What surprised me about the op the writer of the book was pure white who don't know anything about black history always saying nonsense about black history. The op failed to read and understand the claims of the writer instead to debunk the claims he is now supporting the content.

StaffofOrayan:
Your threads are always devoid of common sense,
When the British came, you mean the indigenous people didn't know about Oduduwa or that they are all from the same roots?
In your stupid attempt to defend one Nigeria, you would type anything!

[In Africa], however, racial strategies were unsuited for the task at hand since a black majority with a united race consciousness would pose a threat to white minority control. European powers therefore turned towards a tribal strategy of creating and enforcing divisions in the majority. They entrenched the “tribe” as the basis of social, economic and political life through a policy known as indirect rule.

Can you understand what the bolded means and why Nigeria was created? or are you too slow to understand what you copied and pasted?

johnmartus:
Please where do you got this source from.

I posted the links to all sources.

johnmartus:
What surprised me about the op the writer of the book was pure white who don't know anything about black history always saying nonsense about black history. The op failed to read and understand the claims of the writer instead to debunk the claims he is now supporting the content.

Knowing African history is not a question of your skin colour, otherwise we would all be African history professors on this site.

History is learned through study of the subject-matter, and research.

Plus I quoted several researchers, not just one.

There is actually no dispute over these facts in academic circles.

those claiming opposite view with the op on this very topic are only doing it to claim worth of unity among his tribe in ancient time especially when talking about Igbo and Yoruba people

the fact that the Yorubas never had a word that generalized the entire people in those days as one was the reason Benin military could come to akure cast war on them and the nearest owo man will sit comfortable in his land saying "its not my concern"

this unarguably shows the people never have that unity in precolonial era even in the east


I could argue with anyone that the Edo's had a unifying tribal name in precolonial era before many Nigeria tribes today

the topic is educating nice one op

Etrusen:
those claiming opposite view with the op on this very topic are only doing it to claim worth of unity among his tribe in ancient time especially when talking about Igbo and Yoruba people

the fact that the Yorubas never had a word that generalized the entire people in those days as one was the reason Benin military could come to akure cast war on them and the nearest owo man will sit comfortable in his land saying "its not my concern"

this unarguably shows the people never have that unity in precolonial era even in the east


I could argue with anyone that the Edo's had a unifying tribal name in precolonial era before many Nigeria tribes today

the topic is educating nice one op

What of the war between Oyo and Ilorin? Akure was a kingdom on it's own. If it had ask for help from owo kingdom, maybe they would have come to their aid.

Mr man stop trolling whites that not step to Africa that writing about black history wouldn't have valid evidence to back his claims. As an Historian you can't based your work on oral history and thinking people will believe your work. Primitive societies have long relied on oral tradition to preserve a record of the past in the absence of written histories. In Western society, the use of oral material wasn't much available like Africa.

Rosskiiku:


Knowing African history is not a question of your skin colour, otherwise we would all be African history professors on this site.

History is learned through study of the subject matter, and research.

capitalzero:

I put samuel Johnson as a source of reliable information on history. Can u pls tell me your source of your useless theory ? You are spinning out rubbish theory that you cannot defend among scholars. What is a tribe?
Define ethnicity?
Keep on blaming colonial master for your woe and misery.

.

The Scottish wants their own independence, the Irish never wanted a Union with the English, or you think the French and Italians could stay together
Austrians and Germans fought themselves for centuries, Portuguese and Spain the same thing.
But they came to Africa and did what they themselves couldn't stomach, forcing people among themselves for their selfish desire
They caused the problem but this generation of enlightened Africans can start righting the wrong

Parachoko:
What of the war between Oyo and Ilorin? Akure was a kingdom on it's own. If it had ask for help from owo kingdom, maybe they would have come to their aid.

this war among themselves only shows how divided they were

one thing I want you to understand is that

the Yoruba for example of akure and owo ordinarily speak the same language no doubt but the argument is that in those days

an owo man regard himself as an owo speaking man same with an akure man..,.

this is a prefect resemblance to saxons and Danes but today they are all English


there was nothing like Yoruba or igbo being use to generalise them in precolonial era like Edo had.

however, racial strategies were unsuited for the task at hand since a black majority with a united race consciousness would pose a threat to white minority control. European powers therefore turned towards a tribal strategy of creating and enforcing divisions in the majority. They entrenched the “tribe” as the basis of social, economic and political life through a policy known as indirect rule.

What do you think the British meant by division of the majority? Majority what?
Speaking English doesn't make you related to king Edward but you need a command of English to become a British citizen!
Every country is created on a myth and for the British its mythical dragons, Infact the British royalty would look you in the eyes and tell you they are descendants of dragons and Merlin was a real magician,

The creation of things like Niger Delta, North Central is the division they were talking about, people living in those regions are the biggest one Nigerians you can ever find.... It was designed that way, they have been cut off from their source

Rosskiiku:


What ''indigenous people'' are you referring to?

No one actually knows who the hell Oduduwa really was or when he actually lived. In precolonial times many people claimed to be descended from 'Oduduwa'. Even the Kanuris!

Meaning that ancestral connection to Oduduwa WAS NOT LANGUAGE-BASED. It was LINEAGE based, and the same lineage of people could speak several different languages over time depending on where they settled!

So it is a colonialism derived LIE that only Yoruba speakers are descendants of Oduduwa!

As explained by scholars: ''Certain other peoples have claimed a connection to Oduduwa. According to the Kanuri, Yauri, Gobir, Acipu, Jukun and Borgu tribes - whose founding ancestors were said to be Oduduwa's brothers (as recorded in the early 20th century by Samuel Johnson), Oduduwa was the son of Damerudu, whom Yoruba call either Lamurudu or Lamerudu, [whom some call NIMROD of the bible!] a prince who was himself the son of the magician King Kisra. Kisra and his allies are said to have fought Mohammed in the Battle of Badr. Kisra was forced to migrate from Arabia into Africa after losing the war to the jihadists in 624 AD. He and his followers founded many kingdoms and ruling dynasties along their migration route into West Africa. This tradition is a variant of the belief that held that Oduduwa was a prince originating from Mecca.''

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oduduwa

So any attachment to an individual named 'Oduduwa' is based more on myth and belief than actual verifiable ancestry.

This dissonance is reinforced by the fact that numerous Yoruba speaking communities today comprise descendants of ancient settlers from other parts of Nigeria, such as Igbo speaking regions! And vice versa.

So anyone claiming direct ancestry to 'Oduduwa' today is merely indulging in mythology, and propagating an unfounded belief which may or may not be true. There are no traceable lineage, DNA, or ancestral links to such a figure, whose period of existence is itself disputed.

And merely being a Yoruba speaker does not establish such links, for the aforementioned reasons, any more than my being an English speaker means I am related to King Edward the 5th of England.




I full understand what is being said. The question we should ask is DO YOU understand what is being said?

Etrusen:



this war among themselves only shows how divided they were

one thing I want you to understand is that

the Yoruba for example of akure and owo ordinarily speak the same language no doubt but the argument is that in those days

an owo man regard himself as an owo speaking man same with an akure man..,.

this is a prefect resemblance to saxons and Danes but today they are all English


there was nothing like Yoruba or igbo being use to generalise them in precolonial era like Edo had.

Yorubas of owo and Akure do not speak the same language. You're talking out of point bro. Edo is not a name of an ethnic group or tribe.

Most Yorubas trace their ancestry to Ife. The Oyo Ilorin war was caused by a Fulani man taking over power in ilorin and he tried to expand his kingdom into other Yorubas kingdom.

Oyo was controling most part of Yoruba land, it was after some part decided to stop paying royalty to Oyo kingdom that led to a civil war called the kiriji war.

There was a time German were not United. They had different kingdoms before they were united.

Rossupti:
There Were No 'Tribes' In Nigeria Before Colonialism. Discuss.

Before the British interruption of our existence, there was no concept of belonging to a 'tribe' or an 'ethnic group' in Nigeria.

The idea that speaking Igbo made you an 'Igbo man' was non-existent.

The idea that speaking Yoruba made you a 'Yoruba man' was non-existent.

The idea that speaking Hausa made you a 'Hausa man' was non-existent.

What identified you was your ancestry.

NOT the language you spoke.

An Egba man did not regard himself as being of one group as an Ijebu man, or a man from Kwara, even though they all spoke the Yoruba language.

Likewise an Arochukwu man did not consider himself of the same ''Igbo tribe'' as a man from Okigwe or Onitsha.

This was why in the pre-colonial era, we had many WARS within those groups.

They did NOT regard themselves as single, united entities with shared ancestry. Because they were not.

It was the BRITISH who invented the idea that all those who spoke one language belonged to one ''tribe'' OR ''ethnic group''.

They did this in order to create BLOCS OF DIVISION among previously integrated, fluid peoples. (Divide and rule)

Sociologically and anthropologically, the language-based 'tribe' concept made no sense, because there was so much migration in precolonial times that one group of Igbo speakers could migrate to an area peopled by Yoruba speakers, and within a generation or two, they would turn Yoruba speakers themselves, and forget all about the Igbo language, and vice versa. This happened ALL OVER 'Nigeria' countless times over many centuries.

There are many people today who consider themselves 'Yoruba', who actually have their true ancestry traceable to Eastern Nigeria.

Just as there are many who call themselves 'Igbo' today, whose ancestors migrated from Yoruba speaking territories, less than 200 or 300 years ago.

It is time we DITCH the COLONIAL INVENTION called ''tribe''.

IT IS COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY MEANINGLESS, AND A FRAUDULENT COLONIAL IMPOSITION.

.



True to some extent but depends on locations. Having affinities among group of people bonded more than language, people sharing same deities, ancestral lineage, having common tabbos were always close

Parachoko:
Yorubas of owo and Akure do not speak the same language. You're talking out of point bro. Edo is not a name of an ethnic group or tribe.

Most Yorubas trace their ancestry to Ife. The Oyo Ilorin war was caused by a Fulani man taking over power in ilorin and he tried to expand his kingdom into other Yorubas kingdom.

Oyo was controling most part of Yoruba land, it was after some part decided to stop paying royalty to Oyo kingdom that led to a civil war called the kiriji war.

There was a time German were not United. They had different kingdoms before they were united.

do you know that Benin was and is still called Edo before colonial period came or do you know that no edo man call himself Benin man except Edo man ?

before Germany became united, do all region called themselves German?


mr man don't let your emotions or love for your tribe keep you away from the truth

me saying akure and owo speak the same language is just to make my example clearer being that they have all adopted to be called Yoruba...

nothing more

Etrusen:



this war among themselves only shows how divided they were

one thing I want you to understand is that

the Yoruba for example of akure and owo ordinarily speak the same language no doubt but the argument is that in those days

an owo man regard himself as an owo speaking man same with an akure man..,.

this is a prefect resemblance to saxons and Danes but today they are all English


there was nothing like Yoruba or igbo being use to generalise them in precolonial era like Edo had.

Nice one bro.

You completely understand.

Etrusen:




do you know that Benin was and is still called Edo before colonial period came or do you know that no edo man call himself Benin man except Edo man ?

before Germany became united, do all region called themselves German?


mr man don't let your emotions or love for your tribe keep you away from the truth

me saying akure and owo speak the same language is just to make my example clearer being that they have all adopted to be called Yoruba...

nothing more

Do you know my tribe? Though I think owo was under the control of Akure.

They all saw themselves as German under different kingdoms. They do come together sometimes to fight the Romans.

Someone United them all under one country.

The British didn't make the mistake of classifying the Yorubas and Nupes under one ethnic group.

If the British didn't do it, a Yoruba man from maybe ijebu might have rise up, and go to war with other Yoruba kingdom to merge them as one United Yoruba kingdom with maybe Ijebu ode been the capital.

Parachoko:
Do you know my tribe? An owo man will find it hard to understand an Akure man. Though I think owo was under the control of Akure.

They all saw themselves as German under different kingdoms. They do come together sometimes to fight the Romans.

Someone United them all under one country. The British didn't make the mistake of classifying the Yorubas and Nupes under one ethnic group.

let's ilaje for instance

the believe is that we speak ilaje even when the language is close to other present day Yoruba

there was word like Yoruba describing the present day Yoruba as YORUBA in precolonial era

just like you being an owo man


coming to fight that you are saying is a common thing in war strategy

the Saxon made alliance with the welsh ( wales ) to fight the Danes

alliance is a war strategy that doesn't make you one outside the war except when the both parties involve decide to uphold oneness just like Yoruba of post colonial era

StaffofOrayan:
Your threads are always devoid of common sense,
When the British came, you mean the indigenous people didn't know about Oduduwa or that they are all from the same roots?
In your stupid attempt to defend one Nigeria, you would type anything!

[In Africa], however, racial strategies were unsuited for the task at hand since a black majority with a united race consciousness would pose a threat to white minority control. European powers therefore turned towards a tribal strategy of creating and enforcing divisions in the majority. They entrenched the “tribe” as the basis of social, economic and political life through a policy known as indirect rule.

Can you understand what the bolded means and why Nigeria was created? or are you too slow to understand what you copied and pasted?

@Rossupti, this guy just asked a question. Look at the bolded. If there were no unity among the majority, what then did the British colonialists strived to divide?

In one breath you claimed there were no unity among Nigerian clans before the whites came, then in another breath you claim the white created tribes to divide a united indigenous population.

Which do we follow?

gwafaeziokwu:



@Rossupti, this guy just asked a question. Look at the bolded. If there were no unity among the majority, what then did the British colonialists strived to divide?

In one breath you claimed there were no unity among Nigerian clans before the whites came, then in another breath you claim the white created tribes to divide a united indigenous population.

Which do we follow?

You misunderstand what that quote is saying. The writer was comparing the race situation in AMERICA with that of Africa, and was saying that the colonialists could not afford to have a united black majority in their African territories, ie since blacks comprised the majority in those territories, they could not afford to have them unite as one group of blacks in opposition to colonial rule.

Hence their need to create 'tribal divisions'. This was why they created these artificial language-based 'tribes', to create BLOCS OF DIVISION which would prevent the black majority from unifying against them. Instead, they would compete against one another in rivalries for access to state resources.

And their plan succeeded, and still succeeds today actually, if you look at it...

Etrusen:




let's ilaje for instance

the believe is that we speak ilaje even when the language is close to other present day Yoruba

there was word like Yoruba describing the present day Yoruba as YORUBA in precolonial era

just like you being an owo man


coming to fight that you are saying is a common thing in war strategy

the Saxon made alliance with the welsh ( wales ) to fight the Danes

alliance is a war strategy that doesn't make you one outside the war except when the both parties involve decide to uphold oneness just like Yoruba of post colonial era

I won't still agree with you though. During the Oyo and Ilorin war, the Dahomeans turned their back on Oyo and even attacked the Oyo kingdom, the Benin kingdom didn't come to their aid too. It was the Yorubas kingdom that rose up and helped each other.

My point is that, an Igbo man in Nnewi would see an Igbo man from Owerri or ikwerre from PH as his brother rather than agreeing to be the brother of an efik man from Cross River state back then.

If not for the British, Nigeria won't have existed. But the possibility of an Igbo state, Hausa state etc is very high.

I think op is mixing up some things here, for example there is limited mobility in precolonial times.
And mobility actually plays a lot in homogeneity. A yoruba man from Owo most definitely feels more intone with an Akure man than he does an edo person. But lack of adequate mobility( physical immobility, mental immobility, and spiritual immobility) actually plays a lot in their hesitancy towards homogeneity.

This same hesitancy toward unity plays out every where among blacks, will the op say blacks are not a different race to others?
The thing is the caucasians moved a little ahead of the times, when they discovered writing, and the importance of record keeping. Ideally the world as a whole is just moving into the homogeneous state of mind.

So next time op look at the world through the eye of an universal being and not through a colonised eye.

Parachoko:
I won't still agree with you though. During the Oyo and Ilorin war, the Dahomeans turned their back on Oyo and even attacked the Oyo kingdom, the Benin kingdom didn't come to their aid too. It was the Yorubas kingdom that rose up and helped each other.

My point is that, an Igbo man in Nnewi would see an Igbo man from Owerri or ikwerre from PH as his brother rather than agreeing to be the brother of an efik man from Cross River state back then.

If not for the British, Nigeria won't have existed. But the possibility of an Igbo state, Hausa state etc is very high.

it's been pleasure talking to you have a nice day

DFOmobolla:
I think op is mixing up some things here, for example there is limited mobility in precolonial times.
And mobility actually plays a lot in homogeneity. A yoruba man from Owo most definitely feels more intone with an Akure man than he does an edo person. But lack of adequate mobility( physical immobility, mental immobility, and spiritual immobility) actually plays a lot in their hesitancy towards homogeneity.

This same hesitancy toward unity plays out every where among blacks, will the op say blacks are not a different race to others?
The thing is the caucasians moved a little ahead of the times, when they discovered writing, and the importance of record keeping. Ideally the world as a whole is just moving into the homogeneous state of mind.

So next time op look at the world through the eye of an universal being and not through a colonised eye.

Firstly I've no clue what you're talking about white people ''discovering writing''.

Black Africans invented writing thousands of years before any white people could write.

The Sankore University in Timbuktu, Mali, was just one of the many universities that were in Africa long before they were any in Europe.

In fact, black African Moors took literacy and education to many parts of Europe starting from the 11th century up till the 16th, which was what led to their exit from their 'Dark Ages' into the Renaissance, a prelude to the Industrial Revolution.

Secondly, there was NOT ''limited mobility during precolonial times''.

People did A LOT of travelling and migrating in search of arable land and water. Many migrated from the Nile Valley, as a result of desertification and foreign invasions. The entire West Africa was in a state of flux for several hundred years before colonisation, and migration was the order of the day.

There is almost no village that you will visit today in Nigeria where they will not tell you they migrated from somewhere else in the last few hundred years.

Rossupti:


Where is the EVIDENCE of this Igbo 'unity' before the colonial interregnum?

There is a LOT of evidence of 'absence of unity' however. The numerous wars within Igbo speaking areas are a case in point.

Heck, one clan regarded another clan 2 kilometres away as a totally different country.

So what 'unity' are you talking about?

People sharing a common ancestry generally do not go to war against each other (and most certainly not at the slightest provocation).

Read what happened in Achebe's Things Fall Apart, which is a historical novel that is anthropologically accurate.

Ogbuefi Ezeugo, an elder of Umuofia, relating an incident involving the nearby village of Mbaino, said to a crowd of 10,000 Umuofians,

“These sons of wild animals have dared to murder a daughter of Umuofia.”…And in a clear unemotional voice he told Umuofia how their daughter had gone to market at Mbaino and had been killed."

[Ogbuefi Ezeugo] threw his head down and gnashed his teeth, and allowed a murmur of suppressed anger to sweep the crowd. When he began again, the anger on his face was gone and in its place a sort of smile hovered, more terrible and more sinister than the anger. And in a clear unemotional voice he told Umuofia how their daughter had gone to market at Mbaino and had been killed. That woman, said Ezeugo, was the wife of Ogbuefi Udo, and he pointed to a man who sat near him with a bowed head. The crowd then shouted with anger and thirst for blood.''

I mean, the people of Umuofia were ready to go to WAR with the neighbouring clan, based on a relatively mundane incident.

The only thing that prevented a descent to bloodshed was Okonkwo, the Umuofian, 'travelling' to Mbaino and demanding that they surrender a virgin and a young man in order to avoid war with Umuofia, to which they complied.

The young man, Ikemefuna, was later killed in Umuofia in recompense.

This kind of thing went on across all the Igbo-speaking areas. There was no 'unity'.

The united Igbo 'tribe' you have today is a 100% colonial, British creation.

Same as the other 'tribes' in Nigeria.

You didn't read Things fall apart well or you simply chose to qoute a small part to support you unfounded assertions.

When Mbaino caused trouble by killing the daughter of Umuofia ,they asked for serious trouble and it was by no means "mundane". Spilling of blood is an abomination but more grave when it is an 'Ada' daughter of the soil. If your cousin brother fights and kill your sister would you consider it "mundane"? Is such a crime not capable of causing bad blood between your two families?

Now, Okonkwo's mother was from Mbanta another different clan from Umuofia just like Mbaino was. When Umuofia sent Okonkwo on an exile as punishment for manslaughter where did he head to? Mbanta. Did they recieve him ? Yes. Was there much culture shock?No. Basically they were united in many things but still maintains fierce independence in keeping their clan.

Did you read the account of what the white men did to Abame , who are present day Abam people in Abia state.

Now listen to Uchendu the old man as he adressed Okonkwo and Obierika in pg 109-110

"My son(Okonkwo ) has told me about you (Obierika) and I am happy you have come to see us. I knew your father, Iweka. He was a great man. He had many friends here and came to see them quite often. Those were good old days when a man has friends in distant clans. Your generation does not know that. You stay at home afraid of your next door neighbour. Even a man's motherland is strange to him nowadays"


Pg 110, he continued.

"Yes people travelled more in those days. There is not a single clan in these parts that I do not know very well. Aninta, Umuazu, Ikeocha, Elumelu, Abame- I know them all."

"Have you heard? Asked Obierika, 'that Abame is no more?'
'How is that? asked Uchendu and Okonkwo.
"It is a strange and terrible story. If I had not seen the few survivors with my eyes and heard their story with my own ears, I would not have believed. [b]Was is not on Eke market day that they fled to Umuofia? [/b]He asked his two companions.


Survivors of British invasion of Abame, found refuge in Umuofia and many other clans and were well received. People felt sympathy towards their plight. Why didn't Abame people move towards let's say Yoruba land?


Before the British people came to Igbo land, we were aware of each other existence. Many people travelled from present day Anambra state to go and consult Aro shrine in faraway Abia state. We knew the happenings in all clans far and near because we share market days. We knew for example when each clan had their new yam festivals celebration. We knew the hottest masquerade festivals and people leave their clans and travel for hours or even days to attend and return to their clans. News about what was happening in most of the Igbo clans always filter in because we were interested in each other well being. Yet, that doesn't mean that we will allow you to cross boundaries. We were republican so everyone maintained their space.

Do more research before you run to town with half truths.

Parachoko:
I won't still agree with you though. During the Oyo and Ilorin war, the Dahomeans turned their back on Oyo and even attacked the Oyo kingdom, the Benin kingdom didn't come to their aid too. It was the Yorubas kingdom that rose up and helped each other.

My point is that, an Igbo man in Nnewi would see an Igbo man from Owerri or ikwerre from PH as his brother rather than agreeing to be the brother of an efik man from Cross River state back then.

If not for the British, Nigeria won't have existed. But the possibility of an Igbo state, Hausa state etc is very high.

Very apt.

Rosskiiku:


Firstly I've no clue what you're talking about white people ''discovering writing''.

Black Africans invented writing thousands of years before any white people could write.

The Sankore University in Timbuktu, Mali, was just one of the many universities that were in Africa long before they were any in Europe.

In fact, black African Moors took literacy and education to many parts of Europe starting from the 11th century up till the 16th, which was what led to their exit from their 'Dark Ages' into the Renaissance, a prelude to the Industrial Revolution.

Secondly, there was NOT ''limited mobility during precolonial times''.

People did A LOT of travelling and migrating in search of arable land and water. Many migrated from the Nile Valley, as a result of desertification and foreign invasions. The entire West Africa was in a state of flux for several hundred years before colonisation, and migration was the order of the day.

There is almost no village that you will visit today in Nigeria where they will not tell you they migrated from somewhere else in the last few hundred years.

Lol, calm down bro.
Discovery in that context is not invention. You will agree with me invention of writing by whoever did, benefited Europeans more than anybody. Its the bedrock of their development.


Your interpretation of mobility is really off. The level of mobility in an area is directly proportional to its development.
In the olden days mobility is often restricted to necessity, demands that outways immobility.

And back to the topic, in does days there are less use of the mind, imagination, or one's mentality, so the concept of ethnicity was not well developed. But it was there, thats why the fulani were defeated in the jalomi war, where different tribes of the same ethnic group came together.

StaffofOrayan:
Your threads are always devoid of common sense,
When the British came, you mean the indigenous people didn't know about Oduduwa or that they are all from the same roots?
In your stupid attempt to defend one Nigeria, you would type anything!

[In Africa], however, racial strategies were unsuited for the task at hand since a black majority with a united race consciousness would pose a threat to white minority control. European powers therefore turned towards a tribal strategy of creating and enforcing divisions in the majority. They entrenched the “tribe” as the basis of social, economic and political life through a policy known as indirect rule.

Can you understand what the bolded means and why Nigeria was created? or are you too slow to understand what you copied and pasted?

Lmao. That guy is so deluded with his stories all just to defend one Nigeria. Even with the hatred he had for Igbos, he still used them as example. Why didn't he use his own tribe? Such a waste of time engaging him.

Rossupti:


Where is the EVIDENCE of this Igbo 'unity' before the colonial interregnum?

There is a LOT of evidence of 'absence of unity' however. The numerous wars within Igbo speaking areas are a case in point.

Heck, one clan regarded another clan 2 kilometres away as a totally different country.

So what 'unity' are you talking about?

People sharing a common ancestry generally do not go to war against each other (and most certainly not at the slightest provocation).

Read what happened in Achebe's Things Fall Apart, which is a historical novel that is anthropologically accurate.

Ogbuefi Ezeugo, an elder of Umuofia, relating an incident involving the nearby village of Mbaino, said to a crowd of 10,000 Umuofians,

“These sons of wild animals have dared to murder a daughter of Umuofia.”…And in a clear unemotional voice he told Umuofia how their daughter had gone to market at Mbaino and had been killed."

[Ogbuefi Ezeugo] threw his head down and gnashed his teeth, and allowed a murmur of suppressed anger to sweep the crowd. When he began again, the anger on his face was gone and in its place a sort of smile hovered, more terrible and more sinister than the anger. And in a clear unemotional voice he told Umuofia how their daughter had gone to market at Mbaino and had been killed. That woman, said Ezeugo, was the wife of Ogbuefi Udo, and he pointed to a man who sat near him with a bowed head. The crowd then shouted with anger and thirst for blood.''

I mean, the people of Umuofia were ready to go to WAR with the neighbouring clan, based on a relatively mundane incident.

The only thing that prevented a descent to bloodshed was Okonkwo, the Umuofian, 'travelling' to Mbaino and demanding that they surrender a virgin and a young man in order to avoid war with Umuofia, to which they complied.

The young man, Ikemefuna, was later killed in Umuofia in recompense.

This kind of thing went on across all the Igbo-speaking areas. There was no 'unity'.

The united Igbo 'tribe' you have today is a 100% colonial, British creation.

Same as the other 'tribes' in Nigeria.

that’s because there was a no central body controlling these communities... today we have UN.. will you then say nationalism never existed until the creation of United Nations.. cos before then nations attack each other with the slightest provocations.. but now things are being sorted out at the general sittings..

DFOmobolla:


Lol, calm down bro.
Discovery in that context is not invention. You will agree with me invention of writing by whoever did, benefited Europeans more than anybody. Its the bedrock of their development.


Your interpretation of mobility is really off. The level of mobility in an area is directly proportional to its development.
In the olden days mobility is often restricted to necessity, demands that outways immobility.

And back to the topic, in those days there are less use of the mind, imagination, or one's mentality, so the concept of ethnicity was not well developed. But it was there, thats why the fulani were defeated in the jalomi war, where different tribes of the same ethnic group came together.

Are you out of your mind?

Regarding the highlighted, you clearly do not know your history.

If anything there was FAR MORE ''use of the mind, imagination, and one's mentality'' in PRE-COLONIAL Africa than there is today, in post-colonial Africa, when you've been trained by the white man to depend on him for everything you do, think, or say.
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Brief report about the great city of Benin, by the UK's Guardian newspaper:

Benin City, the mighty medieval capital now lost without trace

With its mathematical layout and earthworks longer than the Great Wall of China, Benin City was one of the best planned cities in the world when London was a place of ‘thievery and murder’.

This is the story of a lost medieval city you’ve probably never heard about. Benin City, originally known as Edo, was once the capital of a pre-colonial African empire located in what is now southern Nigeria. The Benin empire was one of the oldest and most highly developed states in west Africa, dating back to the 11th century.

The Guinness Book of Records (1974 edition) described the walls of Benin City and its surrounding kingdom as the world’s largest earthworks carried out prior to the mechanical era. According to estimates by the New Scientist’s Fred Pearce, Benin City’s walls were at one point “four times longer than the Great Wall of China, and consumed a hundred times more material than the Great Pyramid of Cheops”.

Situated on a plain, Benin City was enclosed by massive walls in the south and deep ditches in the north. Beyond the city walls, numerous further walls were erected that separated the surroundings of the capital into around 500 distinct villages.

Pearce writes that these walls “extended for some 16,000 km in all, in a mosaic of more than 500 interconnected settlement boundaries. They covered 6,500 sq km and were all dug by the Edo people … They took an estimated 150 million hours of digging to construct, and are perhaps the largest single archaeological phenomenon on the planet”

Benin City was also one of the first cities [on earth] to have a semblance of street lighting. Huge metal lamps, many feet high, were built and placed around the city, especially near the king’s palace. Fuelled by palm oil, their burning wicks were lit at night to provide illumination for traffic to and from the palace.

When the Portuguese first “discovered” the city in 1485, they were stunned to find this vast kingdom made of hundreds of interlocked cities and villages in the middle of the African jungle. They called it the “Great City of Benin”, at a time when there were hardly any other places in Africa the Europeans acknowledged as a city. Indeed, they classified Benin City as one of the most beautiful and best planned cities in the world.

In 1691, the Portuguese ship captain Lourenco Pinto observed: “Great Benin, where the king resides, is larger than Lisbon; all the streets run straight and as far as the eye can see. The houses are large, especially that of the king, which is richly decorated and has fine columns. The city is wealthy and industrious. It is so well governed that theft is unknown and the people live in such security that they have no doors to their houses.”

In contrast, London at the same time is described by Bruce Holsinger, professor of English at the University of Virginia, as being a city of “thievery, prostitution, murder, bribery and a thriving black market made the medieval city ripe for exploitation by those with a skill for the quick blade or picking a pocket”.

African fractals

Benin City’s planning and design was done according to careful rules of symmetry, proportionality and repetition now known as fractal design. The mathematician Ron Eglash, author of African Fractals – which examines the patterns underpinning architecture, art and design in many parts of Africa – notes that the city and its surrounding villages were purposely laid out to form perfect fractals, with similar shapes repeated in the rooms of each house, and the house itself, and the clusters of houses in the village in mathematically predictable patterns.

As he puts it: “When Europeans first came to Africa, they considered the architecture very disorganised and thus primitive. It never occurred to them that the Africans might have been using a form of mathematics that they hadn’t even discovered yet.”


At the centre of the city stood the king’s court, from which extended 30 very straight, broad streets, each about 120-ft wide. These main streets, which ran at right angles to each other, had underground drainage made of a sunken impluvium with an outlet to carry away storm water. Many narrower side and intersecting streets extended off them. In the middle of the streets were turf on which animals fed.

“Houses are built alongside the streets in good order, the one close to the other,” writes the 17th-century Dutch visitor Olfert Dapper. “Adorned with gables and steps … they are usually broad with long galleries inside, especially so in the case of the houses of the nobility, and divided into many rooms which are separated by walls made of red clay, very well erected.”

Dapper adds that wealthy residents kept these walls “as shiny and smooth by washing and rubbing as any wall in Holland can be made with chalk, and they are like mirrors. The upper storeys are made of the same sort of clay. Moreover, every house is provided with a well for the supply of fresh water”.

At the height of its greatness in the 12th century – well before the start of the European Renaissance – the kings and nobles of Benin City patronised craftsmen and lavished them with gifts and wealth, in return for their depiction of the kings’ and dignitaries’ great exploits in intricate bronze sculptures.

“These works from Benin are equal to the very finest examples of European casting technique,” wrote Professor Felix von Luschan, formerly of the Berlin Ethnological Museum. “Benvenuto Celini could not have cast them better, nor could anyone else before or after him. Technically, these bronzes represent the very highest possible achievement.”

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/mar/18/story-of-cities-5-benin-city-edo-nigeria-mighty-medieval-capital-lost-without-trace
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Still think your ancestors ''did not use their minds and imagination''?

You should APOLOGISE for that comment.

Not to me, but to them, before they do you harm!

ETHNICITY was not language-based. It was based on ancestry and lineage. And THAT had NOTHING to do with ''undeveloped minds'' and ''poor imaginations'', but with absolute REALITY, of which THEY were aware, and YOU today are not, because of the colonial influence on YOUR ''mind''.

gwafaeziokwu:



You didn't read Things fall apart well or you simply chose to quote a small part to support you unfounded assertions.

The 'assertions' are not mine alone as you can read from the various scholarly research I posted in support.

Can you locate any studies which argue against those findings?

Nope...

When Mbaino caused trouble by killing the daughter of Umuofia ,they asked for serious trouble and it was by no means "mundane". Spilling of blood is an abomination but more grave when it is an 'Ada' daughter of the soil. If your cousin brother fights and kill your sister would you consider it "mundane"? Is such a crime not capable of causing bad blood between your two families?

It will cause bad blood between families, but it would not lead to all out war, or a demand for a virgin and a young man to kill as recompense.

That is the action of independent, sovereign nations, NOT ''blood brothers''.

It is similar to what would happen TODAY if Ghanaians killed a Nigerian unjustly and Nigeria demanded compensation on threat of war. In fact Nigeria wouldn't go that far. So if anything we feel more related to Ghana than your Igbo-speaking ancestral villages felt to one another.

Now, Okonkwo's mother was from Mbanta another different clan from Umuofia just like Mbaino was. When Umuofia sent Okonkwo on an exile as punishment for manslaughter where did he head to? Mbanta. Did they receive him ? Yes. Was there much culture shock? No. Basically they were united in many things but still maintains fierce independence in keeping their clan.

Did you read the account of what the white men did to Abame , who are present day Abam people in Abia state.

Now listen to Uchendu the old man as he addressed Okonkwo and Obierika in pg 109-110

"My son(Okonkwo ) has told me about you (Obierika) and I am happy you have come to see us. I knew your father, Iweka. He was a great man. He had many friends here and came to see them quite often. Those were good old days when a man has friends in distant clans. Your generation does not know that. You stay at home afraid of your next door neighbour. Even a man's motherland is strange to him nowadays"


Pg 110, he continued.

"Yes people travelled more in those days. There is not a single clan in these parts that I do not know very well. Aninta, Umuazu, Ikeocha, Elumelu, Abame- I know them all."

"Have you heard? Asked Obierika, 'that Abame is no more?'
'How is that? asked Uchendu and Okonkwo.
"It is a strange and terrible story. If I had not seen the few survivors with my eyes and heard their story with my own ears, I would not have believed. Was is not on Eke market day that they fled to Umuofia? He asked his two companions.

Africans travelled around and migrated aplenty in precolonial times.

We are not saying they did not know about each other. They just did not regard themselves as belonging to a single 'Igbo' or 'Yoruba' ethnicity etc.

It's like how we travel today. I go to Kano, Kaduna, Lagos, Jos, Aba, Abuja etc for business and pleasure. It doesn't mean I think I belong to a singe ethnic group as the people in those places.

Survivors of British invasion of Abame, found refuge in Umuofia and many other clans and were well received. People felt sympathy towards their plight. Why didn't Abame people move towards let's say Yoruba land?

Don't be ridiculous. They moved to the nearest safe locale, and THAT would not have been a Yoruba speaking region

Before the British people came to Igbo land, we were aware of each other existence. Many people travelled from present day Anambra state to go and consult Aro shrine in faraway Abia state. We knew the happenings in all clans far and near because we share market days. We knew for example when each clan had their new yam festivals celebration. We knew the hottest masquerade festivals and people leave their clans and travel for hours or even days to attend and return to their clans. News about what was happening in most of the Igbo clans always filter in because we were interested in each other well being. Yet, that doesn't mean that we will allow you to cross boundaries. We were republican so everyone maintained their space.

Do more research before you run to town with half truths.

None of what you've typed obviates the ''fierce independence'' of each of those clans.

THAT is the crux of the matter.

''Fierce independence''.

'Fierce independence' is the language of people who do not share a common lineage, and know it.

Common lineage tends towards consolidation and centralisation of authority, NOT fragmentation and splintering into autonomous chiefdoms.

Ethnic group dey every where in the world.

In some countries ethnic groups disappearing.
That is not good.

DFOmobolla:
I think op is mixing up some things here, for example there is limited mobility in precolonial times.
And mobility actually plays a lot in homogeneity. A yoruba man from Owo most definitely feels more intone with an Akure man than he does an edo person. But lack of adequate mobility( physical immobility, mental immobility, and spiritual immobility) actually plays a lot in their hesitancy towards homogeneity.

This same hesitancy toward unity plays out every where among blacks, will the op say blacks are not a different race to others?
The thing is the caucasians moved a little ahead of the times, when they discovered writing, and the importance of record keeping. Ideally the world as a whole is just moving into the homogeneous state of mind.

So next time op look at the world through the eye of an universal being and not through a colonised eye.

Oga please writing was discovered by black Africans. Nobody is disputing this. We read this way back in school. Please if you have any source that claim otherwise quote it here. Numbers started as a result of the trade between Egyptians (black Egyptians) and Sumerians (Arabs). Record keeping started in Egypt. There is nobody disputing these facts. These are common knowledge for those that studied history and library science

gaddafe:


Oga please writing was discovered by black Africans. Nobody is disputing this. We read this way back in school. Please if you have any source that claim otherwise quote it here. Numbers started as a result of the trade between Egyptians (black Egyptians) and Sumerians (Arabs). Record keeping started in Egypt. There is nobody disputing these facts. These are common knowledge for those that studied history and library science

Writing was invented not discovered, its not a house or a river Niger. I think one of the big problems of Africans is the misinterpretation of Europeans especially their language in this 21st century.