European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by PietroRico(m): 4:47pm On May 23, 2016 |
Yea, our midfield was to blame
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European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by PietroRico(m): 11:57pm On May 22, 2016 |
Louis van Gaal tactics left Manchester United players close to mutiny
Daniel Taylor The scale of disillusionment in the dressing room is laid bare as the Dutchman’s era ends to little sympathy among players or fans
So, how did it ever reach the stage where the manager of Manchester United can win the FA Cup, with all the glories it is supposed to bring, then be booed by considerable swaths of the club’s supporters and carry the trophy into his press conference only to be informed the news wires were flashing up stories of his imminent sacking?
For all Louis van Gaal’s faults, it was certainly a low stunt for that kind of information to be leaked while his suit was still damp from the spray of champagne. Van Gaal’s diminished popularity can probably be judged by the beery chants of “José Mourinho” on Wembley Way, as well as various stops along the Metropolitan line, throughout Saturday night, but no manager deserves that kind of treatment. Two have now been in this position since Sir Alex Ferguson’s retirement three years ago and Van Gaal, like David Moyes, found out through the people he called “my friends in the media”. Except, of course, he didn’t say it with any friendliness in his voice.
He is entitled to feel it could have been handled with more dignity but, equally, it is difficult to argue with United’s decision when Van Gaal’s two-year reign has been synonymous with bland, prosaic football, featuring their worst scoring statistics for more than a quarter of a century and, within the dressing room, a scale of disillusionment that makes it absolutely clear there will be minimal sympathy among the players. Van Gaal has been described among those players as “hard work”. His tactics have been so unpopular that various members of his squad have talked between themselves about openly defying him. It hasn’t reached the point of mutiny, but it has been a close-run thing sometimes. The consensus has been that “it can’t get much worse than it is”.
A manager does not have to be popular but he needs to be respected and, though there were times when the players warmed to him and even found him good company, Van Gaal’s often abrasive, almost schoolmasterly approach rubbed against the players like sandpaper. They found his methods restrictive. Why, they asked, was a man with his impressive background so devoted to such an unappealing style? Supporters longed for a return to the old United way – attacking, adventurous football, played at speed and with penetration – but so did the players, and it pained them that he refused to bend.
Instead, there was always the gnawing sense they had to stick to Van Gaal’s rigid system or risk being expelled from the team. United have scored one more goal than fourth-bottom Sunderland – a team who spent 237 days in the relegation zone – in his final season of talking about “the process” or “the philosophy”, and conveniently ignoring how he promised on his arrival that everything would click within three months. It is the least watchable United side in memory and there are numerous stories about how, collectively, the players’ respect for Van Gaal eroded in the process.
One example comes in the form of Van Gaal’s “evaluation sessions” the day after every match when the Dutchman could be so outspoken in his criticisms – “he would crucify players in front of each other”, according to one source – the two most senior players, Wayne Rooney and Michael Carrick, went to see him to air their concerns that it was damaging for morale and, in effect, a self-defeating exercise.
Van Gaal, to give him his due, was always willing to listen to complaints and encouraged his players to speak up. But the bad feeling continued. From that point onwards, he started sending the players individual emails detailing their faults and submitting video clips to highlight his dissatisfaction. Except by that stage a lot of the players were so disillusioned many ignored the emails or redirected them straight to their trash. Van Gaal suspected as much and had a tracker fitted so he could check if the emails were opened and for how long. It became a game of cat and mouse. Some players opened the emails on their mobiles, then left their phones on the side and wandered off for 20 minutes.
It reached the point where many players regarded international breaks as a welcome break and the chance to play in a relaxed atmosphere away from a manager they never fully understood and who, to borrow one description, was thought of as “weird”.
David de Gea will certainly not be too despondent bearing in mind his relationship with Van Gaal had broken to the point the goalkeeper was giving serious consideration to pressing for a transfer this summer. De Gea has been United’s player of the year for the last three seasons and, without him, it is tempting to think their fifth-placed finish, 15 points off the top, would have been significantly worse. Yet his outstanding form masked the fact there was no warmth between him and Van Gaal. The Spaniard had separate issues with Frans Hoek, the goalkeeping coach, but may now be dissuaded from making this his final season in Manchester.
José Mourinho set to be appointed Manchester United manager next week The idea of losing De Gea, presumably to Real Madrid, would have represented a devastating setback for United given that we are talking about one of the few players with genuine star quality. Otherwise, it is not just Paul Scholes, Rio Ferdinand, Gary Neville and all those other player-turned-pundits from the Ferguson era who insist there will have to be a massive clearout. Many at Old Trafford are saying the same. How many need to go? “Ninety per cent,” says one important figure, after giving the question long consideration.
More than anything, the players crave a return to what they consider normality. Ashley Young, for instance, was bemused and mildly horrified earlier this year to be informed he was being given a new role as a back-up centre-forward. Young was one of United’s better performers last season when he moved from his customary place on the left wing to play as a full-back. What he has never purported to be is a striker, especially given the way Van Gaal sees the role. United’s forwards were under orders to do the same thing virtually every time: control the ball, lay it off and then get in the penalty area and wait for it. Wide players were told that, rather than taking on their man, it was better to wait for the team’s full‑backs to arrive in support.
All of which might help to explain why Van Gaal had misgivings about whether Gareth Bale, a long-time target of the club’s executive vice-chairman, Ed Woodward, was a natural fit for the team system. Van Gaal talked at Wembley about United needing “fast, creative players” but this was the manager who came out with a line in one of his first press conferences – “I do not want players to be intuitive” – that seemed so extraordinary the journalists in his company had to go over the tape to check they had not misheard.
With that type of regimented structure, it should be no surprise Ángel Di María did not flourish at Old Trafford but has excelled for Paris Saint-Germain. Memphis Depay has struggled, too, and his cocksure attitude hardly goes hand in hand with what the £25m signing has shown in his first season at the club. When Depay made a mistake that led to Chelsea’s goal in a 1-1 draw at Stamford Bridge in February he was ordered to play in the reserves the following day. Depay turned up to face Norwich City’s second string in a Rolls-Royce and did not seem to care when it was pointed out to him that it might reflect badly on him. There is, however, a degree of sympathy for him behind the scenes and a desire to give him the benefit of the doubt in the hope that he might be reinvented under a different manager.
Overall, though, there is no doubt Van Gaal’s signings have, for the most part, been a significant disappointment. Anthony Martial is the obvious exception but Van Gaal has spent in excess of £250m and for that kind of outlay there has been little back.
Bastian Schweinsteiger is a case in point after starting only 13 league games since moving from Bayern Munich and the last season has made it absolutely clear why the Bundesliga champions were willing to let him go. Schweinsteiger’s form has seldom gone above the six-out-of-10 mark but regularly below and it is not just his ponderous performances that have surprised his team-mates. Schweinsteiger has spent large parts of the season injured and his tendency to return to Germany, flying in and out for United’s matches, has gone down badly, to say the least.
Van Gaal gave Schweinsteiger preferential treatment because he saw him as someone who will carry out his instructions to a tee. For similar reasons, he trusted Marouane Fellaini with a key role. Fellaini was often the player the Old Trafford crowd distrusted the most but Van Gaal appreciated the way he listened to orders when it was obvious other players wanted to use their own initiative.
One of Van Gaal’s more bemusing instructions was for his strikers not to shoot first-time from balls coming across the penalty area. Instead they were under orders to take a touch in front of goal, even if the relevant players felt confident enough to go for goal straight away. One example goes back to the opening day of the season when Tottenham Hotspur were the opposition and Antonio Valencia sent in a low cross from the right to pick out Rooney, unmarked, in the middle of the penalty area. It seemed like a relatively straightforward finish but Rooney took an extra touch because that was what Van Gaal had drummed into his players. Kyle Walker made a saving tackle only to turn the ball into his own net and Rooney looked almost sheepish as he headed back to the centre circle.
Over time, the players started ignoring the rule, complaining that they should be allowed to think for themselves (though the story of one player asking United’s chef to hard-boil him a couple of eggs to take home, on the basis he did not know how to do it himself, suggests that maybe some members of the squad do need coddling).
Other sources have revealed how players became so frustrated with Van Gaal’s instructions they took matters into their own hands and told him they wanted to play their own way. In one case, that player is said to have improved markedly as a result.
It has also become apparent that a lot of players wanted Ryan Giggs to take over on the basis that he has a better understanding of the club than Mourinho, as well as being less likely to fall out with everyone a couple of years down the line, and it will be intriguing to see whether the Welshman remains at Old Trafford or decides to break free now he has been overlooked for the role that Ferguson, among others, wanted him to inherit.
Giggs’s own thoughts about Van Gaal’s managerial style are understood to fall roughly in line with those of Neville and Scholes, his close friends, and the last couple of years have been exceedingly awkward for him as assistant manager, brought up on the old United principles but having to adhere to a different way of thinking and not wanting to rock the boat.
It partly explained why Giggs stopped doing interviews if it meant discussing the team and why his body language often looked so stifled on the bench. Every Thursday, United had an 11-versus-11 practice match and it was Giggs’s role to set up one side in the formation of the team they were bout to face and talk about set pieces. Beyond that, however, he did not have a significant say in tactics and was unable to convince Van Gaal to switch to a more entertaining style of football.
As such, United managed 49 league goals this season; their previous average in the Premier League era was 76.4. They have not been so unproductive since the 1989-90 season when the infamous “Tara Fergie” banner was held up and it sums up their deterioration that in the three years since Ferguson’s retirement the team have managed a total of 175 goals – 81 fewer than Manchester City and, even more embarrassingly, precisely the same number as Ferguson’s side accumulated in his last two campaigns.
At one stage United had more backward passes than any other Premier League club, the lowest percentage when it came to moving the ball forward and the joint second highest ratio sideways. United finished with the most 1-0 wins and the joint highest number of goalless draws. Their total number of shots on target, 430, was the 15th highest out of 20 clubs and Opta’s number-crunchers have data that shows only three other teams – Watford, Aston Villa and West Brom – created fewer chances.
This is the bottom line: Van Gaal gave a new meaning to the saying “football, bloody hell”. United also suffered their worst start to a season for 25 years in his first campaign, 2014-15, when the players privately blamed his pre-season arrangements on tour in Los Angeles for feeling like a five-star prison camp, with double training sessions, various meetings and an evening supper (a piece of toast) taking up every day from 8.30am to 10.30pm. It was a bad start and, even with an FA Cup to show, the difficult truth is that the Van Gaal years will not be remembered at Old Trafford with any fondness. |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by PietroRico(m): 11:24pm On May 22, 2016 |
Berbattov enjoyed his time here no be small. The other day I saw a video of him walking around his house with United shorts.
Now see his favourite 11 being dominated by his United teammates. |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by PietroRico(m): 7:40pm On May 22, 2016 |
lekkie073: ]jose is a coach dat doesnt take to gambling...depending on young emerging players is to d detriment of winning trophies....with the exception of d class of 92, even fergie couldn't boast of putting his hopes on academy graduates....not as if they wont play but not on a weekly basis. Between 2006 and 2009, how many academy grads were fully inculcated?and these were d years utd was really challenging on all fronts aggressively.
Left to me the only academy grads I can bank on are rashford and mensah...all other still show very visible flaws nobody is asking anybody to 'depend' on any of them in any way, not even Rashford or martial. I only just hope they(minus Rashford and Martial) remain on the on the fringes of the first team and get sniffs at 1st team action every now and then till anyof them shows enough promise to be taken more seriously. What I don't want is total neglect. |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by PietroRico(m): 7:40pm On May 22, 2016 |
parrotibaba: We should expect anything, this summer transfer market will be interesting. Honestly speaking, I will take experienced players over youth and hopefully some of our youngins will get a run out in some matches next season if Jose decides to revamp the squad. precisely |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by PietroRico(m): 5:35pm On May 22, 2016 |
Really concerned about how Jose will handle the current crop of emerging players |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by PietroRico(m): 11:20pm On May 21, 2016 |
elampiro: I did the dance when we equalised, and also at final whistle.  |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by PietroRico(m): 9:53pm On May 21, 2016 |
JayKayMaybachz: Is the Mourihno News real!!? sky, BBC, Telegraph, bein amongst others have all reported it. |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by PietroRico(m): 9:19pm On May 21, 2016 |
My personal natch highlight  Motherfücker
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European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Club World Cup Champions 2025-2029 by PietroRico(m): 7:51pm On May 20, 2016*. Modified: 8:22pm On May 20, 2016 |
The problem with Dayo Is that he erroneously takes certain football issues to be linear. He treats football like some form of linear equation and when you bust him he covertly shifts the post with incredible expertise. Many a times only those following the argument really closely will notice. These days he seems to be on a campaign to declare himself King of NL European sports section by fire by force, dunno if anyone else has noticed  As usual I go fold my hands dey observe and laugh for background. Make of it what you will  |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by PietroRico(m): 11:35pm On May 10, 2016 |
elampiro:
Michael Carrick had 76% pass accuracy. I have never seen it so tough with Carrick. What a bloody day. y in reality, that pitch was too fûcking tight /small.. Jeez |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by PietroRico(m): 11:31pm On May 10, 2016 |
Sick back and reflect on how badly this club is run from the very top, (glazers them) to bottom, your heart may weep. We've got owners who are only interested in making money for themselves A chairman who doesn't know his right from his left and an ímbecilic and archaic manage who is supposed to have retired since 2004!
Transfer Policy, we no get again Hardly any template for buying first team players.
The club needs divine intervention or we may very well be in for much worse times ahead. |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by PietroRico(m): 11:23pm On May 10, 2016 |
parrotibaba: In other news, SAF met Pochettino this afternoon for lunch.
Thoughts? which kind yeye poch? I'd take anyone over lvg atm, even Keshi, but we should be doing better than Pochettino!
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European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by PietroRico(m): 11:19pm On May 10, 2016 |
sinizia: Before the match I kept yelling that Blind at LB and Jones at CB was a better pairing but as we all know, the goat of a coach is an obtuse rètard. Well, my prayers are coming to pass.  of even fosu Mensah if Jones wasn't fit enough LVG's praise for playing youth is unnecessary. He only did so because his hands were forced. |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by PietroRico(m): 11:11pm On May 10, 2016 |
I wonder which law the potato headed băstard go blame today |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by PietroRico(m): 11:06pm On May 10, 2016 |
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European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by PietroRico(m): 11:02pm On May 10, 2016 |
elampiro: Rojo is very poor in reading aerial balls. there is absolutely NOTHING Rojo is good at. He cant tackle, can't pass, can't cross can't head, positioning whack etc etc How this idíot not better than egwekue found his way here and is still playing, only God knows. He is by far United's worst player |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by PietroRico(m): 10:54pm On May 10, 2016 |
2 minutes remaining, the winning manager Is on the edge of the sidelines Barking instructions but lose van goat is firmly seated on his arsê, doing God knows what.
Motivation is not even zero, it's negative.
Again may thunder fire all the board members responsible for this bąstard still having a job starting with Woodhead's plank like head. |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by PietroRico(m): 10:45pm On May 10, 2016 |
The signs were there all along for all to see. No back to back away wins all season. Just 7 wins in total. Why would anyone expect magic at West ham's home ground ffs?
West ham even had more fire in them They actually wanted the win more and they got it. Unreal fúckery.
Thunder fire every single member of the board wey ensure say van Gaal still get job at this point in time. |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by PietroRico(m): 4:43pm On May 10, 2016 |
raumdeuter: [img]http://forums.bigsoccer.com/attachments/screenshot_20160510-070826-png.74851/[/img]
35M EUros is the type of money ordinary Spurs paid for ordinary Son Heung min who doesnt even start a lot of games for them
Thats like half the money paid of Raheem Sterling who sits for Iheanacho as aspected You will always want to wriggle your way out dubiously I don't see how city and spurs being mugged for sterling and son means you haven't be done the same. Besides, Son was bought for just under 28m, it's hardly the same with 35m Stop trying to be too tricky. Finally I'm still waiting for you to tell how exactly pellegrini is better than lvg |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by PietroRico(m): 11:46am On May 10, 2016 |
GloryIsaac: So after all the gra gra, Bayern still carry Renato sanches for 35m .... We wey dey headlines since dey pursue am for 80m no fit , Na who i go blame now Lvg or Woodward  the asking price has always been 36 million. If United had paid that money, they would have been screaming maga everywhere. I'm particularly curios about their take now |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by PietroRico(m): 11:32am On May 10, 2016 |
Elxandre: Players can be foolishh Sha.
He'd go to Barca to die on the bench at 29? or conclude his career by winning trophies. |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by PietroRico(m): 8:25pm On May 09, 2016 |
raumdeuter: The manager cannot be the reason the best squad would not make top 4.
The LVG you all love to abuse would even make top 4 ahead of them, Is LvG now better than Pellegrini? It's popular opinion that pellegrini has largely under achieved with this current crop of players in the league this season. I will like to know how exactly pellegrini is better than lvg though |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by PietroRico(m): 7:43pm On May 09, 2016 |
Just wow
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European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by PietroRico(m): 5:42pm On May 09, 2016 |
raumdeuter: How come these fantastic City players wont even make top 4. How can a team have the best squad and still not make top 4. Definitely that squad is a fraud
Shey Na Yaya or Na Kompany or na Mangala or na Demichelis or na Navas or na Nasri or na Sterling or na Bony who are these players in City sef Erm, because the manager failed them maybe? Did that ever cross your mind? |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by PietroRico(m): 7:20pm On May 08, 2016 |
JayKayMaybachz: That werey of LvG fit win am
That Gob is always fvcking lucky he's a fűcking cat with 9 lives.. But I just can't shake off the feeling that he's going to bottle, be it against West ham or even bournemouth In an ideal would, we would seal 4th, win the fa cup and still sack the potato head... |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Official Manchester United Fan Thread:''20 Times EPL Champion by PietroRico(m): 7:06pm On May 08, 2016 |
Lol... We've not won back to back away games all season. Y'all better not put your hope on us beating the Hammers  This season sha  |
Education › Re: 11 Pictures Every Freshman (1st Year students) Can Relate To by PietroRico(m): 7:08pm On May 05, 2016 |
Lol |
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European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by PietroRico(m): 11:07pm On May 03, 2016 |
raumdeuter: The first leg came back to bite us in the asss.
For that Pep can take Bernat and Thiago along with him
With Muller's penalty miss I knew we are in for a long night. A CL semi isnt where you miss Penalty, Ask Barca and Messi
Finally we have come to the end of the Pep experiment, Its been just an average reign looking forward to the next manager when we dont have to line up CB's on the half way line  Is pep now officially a fraudiola? |
European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) › Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by PietroRico(m): 10:26pm On May 03, 2016 |
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