This should make a good interview question for software engineers especially those who have worked with encryption. Just to check critical reasoning.

Yes, it’s probably impossible to break an end to end encryption which uses a good algorithm. I said probably because nothing is impossible. The tech to break may be out there but well hidden.

The main problem with WhatsApp is that it’s not opensource. We cannot see their code. We do not know if they are stealing our private keys and somehow uploading to their servers.

So everyone here going on about WhatsApp end to end encryption, is basing their argument on the premise that we trust Facebook, which is just laughable.

You can only really trust an opensource end to end encrypted app because you can verify the code and make sure the private keys are not being tampered with.

TimeIllusion:



The science doesn't Big Bang started everything. It say Big Bang was the expansion was what is. The Big Bang is the expansion of the universe from a lower state of entropy (particular configuration compared to now). The science we know says energy is not created or destroyed.

What current laws of the universe "break down"? Are you aware that so called laws of the universe are descriptive not prescriptive?

I mentioned the Big Bang because it is a well known phenomenon. However I meant that our understanding of the universe breaks down at that point.
How did the Universe get into that so called lower state of entropy? What was it’s state before that?

It's not based on belief or hope. My argument is based on the possibility that we may be unable to even know what the universe is during our existence. Humans may well go extinct before we accumulate enough knowledge, assuming it's possible to accumulate enough knowledge.

I am happy seeing that word possibility. The problem is atheists giving others a hard time as if their own belief is based on hard evidence. For the sake of science, it’s better to keep pushing for knowledge but you have to have an open mind, if not you become the same thing you criticise.


You have to admit that there is also a possibility that the universe was created.
If I create a game, and give the objects in the game intelligence , their will be a limit to their intelligence because they live in a world I created.

I didn't say just existing. I said it has always existed while continuously changing.

You cannot prove this without explaining how the universe got into the lower state of entropy to begin with.

TimeIllusion:


Improbable because it's idea based on a very limited understanding of the universe and often given human attributes. Improbable means I could be wrong and something that approximates how various people describe god could very well be true, but it's highly unlikely given the mythological nature of gfods. But "God(s)" could be real.

The mythological nature many have ascribed to God should not have any bearing on the likelihood of God‘s existence.

Observable and unobservable.
Existence meaning what's real and not just an abstract idea.
e.g.
Snow White does not exist because it's just a fairy tale character.
Snow White exists as an intellectual property of Walt Disney

God exists as an abstract idea. But is the idea based on something that is an actual entity, object, being or is it based solely on the human intellect like Snow White?



This thread is not about whether the universe was created or not. However, if you think it was created, tell us how. Tell us about the nature of God too.


How does logic support creation?
What do you mean by creation?
What are "laws of creation"
Who promulgated this laws?
What do you mean "outside the laws of creation"



The first honest thing you've said, accidentally. You cannot prove God, that's why you have faith. Logically, if you can't prove it, then the atheists assertion, not belief, is true. No faith needed.

If I say TUTUkan is real and fail to provide any proof or even clarify what it is, do you have "belief" that TUTUkan is real or do you reasonably dismiss it due to lack of evidence and lack of clarity? Replace TUTUkan with God or god or diety or supreme being or whatever else the "creator" is called.

The Science we know today shows that the Big Bang started everything. There is currently no understanding of what happened before the Big Bang. My logic is based on that. The universe was designed to come into existence because the current laws of the universe break down at that point.

However your argument is based on hope(belief), that one day we will understand how the Universe came about.

So logic, based on what we can prove at this moment is that we were created.
Wisdom, says we really don’t know.

However the weakest argument is yours, which states that the universe is just existing. You should provide proof to back that up.

TimeIllusion:


It's not impossible that an entity that approximates "God" exist, it's improbable.
Yes, something has always existed and will always exist. We are just a minuscule part of the eternal rhythm. Before us, after us, and currently, existence persists in "infinite forms".

You could have just left it at the emboldened. What makes it improbable?
What do you mean by existence? The observable universe?

Atheists have a habit of arguing about the nature of God, instead of sticking to the main point which is “Was the universe created or not?”

For now, logic (I don’t want to argue about faith) says that we were created. But the paradox is that whatever created us is outside the laws of our creation. I am willing to shift in my belief if you atheists provide evidence of your own belief (yes, atheism is a belief, because you also cannot prove your assertions).

Fountainofyouth:
Why will I be married to a man that hides something from me? The moment he passwords his phone, means he's cheating, what other reason would make him password his phone if not that

All phones should be passworded in case they fall into the wrong hands. You may ask your partner for their password though.

You really remind me of someone.