₦airaland Forum

michoim:
Granting of Asylum, does that changes anything? The more IPOB depart from the shores of Nigeria the better for peace in the SE. Good riddance to bad rubbish. Is just like Bokoharam departing to Afghanistan, the better for NE Nigeria peace and security if they are not allowed re-entry to Nigeria...

Yeah, I don't get why anyone in government is complaining when it is literally their enemies running away.

Elliotwaveforec:
Are secessionists and terrorists the same? UK knows whom terrorists are; like Fulani herders and BH, not IPOB.

I thought una always say UK backs Fulani.

ThumbzTNA:
The terrorist group of Igbo has ensured free ViSA for IPOB members. What has the terrorist group in your zone done for your people?

How are they terrorists. Upon all their radical and extreme proclamations, they still haven't used violence to push their separartist agenda. So no, they aren't terrorists.

At most a Vigilante.

Arewa1stSon:
Interesting! Nothing concern me concern ipob terrorist!!

If them like make them give them grants and issue them citizenship!!

Igbos supported and fund Nnamdi KANU regardless of the fact that he destroying lives and properties!!

Some Yorubas Supported Sunday igboho and defended him regardless of the fact that he ignited a crisis that cost lives and properties!!

Now you are asking me not to support pantami? Pantami is going no where!


WHO ARE THESE SAINTS IN OUR POLITICAL SPACE?
Most were criminals that got convicted in different prisons abroad for one crime or the other.

Some of them were drug barons, fraudsters,Hitmen, some of them were human traffickers, shoplifters and that were their past lives.

These are the brand new saints that have turned into moral police in Nigeria simply because they have political power and stolen wealth to engage the so called PR experts.

But Pantami’s life today is a refined version of who he was. He was never involved in moving drugs from coast to coast, he had no single criminal record from any country he had ever visited. His political sin is that of a cleric joining politics.

Buba Marwa is nailing drug pushers to the wall with 12 inches nail!

They will soon tell us Buba Marwa was once Shekau's driver.

Rip to the innocent policemen,soldiers and civilians that lost their lives from IPOB/ESN terrorists

The news in this post, isn't it the same people that IPOB has said is not their People and not their order. That Weeks before the incident, Imo governour and MASSOB had warned that NG would send thugs pretending to be IPOB to harrase people like they did in Abuja and Benin (among other places) during EndSARS?.

And since when did ESN operate with puting Biafra flag everywhere, like they have hundreds of videos online of their operations and have never done that.

LordReed:
So what the authors said was enough to convince you?

Okay, wait.

The Author's intent is more important to know where the numbers are being used as actual numbers or as code for the supernatural or as a mix of both.

The numbers that have some significance in Jewish numerology that I can vouch for the source would be.

7 from the 7 days in Genesis to make the world.

3 from the sons of Noah/races of the world as known to the israelites.

12 from the 12 tribes of Israel.

144 is just 12 squared so this gets its numerological significance from 12.

Million there is a general trend of using million to refer to great hosts.

There are others like 300, 400-and-something etc. Which may have a numerological significance but I don't know for sure.

LordReed:
In other words what I am asking you is, what convinces you that there is a divine relationship in the numbers you are referring to, that is not in the same numbers when used in computing?

That the Authors obviously thought so and obviously were alluding to the numbers having some divine significance.

LordReed:
Do you realise how frequently these numbers appear in computing? I don't see how they prove something supernatural or even unusual.

But those are computers not history. You don't expect these numbers to appear in significant frequency randomly in History.

Numerology is any belief in the divine or mystical relationship between a number and one or more coinciding events. The appearance of these numbers don't necessarily mean something supernatural happened in the event it is talking about but it could mean the author is trying to communicate ideas thru Jewish numerology.

Like 7, 12 and 144 are all related to perfection and completion in Jewish numerology so using or emphasizing these numbers or their multiples might not necessarily be communicating hard numbers but communicating a range of numbers and an event or people considered to be perfect or complete, like those numbers are.

I will treat this again. Ooni if Ife is just trying to mend relationship btw Igbos and Yorubas

Is this still on going?

Logic007:
See this "progressive" christian. What kind of christian does not believe in the supernatural?

While I myself am not a progressive Christian. People that react this way to progressive Christians are people that don't know anything about the history of Protestantism since the reformation.

Image123:
Not even talking about Christians or the West. Talking about the world generally and religion. He says intelligent and prosperous people and nations are not serious. He should count the number of doctors and professors in his school and tell me the number that are professing atheists. After that, he should go and count the number of house owners, car owners and business owners in his neighborhood and give me the justification for this spurious tales.

I think it was some swedish researcher that showed that religiosity is positively correlated with moderate financial well being (like upper middle class) and correlates well also to other indicators of success like consienciousness and discipline.

But the extremes of financial success I think in the West at least correlates with Atheism but not too well, Chuck Feeney is still alive and was a Billionaire Christian but donated off all his wealth so no longer registers. So maybe the better correlation would be the extremely financially successful who are also intentionally publicly visible tend to be Atheist.

LordReed:
Where is the evidence for this?

Just how common numerology was in the ancient middle east in general and obvious numerology references in the numbers used in the Bible.

216
7
12
120
5
144

Etc.

It isn't always numerology but in a plurality of occurances, it is.

Logic007:
Heretics?

Galileo was a Christian who was persecuted by the church for his science

Then why wasn't Copernicus and the Polish Heliocentrists that developed around his theories persecuted as well?.

AntiChristian:


Are you missing me?

Are you finally ready to accept Islam?

Noah Ark's story doesn't necessarily claim a global flood.

Comparing to near Eastern usage of their equivalents, show the word used more to refer to the known world.

For example both Sargon of Akkad and the Neo-Assyrians wrote in their proclaimatioms that they had conquered the universe/world and the 4 regions.

In the very context of the proclaimations, still mentioning areas in Arabia and India, it is obvious this refers to their well known world.

This time goes on the boundaries of conquest required to say one "conquered the world" continued to increas from Mesopotamia, to the Near East to all the way from Greece to the Indus.

If the Bible is a Near Eastern document, you should expect similar trope and Idioms, thus you should expect that when used "the world" is used in a similar context, it refers to a similar thing, the well known world.

Which since this is a story tracing Abraham geneology is based in Canaan and from the mentions of "the mountains of Urartu", stretch almost the entire length of Mesopotamia.

LordReed:
What is to be gleaned from a mix of half truths, hyperbolic tales, allegories and truths? Is that not a formula for confusion?

The only stuff that I think are Hyperbolic are the numbers and those are for numerological reasons.

Yes the Jews (or a significant portion of their ancestral near east component) surgeoned in Egypt for a long while.

LordReed:
Yes so Egypt was dominant over Canaan and there was no significant population of Hebrews in Egypt, a total contradiction of what the bible states. Unless you want to read the bible as hyperbolic tales.

Some stuff are hyperbolic, but nothing to that extent.

I'll wait a bit and see how the archeology develops.

Like for recent we have just found evidence of Camel domestication in all places surrounding the levant, unending another 1900s historical analysis.

Also, given how ethnicities are defined in modern day, Hebrews didn't exist until the 12 tribes period.

FatherOfJesus:
So Mary underwent parthenogenesis?

Tell me one known case if parthenogenesis in any mammalian specie?

Religious people and distortion.

Parthenogenesis has been induced in Mammalian species, but it would usually be called cloning when induced. It has been done to sheep.

Anyway, I digress.

LordReed:
Actually it's the other way round, the more we know of the world the less the Bible seems accurate. It is now accepted by mainstream Isreali archaeologists that there is no evidence of the exodus or Hebrew occupation of any portion of Egypt. Also no evidence of any of the people or events from the garden of Eden, Adam and Eve all the way to Moses and the exodus.

Both of what you said were accepted parts of the historical record in the 90s, so doesn't really contradict me.

Since then, it is now accepted that there was heavy Egyptian influnece/control over the Hebrews, that people from Canaan migrated into Egypt during periods of drought, etc.

FatherOfJesus:
how does this explain a virgin giving birth? Lol

Like it doesn't prove anything necessarily, more just makes it possible. We do know that Parthenogenesishttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis is possible but again, doesn't necessarily prove anything, just makes it possible.

FatherOfJesus:
lol, quantum physics do not show situation where natural laws can be skipped.

It’s in fact the basis for most natural laws. Lol, you don’t understand doesn’t mean it’s a miracle

I guess by the very nature of natural laws as the summary of observed events that is true. As Quantum mechanics too have been added into that summary of observed events.

So I guess the correct way of putting it is that it shows that natural laws are more probalistic than deterministic and that most things we call impossible would more accurately be called improbable.

Logic007:
The question was already answered.

-persecution of scientists in the past
-anti scientific miracles in the bible

- Heretics were persecuted not scientists. Sometimes those heretics were scientists, most times those heretics were farmers, some other times those heretics were bankers, etc.

- Isn't that the point of a Miracles, an even that can shun already established laws? Like what is a miracle to you if not something than can ignore physical laws?

Logic007:
Lol...Majority of scientists in America are atheists or agnostics

It would be the same for most European countries.in fact even in religious counties, scientists tend to be less religious than the population.

Majority of them are religious but like the top aren't (most published, most cited, most prices)

FatherOfJesus:
So quantum mechanics is a miracle?
And your appeal to authority is evidence for that?

Do you have a background in science? Seems you are ignorant about everything in science, tell me what’s your level of scientific knowledge?
Can you now see why I said religion reaches a conclusion even before finding evidence which makes it distort facts, lie about science and scientists in order to justify their faulty experimental methods.


Go back and read my post. If you say science is inline with miracle in a good science class, you will mocked to stupor.

Do you even understand quantum mechanics? Lol
This one you are quoting Dr. Worthington, a medical doctor who wants to talk about quantum physics . It seems you didn’t read his profile

I did read his profile a bit but didn't think it was that important.

Also most your responses after that aren't really arguments, if I am so wrong about Quantum Mechanics, then you that see correct, how does the uncertainties in it work?

Also, I didn't say Quantum Mechanics were miracles but that they clearly show situations where the natural laws can be skipped thru.

Logic007:
Scientists are atheists nowadays because science cannot prove God and secondly, faith requires you to believe in things that have no proof.

Science also can't prove that all Humans are equal yet most scientists are Humanists and if if the ideas of humanism is that all people are equal.

But most scientists today believe that most Humans are equal. The only real explanation for both this and the other are the cultural shifts that happened in the 1700s and 1940s.

Logic007:
Scientists are atheists nowadays because science cannot prove God and secondly, faith requires you to believe in things that have no proof.

Faith doesn't require you to believe in something without proof.

Just look how the word is used outside of the religious context.

Faith is a synonym to Trust.

FatherOfJesus:
Is miracle inline with science?

Yes.

With the advent of Quantum mechanics, physical laws are more taken as probalistic than deterministic.

Quoting Dr Mark Worthing
"Science at least to the extent influenced by Quantum mechanics is no longer certain as to what can and cannot happen".

The most widely taught example of this is the heisenberg uncertainty principle in relation to mass and velocity but it applies to much more and can be more easily noticed in very small and unstable matter where a much smaller variation in probability can result in much larger effects.

Like for example, the relatively stable Lead atom can instantaneous transmute into Gold but it is highly improbable that an entire bar of lead will instantly transmute into Gold.

(Also the definition of miracle I used is Hume's which many still don't agree with)

FatherOfJesus:
Just explain how a virgin conceiving and given birth to a baby is inline with science.

No distraction

Again, miracle.

Like why are you trying to turn this argument into "miracles don't exist".

Someone cannot be a Christian and not believe in the possibility of the miraculous.

FatherOfJesus:
And if we ask you to provide a measurable evidence for that historical event, which we know you have none, it automatically threatens your religion.

We have as much and more evidence than we need for existance of someone of the status of (Carpenter turned Apocalyptic preacher) Jesus.

Basically only Kings, their enterouges and similar people have more evidence for their existance.

FatherOfJesus:
Are you cherry picking now?

I'm not cherry picking just clearifying myself.

I don't expect miracles to follow the rules of the world, if they did they won't be miracles, just complex.

I expect everything to follow the rules of the world tho.

FatherOfJesus:
Is this inline with science?

I guess I was more referencing stuff not considered miracles when I typed that, like the historical record or the progression after a miraculous event.

FatherOfJesus:
If science is inline with your religion then how do you explain a virgin conceiving and given birth?

It is a miracle.

Something won't be a miracle if it was simply natural.