
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by calculusx(m): 2:27pm On May 02, 2011
Fhemmmy:

That is the reason why a dealer will let the buyer know that the price quoted is good for now and now only, cos the price of today will surely not be same in 2 weeks time cos of:
Exchange rate
Cost of the available rides in the market . . . .
Other unforeseen expenses.
I have seen buyer angry with me cos he came back 3 months after a price was quoted and still want same price and when i told him the price has changed, he got angry and walked away, but i would rather face such than my name been mud in the future.

A dealer should always take their time and give the price


[color=Black]Oga Fhemmy you are right, i noticed 95% of Car Buyers wants a Clean Car but for a Cheaper price forgetting nothing good comes easy. I think buyers should beware about Average Market Value for a specific Car rather than looking for outrageous and to good to be true deal. [/color]
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-657712.0.html
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by fubtos(m): 11:01am On May 10, 2011
PLEASE WHAT IS THE CUSTOM CLEARING RANGE FOR A 2003 INFINITY QX4?

THANK YOU,
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by Fhemmmy: 1:15pm On May 10, 2011
fubtos:

PLEASE WHAT IS THE CUSTOM CLEARING RANGE FOR A 2003 INFINITY QX4?

THANK YOU,

Why not talk to some of the clearing agents that we have in the house?
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by Fhemmmy: 1:17pm On May 10, 2011
calculusx:

[color=Black]Oga Fhemmy you are right, i noticed 95% of Car Buyers wants a Clean Car but for a Cheaper price forgetting nothing good comes easy. I think buyers should beware about Average Market Value for a specific Car rather than looking for outrageous and to good to be true deal. [/color]
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-657712.0.html

That is why i like the idea of Inspire_m that the buyers should educate themselves on the average price of what they want to buy and the conditions that determine the prices
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by ObamaUS: 4:33am On May 26, 2011
@inspired,
pls how much can i get a TOYOTA TACOMA 2001-2003 with four doors, [pls send quote to ambassadorlanry@yahoo.com
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by Busybody2(f): 10:21pm On May 29, 2011
alainitiju, alainironu ara galatia, apoda, afofu gbemu oshi cool
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by satani22: 10:36pm On May 29, 2011
Busy_body:

alainitiju, alainironu ara galatia, apoda, afofu gbemu oshi cool
Aunty. Eyin ati ta lon ja
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by globexl: 3:45am On Jun 01, 2011
HEY NAIRALANDERS,
I just wanna add my wo cents. Some might call it bad belle or whatever else. I have observed that the car market in Nigeria is greatly saturated and is actually a buyers market. In other words, buyers have the advantage. A lot of cars are actually cheaper in Nija than you would buy them in USA and Europe after shipping ang clearing charges are added. Yes , I mean what am saying. Lets say you want to buy a 2005-2007 Nisssan Pathfinder for example. Dealers in nija are asking N3.5m on average. The cost in USA is about $12K to $17. Shipping is abt. $1200 to $1500 and clearing is about N400k to N600K. You do the math. Now consider that if you have , lets say N2.3m cash in hand, I can gurantee that u can get this tokumbo car in Nija with a week or two of searching in Lagos.Yes. Try and see. Just target the car of your dreams, hold abt 60 % to 70% of the average dealer price in hand and then begin searching for your dream vehicle. I gurantee you will find with one to two weeks in Lagos. The reason is simple. There are so so many cars for sale in Nija and not enough buyers that some owners have to wait for six months, 1 yr and even two years to have their cars sold for a reasonable price. At some point, many owners will get frustrated and will need cash for emergencies, projects , debts and other financial commitments. In such situations , profit become secondary and sellers are willing to sell at cost or even at a small loss just to get soem cash, This is where you, the buy steps in to create a win win situation for both you and the seller.
I just dont see any reason why anyone would want to buy a tokumbo vehicle abroad, ship it , and clear it and still think he or she got a good deal.
The good deals are in Lagos. Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

1 Like

Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by calculusx(m): 8:40am On Jun 01, 2011
globexl:

HEY NAIRALANDERS,
I just wanna  add my wo cents. Some might call it bad belle or whatever else. I have observed that the car market in Nigeria is  greatly saturated and is actually a buyers market. In other words, buyers have the advantage. A lot of cars are actually cheaper in Nija than you would buy them  in USA and Europe after shipping ang clearing charges are added. Yes , I mean what am saying. Lets say you want to buy a 2005-2007 Nisssan Pathfinder for example. Dealers in nija are asking N3.5m on average. The cost in USA is about $12K to $17. Shipping is abt. $1200 to $1500 and clearing is about N400k to N600K.  You do the math. Now consider that if you have , lets say N2.3m cash in hand, I can gurantee that u can get this tokumbo car in Nija with a week or two of searching in Lagos.Yes. Try and see. Just target the car of your dreams, hold abt 60 % to 70% of the average dealer price in hand and then begin searching for your dream vehicle. I gurantee you will find with one to two weeks in Lagos. The reason is simple. There are so so many cars for sale in Nija and not enough buyers that some owners have to wait for six months, 1 yr and even two years to have their cars sold for a reasonable price. At some point, many owners will get frustrated and will need cash for emergencies, projects , debts  and other financial commitments. In such situations , profit become secondary and sellers are willing to sell at cost or even at a  small loss just to get soem cash, This is where you, the buy steps in to create a win win situation for both you and the seller.
I just dont see any reason why anyone would want to buy a tokumbo vehicle abroad, ship it , and clear it and still think he or she got a good deal.
The good deals are in Lagos. Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

  You are on point. But do you know that 75% of cars in Lagos are either Salvage, Non-repairable {as they call it in USA}, Accident-ed or Odometer roll back? Thats the reason why they are Cheaper than a Clean Title and accident free one will buy from US,shipped and clear. Let me site an example, when i first started this business,i buy clean title/1 owner cars but noticed i don't sell them on-time and some stayed in my lot for 2yrs. I later did my research and got to know the logic behind it but i must tell you some people in Lagos still prefer to buy Clean Title and Accident free Cars, though the price will be a bit higher than what other dealers will offer.
So, its by you studying the market and get what Customer's want. Not all pre-order Cars are more expensive than what they are been sold for in Lagos and one will have the confidence in what s/he is buying. My one cent
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by Nobody: 3:57pm On Jun 03, 2011
All I see are people cheating buyers in the name of quality cars. Why would anyone want to sell a rebuilt 2010 Honda accord for 4m while accusing someone who is selling his rebuilt at 3m, There is nothing like too good to be true. I live in the number 1 place in the world and I know what kinds of deals are out there! I bought my 2010 Camaro ( Ka ma roll) for $9k at theft auction, I sold the car at an equivalence of 3.5m to an high school fresh grad in Abuja, Same car his friend bought for 9mill. Let's be honest here. Anyone willing to pre order a car must make sure the the seller has representative he or she can contact in Nigeria.


I can preorder any car for you, in fact buy the car for you clean titles and you only pay for my middle man services which is inspecting the car, VIN check, test drives, etc, If you want to rebuild a car in Nigeria (cheapest way to get latest cars). I can help you bid at dealers only auction and ship it. You'll see the pictures of the salvage your are bidding on of course.

If you want to buy any car at wholesale price, I can hook you up easily. Being born here a Nigerian means I've been getting connected since birth, Any car you want.

if you have a budget for a car, let me know you budget and I'll show you what you can get.
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by Nobody: 4:04pm On Jun 03, 2011
calculusx:

  You are on point. But do you know that 75% of cars in Lagos are either Salvage, Non-repairable {as they call it in USA}, Accident-ed or Odometer roll back? Thats the reason why they are Cheaper than a Clean Title and accident free one will buy from US,shipped and clear. Let me site an example, when i first started this business,i buy clean title/1 owner cars but noticed i don't sell them on-time and some stayed in my lot for 2yrs. I later did my research and got to know the logic behind it but i must tell you some people in Lagos still prefer to buy Clean Title and Accident free Cars, though the price will be a bit higher than what other dealers will offer.
So, its by you studying the market and get what Customer's want. Not all pre-order Cars are more expensive than what they are been sold for in Lagos and one will have the confidence in what s/he is buying. My one cent


Oh please!!!!!!

Have you seen the cars Insurance companies write off here? car with door dent is irreparable, flood cars are written off as irreparable,  What globxl said is true in all sense of it. cars are cheaper in Nigeria. odometer roll back ma yansh,  many dealers bringing cars from USA do that too.  Take for example this 2010 Honda Accord that just went for $7500 @ auction yesterday. Sold to some dude shipping it to UAE. It's only when d engine is hit, frame damage and burnt that you need to fear buying irreparables or salvage cars, If not, fix it up to your taste and use it!!!! Many dealers don't let the car titles reach rebuilt before they buy them from insurance companies, So really it happens in d USA too,

Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by BizBooks(m): 4:09pm On Jun 06, 2011
globexl:

A lot of cars are actually cheaper in Nija than you would buy them in USA and Europe after shipping ang clearing charges are added.

I am glad somebody has seen the point I have been trying to make. The above statement is a curious fact of life. However, calculusx also made an important point. Tokunboh cars in Nigeria are usually cheaper for a reason. If you look at most of the tokunboh cars on NL, you will see one striking similarity - they do not include the VINs. That could be an honest omission. It could also mean that the car has a checkered history which the dealer would want to remain secret.
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by calculusx(m): 5:47pm On Jun 06, 2011
BizBooks:

I am glad somebody has seen the point I have been trying to make. The above statement is a curious fact of life. However, calculusx also made an important point. Tokunboh cars in Nigeria are usually cheaper for a reason. If you look at most of the tokunboh cars on NL, you will see one striking similarity - they do not include the VINs. That could be an honest omission. It could also mean that the car has a checkered history which the dealer would want to remain secret.

[b]@ Bizbooks and fellow Dealers, for transparency, i think we need to enlighten buyers on NL about Vin Numbers and Vehicle History. Once a Customer see your Car has high mileage, they will either turn your Car down or price it ridiculously. I take my time to explain and convince them that not all young people are healthier than aged people. Some old people {high mileage} are healthier than young ones {low mileage}, so Cars with low mileage doesn't mean it will drive better than high mileage but our people prefer been deceived.
So whoever is ready to listen,will listen. I sold a 99 Camry with original mileage of 98,000 to a fellow dealer and he still went ahead and revert the mileage to 55,000. I asked him why and he said,he is doing what his customer wants which i don't blame him for cos some people believe so much on lies and untrustworthy dealer family friends.
Lets take out time and explain all vehicle history terms to buyers, even at that, some cars are label Non-repairable or Junks in USA but when you see such cars,they drive smooth with no visible damage or repair to be done. I agree they may not be up to their standard over there but here, anything goes as long as it drives smooth. lol[/b]
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by BizBooks(m): 8:43pm On Jun 06, 2011
@ Calculusx,

It is hard to achieve transparency in an open forum like this. That is why we have been asking the owners of NL to find a way to separate the honest dealers from the rest. For instance, some dealers are actually advertizing cars on NL with the following mileages:

2001 Car with 63,000 Miles
2003 Jeep with  17,000 Miles
2004 Jeep with 40,000 Miles
2005 Car with 42,000 Miles

A 2003 Jeep with 17,000 miles? I'm not making this up. I saw these ads in the main auto section yesterday and that is just a tip of the iceberg.
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by calculusx(m): 11:17pm On Jun 06, 2011
BizBooks:

@ Calculusx,

It is hard to achieve transparency in an open forum like this. That is why we have been asking the owners of NL to find a way to separate the honest dealers from the rest. For instance, some dealers are actually advertizing cars on NL with the following mileages:

2001 Car with 63,000 Miles
2003 Jeep with  17,000 Miles
2004 Jeep with 40,000 Miles
2005 Car with 42,000 Miles

A 2003 Jeep with 17,000 miles? I'm not making this up. I saw these ads in the main auto section yesterday and that is just a tip of the iceberg.

[b]In as much as i believe its possible to have a 2001 Car with 63,000 miles but it WILL never be sold for the same price with high or normal mileage, if otherwise, something is fishy.
Most Nigerians don't believe in the Truth and i'm tired of canvassing and convincing people cos at the end they still went underway. I told a friend of mine getting 07/08 non-accidented Camry will cost him between 2.6 - 2.9m depending on the Trim,Vehicle History and the mileage but he turned deaf ear that he is looking for something below that price like 2.3m, i said OK and wish him good luck. He came across 2008 Toyota Camry in Maryland and went ahead and purchase it. After he sealed the deal, he called me and told me he got a Clean Non-accidented 08 Camry for 2.6m and i said CONGRATS. He later called me to help check the Vehicle history which i told him its of no importance since he had sealed the deal but he insisted. He was shock when i sent him the link for his Non-accidented Car http://www.salvage-cars-for-sale.info/salvage/for-sale-toyota-camry-2008-NzQ5NTQ4Mjg3ODY5Nzk3MTEwMg
Though,the Car was well done and re-built but its as good as you knowing what you are buying. Thats typical for an average 9jerian customers though[/b]
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by BizBooks(m): 11:39pm On Jun 06, 2011
calculusx:

In as much as i believe its possible to have a 2001 Car with 63,000 miles but it WILL never be sold for the same price with high or normal mileage, if otherwise, something is fishy.


It is possible to have a 2001 car with 63,000 miles but it will be so expensive that very few dealers can afford to ship it for sale. In the US, cars are valued according to their mileage. That's why it is a serious offense to roll back odometers here. In fact, before you register a car at Motor Vehicle, you have to produce a signed "Odometer Disclosure Statement" from the dealer confirming that the odometer reading is accurate.
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by inene: 5:05pm On Jun 09, 2011
Can someone tell me how much it will cost and how i can advertise a car for sale on this site. i need this advice urgently
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by Sicherheit(m): 8:58pm On Jun 09, 2011
inene:

Can someone tell me how much it will cost and how i can advertise a car for sale on this site. i need this advice urgently
It doesn't cost anything, open a thread, post the picture of your car with COMPLETE details, put your contact information and you are set.
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by uzezi82(m): 5:39pm On Jun 12, 2011
@Inpired, calculsx , I need a quote for a 2007 Yamaha R6(600cc class sport bike). Please send to opreh@yahoo.com Thanks.
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by edward001: 1:23am On Jun 13, 2011
An auto parts warehouse is used to store automotive parts, many times auto parts can be purchased from a warehouse directly without having to go to a retail location.
There is usually a huge inventory kept at a warehouse and any part that is needed for most any common car can be found here. There are special occupations that are dedicated specifically to automotive parts management and many of these professionals will work in this area.

Do you need new parts? Go to www. askforithere..com for information on places that sell auto parts for cheap.
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by ownacar: 8:06pm On Jun 15, 2011
Buyer's tip: A friend of mine bought a 2002 toyota previa with a clutch plate problem due to owner's poor driving skills in the snow during winter. It was 170k NGN cheaper to buy the clutch faulty car, as fixing a little fault in Europe is quite expensive due to garage bureaucracy and government taxes on workshops. Giving buyers clear description of vehicle history, current fault (if ANY), economic assessment, and target delivery time-line provides for a healthy online auto mart business (NL AUTOS). The same previa was fixed for 6kNGN at Ladipo to change clutch plate.
I know a lot of Nigerians wouldn't have any problems fixing little car faults at the next door mechanic down the road, but most sweds would find it hard and very expensive to fix some faults.
I fix my car fault here for 7000 swedish kronor and that was the brake drum and calipers. 7k swed kronor (169,498.88 NGN), when fixing same parts at Ladipo would cost not more than 40-50kNGN.
There are several factors involved in the pre-order business, fair deal between buyers and sellers and also quality assurance.
1. Don't buy tokunboh vehicles from dealers who don't have Vehicle VIN, as most dealers manipulate the vehicle mechanical status (i saw a car dealer last time i was in Nigeria at Ladipo re-modelling the top roof of a CRV- obviously an accidented car. And most people buy cars in Nigeria with the excuse of such cars not having any proper records. Cars shipped from USA, Canada and EU all have VIN and vehicle history, except for some reasons dealer is concealing such info.
2. Don't buy from Dealers who have manipulated the comprehensive vehicle document. Ask to see the complete shipping document, hopefully you are not presented with a newly conjured or altered documentation.
3. Trust is the bed rock of the pre-order or auto mart biz; i join my voice with those asking for a proper accreditation by dealers on NL as that would bring some sanity to the forum and some hope to the members on auto forum.
4. Buying a car cheap is also an element of luck with so much dependency on seller seller bargaining power.
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by bodeface: 8:37pm On Jun 16, 2011
Inspired,


Please, give me the price of a clean Camry 2008 XLE (below 30,000 Miles) from Cotonuo with geniune clearing without short pay.
Please, provide the breakdown as follows, the cost of the car, the cost of Nigeria clearing and finally the total cost of landing it to Lagos Nigeria.

Thanks, looking forward to doing business.

bodeface@yahoo.com

Bodeface
Re: How To Successfully Pre Order A Car On Nairaland ( For Buyers And Sellers ) by Fhemmmy: 2:33pm On Jun 29, 2011
Only deal with your Tested and Trusted Shipping agents.

Collect all the information of the Agents in Nigeria before you sign a deal with the Shipping agent.

Never deal with a Shipping agent based on trust . . . Treat them all like a stranger and dont patronize a business all in the name of "helping a brother"

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