even as they did not believe in it in the first instance: and [so] We shall leave them in their overweening arrogance, blindly stumbling to and fro.’” (Quran 6:109-110)

I wonder where Mohammeds Koran was when he was killing innocent Jewish tribes and dividing their wives as sex slaves for him and his men.
He should have just quoted the above passage to himself and let the poor poets he hacked to death live their lives in peace.

Okay more comparisons using the reverred texts of the two religions exclusively:

Prophecy:

First, the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus wre clearly prophesied in the Old Testament (OT) accorsing to the New Testament (NT). Sevral examples will siffice. Micah 5:2 gives us the very name of the town in which the MEssaih would be born. On the day Christ died, no less than 33 OT prophecies were fulfilled.
The coming of Christ was preceeded by the coming of John th Bpatist according to Isaiah 40 and Malachi 4

What do we have for Muhammad: a start contrast, nothing, nobody prophesied his coming not even soothsayers No OT or NT prophets. The man is just no where to be found!

Births:

The birth of JEsus was miraculous in that He was conceived by the Holy Spirit in the womb of virgin Mary. The Quran and orthodox Islam fully accepts this. It is only in modern times that we find HERETICAL [/b]muslims groups who deny and ridicule the virgin birth. Yes I call them heretical because they go against their reverred texts.
What do we hear aout MO: he was the product of semen!

[b]A Sinful MO:
Where is it in the quran that MO was sinless? In Sura 18:110, MO was commanded by allah: Say, I am but a man like yourselves. Sura 40:55, Allah asks MO to ask for the forgiveness of his sins?

Sura 48:1,2,

Lo! We have given thee,
(O Mohammad) signal victory,
that Allah may forgive thee of thy sin,
that which is past and that which is to come,
and may perfect his favour unto thee, and guide thee on a right path.

MO was full of all sorts of evil vices and guiles.

What do we have of Jesus, no sin! John said, behold the Lamb of God, in whom there is no guile. . When before Pilat and Herod, they had to invent charges as they could not find a single sin against Him.

On Beauty of Speech:

When you study the speeches of Jesus as given in the Gospels, for xample, the Sermon on the Mount, you would find that Jesus was a very great speaker. Even his nemies had to confess that no man ever spoke as He spoke.

Of MO: All you see are estatic, confused speeches and nothing outstanding. Nothing matches the beauty, substance, or style of the way that Jesus preached.

A High Moral Example:

Th way Jesus lived and was willing to di for sinners has given us a high moral xample to follow. MO nko? A lifstyle lower than that of a beast that you would deem as immoral and completely unjustly.

Killing or Robbing:

Jesus never killed or robbed anyone. According to the quran, MO killed, maimed and robbed.

Coercion:

Christ never used physical violence to force people to believe His message or accept Him as the Messaiah. As a matter of fact, when Peter (erroneously called the first pope) took out his swords, Jesus told him to put it back into its sheath that physical violence was not the way of His kingdom (See Matt. 26:51-54). What do we have of MO?

On Taking Another Man's Wife:

Jesus did not do this. Mohammad had 16 wives, 2 slaves or concubines and 4 other women who just gave themselves to satisfy his lewd sexual desires.

Very many mor jare. I no fit type again.

[b]Babs, [/b]if you are true to yourself, forget the staks you hav in Islam already and seek salvation in Christ Jesus alone. He will save you and forgiv you all your sins.

What do we have for Muhammad: a start contrast, nothing, nobody prophesied his coming not even soothsayers   No OT or NT prophets. The man is just no where to be found!

i can see that you don't understand your bible atall
The Bible can attest to his coming

“The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken.” (Deuteronomy 18:15)

and

John 16:13 “He will guide you into all the truth.”

[qoute]Sura 48:1,2,
Lo! We have given thee,
(O Mohammad) signal victory,
that Allah may forgive thee of thy sin,
that which is past and that which is to come,
and may perfect his favour unto thee, and guide thee on a right path.

MO was full of all sorts of evil vices and guiles.

[/quote]


He was an individual like me and you, he was bound to sin
All prophet sinned in one way or the other but God forgived them.


[quote]
The birth of JEsus was miraculous in that He was conceived by the Holy Spirit in the womb of virgin Mary. The Quran and orthodox Islam fully accepts this. It is only in modern times that we find HERETICAL muslims groups who deny and ridicule the virgin birth. Yes I call them heretical because they go against their reverred texts.
What do we hear aout MO: he was the product of semen!

We accept he was born by a virgin but not God only a prophet
If jesus was born of a virgin woman and called God then what should we call Adam who was created neither from a father nor a mother , then Bigger God ? you make me laugh

According to the quran, MO killed, maimed and robbed.

evidence?

Mohammad had 16 wives, 2 slaves or concubines and 4 other women who just gave themselves to satisfy his lewd sexual desires,

evidence again?

mdsocks:
i can see that you don't understand your bible atall
The Bible can attest to his coming

“The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken.” (Deuteronomy 18:15)

. In fact, i dont know where to place this comic relief. I honestly enjoined that comedy scene. I almost rent my breast with laughter.

In you feeble bid to hold on to a bleak straw of hope, your imams have tried desperately to bundle Mohammed into the bible by fire by force. Must you be this dishonest and mischievous? Let me help your dropping memory with that same scripture which you woefully failed in juxtaposing like your quran of potpourri.

“[b]The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken.” (Deuteronomy 18:15)[/b].

For starters, I hope you undertand the meaning of the words boldened.
A). The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee. How on earth or in God's name is MO from the midst [/b]of the Isrealites? Or do you want to interpolate and transmute his Quarysh origin to the Jews?

B.) [b]like unto me. This is simply amazing and finally nails your coffin. Oftentimes we have asked you to show us the mighty works that your false allah used MO to perform. Till tomorrow, you chase shadows trying to modify MO's character to fit a little bit with that of Jesus or Moses in this case. We all know how Moses was used of God to perform many mighty miracles. If indeed, MO was like Moses, we would have expected similar traits in seeing the acts of God being demonstrated but what do we have? A failure, who declard emhatically that he was just a man like you mdsocks

So, sorry my guy, you need to go get a little more lectures on desperation and survival.

mdsocks:

John 16:13 “He will guide you into all the truth.”

Oh! MO has suddenly become the Holy Spirit ehn? God forbid that that unholy serial killer, pedophile tyrant would be the Holy Spirit. Okay. Lets look at this. If you are quoting the words fo Jesus here, at least ou must be true to yourself by knowing what Jesus called it. At least Jesus was referring to the Holy Spirit. Was MO a spirit?

mdsocks:
We accept he was born by a virgin but not God only a prophet
If jesus was born of a virgin woman and called God then what should we call Adam who was created neither from a father nor a mother , then Bigger God ? you make me laugh

Go on and give yourself some transient relief. FYI, We do not call him God because He was born of a Virgin woman. Your mind cannot comprehend biblical truths so no need to even give you some expositions. Thank God no christian has said Adam is bigger than God. I am hearing it from [b]md socks [/b]for the first time!

mdsocks:
evidence?

Oh! Evidence that he had 22 women in his enclave? I am so sorry, I wont give you this one. It ony shows you are not a scholar in that which you profess. I even wonder why a sane woman would offer herself to some who was not normal and handsome by any standard - shey you know his teeth were removed during a particular raid where his mouth was struck with sword, na small h remain, MO for die. Go and check up the history of his fights with the Meccans!

The sinful life of MO as established the sura's i gave earlier would suffice. Masticate that one and blush over it

mdsocks:

He was an individual like me and you, he was bound to sin
All prophet sinned in one way or the other but God forgived them.

I wonder why the insert quote did not suply this interesting thread of yours. I just opened my yes more and saw it. Yu can't escape.

Wait, so you admit he was just a man. Truth be told, md, I am sure you would be better in character than MO. So for God's sake, why do you still remain there. Cant you just see that MO only fulfilled his personal desires as much as he could? In all aspects, he is so inferior to Christ, why settle for less?

On a more cordial note, i really do not see reasonings that can justify islam. MO was not a prophet. His lifestyle tells you that. He did not reveal allah - allah existed before him. So, he just used people under a false pretence of being inspired. You will agree with me that he could nt get his facts right and co-ordinate his thoughts on many things and that explains the babaric sayings you have when you go deeper into the hadiths.

The hadiths, which Muslims claim also cam by divine revelation, if exposed here would throw you into serious shame and confirm to you that islam is both a sham and a shame. The hadiths severally passes MO for a lunatic rather than a revolutionalist. It confirms why to a logical reader, th quran is humiliating tothe intellect with no style of prose, beauty, literature orderings, adn so on.

My guy, Jesus loves you.

i ahve a slow connection here ,that's why i have not replied dude

mdsocks:

i

Your scribles do not add up! They dont make sense because the table you are trying to form is inscrutable. Present your opinions in a more readable way please.

Deuteronomy 18:18 “I (God) will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee (Moses), and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.”

Many of you think this prophecy foretold by Moses to be in regards to Jesus. Indeed Jesus was foretold in the Old Testament, but as will be clear, this prophecy does not befit him, but rather is more deserving of Muhammad, may God praise him. Moses foretold the following:


1. The Prophet Will Be Like Moses
check the attachment

2. The Awaited Prophet will be from the Brethren of the Jews

The verse in discussion is explicit in saying that the prophet will come amongst the Brethren of the Jews. Abraham had two sons: Ishmael and Isaac. The Jews are the descendants of Isaac’s son, Jacob. The Arabs are the children of Ishmael. Thus, the Arabs are the brethren of the Jewish nation.


The Bible affirms:
‘And he (Ishmael) shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.’ (Genesis 16:12)

‘And he (Ishmael) died in the presence of all his brethren.’ (Genesis 25:18)


The children of Isaac are the brethren of the Ishmaelites. Likewise, Muhammad is from among the brethren of the Israelites, because he was a descendant of Ishmael the son of Abraham.

3. God Will Put His Words in the Mouth of the Awaited Prophet

The Quran says of Muhammad:

“Neither does he speak out of his own desire: that [which he conveys to you] is but [a divine] inspiration with which he is being inspired.” (Quran 53:3-4)

This is quite similar to the verse in Geneses 18:15:

“I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him” (Geneses 18:18)

The Prophet Muhammad came with a message to the whole world, and from them, the Jews. All, including the Jews, must accept his prophethood, and this is supported by the following words:

“The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken.” (Deuteronomy 18:15)

To start with, these are facts from the bible that prophecies the coming of Prophet Muhammad

Wait, so you admit he was just a man. Truth be told, md, I am sure you would be better in character than MO. So for God's sake, why do you still remain there. Cant you just see that MO only fulfilled his personal desires as much as he could? In all aspects, he is so inferior to Christ, why settle for less?

thanks very much, but rather i will invite you to Islam (The religion of peace) and leave a religion which can't ven prove the authenticity of the book they follow,

AND TO THE THREAD
WAS MUHAMMAD A TERRORIST
ANSWER- NO

mdsocks:
Deuteronomy 18:18 “I (God) will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee (Moses), and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.”

Many of you think this prophecy foretold by Moses to be in regards to Jesus. Indeed Jesus was foretold in the Old Testament, but as will be clear, this prophecy does not befit him, but rather is more deserving of Muhammad, may God praise him. Moses foretold the following:

Sorry, was the boldened words a typo or intentional? If it is intentional, kindly always put 'may allah praise him'. The Christian God will not praise any mere man.

Now to the main issue:

I can see your desperation really. You try all means to infuse MO into the bible. Haba! Is it by force? Bible no talk about MO at all my guy.

Please bear in mind that the people with whom God was dealing with through moses were strictly the Isrealites. By this time, the illegitimate Ishmeal and his mother had been sent packing. The Christian God never reckoned with Hagar and Ishmeal after ejecting them from the heritage of Abraham. Get that fact straight. The isrealites, not Ishmealites, where the ones in captivity for more than 400 years and all the promises of God were to the Isrealites, the descendant of Abraham through Jacob alone! Not even Esau let alone the forsaken Ishmeal!

At least in the authenticity of superiority that the quran gives to the bible, it mentions the name of Jesus there and there is no room for ambiguity. Which one be your own now? Why be say na so so vagueries come dey you own assertions?

mdsocks:

1. The Prophet Will Be Like Moses
check the attachment

Going by all the criteria you have listed, it shows evidently that your MO is grossly inferior to Jesus Christ. Jesus na baba!

I will summarise your table into one category:

Uniqueness of criteria.

Of all the criteria and the records of each character you have put forward, it goes to say that if me [b]Cgift [/b]wake up tomorrow when i am 40 years and fit all of those other criteria, I will be called a prophet . What a cheap shot at propehthood! No man has ben able to repeat the record of Christ on those fronts! They can't beat it! This Jesus they excite me Jo!

Furthermore, I thought MO would be like Moses also in acts and mighty works? Oh! He copied some aspects of Moses and threw away the others abi?

Let me add more to your worries: Moses did not dazzle swords to spread his message [/b]to other lands, it was not even his mandate to do that in the first place. His was just to rescue them out of Egypt! He did not just wake up to attack people who did not attack him or who did not stand in his way like MO did.

MO just in an unbridled manner took lives and funny enough, his so called brothers, the Jews sufferred very heavy casualities! Are you sure you MO was not a maniac? Just asking!

You have still not told me why he was not like Moses in the acts of working wonders: sorry he wrought wonders with his sword and got his teeth chopped off!

Now lets get more serious with the [b]very serious contraditions of even the call of MO

The Quran gives us four (4) conflicting accounts of his 'call' to be a prophet. Either one of these four accounts is true and the others are false or thy are all false; they cannot all be true.

We are first told in Sura 53:2-18 [/b]and [b]Sura 81:19-24 that Allah personally appeared to MO in the form of a man and that MO saw him and heard him. This is later abandoned, and we are then told in Sura 10:102 [/b]and [b]Sura 26: 192-194, that MO's call was issued by the "Holy Spirit" (_{i wonder which kain spirit, may be na jinns or gennies} ). Sinc MO does not really discuss whom this spirit is, this on is later abandoned.

The third account is Sura 15:8 where we are told that its "angels - (plural)" that cam down and announced that it was allah that has called him to be a prophet. Evn this account was later amended like a constitution in Sura 2:97 to show that it was only [/b]the [b]angel Gabriel who issues the call and hands down the quran to him.

Which one we go choose? So much for a prphet who cannot even authenticate his call!

mdsocks:
The Quran says of Muhammad:

“Neither does he speak out of his own desire: that [which he conveys to you] is but [a divine] inspiration with which he is being inspired.” (Quran 53:3-4)

This is quite similar to the verse in Geneses 18:15:

“I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him” (Geneses 18:18).

My guy, you will agree with me that the God that sent Moses is very much different from the god that sent MO because the words that MO spoke and issued in the quran is completely at variance with the one Moses's God spoke. For instance, Moses' God says :Love your neighbour as yourself, MO's god says, you must subjugate anybody who deoes not venerate islam

mdsocks:
The Prophet Muhammad came with a message to the whole world, and from them, the Jews. All, including the Jews, must [/b]accept his prophethood, and this is supported by the following words:

“The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken.” (Deuteronomy 18:15)

To start with, these are facts from the bible that prophecies the coming of Prophet Muhammad

That [b]must is the guaranty for taking lives abi? Your life-straw is not strog enough. It shows your attempt to rechristen Islam and cloak it with a good dress. No matter how hard you try, your very own quran condems your prophet and his works.

mdsocks:
thanks very much, but rather i will invite you to Islam (The religion of peace) and leave a religion which can't ven prove the authenticity of the book they follow,

If you put down the bible claiming it can prove its own authenticity, then it is a big slap on MO and the writers of the quran for authenticating what they could substantiate. They probably had their intellects warped then

God help you.

@cgift

I came in because I read my name therein.

Okay more comparisons using the reverred texts of the two religions exclusively:

Okay

Prophecy:

First, the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus wre clearly prophesied in the Old Testament (OT) accorsing to the New Testament (NT).

Please can I have some from the OT?

Sevral examples will siffice. Micah 5:2 gives us the very name of the town in which the MEssaih would be born.

Can you please post the verse for all to read?

On the day Christ died, no less than 33 OT prophecies were fulfilled.

I do not need 30 but give me some please

The coming of Christ was preceeded by the coming of John th Bpatist according to Isaiah 40 and Malachi 4.

Let us all read it together. Let for me, I have up to 4 versions at home but please post the full verse for the benefit of those that do not have.

What do we have for Muhammad: a start contrast, nothing, nobody prophesied his coming not even soothsayers No OT or NT prophets. The man is just no where to be found!

Did you read your bible very well. Have you seen the Aramaic version of the bible?

Births:

The birth of JEsus was miraculous in that He was conceived by the Holy Spirit in the womb of virgin Mary. The Quran and orthodox Islam fully accepts this. It is only in modern times that we find HERETICAL muslims groups who deny and ridicule the virgin birth. Yes I call them heretical because they go against their reverred texts.
What do we hear aout MO: he was the product of semen!

Is Jesus the only one with special. Have you read about Adam or Melchisedek that has no beginning nor end?

A Sinful MO:
Where is it in the quran that MO was sinless? In Sura 18:110, MO was commanded by allah: Say, I am but a man like yourselves. Sura 40:55, Allah asks MO to ask for the forgiveness of his sins?

Is Jesus not a man. Biblical you may say he is God but I have some questions for you if you are ready concerning his deity. Do you really understand the above quoted verse?

Sura 48:1,2,

Lo! We have given thee,
(O Mohammad) signal victory,
that Allah may forgive thee of thy sin,
that which is past and that which is to come,
and may perfect his favour unto thee, and guide thee on a right path.

Do you understand the above verse please? Let me know so as to enlighten you.

MO was full of all sorts of evil vices and guiles.

Do you want me to dig deep into both the old and new testament. Hope you know that Jesus is also God of the OT and NT


Can I have your proof?

What do we have of Jesus, no sin! John said, behold the Lamb of God, in whom there is no guile. . When before Pilat and Herod, they had to invent charges as they could not find a single sin against Him.

Really, was he sinless? Have you traced the generation of Jesus through incest? ;DWonders shall never end o.

On Beauty of Speech:

When you study the speeches of Jesus as given in the Gospels, for xample, the Sermon on the Mount, you would find that Jesus was a very great speaker. Even his nemies had to confess that no man ever spoke as He spoke.

Then I will supply you the Quotes and the sermon of the prophet too. You didnt make reference to his words in OT

Of MO: All you see are estatic, confused speeches and nothing outstanding. Nothing matches the beauty, substance, or style of the way that Jesus preached.

Are you sure of what you are saying ? Do I make reference to confuse speeches in the Gospels?

A High Moral Example:

Th way Jesus lived and was willing to di for sinners has given us a high moral xample to follow.

You amuse me a lot o. Die for sinner ke when he was afraid to die. It got to a stage that he couldnt walk openly because they wanted to kill him. Do you know that he begged God not to let him die and you are here saying that he was willing to die. Do you read your bible at all?

MO nko? A lifstyle lower than that of a beast that you would deem as immoral and completely unjustly.

You know that he no fear death even the angel was afraid to take his death but what of Jesus, he begged, begged and begged to the extent that his sweat were like blood. He should have commanded death now. Do you need proof from OT on the attrocities committed by God Jesus? I still need you proof on your allegation


K

ill

ing or Robbing:

Jesus never killed or robbed anyone. According to the quran, MO killed, maimed and robbed.

He never killed. Are you referring to God of the OT OR NT? I still need your evidence on your allegation please

Coercion:

Christ never used physical violence to force people to believe His message or accept Him as the Messaiah. As a matter of fact, when Peter (erroneously called the first pope) took out his swords, Jesus told him to put it back into its sheath that physical violence was not the way of His kingdom (See Matt. 26:51-54). What do we have of MO?

Brother, are you sure of all you are typing? Do we dig into the OT AND NT please?

On Taking Another Man's Wife:

Jesus did not do this. Mohammad had 16 wives, 2 slaves or concubines and 4 other women who just gave themselves to satisfy his lewd sexual desires.

Do you know the reason for the above?

Very many mor jare. I no fit type again.

Oya begin type please


Babs, if you are true to yourself, forget the staks you hav in Islam already and seek salvation in Christ Jesus alone. He will save you and forgiv you all your sins.

I am very true to myself. You know that I was in the dark and would never go back to it

ROFL.
Mo is now in the corrupted bible?

@Nwando

ROFL.
Mo is now in the corrupted bible?

So you know that your bible is corrupted?

You can't have it both ways you know.

The Koran tells you to ask the Christians and Jews when in doubt.
The same Koran says the Bible is corrupted.
When did that happen,before Allah said the above or after.

How can Allah sanction the Old and new testament and yet allowed it to be corrupted only for allah to produce a plagiarised haphazard version,threw in a few eastern mystics and sex and called it the Koran.
What happened to Allah's sanctioned Torah and Injil?
You see how unreliable allah is.

Then in all the Bibles corruption,somehow Muslims can find Muhammad hidden in it's corrupted pages?
Wonders shall never end

@Nwando

You can't have it both ways you know.

Really?

The Koran tells you to ask the Christians and Jews when in doubt.

Can I have the verse posted here please?

The same Koran says the Bible is corrupted.

Sure corrupted .

When did that happen,before Allah said the above or after.

Are you confused?

How can Allah sanction the Old and new testament and yet allowed it to be corrupted only for allah to produce a plagiarised haphazard version,threw in a few eastern mystics and sex and called it the Koran.
What happened to Allah's sanctioned Torah and Injil?
You see how unreliable allah is.

Do you need response to your post

Then in all the Bibles corruption,somehow Muslims can find Muhammad hidden in it's corrupted pages?
Wonders shall never end

It seems you are confused, please let me know so that I will help you out

Blabs787 is a good example of the usual muslim tactics of playing musical chairs with the truth.

are we surprised?
Ist class in the Jihad of al taquiyyah

mdsocks is trying to compare Moses and Mohammed? Beyond the fact that both of them could have been playfully nicknamed MO by their childhood friends both are stark opposites. For as far as the east is from the west so far hath Moses been removed from Mohammed.

Show me where mohammed used a mere rod and staff to chase away the meccans!

LOL@MO.
good point.

Moses got a call from God in the burning bush,Muhammad had epileptic fits and heard voices,some almost convinced him to commit suicide and more than 3 times he almost jumped off a cliff.

he should have just jumped,today Oluwatoyin in Gombe would have been playing with her babies

babs787:
@cgift

I came in because I read my name therein.

Welcome

babs787:
Please can I have some from the OT?

Birth, Life, Death, Resurrection :
Isaiah 9:6 [/b]For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
[b]Isaiah 11:1-7 ¶And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: (Read the rest yourself)
Micah 5:1-2 Marshal your troops, O city of troops, for a siege is laid against us. They will strike Israel's ruler on the cheek with a rod. 2 "But you, Bethlehem [/b]Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."
[b]Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

Isaiah 53:3 He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Zechariah 11:12-13 I told them, "If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it." So they paid me thirty pieces of silver. 13 And the LORD said to me, "Throw it to the potter"--the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver [/b]and threw them into the house of the LORD to the potter
[b]Isaiah 50:6 I offered my back to those who beat me, my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard; I did not hide my face from mocking and spitting.
Zechariah 12:10"And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

Psalms 22:16 Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, t[b]hey have pierced my hands and my feet.[/b]
Psalms 22:18 [/b]They divide my garments among them and [b]cast lots for my clothing.

Isaiah 53:12 [/b]Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

[b]Psalms 34:20 [/b]he protects all his bones, not one of them will be broken.
Isa.53:7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. (Ps.38:13-14)
[b]Malachi 3:1 "See, I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come," says the LORD Almighty.

Permit me stop at these for now. Counter those scriptures and prove to us that they are not prophecies about Jesus. If you also want me to give you scriptures for their fulfilment in the New Testament, its only a request away.

babs787:
Did you read your bible very well. Have you seen the Aramaic version of the bible?

Aramaic version? Please post it lets see the fraud that your people have invented. You would agree with me that we do not serve the same God so i wonder why when God says, this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased in the bible, yur own allah is saying he has no son through your 'prophet' called MO. If its same God, He wont contradict himself. So, bringing allah into the bible is false. They should have retained God in the Aramaic translation. Christ the architect of the New Convenant, never claimed lives - He rather gives life. He can give you life too.

babs787:
Is Jesus the only one with special. Have you read about Adam or Melchisedek that has no beginning nor end?

These things are too much for you to understand. I thought you wanted to scribble in MO's name that he was special when he outrightly finished himself with his own mouth that he was just a mere man! MO that was not sure of his so-called call as a prophet whether na angel, or angels or allah himslf of whatever called him!

babs787:
Is Jesus not a man. Biblical you may say he is God but I have some questions for you if you are ready concerning his deity. Do you really understand the above quoted verse?

Bring your questions on! I know certainly they would be too esoteric for you.

babs787:
Do you understand the above verse please? Let me know so as to enlighten you.

What other meaning dos it have order than that allah may forgive his numerous sins!

babs787:
Do you want me to dig deep into both the old and new testament. Hope you know that Jesus is also God of the OT and NT

May be in your aramaic bible

babs787:

Really, was he sinless? Have you traced the generation of Jesus through incest? ;DWonders shall never end o.

Tell me the sin He (personally) committed. I'm waiting. If you like be quoting the sin of David or rahab . I am not quoting the sins that MO's father committed or his mother. I have told you the ones he committed but you would not call it sin anyway because your 'unholy' prophet must not be tamed sinful . I guess snatching is adopted son's wife is morally right because the 'prophet' is unquestionable

babs787:
Then I will supply you the Quotes and the sermon of the prophet too. You didnt make reference to his words in OT

Whose words? The sermon of your prophet on the other hand is demeaning to deep intellectual discourse and sound reason please.

babs787:
Are you sure of what you are saying ? Do I make reference to confuse speeches in the Gospels?

Permission granted

babs787:
You amuse me a lot o. Die for sinner ke when he was afraid to die. It got to a stage that he couldnt walk openly because they wanted to kill him. Do you know that he begged God not to let him die and you are here saying that he was willing to die. Do you read your bible at all?

If he wasn't willing to die, he should have dangled swords like MO

babs787:
You know that he no fear death even the angel was afraid to take his death but what of Jesus, he begged, begged and begged to the extent that his sweat were like blood. He should have commanded death now. Do you need proof from OT on the attrocities committed by God Jesus? I still need you proof on your allegation

The mysteries of the gospel will always confuse your mind. He was God-Man; he felt what man felt though h carried the attributes of God. Its too deep for you and you can never understand it from a natural perspective. He had the power to command death: He said it himself in Matthew 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
He just knew his mission and played along but the thought of 'playing along' all the suffering as a man was scary.

babs787:
He never killed. Are you referring to God of the OT OR NT? I still need your evidence on your allegation please
Brother, are you sure of all you are typing? Do we dig into the OT AND NT please?

Keep confusing yourself. The architect of christainity never killed to spread his message. Persuasion, diligence, prayers, works of love was all that was put to use in spreading the message, not the sword!

babs787:
Do you know the reason for the above?

Lust! Lust!! Lust!!! The guy was sure smarter than his contemporaries He restricted them to 4 wives but he himslef took 22

babs787:
I am very true to myself. You know that I was in the dark and would never go back to it

Which dark? Where you once a christian if that is what you refer to as your own dark? Just asking!

@#cgift



Quote from: babs787
Please can I have some from the OT?

Birth, Life, Death, Resurrection :
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Let me break the verse for you for better understanding.



Government shall be on his shoulder


Did jesus ever rule his people? He was never allowed.
Was he king?


John 18v33-37: , then pilate entered into the judgment hall again and called jesus and said unto him, 'art thou the king of the jews'? Jesus answered, "my KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD. if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight that I should not be delivered to the jews BUT NOW IS MY KINGDOM NOT FROM THENCE.Pilate therefore said unto him, 'art thou A KING THEN?' Jesus answered, 'thou sayest that I am a king,

He was never king and he never ruled, as a result, the above prophesy is not for him.


Wonderful

He was not the only one to be accorded the word 'wonderful' .All prophets are wonderful. They all came with miracles and we learnt that Jesus said he couldnt do anything by himself

John 5v30: , i can of mine do nothing. etc


So the prophecy is not for him.



Counsellor.

The prophesy is not for him as we read jesus telling his disciples that he needed to go so as allow room for the COMFORTER TO COME. (john 16v5-7).

He was never allowed to talk, as a result of this, he told them that it was necessary for him to go so that the comforter would come (the last prophet) and 'when he come, he would tell you all things and guide you into all truth'.
Jesus was never a counsellor.


The Mighty God

He was not the only one being referred to as God. Mind you, small 'g' is supposed to be used just like in John 1v1. Moses too was made god for Pharaoh. If you don't know, one of the thieves crucificted together with jesus is called JESUS BARABAS. meaning that he was another god. Jesus was never a God and will never be.


The Prince of Peace.

Is jesus really prince of peace? lets read the below verses

Mathew 10v34: 'do not think that I HAVE COME TO MAKE PEACE ON EARTH? I HAVE NOT COME TO BRING PEACE BUT A SWORD!!!!!!. For I have come to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER.


Luke 12v49: ' I CAME TO CAST FIRE UPON THE EARTH AND WOULD THAT IT WERE ALREADY KINDLED, DO YOU THINK THAT I HAVE COME TO GIVE PEACE ON EARTH? NO. I TELL YOU, BUT RATHER DIVISION FOR FROM HENCEFORTH in one house there will be five divided, three against two, and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother.

Isaiah 11:1-7 ¶And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: (Read the rest yourself).

Yes and please how do that make reference to Jesus?

Micah 5:1-2 Marshal your troops, O city of troops, for a siege is laid against us. They will strike Israel's ruler on the cheek with a rod.

2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."

Was Jesus Israel's ruler? Did he ever for one day rule Israel?

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Brother, how does this refer to Jesus? God was talking to Adam and Eve because they ate the forbidden fruit. Haba bros

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him[b] Immanuel[/b].

I will check for the highlighted words in the versions with me and get in touch. but mind you, you didnt give me the one that refers to his death and ressurection.

Isaiah 53:3 He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Same as above please but still no verse referring to his death and ressurection.

Zechariah 11:12-13 I told them, "If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it." So they paid me thirty pieces of silver. 13 And the LORD said to me, "Throw it to the potter"--the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the LORD to the potter.

I will get in touch soon.


Isa

iah 50:6 I offered my back to those who beat me, my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard; I did not hide my face from mocking and spitting.

The above is for David and not Jesus

Zechariah 12:10"And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

I will get in touch soon

Psalms 22:16 Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet.
Psalms 22:18 They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.

Read from the beginning. It was David speaking about those that do not believed in him.It has no relationship with Jesus. It is because you see the God's royal son, David was not the only being referred to as God's son. we have lots of of examples in your bible. Read the above verse very well, do the verse in any have anything to do with Jesus? Did jesus ever destroy the jews that didnt do his wish, he couldnt do anything when he was accused of proclaiming himself as king and also not allowing Jews to pay tribute to Caesar.

Did he get annoy to the extent of destroying the jews and were the jews destroyed? Nothing like that

Brother, the above speaks of nobody else than David. And the verse is in accordance with the war fought then.

Isaiah 53:12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

A question for you here please. What spoil did Jesus divide?

Psalms 34:20 he protects all his bones, not one of them will be broken.

Good.

Isa.53:7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. (Ps.38:13-14)

Brother are you sure that Jesus didnt say anything? I am asking you the question so I will know what to post later with reference to those that I will check up.

Malachi 3:1 "See, I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come," says the LORD Almighty.

Brother, how does this refer to Jesus? It could have been other prophets too because his name was not mentioned, besides, most christians do not accept Jesus to be messenger of God,

Permit me stop at these for now. Counter those scriptures and prove to us that they are not prophecies about Jesus.

I have countered them and will supply you additional note later. You would have read yourself that they are not for Jesus.

If you also want me to give you scriptures for their fulfilment in the New Testament, its only a request away.

Sure brother, hope you are aware that the OT prophecies have been countered so you should read and re-read any so called prophecy that you may want to give me referring to Jesus

Aramaic version? Please post it lets see the fraud that your people have invented.

Funny bros. Do you know that that is the language of Jesus. Have you verified the Greek bible?
Startling as it may seem, at one time the word read "Periklytos" and "Paraklytos", which is the name for "Muhammad" in Greek. Surprising? It should not be because both words mean "Praised" or "Celebrate," the meaning and character of the man Muhammad.

For the complete explanation by Aramaic Bible Society please visit:

http://www.aramaic.org/PARAVLETE.html

This proved what has been said by Qur'an:

Those who follow the apostle the unlettered prophet (prophet Muhammad - p.b.u.h) whom they find mentioned in their own (Scriptures); in the law (Torah) and the Gospel" (Qur'an 7:157)


According to Holy Qur'an the name of prophet Muhammad or Ahmad (p.b.u.h) is mention by name in the Gospel (Injeel):


"And when Jesus son of Mary said: O Children of Israel! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah unto you, confirming that which was (revealed) before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a messenger who cometh after me, whose name is Ahmad (the Praised One)." (Qur'an 61:6)


If you refer to Song of Solomon in Hebrew scripture, the name 'Muhammad' also mention there, please read Song of Solomon 5:16, it looks like this:

"Hikow mamtaqiym wkulow [b]mahamadiy[/b]m zeh dowdiy wzeh ree`iy bnowt yruushaalaaim."

You would agree with me that we do not serve the same God so i wonder why when God says, this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased in the bible, yur own allah is saying he has no son through your 'prophet' called MO. If its same God, He wont contradict himself. So, bringing allah into the bible is false. They should have retained God in the Aramaic translation. Christ the architect of the New Convenant, never claimed lives - He rather gives life. He can give you life too.

Very good, I think we are beginning to treat the deity of Jesus. Now please what proof do you have to show the voice is that of God?



Quote from: babs787
Is Jesus the only one with special. Have you read about Adam or Melchisedek that has no beginning nor end?

These things are too much for you to understand. I thought you wanted to scribble in MO's name that he was special when he outrightly finished himself with his own mouth that he was just a mere man! MO that was not sure of his so-called call as a prophet whether na angel, or angels or allah himslf of whatever called him!

He is special and will always be. Now bros, do you need biblical reference as to the prophecies referring to Muhammed? So if Jesus is not a man, please who is he? It seems we vare gradually going into the deity of Jesus. Muhammed is not sure and he will intercede for you all on that. Jesus and others will be there but Allah will give only him the power to intercede.

Bring your questions on! I know certainly they would be too esoteric for you.

I will serve you questions on the deity soon?

Quote from: babs787
Do you want me to dig deep into both the old and new testament. Hope you know that Jesus is also God of the OT and NT

May be in your aramaic bible

Are you saying that God of the OT is different from that of NT?

Quote from: babs787

Really, was he sinless? Have you traced the generation of Jesus through incest? ;DWonders shall never end o.

Tell me the sin He (personally) committed. I'm waiting. If you like be quoting the sin of David or rahab . I am not quoting the sins that MO's father committed or his mother. I have told you the ones he committed but you would not call it sin anyway because your 'unholy' prophet must not be tamed sinful . I guess snatching is adopted son's wife is morally right because the 'prophet' is unquestionable.

Before I do that, please is God of the OT different from NT?

Quote from: babs787
Then I will supply you the Quotes and the sermon of the prophet too. You didnt make reference to his words in OT



Whose words? The sermon of your prophet on the other hand is demeaning to deep intellectual discourse and sound reason please.

Quote from: babs787
Are you sure of what you are saying ? Do I make reference to confuse speeches in the Gospels?


Permission granted

All will be served very soon.

Quote from: babs787
You amuse me a lot o. Die for sinner ke when he was afraid to die. It got to a stage that he couldnt walk openly because they wanted to kill him. Do you know that he begged God not to let him die and you are here saying that he was willing to die. Do you read your bible at all?


If he wasn't willing to die, he should have dangled swords like MO

No he wasnt, did you read my above post very well and when you are through, I will serve you verses on same

The mysteries of the gospel will always confuse your mind. He was God-Man; he felt what man felt though h carried the attributes of God. Its too deep for you and you can never understand it from a natural perspective. He had the power to command death: He said it himself in Matthew 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
He just knew his mission and played along but the thought of 'playing along' all the suffering as a man was scary.

Never mind, I will give you questions on the deity but I dont want to divert this thread hence my holding on

Quote from: babs787
He never killed. Are you referring to God of the OT OR NT? I still need your evidence on your allegation please
Brother, are you sure of all you are typing? Do we dig into the OT AND NT please?

Keep confusing yourself. The architect of christainity never killed to spread his message. Persuasion, diligence, prayers, works of love was all that was put to use in spreading the message, not the sword!

I asked a question above please, dont ignore

Quote from: babs787
I am very true to myself. You know that I was in the dark and would never go back to it



Which dark? Where you once a christian if that is what you refer to as your own dark? Just asking!

So you have not read my story about my journey from darkness (christianity) to light (Islam). If you care to know I was a christian but do not like talking about it unless you demand for it.

babs,

The reason why I dont think I want to stay long on this discussion is that
1) I have seen that depsite being greeted with facts about a thing, you tend to be mischievous in deliberately circumventing the truth and ignoring what stares you in the face
2) The bible is not like the quran which hardly latches in on spirituality. It is largely literal and connotes no deep spiritual meanings. The bible more often than not carries prophecies rgarding what will happen in the future. Very many have already been fulfilled while they are more at the verge of fulfilment.

On these premises, I really do not see you understanding sevral quotes from teh scripture because they would not appeal anything to the natural mind.

To some of your concerns:

babs787:


Let me break the verse for you for better understanding.
Government shall be on his shoulder
Did jesus ever rule his people? He was never allowed.
Was he king?

John 18v33-37: , then pilate entered into the judgment hall again and called jesus and said unto him, 'art thou the king of the jews'? Jesus answered, "my KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD. if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight that I should not be delivered to the jews BUT NOW IS MY KINGDOM NOT FROM THENCE.Pilate therefore said unto him, 'art thou A KING THEN?' Jesus answered, 'thou sayest that I am a king, He was never king and he never ruled, as a result, the above prophesy is not for him.

When Jesus said "My kingdom is not of this world" you should have asked: was He saying being not of this world (physical) it should be spiritual? Then why has Isaiah prophesied that? You emphasised on "Government" Isaiah 9:7 Of the increase of his government [/b]and peace there shall be no end, but have you taken time to see the latter end of that verse which says [b]there shall be no end?. What earthly kingdom shall be without end? If Isaiah meant an earthly kingdom, (which was not intended in the first place), he would not have added the everlasting nature of Jesus' government in the prophesy. While in Isaiah 7:14 [/b]Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel., talks about his birth, [b]Isaiah 9 : 6+ [/b]talks about the nature of His Kingship. At teh end of things, Jesus will establish his Kingdom proper on the earth.

babs787:

[b]Wonderful

He was not the only one to be accorded the word 'wonderful' .All prophets are wonderful. They all came with miracles [/b]and [b]we learnt that Jesus said he couldnt do anything by himself

John 5v30: , i can of mine do nothing. etc

So the prophecy is not for him.

I hear you. if they all came with miracles, please be honest to remove MO's name from the lot cos w all know he was clueless when it comes to the workings of miracles!

babs787:

The Mighty God

He was not the only one being referred to as God. Mind you, small 'g' is supposed to be used just like in John 1v1. Moses too was made god for Pharaoh. If you don't know, one of the thieves crucificted together with jesus is called JESUS BARABAS. meaning that he was another god. Jesus was never a God and will never be.

I can now see the stuff you were made of when you claimed you were in christianity. So, because someone else was named Jesus now meant he was another god? Like i stated i nthe ground rules, somethings are beyond your comprehension. Mind you, it is not the name "Jesus" that ascribed the title of the Mighty God to him. Jesus has called us small gods too so, He is the Mighty God.

babs787:

The Prince of Peace.

Is jesus really prince of peace? lets read the below verses

Mathew 10v34: 'do not think that I HAVE COME TO MAKE PEACE ON EARTH? I HAVE NOT COME TO BRING PEACE BUT A SWORD!!!!!!. For I have come to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER.


Luke 12v49: ' I CAME TO CAST FIRE UPON THE EARTH AND WOULD THAT IT WERE ALREADY KINDLED, DO YOU THINK THAT I HAVE COME TO GIVE PEACE ON EARTH? NO. I TELL YOU, BUT RATHER DIVISION FOR FROM HENCEFORTH in one house there will be five divided, three against two, and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother.

You should have just asked for explanation on certain things that seem so insrutable to you rather than just catgorically post things that may present you as being unlettered or forcefully looking for surviving straws (feeble ones at that).

What do you use in judging a peaceful demeanour? Words or Actions? If MO had said that for instance in the quran, everyone would have known that he meant literal war and thirst for blood because we have seen his insatiable appetite for haemoglobin! Jesus said it but did he ever instruct any of his disciples to go on rampage killing and maiming?

On that basis, you whould agree with me that Jesus was not referring to public mayhems or massacres. Just to help you a bit, the verse : Mathew 10v34: 'do not think that I HAVE COME TO MAKE PEACE ON EARTH? I HAVE NOT COME TO BRING PEACE BUT A SWORD!!!!!!. For I have come to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER. ony implies that the msssage of the gospel will make people have differing opinions. Conversion of a son to Christianity from Islam would naturally ignite the ire of a father who is a muslim. That is just a sample.

babs787:

Yes and please how do that make reference to Jesus?

Was Jesus Israel's ruler? Did he ever for one day rule Israel?

I have clarified that above that He never intended to rule from an earthly throne but to become the King of the throne of our hearts. Jesse was one of the fathers of David.

babs787:

Brother, how does this refer to Jesus? God was talking to Adam and Eve because they ate the forbidden fruit. Haba bros

Oh! To Adam & Eve? i am not surprised at that shot anyway. But as i did state earlier, it was prophetic of the work of salvation that God had in stock for mankind. The God of the christians is a proactive one and already knew what to do immediately after the fall.

Now tell me, how did Adam and Eve fulfill that promise if I may ask?

babs787:

I will check for the highlighted words in the versions with me and get in touch. but mind you, you didnt give me the one that refers to his death and ressurection.

Well, the truth is you will always look at many of them with a carnal eye and never come to terms with their spiritual import. Well let me help you wih just one hoping you will comprehend: Psalms 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

babs787:

Read from the beginning. It was David speaking about those that do not believed in him.It has no relationship with Jesus. It is because you see the God's royal son, David was not the only being referred to as God's son. we have lots of of examples in your bible. Read the above verse very well, do the verse in any have anything to do with Jesus? Did jesus ever destroy the jews that didnt do his wish, he couldnt do anything when he was accused of proclaiming himself as king and also not allowing Jews to pay tribute to Caesar.

Did he get annoy to the extent of destroying the jews and were the jews destroyed? Nothing like that

Brother, the above speaks of nobody else than David. And the verse is in accordance with the war fought then.

Psalms 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. Where did you read from that they pierced David's hands and feet if that scripture referred to David?

babs787:

A question for you here please. What spoil did Jesus divide?

What spoil? Good. Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

babs787:

Good.

Thanks for accepting Psalm 34:20 that none of his bones where broken

babs787:

how does this refer to Jesus? It could have been other prophets too because his name was not mentioned, besides, most christians do not accept Jesus to be messenger of God,

Malachi 3:1 ¶Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me:

The messenger was not referring to Jesusbut John the Baptist whom the biblee says would come to prepare the way of the Lord

babs787:

If you refer to Song of Solomon in Hebrew scripture, the name 'Muhammad' also mention there, please read Song of Solomon 5:16, it looks like this:

"Hikow mamtaqiym wkulow mahamadiy[/b]m zeh dowdiy wzeh ree`iy bnowt yruushaalaaim."

How does this help your cause? This is SOS 5:16 from KJV
Song of Songs 5:16 His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem.
How does this add a feather to your cause?

babs787:

Quote from: babs787
Is Jesus the only one with special. Have you read about Adam or Melchisedek that has no beginning nor end?

He is special and will always be. Now bros, do you need biblical reference as to the prophecies referring to Muhammed? So if Jesus is not a man, please who is he? It seems we vare gradually going into the deity of Jesus. [b]Muhammed is not sure and he will intercede for you all on that.

Did you mean MO is interceding for you? Where is that in your quran? . That man's bones is long decomposed Dont re-shape his identity. He said he was not sure of allah will do with him after his death so is that the person interceeding for you?

Jesus and others will be there but Allah will give only him the power to intercede.

babs787:

Are you saying that God of the OT is different from that of NT?

Quote from: babs787

Really, was he sinless? Have you traced the generation of Jesus through incest? ;DWonders shall never end o.

Did Jesus himself commit any sins? Answer yes or no please.

babs787:

Before I do that, please is God of the OT different from NT?

Emphatic NO!

babs787:

So you have not read my story about my journey from darkness (christianity) to light (Islam). If you care to know I was a christian but do not like talking about it unless you demand for it.

I would not mind you opening a new thread for that.

@cgift

babs,

The reason why I don't think I want to stay long on this discussion is that
1) I have seen that depsite being greeted with facts about a thing, you tend to be mischievous in deliberately circumventing the truth and ignoring what stares you in the face.

What truth have I circumvented?

2) The bible is not like the quran which hardly latches in on spirituality. It is largely literal and connotes no deep spiritual meanings. The bible more often than not carries prophecies rgarding what will happen in the future. Very many have already been fulfilled while they are more at the verge of fulfilment.

Brother, as the bible is having prophecies referring to Jesus, so it has concerning Muhammed and if you are ready, I will provide proof from your bible.

On these premises, I really do not see you understanding sevral quotes from the scripture because they would not appeal anything to the natural mind.

They would surely if applied sensible and not forcing what is not for Jesus on him.

To some of your concerns:

Ok

When Jesus said "My kingdom is not of this world" you should have asked: was He saying being not of this world (physical) it should be spiritual? Then why has Isaiah prophesied that? You emphasised on "Government" Isaiah 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, but have you taken time to see the latter end of that verse which says there shall be no end?. What earthly kingdom shall be without end? If Isaiah meant an earthly kingdom, (which was not intended in the first place), he would not have added the everlasting nature of Jesus' government in the prophesy. While in Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel., talks about his birth, Isaiah 9 : 6+ talks about the nature of His Kingship. At the end of things, Jesus will establish his Kingdom proper on the earth.

You amuse me with your post. You claimed that the word' government' is for heavenly or rather spiritual government, please if I may ask you, what spiritual government are you referring to. Let us be sincere, if you had foillowed the tone of the verses, you would have noticed that the verse is referring to present issue and not as you may thinking hence unto us a child is born, government wil be on his shoulder, meaning that he would his people here on earth and not as you are trying to interprete it differently. Lastly, please what kingdom will he establish on earth? Make me understand so that I will know how to come in

I hear you. if they all came with miracles, please be honest to remove MO's name from the lot because w all know he was clueless when it comes to the workings of miracles!

So you agree that the verse is not for Jesus either?

I can now see the stuff you were made of when you claimed you were in christianity. So, because someone else was named Jesus now meant he was another god? Like i stated i nthe ground rules, somethings are beyond your comprehension. Mind you, it is not the name "Jesus" that ascribed the title of the Mighty God to him. Jesus has called us small gods too so, He is the Mighty God.

My denouncing christianity has nothing to do with this debate and if you want to change that, you provide your proof and I will re-join you.You drew me into this you should be prepared to face the task. In what way is he God?

You should have just asked for explanation on certain things that seem so insrutable to you rather than just catgorically post things that may present you as being unlettered or forcefully looking for surviving straws (feeble ones at that).

You should have done that bros .

What do you use in judging a peaceful demeanour? Words or Actions? If MO had said that for instance in the quran, everyone would have known that he meant literal war and thirst for blood because we have seen his insatiable appetite for haemoglobin! Jesus said it but did he ever instruct any of his disciples to go on rampage killing and maiming?

But come to think of it, why did he say that, I need your explanation and please is God of the OT different from NT?

On that basis, you whould agree with me that Jesus was not referring to public mayhems or massacres. Just to help you a bit, the verse : Mathew 10v34: 'do not think that I HAVE COME TO MAKE PEACE ON EARTH? I HAVE NOT COME TO BRING PEACE BUT A SWORD!!!!!!. For I have come to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER. ony implies that the msssage of the gospel will make people have differing opinions. Conversion of a son to Christianity from Islam would naturally ignite the ire of a father who is a muslim. That is just a sample.

my question goes again: Is God Jesus of the OT different from NT

I have clarified that above that He never intended to rule from an earthly throne but to become the King of the throne of our hearts. Jesse was one of the fathers of David.

Brother please dont give me that, I was once like you so you cant spoon feed me. The verse is making reference to earthly government and not the one you are laying claim to. You should have noticed from the tone of the verse

Oh! To Adam & Eve? i am not surprised at that shot anyway. But as i did state earlier, it was prophetic of the work of salvation that God had in stock for mankind. The God of the christians is a proactive one and already knew what to do immediately after the fall.

. Not in line with our discussion bros

Now tell me, how did Adam and Eve fulfill that promise if I may ask?

From biblical view or Islamic view?

Well, the truth is you will always look at many of them with a carnal eye and never come to terms with their spiritual import. Well let me help you wih just one hoping you will comprehend: Psalms 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Sure its for Jesus

Psalms 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. Where did you read from that they pierced David's hands and feet if that scripture referred to David?

Read from the begining and you will understand that the verse was referring to David



See my question

What spoil did Jesus divide?

Your response:

Good. Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Any similarity?

The messenger was not referring to Jesusbut John the Baptist whom the biblee says would come to prepare the way of the Lord

Why muddling up things? I thought you that it was for Jesus and now you are saying that its for John the baptist again

How does this help your cause? This is SOS 5:16 from KJV
Song of Songs 5:16 His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem.
How does this add a feather to your cause?

Read again please in case you missed it This is it:


Funny bros. Do you know that that is the language of Jesus. Have you verified the Greek bible?
Startling as it may seem, at one time the word read "Periklytos" and "Paraklytos", which is the name for "Muhammad" in Greek. Surprising? It should not be because both words mean "Praised" or "Celebrate," the meaning and character of the man Muhammad.

For the complete explanation by Aramaic Bible Society please visit:

http://www.aramaic.org/PARAVLETE.html

This proved what has been said by Qur'an:

Those who follow the apostle the unlettered prophet (prophet Muhammad - p.b.u.h) whom they find mentioned in their own (Scriptures); in the law (Torah) and the Gospel" (Qur'an 7:157)


According to Holy Qur'an the name of prophet Muhammad or Ahmad (p.b.u.h) is mention by name in the Gospel (Injeel):


"And when Jesus son of Mary said: O Children of Israel! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah unto you, confirming that which was (revealed) before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a messenger who cometh after me, whose name is Ahmad (the Praised One)." (Qur'an 61:6)

Did you mean MO is interceding for you? Where is that in your quran? . That man's bones is long decomposed Dont re-shape his identity. He said he was not sure of allah will do with him after his death so is that the person interceeding for you?

Are you saying that dry bones will not rise again, have you turned to those that do not believe in life after death? Do you need proof for his intercession and the position of Jesus on that day?

Did Jesus himself commit any sins? Answer yes or no please.

But you are ignoring my question. Christians believe that Jesus is also God. So if Jesus is also God, he must have been the God of the OT then abi? So is he the same God as that of OT? Please respond and I will you show his genealogy traced to incest had by his fathers and it was from that incest that he came to being.

Emphatic NO!

Please I want to get clearer picture. Are you saying that Jesus is also God of the OT?

I would not mind you opening a new thread for that.

You want to know why I that was regarded as the blacksheep of the family became the apple of their eyes in which God touched my aged father into seeing the light of Islamic monotheism before he could enter grave.Please create a thread for that and I will follow suit.

Thanks bros

@babs787,

If you just take some time to not force your own denials as substitute for Biblical prophecies, then you would not have to be circling around issues. In the first place, you only came round trying to deny the pointers to those prophecies - not that you offered an alternative as to whom they were referring to. Let's see them:

babs787:

Government shall be on his shoulder


Did jesus ever rule his people? He was never allowed.
Was he king?


John 18v33-37: , then pilate entered into the judgment hall again and called jesus and said unto him, 'art thou the king of the jews'? Jesus answered, "my KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD. if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight that I should not be delivered to the jews BUT NOW IS MY KINGDOM NOT FROM THENCE.Pilate therefore said unto him, 'art thou A KING THEN?' Jesus answered, 'thou sayest that I am a king,

He was never king and he never ruled, as a result, the above prophesy is not for him.

Two things you would have to understand:

Jesus indeed was born a King


(a) The Wise men from the East acknowledged it so by divine revelation:

"Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews?
for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to
worship him" -- Matt. 2:2

The above was not their own idea - it was in fulfillment of an OT prophecy:

"I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him,
but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob,
and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite
the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth"
-- Numbers 24:17

Both the Star and Sceptre are in reference to the One who would be born and also rule as King. Not only so, but it says that both the Star and the sceptre would rise from God's covenant people - the Jews ('out of Jacob' and 'out of Israel').


(b) Jesus also declared that he was born King

"Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then?
Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king.
To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world,
that I should bear witness unto the truth.
Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice."
-- (John 18:37)

If you had carefully quoted the text above in full, you would seen the import of Jesus powerful statement. The expression "Thou sayest" is typical Greek colloquialism to show that the very thing that one confesses is precisely the statement of truth. It's just like saying today: "You have said it!" When Pilate asked Jesus the question, it was because that is what he had heard, and Jesus clearly affirmed that even the dreaded political figure Pilate had confessed the very same thing that they would not have confessed all through His earthly ministry!

(c) Jesus fulfillment of Prophecy Confirms His Kingship

"Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter
of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee:
He is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass,
and upon a colt the foal of an ass."
-- Zechariah 9:9

"All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken
by the prophet, saying, Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold,
thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass,
and a colt the foal of an ass." -- Matt. 21:4 & 5

There is none other that could have fulfilled this prophecy than Christ - who Himself is the salvation of the ends of the earth; and who fulfills the prophecy precisely as was given. When Muslim apologists try to deny the Biblical declarations, my simple request is that they try to offer an alternative interpretation for those texts - because it is not enough to deny them, one should then go further than the denial and then tell us WHO exactly those things were written about! Mr Babs, apart from your denials, have you carefully sought out who that porphecy was pointing to? if you can not offer something in alternate that clearly enunciates those prophecies, then your denials are simply that - DENIALS.

Look again at another prophecy, and tell us to whom it was referring: JESUS or MUHAMMAD:

Isaiah 62:11-12
"Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the world,
Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh;
behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him."

It is clear from the above that: (i) the Messiah was called a name here: "thy salvation" - for He indeed was the salvation of His people Israel, as well as the salvation of the entire world; (b) it is first to His people ('the daughter of Zion', which another description of the Jews) that Christ first came to. Upon their rejection of Him (as prophesied - Isaiah 53:3 - "rejected of men", He went to the Cross (again fulfilling prophecy - Psalm 22:16 >> "they pierced my hands and my feet" . . . and He rose again from the dead (fulfilling prophesy - Acts 2:30-31, cf Psa. 2).


(d) Whether they knew it or not, the mulititudes confessed Him as KING

"And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of
the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples
began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all
the mighty works that they had seen;
Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name
of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest."
-- Luke 19:37-38

This is significant because when He first prophesied that they would utter confessions of praise to Him shortly before they derided and crucified Him, they were filled with wrath in stark unbelief and thought it could never come to pass (see Luke 4:23, 28 and 7:16)! Now just a few moments before He would be arrested, they started glorifying Him - and the second part of His prophesy to them would surely be fulfilled before their very eyes.

(e) Even at Death, His Executors could not deny His Kingship

"And a superscription also was written over him in letters
of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew,
THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS." - - Luke 23:38

"And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross.
And the writing was,
JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not,
The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.
Pilate answered, What I have written I have written. "
- - John 19:19, 21-22

In the face of all this tomes of evidence for the KINGSHIP of Jesus Christ, it would not be enough for the Muslim apologists to DENY them by offering excuses here and there with silly questions. We want them to go one step and explicate WHO excatly was being spoken of in those prophesies, and to WHOM they applied when they were being fulfilled. If they do not know and have nothing to say, then such Muslim denials are limp in the face of such evidence.

The Qur'an tells Muslims to believe in the prophesies of the Bible -

Sura 2:285
The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him
from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth
in Allah, His angels, His books, and His messengers.
"We make no distinction (they say) between one and another
of His messengers." And they say: "We hear, and we obey:
(We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end
of all journeys."

If that were true and not another hypocrisy of Muslims, we are asking them to please answer the following simple straightforward questions:

[list][li]if those prophesies do not apply to Jesus, to WHOM then do they apply?[/li][/list]

[list][li]If your Qur'an asks you to NOT deny the biblical prophets, what do you say to their prophesies that show that those matters are pointing to the Messiah and not to Muhammad?[/li][/list]

[list][li]If you deny the prophesies, why are you ignoring the same message that Jesus clearly declared He was BORN as King; and yet you want to force yourselves into believing that Muhammad is found in the same Bible you reject?[/li][/list]

[list][li]Where did Allah ask you Muslims to ridicle and attack the Bible the same way you have been doing? [please don't give me excuses - I want clear verses from the Qur'an, thank you][/li][/list]


We are so used to the usual Islamic games of denying everything found in the Bible, never offering alternatives for what they deny (because they don't know and do not want to face up to the facts), and then attack the bible contrary to what the Qur'an teaches! If you go on denying the OT prophecies, when then is the use trying to believe such verses as Sura 2:285 where Allah says the direct opposite to you Muslims?

If you've got anything to share, please do so. If otherwise, please ride on with the denials - it just doesn't help the cause of Islam or demonstrate any intelligence from your apologists (not to even mention their duplicity).

Cheers.

@babs787,

Rather than coming around denying issues, please carefully consider the questions in my rejoinders and proffer answers to them. It is not enough for Muslims to smake categorical denials of Biblical prophecies - they need to let us know WHO those prophecies are all about!

Cheers.

Blabs is on the verge of repentance . . . he must be thoroughly ashamed of mohammed by now. 

Lol. . . he is not near enough for conversion - the gentleman wants "PROOF" - and he has not taken the time to see that fallacies in his own denials!!

Apart from the denials of Biblical prophecies and their interpretations, I'm waiting to see his own alternative elucidation on those same prophecies.

davidylan:

Blabs is on the verge of repentance . . . he must be thoroughly ashamed of mohammed by now.

By now he should have seen that his rejoinders are rather exposing him to ridicule. Imagine what he said inresponse to my post:

babs:

Startling as it may seem, at one time the word read "Periklytos" and "Paraklytos", which is the name for "Muhammad" in Greek. Surprising? It should not be because both words mean "Praised" or "Celebrate," the meaning and character of the man Muhammad.

If he is claiming that those greek words have the same meaning as the name of MO H then is almost making me purge here because i have not seen intelligence this mortified. What is that? Does he think he is discussing with his kids in the islamic kidergaton schools? Name translations now the way to go

Now if on the otherhand you mean that those words were referring to MO and not just name translations, then the duplicity and lying nature of MO and his subjects is catching up with them. I can see that you have gone to the net to plagiarize materials written by liars; people who give you inspiration. Unfortunately, you think you are smart but that inability to put forward your own original thoughts shows how empty your shell is and why you are not worth being taken seriously.

What the Muslims have tried to do with this word is to replace the vowels as they see fit (replacing the a-a-e-o in parakletos [/b]with e-i-y-o in periklytos). Can you see how unfortunate you are? Trying to put what is not in the bible into it. This is a shame on you. In Greek, as the vowels are clearly written in all Greek texts. Where did you get the scripts or bible that uses the word [b]Periklytos? [/b]In fact the word [b]periklytos [/b]does not even appear at all in the entire Bible!

Going further, the Quran confirms that MO is not the Holy Spirit. Sura 2:97 says that Gabriel brings down the revelation, while Sura 16:102 says it is the Holy Spirit. So Muslims say that "Holy Spirit" is just another name for Gabriel. Therefore Muhammad cannot be the "Holy Spirit" and comforter who was promised by Jesus because the Holy Spirit cannot be both, Gabriel and Muhammad.

[b]So who is the parakletos?
When we read John 14:16 and 16:7, we find that Jesus predicts the specific details of the arrival and identity of the "parakletos".

First, Jesus said the parakletos is not a human being:
14:16: "he will be with you forever" (a human doesn't live forever)
14:17: "he will be the spirit of truth" (a human is not a spirit)
14:17: "the world neither sees him, " (a human is visible)
14:17: ", nor knows him" (a human would be known by others)
14:17: "and he will be in you" (a human cannot be within others)
Finally, Jesus said that the parakletos has the specific mission of pointing to Jesus:
14:26: "whom the Father will send in my name"
14:26: "will remind you everything I [Jesus] have said to you"
16:14: "He will bring glory to me [Jesus], "
There is only one being who qualifies in all these areas, the Holy Spirit!

Apart from these dubious defenses that would have sent you to jail where you putting them before a judge in the court of law due to th inconsistencies and lies, your prophet is just confusd about his call? I had asked earlir, how can we authenticate the call of MO? Is it allah who appeared to him as a human or angel gabreil or the Holy Spirit who called or is it angels (plural) that announcd his call and gave handed down the quran? Babs, its as if MO vomitted you from his mouth because you are just like him (you should be happy that you hav taken after your 'prophet'

Babs, you need to face up to real facts. Investigate facts before you post them so that you will not dent the personalities of other people bearing babs

My people, that guy's comments should just be taken with a pinch of salt. Nothing intelligent in the offerings just akin to the lack of intelligence and order lacking in his quran.

@mdsocks,

www.nairaland.com/attachments/53728_untitled_JPG63f52a6bdc5c7293e1ad65c0360c4d15

Have you carefully considered the issues you settle your persuasions on as regards comparing Moses and Muhammad? Do you realise that Muhammad does not fit the bill merely on those premises? Lol. . . let me tease you small:

Birth:

"Normal birth" - Moses
"Normal birth" - Muhammad

. . . and how many prophets did you suppose did not come into the world by "normal birth"?

~ Samuel was a prophet as well - he also came by "normal birth"
~ Isaiah was a Jewish prophet who experienced "normal birth"
~ . . . and so did numerous other prophets!

Mission:

"Prophet only" - Moses
"Prophet only" - Muhammad

. . . and how do you understand the mission of the following? --

~ Samuel
~ Isaiah
~ . . . and several other prophets!


Parents:

Apply the same for:

~ Moses
~ Isaiah
~ Samuel
~ Ezekiel
~ Daniel
~ . . . many others

Which one of them did not have "parents"?  And same pattern until you complete the criteria!


Now, if those issues matter at all as the real yardstick for who the Prophet of Deuteronomy was, then you need to think seriously. Since you have used what is common to men, let's ask a few more:

              ~ How many wives did Moses have?
                   - how many wives did Muhammad have?
               Are they therefore "the same"?


              ~ How children did Moses have?
                   - how many children did Muhammad have?
               Are they therefore "the same"?


              ~ How many father-in-law did Moses have?
                   - how many father-in-law did Muhammad have?
               Are they therefore "the same"?

Do you see how very lame are your criteria? Of course, Muslim apologists no dey ever think before they harvest other people's illiterate ideas.  If you wan to really see the issues involved, please ask a few, like:

              ~ Did Moses perform any MIRACLE?
                   - did Muhammad perform any MIRACLES?
              Are they therefore "the same"?


              ~ Did Moses speak directly (face to face) with God?
                     did Muhammad ever speak to God face to face?
              Are they therefore "the same"?


When you begin to ask serious questions, then the pieces will fit together.

Cherio.

TEDIOUS HORSE CRAP

FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT
love, joy, peace, humility

God must be saddened right now by your futile efforts to prove your intelligence and your ego on display must reak to high heavens. all these proofs for what? for whom? God?  or YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU?