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Or WhatsApp 07030853375

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Or WhatsApp 07030853375

oyetpel:
Jom Snow. The King in the North. Am just scared for Jon Snow tho, all this King in the North with no crown and proper coronation. Na so dem call Robb King in the Norf. But na Robb Bleep up sha. But that Volantis lady too dey tempting. She be like Lara wey come attend to peoples wound for Naija. Oshiomole jam am, nack am, marry am. Oshiomole the Fing in the Sauth.

Hahahhhhahahaha

kaydee:
@Nihilist reminds me of Jackal/Sauron with his arguments. It's obvious no one shares your opinion.
Jon made a great emotional mistake despite the fact that Sansa forewarned him and it's understandable. He's been a Stark most of his life and they always make that error.
Now everyone who doubted him or questioned his ability and leadership qualities is asking for forgiveness. He's marked for greatness and a better leader than anyone in the Seven kingdoms.
Give it up already and bow to the king in the north.

Tuale!!! To d King in the North jare but wait oo!! Y does most ppl think He made a mistake (emotional like u put it)...charging forward to meet Rickon half way is what any loving brother wud do.....continuing to charge forward after Rickon's death...mayb but then don't think it was of any consequence cos arrows wud still fly all around him.....so,I don't really get ooo...mayb I shud b enlightened....cos d only option I see is NOT charging forward @all whch wud mean 100% Rickon's Death

oyetpel:
Abeg bro leave the guy. Glover even said house Stark is dead, why? Lady Mormont even mentioned it when she was counseled by her Maester that, Jon Snow is a bastard and even a man of the Night's watch, Sansa don marry Tyrion, marriee Bolton sef, tell me is house Stark not dead?? But they actually also use it as an excuse not to follow Jon, this is not a question about leadership at all, that's why i called the guy a Jon hater. Nobody questioned his leadership, those houses that didn't follow him were just thinking logically. Lyanna supported Jon with instinct, her maester would have told her not to, listen to Lyanna Mormont speech again when they declared Jon Snow a King. She said she doesn't care if he's a bastard. Your Glover that you are talking about sef ask for forgiveness for not commiting men to Jon's cause. You are just hating on a tv character whose Leadership was not questioned at anytime.

I just keep 4getting things....but then in addition if it was about good leadership...Stannis...great Commander...said to b d greatest Military Commander of their time was refused Men when he asked....it was more bout self preservation than Snow's leadership!!!

Endy10:
Just to end this argument.
I don't think either of the houses would have committed men regardless of who was leading the charge. Their main concern was with losing more men, not that Jon was in charge. They never questioned his leadership, they questioned the cause.

Gbam!!!....that nails it.....that was what I forgot to conclude my earlier post wit...it was NOT questioning his leadership, they weighed d COST of the cause esp. wen it looked futile...Lord Glover even asked 'who and who do u have'??

losprince:
Stark leadership not jons, and he had no right to question stark leadership because it was his bloody castle and everyone was off to war.
The young wolf didn't get everyone killed, he took them to a wedding... It was the boltons, the freys that killed them all..



Jons leadership wasn't questioned here, the lord was just skeptical, Jon didn't have the army and to him it didn't seem like jon had a chance of winning


Every lord would take their men's safety as utmost priority, they didn't feel jon couldn't protect their men, They feared he didn't have the men to win.



He outrightly sold jon as a great leader, Only a great leader could see beyond the fights against a few squabbling houses and want to unite everyone to fight a greater enemy, that's why he led the wildlings past the wall in the first place


You can't just walk up to the free folk and ask them to follow you to a fight that doesn't really concern them, you saved their lives on the condition that they would fight with you against the white walkers and they agreed, anybody would be relunctant.... also remember when jon was dead at the wall it was the free folk who unrelunctantly rushed there to avenge his death. Besides people would only follow you when you give them a strong reason to not because you did something for them.


Those men bore him no love, Ser alliser had already twisted their minds.


GOOD

Thank U jare...me sef tire 4 am....I wonder if na back of screen e de watch....I had to rewatch Episode 7-10 again and wondered if ds person watched ds same tin....so until Ser Davos shouts 'He is a great leader' b4 U wud know he sold him as a great leader @ Bear Island....Or if he/she can't read facial expression on Sansa to know that was genuine happiness...be there quoting interview of d actors from google....I said I wasn't saying more on this but watching those episodes again upset my spirit whr ds nihilist dey....well done jare

armadeo:
I don't think so. You know it appears Jamie arrived at the coronation.
Seeing cersei on the throne meant his last child was dead.
Thats the look they shared.

I doubt that

Emmyk:
I'm addicted. I told a lot and still tell, about the series, I make them watch the series.

Guess I'm not a sucker for characters' names in series, especially when they are much, like GOT's.

Abi?....guess so

07030853375

Nihilist:
I may have to be more discriminating when deciding to who to respond to in future

I will try and answer your post, not because I believe it is of any particular value or worth replying, but just to show how events as they happened are considered irrelevant, when the defence of a beloved character is of utmost concern. Seems like even the facts are not allowed to get in the way of your narrative

For instance.


This is a bold faced lie.

Lord Glover on why he refused to answer Jon -

"Yes, my family served House Stark for centuries. We wept when we heard of your father's death. When my brother was Lord of this castle he answered Robb's call and hailed him King in the North! And where was "King" Robb when the Ironborn attacked this castle? When they threw my wife and children in prison and brutalized and killed our subjects? Taking up with a foreign wh0re... getting himself and those who followed him killed."

You can see that Glover is clearly questioning Stark Leadership here....No mention of the word 'Bastard'

Lord Manderly on why he refused to answer Jon -

""Lady Mormont speaks harshly... and truly. My son died for Robb Stark, the Young Wolf. I didn't think we'd find another king in my lifetime. I didn't commit my men to your cause because I didn't want more Manderlys dying for nothing."

Again the questions of leadership is raised, framed against a concern that Jon would have the Manderlys die for nothing'

Both Lords are very particular in pointing out that the safety of their men was of utmost priority, and neither one of them felt that Jon could guarantee their continued safety.



Another bold faced lie. Davos never sold Jon to Lyanna as a great leader. Instead he appealed to her instinct for self-preservation.

His speech below

"Jeor Mormont and Jon Snow both understood that the real war isn't between a few squabbling houses. It's between the living and the dead. And make no mistake my lady, the dead are coming."
As long as the Boltons hold Winterfell, the North is divided. And a divided North won't stand a chance against the Night King. You want to protect your people my lady, I understand. But there's no hiding from this. We have to fight. And we need to do it together"


I agree...which is why I did not focus on that in isolation. Like I said, he saved some of them from the whitewalkers and then offered them sanctuary at Castle Black doing away with a tradition that has held several centuries, and at the expense of his own life...yet these guys are still reluctant to fight for him at Winterfell. He has made enormous sacrifices to keep the wildlings alive, and yet was still unable to muster their loyalty without help- HOW COME?


This is exactly the point. The Lord Commander of the night's watch perfomed an noble act that was morally right. Yet his subordinates disagreed so strongly with his decision that they actually chose to MURDER HIM. If that is not the biggest exhibit of a lack of faith in his leadership, then I don't know what is.

I'm done with this debate. I cannot continue to repeat myself and deal with the same non-coherent arguments time and again.

No vex bo

Done with it too cos it seems we would never have a meeting ground

Nihilist:
I'm beginning to think that it is impossible to have either a civil and/or a measured discussion about this show.
I'm not sure that if I should be continuing this discussion, if after reading multiple posts of mine discussing just one particular facet of Jon Snow's character traits, your conclusion is that I hate Jon Snow...and for NO reason.

I remember I raised this point a few pages back:



I was reading an interview with Sophie Turner, and this is what she had to say:


http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/game-of-thrones-season-7-spoilers-jon-sansa-littlefinger-marry-theory-sophie-turner-1201805047/


Another interview with Sansa here:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-finale-sophie-turner-906820



Now listen to Kit Harrington himself on Jon Snow:



I don't hate Jon Snow, but I think he's a disastrous leader. Pre-BoB, he had only really been trusted as a leader by an immature child and an ignorant wildling. That's why I could not understand why the Nothern Lords were so eager to trust him. Shikena.

Besides I see no jealousy.....that is what they tot she SHOULD feel...but watch that scene again...she was happy for him...her expression only changed wen she looked @ Baelish and that expression is 'distrust for Baelish'...like 'what's he gonna do now'....Not jealousy

snezBaba:
If you had to seek refuge in Google to grant you posts about people seeing Jon snow has a bad leader then 4get it bruh.Big Bang Theory Is the best comedy sitcom in the world but thousands still say it's wack.so back to GOT,i can also go to google and bring out authentic posts saying Jon is the best there ever was.Get me

Exactly my words out of ur mouth...well done

Nihilist:
The same guys that elected Jon Snow ended up publicly executing him , so what exactly is your point?

If you look at each of the events I've mentioned, you will see that generally people just don't seem to believe in Jon for whatever reason.

Take the Wildlings for example. Jon warned them of white walkers which gave some of them time to escape. He defied customs that had stood for centuries by allowing the wildlings beyond the wall for their personal safety, and even lost his life for this decision in the process!

Yet the wildlings were still reluctant to fight for him until Tormmund yet again had to intercede

Sansa, his own sister was prepared for him for him to ride his men to certain death , rather than hand him control of the Vale armies.

One event could be bad luck. 2 could be coincidence. 3 is a trend.

Just to confirm that I'm not mad, I Googled 'Jon Snow is a Terrible leader' and found all sorts of publications agreeing with me for the EXACT same reasons I've given - from NY times to Playboy.

I know the guy is a popular character, but I thought it would be pretty obvious that he has severe leadership flaws.

Finally, I really don't appreciate your final sentence saying I'm arguing for arguments sake. I have had to remind you a couple of times now. Attack my argument, not my person. If you feel you are incapable of doing this, then don't quote me. I can be quite nasty myself.

Or didn't U see how happy she was when He was declared King in the North until she looked @ Baelish

Nihilist:
The same guys that elected Jon Snow ended up publicly executing him , so what exactly is your point?

If you look at each of the events I've mentioned, you will see that generally people just don't seem to believe in Jon for whatever reason.

Take the Wildlings for example. Jon warned them of white walkers which gave some of them time to escape. He defied customs that had stood for centuries by allowing the wildlings beyond the wall for their personal safety, and even lost his life for this decision in the process!

Yet the wildlings were still reluctant to fight for him until Tormmund yet again had to intercede

Sansa, his own sister was prepared for him for him to ride his men to certain death , rather than hand him control of the Vale armies.

One event could be bad luck. 2 could be coincidence. 3 is a trend.

Just to confirm that I'm not mad, I Googled 'Jon Snow is a Terrible leader' and found all sorts of publications agreeing with me for the EXACT same reasons I've given - from NY times to Playboy.

I know the guy is a popular character, but I thought it would be pretty obvious that he has severe leadership flaws.

Finally, I really don't appreciate your final sentence saying I'm arguing for arguments sake. I have had to remind you a couple of times now. Attack my argument, not my person. If you feel you are incapable of doing this, then don't quote me. I can be quite nasty myself.

Sansa don't have control of Vale knights...she was reluctant to ask Lord Baelish for help knowing who he is....but in fact she had to cos of her brother who u say she don't trust

Emmyk:
How you guys remember all their names is still mindblowing. I have been following the show since May 2014 and I still don't know some characters by name.

Haahahahahaha....be more interested I guess

kenturkish:
From all your posts it's obvious you hate Jon snow, how do you expect the wildlings to just follow him? Someone who has been their enemy for thousands of years, Jon snow was elected Commander of the watch after sam sang his praises and reminded every one how jon snow Led them @ the battle after ser aliser Thorne was injured. He does what he feels is right and he stands by his decision, jon snow is seen as a legend in the north your beloved ramsay even said so himself.

Didn't know ppl have responded to his post...thank U jare...exactly my point...

gj22:
All your points are made totally out of context.

How do you want the Wildlings to fight for him when they don't know him? He was a crow and they literally have just met him for the first time. How are they supposed to know What type of commander he is?

The other lords didn't want to fight for him because the feared the Bolton and also knew that he had an army made up of Wildlings whom they hate. They didn't know what type of commander he was.

Wait, nobody trusts in Jon snow as a leader yet he was elected lord commander of the nights watch? Now, i know you are just arguing for arguments sake

Thank you,Bro...if I know u have responded...wouldn't have bothered

Nihilist:
Mate Jon Snow is a terrible commander and if you've been paying attention, you will notice that nobody seems to trust him as a leader....well, except for Tormmund and that little girl.

At Hardhome, despite the threats of the whitewalkers, despite the intervention of Tormmund who personally beat one of their leaders to death, the majority of the wildlings refused to follow him.

At Castle Black, some of his own subordinates consider him a traitor and kill him, and in the meeting where Aliser explains his logic to the members of the watch, we see that majority of the nights watch agree with his killing. Again, Jon has to rely on Tormmund to prevail on the members of the watch so that he could take his revenge.

When it came to the time to fight the Boltons, the major lords refused to trust him. Sansa refused to trust him. Tormmund had to remind the remaining wildlings about how Jon had to literrally die for them. Even the Lyanna had to be talked into backing Jon by Davos!

It is important to note up until the battle of the bastards, literally nobody trusts in Jon as a leader. Tormmund is loyal to Jon as friend and not as a leader. Tormmund has described himself as not being clever, and was ignorant of battle tactics as seen during the discussion with Jon and Davos.

Davos himself stressed how important it was to stick to the plan. Sansa told him that Ramsay would act in the way he did.

We can see that at almost every stage of his journey, Jon's judgement has (rightly)been questioned by many of the characters he interacts with. Even his own babe called him an Olodo.


So this is exactly why, I'm not judging Jon in hindsight. Everybody knew he would fuckup. This guy has constantly and consistently been one of the most idiotic characters in the GOT universe. Which is why I find it exceptionally galling that none of the Nothern Lords noticed this post-BoB

Guy...I don't even know wher to start cos it seems u just don't like d guy cos all ds points u raised are null and void. I mean all. That he is a bastard is a big question mark on him. And that is d MAJOR reason some ppl refuse him or question him. It has notin to do wit his qualities or skills as a leader. @ Hardhome, wud u follow ur enemy (of a thousand years) because of a threat (Whitewalkers) u don't even believe exists. @ Castleblack, of course he's seen as a traitor cos he did what was NEVER done or tot to b done. Simple logic, Enemy of my enemy is (can be) my friend. To fight d boltons, houses didn't follow him MAJORLY because he is a BASTARD, notin more..ask Lord Klaber (or however that is spelt). If it was young Brandon (witout any fighting experience sef)asking, they wud ansa, believe it or not. Lady Mormont has to talked into...Same reason 'BASTARd'....remember her major reason was questioning if either of them(Sansa or Jon) was a Stark and Ser Davos spoke highly of Jon and how he can b d only person that cud lead....come,wht da hell are talking bout sef??.....U just don't like d dude...forget ur points

codedguy1:
First of all we all agree Ramsay is a mad man.

After he killed Rickon he signalled his archers to shoot, that made Jon charge forward because he was now a stting duck out in the open.


Rickon running zigzagardly would mean nothing if Ramsay unleashed his archers just to killed him. The arrows got him even when he was dead on the floor right after jon charged forward.

But @ least,he has not ordered his archers yet...he stood a chance running zigzag

2 tink dat Lord Bolton was also part of ds massacre hurt me...wen he let Jaime go,I was wondering wot he was doing until I saw hs role in d massacre....thank GOd,Blackfish escaped.
Ow cud dos guys b so relaxed?

DELSEY: @ the long run you will be glad you did not get the message that TRENDED. Delsey says so!!!!

Abi oooo

chrisI: tell them ooo mr Grab.

Chris,y do u keep avoidin d questn....u don get d mail?....no hard feelins...juSt inquisitive

Hey fellas....ow una de?....been away 4 a while...just wanna say HBD in arrears 2 Julie and Abbyrian,beta late dan Neva,dey say....Keep t rolling....HB tins

chrisI: sassydiva, am shockd u r stil awake..hi dearie

But Chris...on a more serious note...wetin u de read every nite..all nite long?

@chrisI,dat's cos much aint happening except now pistis'.....congrats pistis

chrisI: helo my people...and welcome to another day ...i feel excited about this month ...i knw God has answered all our prayers...hav a sound sleep u guys...listening to miguel..awake tins

Always awake....HB tins