bukatyne:

Hahahahahaha @ the last paragraph.

Someone who is not old enough to consent to sex or drink alcohol is 'old' enough to insist on the gender he/she is.

WoundedLamb:


First, I'm sorry for your ordeal. I can only imagine how much impact that must have had on you as an adult.

You see, your personal path of being abused as a kid and possibly getting addicted to se.x at some point in your life doesn't necessarily mirror the life pattern of gay people. As a matter of fact, viewing the gay struggle through the lenses of your personal experience as a non gay person is the reason behind most straight people's dispositions towards the gay community. We unempathetically judge them by heterosexual standards.

If you can recall, my question was "how many gay people do you have as close friends or as family members open to you?" Yes, you mentioned you had a gay room mate back in school. But you used the words "unknown" and "unfortunately" and that tells a tale about your experience. Those two words sharply contrast with the ones in bold in my question above. "Unknown" means he wasn't open to you (not surprising seeing how they aren't accepted) and "unfortunately" means it wasn't a good experience and you guys aren't close anymore. Sorry, I fail to see how this would give you an insight into the life a gay person. People open to friends and confidents. To really know about gay community, you'd have to have some of them as friends who confide in you. Otherwise, all you'd get would be assumptions or things said by people in distress.

Like I said, gay people aren't people who suffered terrible childhoods. Gay people are found in every environment; within the rich, the poor, the isolated, the socialized, the well-treated, the ill-treated, the blacks, the whites, the religious, the irreligious, the intelligent, the dumb, etc. It is a sexual orientation just like being straight.

advanceDNA:


U are asking me.??..is that not the one of questions we’ve been asking the LGBT people since they allow a man to just wake up and say he identify as female and start participating in female sport...

advanceDNA:



But u agree all of these so called girl things and boy things are socially engineered..?.they are not laws ...so what’s the point of conforming to ideas that change everytime..

Furthermore, what if someone is effeminate?? I’ve never heard that being a crime or irritating....yes... people bully and make fun of people ....come on...that’s every where, people even bully other for being brilliant, pretty, etc....

like I said people are just allowing the environment mess with them and instead of the government helping them get the care they need, they allowing them go through the long horrible road of chemical/blade anatomy reconstruction ...and now we have kids and minors who know nothing on this boat

Because really, I don’t see how gender reconstruction is the solution to being bullied or not liking boy or girl things...



And I disgrace with you on ur first line...self love and confidence is supposed to be a personal decision....Dady and mummy might cheer you, fri mds my tell you what you want to hear .....th decision to be happy is still yours

WoundedLamb:


We are all social beings and unless you plan to live in caves alone or isolate yourself like Medusa, it's practically impossible to ignore social constructs. Do you know money (the concept of currency) is a social construct? Yet virtually everything we do life is aimed at having it. Marriage is a social construct. Dressing is just a social construct yet Bobrisky is one of the most hated people in Nigeria for cross-dressing. The concept of countries is a social construct yet people move from one country to another when they feel the former isn't working for them. Gender norms are social constructs and it's not any less important than the ones I've mentioned above. Institutionalized social constructs give shape to human existence and it's practically impossible to ignore them as long as we are alive cause that automatically implies social ostracism, the fastest route to suicide.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being girly, that I totally agree with. But unfortunately, life is hell for them. You've never heard? Well, I'm telling you now. A boy who feels better putting on tight trousers, a boy who likes to keep long nails and hair, a boy who can't walk without moving his waist like a lady, etc. is automatically irritating to an average straight man. People hate them for no reason. Regardless of how much self love you claim to have, you can never be happy when you attract hatred from all angles just by existing. It's so easy for you to say cause you've not walked in these people's path.

You can disagree with me about self love but if you agree that no one just wakes up and decide to hate himself, then you invariably agree that self love is influenced by external factors. Nevertheless, like I mentioned earlier, transgendering isn't all about self hatred. People change gender to be where they want to be.

Government does not encourage or discourage anyone to become trans. Government doesn't just take that freedom away. Freedom is one thing Africans need to appreciate. You may not approve of something but you shouldn't take away that freedom from others cause you don't like it. Do you really worry about the chemical/blade anatomy they go through (that would be very kind of you) or do you just hate transgenders?

blueAgent:


You advocate for them ,so you probably will have a solution to such Dilemma.

advanceDNA:



But u agree all of these so called girl things and boy things are socially engineered..?.they are not laws ...so what’s the point of conforming to ideas that change everytime..

Furthermore, what if someone is effeminate?? I’ve never heard that being a crime or irritating....yes... people bully and make fun of people ....come on...that’s every where, people even bully other for being brilliant, pretty, etc....

like I said people are just allowing the environment mess with them and instead of the government helping them get the care they need, they allowing them go through the long horrible road of chemical/blade anatomy reconstruction ...and now we have kids and minors who know nothing on this boat

Because really, I don’t see how gender reconstruction is the solution to being bullied or not liking boy or girl things...



And I disgrace with you on ur first line...self love and confidence is supposed to be a personal decision....Dady and mummy might cheer you, fri mds my tell you what you want to hear .....th decision to be happy is still yours

advanceDNA:


They should learn to love themSelves....

If a man loves lipsticks, dresses, and gowns, cleavage tops...that’s fine..yeah he may look a little weird... but what’s the big deal??..these things are all social construct invented by someone or companies....any gender can like them...

If a man truly feels like a woman inside...then it shouldn’t be about havingn b00bs or long hair, or wearing dresses...some women don’t even have boobs or wear dresses or do socially acceptable women things....

These people are just confusing desire for social constructs with being a particular gender. Then reconstruct their anatomy to fit in with the social constructs.....becos Ideally a man who feels like a woman inside is technically gay; i.e., attracted to men... meaning when he fully cuts off the pen!s he’ll start having sex with men...(correct menif I’m wrong)

All I see here are humans allowing environment drive them crazy..

WoundedLamb:


In summary, yes.

The expression "trapped in a body", according to the medical dictionary is the feeling that one's gender is different from one's mind, heart and personality. A cute girl with visible jaw lines who is naturally inclined to engage in body building, play football, go on low cut, put on baggy trousers, fight, etc. may be feeling limited by her own body. She can't join the male team where she feels she belongs, she can't pull her shirt in public as she'd want to cause she has breasts to cover. She can't openly have a girlfriend in some places cause she's a girl. Such a person feels trapped in her own body. The fact that she has to be a man to live a fulfilled life implies she might never really be happy in life. The thought of this alone could lead to acute depression. This is where the option of transgendering comes in (for those who feel the need to).

In Nigeria, you have some extremely effeminate boys hated and bullied by thier mates. Even the adults aren't spared. They pretend not to care but many of them are very depressed. They cry at night and wish they weren't born. Some get suicidal. Yet, they can't change cause they don't even know what to change; they can't walk like your stereotypical men, speak like them or like football like they do. They are stuck in a life of perpetual sadness. But they can't transgender cause the same people that hate them also hate transgenders. It's like saying, "we won't let you be, we won't let you go". It's almost as if suicide is a better option.

Finally, I'd like to add that transgendering does not necessarily promote gay rights. If you feel attracted to fellow men and then you turn into a lady, you'll only end up reducing the gay visibility. This is not always the case but I just felt I should correct the impression. Thanks.

Cc: blueAgent

blueAgent:


And you also wrote this.

blueAgent:


But you wrote this?

Is it that you don't understand what Advocacy means or what?

blueAgent:


You don't get my point.

I was roommate with this guy for close to 2years, I had to tolerate this becos of constraints on my part financial.

And he was 4years ahead of me.

So you saying I do not know them well is illogical.

Its unfortunate becos I never knew about his sexual orientation till we became roomates.

Do you know that none gays can become gay later in life as a result of influence and psychological disorientation.

5years after school I still had fear that I could turn gay, it was a serious physcological battle.
So you cannot claim I don't have experience of having gay friends.

I have seen gays who have turned away from it and become straight , married with children. So it can been done.

[b]Like I said before there is no prove medically that people are born gay [/b]neither is it a variation as you claim.
Over 80% of the gays I have seen all suffered from one form Of sexual abuse or physical abuse.
Other causes might not be sexually in nature, it could be low self worth, poor self esteem, bullying while in school, mental issues, depression and many others,

They are all habits picked up as one grows.

njelrapheal:

So because of a feeling which over time say 10 years that a person can possibly outgrow will stir up a strong need to transgender. Because he feels like being male. Or female. What about the gene. Why don't they go ahead and change it too. I believe the stereotypes you painted of ideal men or women are actually what the feminists or an equal society should fight against. I mean it's ok not to like football as a guy or behave in certain ways which over time are sure to change and still be a man. You see, assigning a gender based on feelings or as in some cases based on some diagnosis, only serves to make such a person feel good for the time being. What then happens when that feeling changes.

advanceDNA:



U are confused....


Have u read my conversation with wounded lamb..??
If I’m an lgbtq apologist woundedlamb wouldn’t think I hate them...

WoundedLamb:


You see the first part in bold? That's all that matters. You can't know about the history and struggles of someone whom you only had to tolerate cause you had no choice. Such a person would never have you as a confidant regardless of how many years you live together. You have to connect with people to know them. I'm not trying to invalidate your experience but it just doesn't fit in here. I asked you a question "how many gay people do you have as close friends or as family members open to you?" Sincerely speaking, do you really think your room mate counts? Africans aren't open minded towards gay people. You hate them even before meeting one for the first time. They hide from you and when you eventually find out, you think you know enough about them to tell them what made them gay? It doesn't work that way.

The people you know became straight? Brother, the fact that you don't even know the gay people around you is enough to tell you wouldn't know if or when someone's sexual orientation changes. It's not written on the face and it's not a function of whom you're sleeping with at the moment. Sexuality goes beyond sex (this is one thing people don't understand). Like I said to someone above, sexuality is about the deep emotional connection you have with someone. Anybody can sleep with anyone. Straight people sleep with men for money, gay people sleep with women to cover up. But a gay man can never love a woman the way he loves a man just like you can never love a man the way you love a woman.

@second_bolded_part, actually what you said was that it has been proven nobody was born gay. Thanks for peddling it down a bit. Tell me more about gay people when you have them as friends. Otherwise, your assumptions made from a distance will remain all you've got.

advanceDNA:


U have comprehension problem....mayb u should bring out the text you read that shows I support gender reconstruction

advanceDNA:


So...??

I said trans folks should learn to love themselves the way they were created and not use chemical and surgeries to change their bodies in order to fit into mere social constructs....so how is that advocating it supporting......i even said the goverment shouldn’t support what they do... so me I don’t understand ur comprehension capacity.....mayb u are not reqding my text as a whole...

njelrapheal:

So because of a feeling which over time say 10 years that a person can possibly outgrow will stir up a strong need to transgender. Because he feels like being male. Or female. What about the gene. Why don't they go ahead and change it too . I believe the stereotypes you painted of ideal men or women are actually what the feminists or an equal society should fight against. I mean it's ok not to like football as a guy or behave in certain ways which over time are sure to change and still be a man. You see, assigning a gender based on feelings or as in some cases based on some diagnosis, only serves to make such a person feel good for the time being. What then happens when that feeling changes.

advanceDNA:


So...??

I said trans folks should learn to love themselves the way they were created and not use chemical and surgeries to change their bodies in order to fit into mere social constructs....so how is that advocating it supporting......i even said the goverment shouldn’t support what they do... so me I don’t understand ur comprehension capacity.....mayb u are not reqding my text as a whole...

WoundedLamb:


Hmm... Ok, you came in late. I wouldn't want to repeat myself but I'd try to reply nevertheless.

People who transition into other genders don't know how to be any other thing but that gender. It's almost a survival thing. A woman doesn't feel comfortable with beards, a woman does feel comfortable being flat chested, a woman doesn't feel comfortable having a deep voice, a woman doesn't feel comfortable with a bulge in-between her legs, a woman doesn't opening her legs wide while sitting, a woman doesn't comfortable with lumps of muscles and thick lips, etc. Now, Imagine one lady that has all these discomforting features at the same time. That's suicidal. That's an lifetime of sadness. And that's exactly what some men feel. They feel trapped in a body that doesn't agree with who they are. They are expected to put on men's stuff, share bathrooms with men, etc. That's hell and such a person can never be happy. We are talking about adults here. You don't outgrow who you are. You only perfect the art of pretence/camouflage.

Like I said earlier, people who transition don't just do it to look good. They don't do it for fun. They don't do it thoughtlessly. They do it to be happy. They do it to be themselves. They do it to be free. And contrary to your submission, the majority of them end up much happier with their lives. I'm against stereotypes myself. I'm against gender norms. But I know that even in the absence of those, gender will always classify us. In today's world, parents chose the sex of thier unborn kids. I don't see any reason why an adult can't have that same right over himself. You may not agree but another party cannot remain sad for a lifetime cause of your own personal convictions. Therefore, while you are well within your rights to disagree with thier decision as an observer, you shouldn't stand in the way of thier right to take that decision. We only live once.

advanceDNA:


I don’t hate transgenders...where did U get that from??

News flash, I am effeminate in a way...and I was bullied in high school that I talk like a girl......in fact I still do....did it bother me? Yes...but that doesn’t mean I should go the whole 9 yards of reconstructing my body to fit people’s opinion or acceptable behaviors...

I’m actually genuinely worried that this people are paying too high a price... all for what?
To make their body conform to society’s norm.

I’ve seen many people regretting it...becoming more depressed as sex isn’t what they hoped it would be, also taking pills forever can be overwhelming..

njelrapheal:

Well I was not late and I had read your initial responss, while I agree that the father was arrested for contempt of court, I do no agree with the picture or case you make about being suicidal because of these feelings. Go through the records of people who transgendered, it didn't put an end to their depression or suicidal thoughts, if for anything it made them worse.
About gender or nature classifying us, that has always been the way life is and while a noble effort is being made by the west to change that, they might end up destroying their society . Although I agree with you that 'they could be what ever they want to be' they don't have to foist it on others or make others adjust because of them.

blueAgent:



You have already invalidated my experience with your argument, which one is connect with them?
Do I have to sleep with gay or turn gay before I understand what they go through?
The friends and family who are gay that you know, did they say they were born that way?
If not what lead them to gayism?
You say sexuality is a deep emotional connection you have with someone, ironically you are still saying what I said before, that this is a psychological issue and should be treated as one, it is not a medical or natural occurrence what kind of emotion would cause a man to feel sexual urge for his fellow man?Does that sound normal?

You can show me proofs that people are born gay.

What is even love?


In the case of my roommate I discovered that he was abused in the Seminary school, an all boys school he attended.

blueAgent:


Are trans created that way?
Or if should rephrase it did God create trans that way?

blueAgent:



It's amazing how you can lie in broad daylight.

blueAgent:



You have already invalidated my experience with your argument, which one is connect with them?
Do I have to sleep with gay or turn gay before I understand what they go through?
The friends and family who are gay that you know, did they say they were born that way?
If not what lead them to gayism?
You say sexuality is a deep emotional connection you have with someone, ironically you are still saying what I said before, that this is a psychological issue and should be treated as one, it is not a medical or natural occurrence what kind of emotion would cause a man to feel sexual urge for his fellow man?Does that sound normal?

You can show me proofs that people are born gay.

What is even love?


In the case of my roommate I discovered that he was abused in the Seminary school, an all boys school he attended.

Sterope:
Your argument was nonsense right from the beginning. You didn't been have a good relationship with your roommate and you want to use it form experience.

His abuse doesn't matter. There are many boys that have been abused by older men. It did not stop them from creating loving families with women.

You asked why type of mediccla condition? Shouldn't you know better and tell us? You are the one invalidating their feelings after all. The spiritual aspects have failed to explain it either. Join hands with them and work something out biko.

Who said I was in a bad relationship with him?
You are already running faster than your shadows.

Which spiritual aspect has failed them?

I have seen many of them testify in Church of been saved from such lifestyle.
Do we have to jbecome gays in order to join hands with them?

advanceDNA:


I said bring it out.
..which one is lie...are we contesting for something?? Is someone going to pay us??
If you bring out where I advocated for trans, then. I’ll explain to you may be you took it out of context..

Is this not one of my comments in the first page, I’m starting to get tired of explaining myself the you...if you don’t get it....u can shove your opinion up your azz

WoundedLamb:


No, I didn't invalidate your experience. It's just not very useful in this particular context in which you've brought it up especially if you consider the question I asked that made you share the story. Having had a roommate with whom you didn't get along well doesn't really give you any insight into the life of a gay person. He might have been abused but given your relationship with him, he'd say anything to make you more sympathetic or less judgemental towards him. Like I said, people tell thier truth when they're at ease.

Sleep with them? Lol... I've said over and over again that all you need to do is to be welcoming/receptive and open minded enough to have, at least, one of them as a close friend without judging. That is the only you can understand what it means to be gay. Otherwise, you'd just be like a black man telling a white man how to tan. And to answer your question about the ones I know, yes they said so. I grew up in an environment where gay people aren't as closeted as they are in Africa. I have them as friends, colleagues, school mates, etc. These guys don't have any major event that made them gay. At puberty, they realized they were different. Some had a hard time accepting themselves but that was all about it.

There's nothing ironical here. Like I said, sexuality isn't just about sex but the emotional connection between two people. I don't have any problem with you calling it psychological. Attraction is psychological. Being straight is psychological. The point, however, is that it is not a psychological issue. It is the mother nature doing what it does best, variation (applies to virtually everything natural). What you call normal is anything common/visible around you, in this case heterosexuality. Homosexuality may not be as common but it's a valid sexuality nevertheless. Live and let live.

WoundedLamb:


No, I didn't invalidate your experience. It's just not very useful in this particular context in which you've brought it up especially if you consider the question I asked that made you share the story. Having had a roommate with whom you didn't get along well doesn't really give you any insight into the life of a gay person. He might have been abused but given your relationship with him, he'd say anything to make you more sympathetic or less judgemental towards him. Like I said, people tell thier truth when they're at ease.

Sleep with them? Lol... I've said over and over again that all you need to do is to be welcoming/receptive and open minded enough to have, at least, one of them as a close friend without judging. That is the only you can understand what it means to be gay. Otherwise, you'd just be like a black man telling a white man how to tan. And to answer your question about the ones I know, yes they said so. I grew up in an environment where gay people aren't as closeted as they are in Africa. I have them as friends, colleagues, school mates, etc. These guys don't have any major event that made them gay. At puberty, they realized they were different. Some had a hard time accepting themselves but that was all about it.

There's nothing ironical here. Like I said, sexuality isn't just about sex but the emotional connection between two people. I don't have any problem with you calling it psychological. Attraction is psychological. Being straight is psychological. The point, however, is that it is not a psychological issue. It is the mother nature doing what it does best, variation (applies to virtually everything natural). What you call normal is anything common/visible around you, in this case heterosexuality. Homosexuality may not be as common but it's a valid sexuality nevertheless. Live and let live.

blueAgent:



You have already invalidated my experience with your argument, which one is connect with them?
Do I have to sleep with gay or turn gay before I understand what they go through?
The friends and family who are gay that you know, did they say they were born that way?
If not what lead them to gayism?
You say sexuality is a deep emotional connection you have with someone, ironically you are still saying what I said before, that this is a psychological issue and should be treated as one, it is not a medical or natural occurrence what kind of emotion would cause a man to feel sexual urge for his fellow man?Does that sound normal?

You can show me proofs that people are born gay.

What is even love?


In the case of my roommate I discovered that he was abused in the Seminary school, an all boys school he attended.