PrincessGlow:

1. Now compare your 1 to your 3. Don't they contradict? That's the point my brother, God’s words are spiritually mainly in your heart. Which is why you should not keep insisting on every dot and comma of the Bible. I asked you before, how are you sure what is in the Bible is exactly what came out of His mouth.

2. God does not work like that. The spirit realm does not work like that. There's akways an exchange.. Otherwisw God would have been wiping Israel sins away as soon as they asked!

3. You are finally getting it

1. I am afraid I dont see the contradiction that you claim there. Care to elaborate?
I don't insist on every dot and comma in the Bible, but instead even dot and comma in the Word of God.

2. The Law God gave to the Israelites is a Law for physical living in the land of Canaan which is of this world. The Law God gave us however is Law for living in the Spiritual Kingdom, the Kingdom of God l, a kingdom not of this world. So attempting to box God I by pretending He should do it all exactly how He did it with the people of Old will never work. You dont box God, you instead unbox your mind so you can meet God where He is

Back to the issue of forgiveness , God says it works exactly like that in His New Law and that is what Jesus Christ taught us.

3. Finally getting what I have been telling you all along that my Trust is in God and His Word - Jesus Christ - the standard against which all else is judged?

P.S. The Word of God is Jesus Christ, not your Bible.

Kobojunkie:
1. I am afraid I dont see the contradiction that you claim there. Care to elaborate?
I don't insist on every dot and comma in the Bible, but instead even dot and comma in the Word of God.

2. The Law God gave to the Israelites is a Law for physical living in the land of Canaan which is of this world. The Law God gave us however is Law for living in the Spiritual Kingdom, the Kingdom of God l, a kingdom not of this world. So attempting to box God I by pretending He should do it all exactly how He did it with the people of Old will never work. You dont box God, you instead unbox your mind so you can meet God where He is

Back to the issue of forgiveness , God says it works exactly like that in His New Law and that is what Jesus Christ taught us.

3. Finally getting what I have been telling you all along that my Trust is in God and His Word - Jesus Christ - the standard against which all else is judged?

P.S. The Word of God is Jesus Christ, not your Bible.

1. You are now being too clever by half. You saud right at the begining you only go by what HE said IN THE BIBLE.

2. God did not give you any laws separate from the ones to Israel. If so, name them one by one. How is having no other gods a law for physical.living?

3. Being too clever by half. You said right at the begining you only go by what HE said IN THE BIBLE. That's how tge discussion started. But I'm glad you've now seen the light.

You've been a decent debater and not insultive - unlike most of these mofos on Nairaland!

PrincessGlow:


Well here is Busola twice going back to SCOAN. Unless u say that is not Busola. And by the way why was she so dark? Did she bleach?
Yes TB was a scammer all right. All I am saying is that he couldn't have been that evil or he could have easily killed Busola.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u8uSIWntQQ

Woman already cleared all this. If you truly are abreast with her story you shouldn't be this unaware. You can in like manner search out videos of where she countered that twist by the church my friend.

I even think TB might be in heaven right now. Recall how four angels descended to come take him home?

mindtricks:


Woman already cleared all this. If you truly are abreast with her story you shouldn't be this unaware. You can in like manner search out videos of where she countered that twist by the church my friend.

I even think TB might be in heaven right now. Recall how four angels descended to come take him home?

Cleared what? Are you saying she never left and came back. She even said so herself. PEOPLE DON'T LEAVE EVIL GROUPS AND COME BACK as they choose and still be alive to talk it. TB became a scammer, yes. But he was not that evil. I don't even think he could physically kill.

PrincessGlow:

1. You are now being too clever by half. You saud right at the begining you only go by what HE said IN THE BIBLE.

2. God did not give you any laws separate from the ones to Israel. If so, name them one by one. How is having no other gods a law for physical.living?

3. Being too clever by half. You said right at the begining you only go by what HE said IN THE BIBLE. That's how tge discussion started. But I'm glad you've now seen the light.

You've been a decent debater and not insultive - unlike most of these mofos on Nairaland!

1. The Word of God is written of in the bible, is it not? The bible is a book which contains the written words of men, of even Satan and his demons as well. But so also is the Word of God, God's own Truth aka Jesus Christ.

I believe in the Word of God - the Word out of God's
Mouth- and every thing He says and how He says it matters in comprehending His Truth.

2. God is a God of Laws/Covenants and each of His Laws is eternal and absolute. In the Bible alone, we read of several of these Laws/Covenants - Adamic Covenant, Noahic Covenant, Abrahamic Covenant, Mosaic Covenant aka Old Covenant Law of Moses(YHWH), Davidic Covenant etc.

The New Covenant, Jesus Christ is God's Law in the Kingdom of God and He is an agreement between God and individuals(not peoples or groups). Those who love Jesus Christ are those who carefully obey the details of the Law that is Jesus Christ, and no other Law.

Jesus Christ never asked His followers to obey the 10 commandments, nor the other 603 other laws that complete that set of Old. He gave to them a New Law Covenant complete with a new set of laws to which He called them to submit to and obey. Below are reference to some of Jesus Christ's laws which as you can see are not of the same standard as that of even the 10 commandments of Old

---

A. Instead of “I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have any gods before Me.” , Jesus Christ declared that you cannot serve two masters - Matthew 6 vs 24.

B. Instead “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.”, Jesus declared that no harm will come to those who insult Him or God, but only to those who insult the Spirit of God, an act He deemed unforgivable - Mark 3 vs 28 - 30.

C.. Instead of "Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day", Jesus Christ declared “The Sabbath day was made to help people. People were not made to be ruled by the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord of every day, even the Sabbath.” - Mark 2 vs 27 - 28, essentially doing away with the need for a holy day.

D. Instead of "Honor your mother and Father that your days may be long in the land that He have their fathers...", Jesus Christ instead declared that only those who abandon their parents and families for His sake are worthy Him and eternity in His Heaven - Luke 14 vs 26.

E. Instead of “Thou shalt not commit adultery.”, Jesus Christ declared that even by simply lusting in your heart, you are already guilty of adultery - Matthew 5 vs 27 - 30

F. Instead of “Thou shalt not steal. ” , Jesus Christ declared that if you have in your hand something that your neighbor has need of, don't tell him to come tomorrow, give him that which he asked for - Matthew 5 vs 42

G. Instead of "Thou shall not Kill", Jesus instead declared that “You have heard that it was said to our people long ago, ‘You must not murder anyone.[a] Any person who commits murder will be judged.’ But I tell you, don’t be angry with anyone. If you are angry with others, you will be judged. And if you insult someone, you will be judged by the high court. And if you call someone a fool, you will be in danger of the fire of hell." - Matthew 5 vs 21 - 23

H. Instead of "Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor", Jesus Christ declared, " But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." - Matthew 12 vs 36 - 37

---

Jesus Christ said His friends are those who submit to and obey His teachings and His commandments - John 15 vs 14

3. Well, I also made it clear from the start that my Trust is in God and not in men and their works, did I not? So, my Trust is in God and not inthe book that was put together by the hands of men. My belief is in the Word of God and in God's power to maintain the integrity of His Truth through time and men, remember?

P.S When it comes to God, I dont just read the books of the Bible. I read all sorts of books. After all, we are told that All knowledge of good and Evil belongs to God so there is not just one inspired book on this planet. Instead all knowledge - written and unwritten- are inspired by God.

PrincessGlow:


Cleared what? Are you saying she never left and came back. She even said so herself. PEOPLE DON'T LEAVE EVIL GROUPS AND COME BACK as they choose and still be alive to talk it. TB became a scammer, yes. But he was not that evil. I don't even think he could physically kill.

Woman already cleared all this. If you truly are abreast with her story you shouldn't be this unaware. You can in like manner search out videos of where she countered that twist by the church my friend.

I even think TB might be in heaven right now. Recall how four angels descended to come take him home?

mindtricks:



Woman already cleared all this. If you truly are abreast with her story you shouldn't be this unaware. You can in like manner search out videos of where she countered that twist by the church my friend.

I even think TB might be in heaven right now. Recall how four angels descended to come take him home?

There us NO WAY to clear that up. She said HERSELF that she left and came back and TB told her to bring her mother and her mother came and when they saw she was about to leave again, they tried to tape them.
What evil group does that, knowing she had all their secrets.
Look, TB had lots of money and SARS under his thumb. If he wanted Busola dead it would have been a piece of cake.

TB could be in heaven. Maybe he later changed. Remember, Bosola left 2008! That's a long time ago.

Kobojunkie:
1. The Word of God is written of in the bible, is it not? The bible is a book which contains the written words of men, of even Satan and his demons as well. But so also is the Word of God, God's own Truth aka Jesus Christ.

I believe in the Word of God - the Word out of God's
Mouth- and every thing He says and how He says it matters in comprehending His Truth.

2. God is a God of Laws/Covenants and each of His Laws is eternal and absolute. In the Bible alone, we read of several of these Laws/Covenants - Adamic Covenant, Noahic Covenant, Abrahamic Covenant, Mosaic Covenant aka Old Covenant Law of Moses(YHWH), Davidic Covenant etc.

The New Covenant, Jesus Christ is God's Law in the Kingdom of God and He is an agreement between God and individuals(not peoples or groups). Those who love Jesus Christ are those who carefully obey the details of the Law that is Jesus Christ, and no other Law.

Jesus Christ never asked His followers to obey the 10 commandments, nor the other 603 other laws that complete that set of Old. He gave to them a New Law Covenant complete with a new set of laws to which He called them to submit to and obey. Below are reference to some of Jesus Christ's laws which as you can see are not of the same standard as that of even the 10 commandments of Old

---

A. Instead of “I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have any gods before Me.” , Jesus Christ declared that you cannot serve two masters - Matthew 6 vs 24.

B. Instead “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.”, Jesus declared that no harm will come to those who insult Him or God, but only to those who insult the Spirit of God, an act He deemed unforgivable - Mark 3 vs 28 - 30.

C.. Instead of "Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day", Jesus Christ declared “The Sabbath day was made to help people. People were not made to be ruled by the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord of every day, even the Sabbath.” - Mark 2 vs 27 - 28, essentially doing away with the need for a holy day.

D. Instead of "Honor your mother and Father that your days may be long in the land that He have their fathers...", Jesus Christ instead declared that only those who abandon their parents and families for His sake are worthy Him and eternity in His Heaven - Luke 14 vs 26.

E. Instead of “Thou shalt not commit adultery.”, Jesus Christ declared that even by simply lusting in your heart, you are already guilty of adultery - Matthew 5 vs 27 - 30

F. Instead of “Thou shalt not steal. ” , Jesus Christ declared that if you have in your hand something that your neighbor has need of, don't tell him to come tomorrow, give him that which he asked for - Matthew 5 vs 42

G. Instead of "Thou shall not Kill", Jesus instead declared that “You have heard that it was said to our people long ago, ‘You must not murder anyone.[a] Any person who commits murder will be judged.’ But I tell you, don’t be angry with anyone. If you are angry with others, you will be judged. And if you insult someone, you will be judged by the high court. And if you call someone a fool, you will be in danger of the fire of hell." - Matthew 5 vs 21 - 23

H. Instead of "Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor", Jesus Christ declared, " But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." - Matthew 12 vs 36 - 37

---

Jesus Christ said His friends are those who submit to and obey His teachings and His commandments - John 15 vs 14

3. Well, I also made it clear from the start that my Trust is in God and not in men and their works, did I not? So, my Trust is in God and not inthe book that was put together by the hands of men. My belief is in the Word of God and in God's power to maintain the integrity of His Truth through time and men, remember?

P.S When it comes to God, I dont just read the books of the Bible. I read all sorts of books. After all, we are told that All knowledge of good and Evil belongs to God so there is not just one inspired book on this planet. Instead all knowledge - written and unwritten- are inspired by God.

My brother you are misguided. I don't have time to address these now. THOSE ARE NOT LAWS!!! Otherwise nobody will make heaven! His disciples even observed this. It was His way of telling you you can't be saved by obeying laws! You are human, you can't turn the other cheek, you can't give someone who stole your shirt your jacket too. You can only be saved throuhh GRACE!

PrincessGlow:

My brother you are misguided. I don't have time to address these now. THOSE ARE NOT LAWS!!! Otherwise nobody will make heaven! His disciples even observed this. It was His way of telling you you can't be saved by obeying laws! You are human, you can't turn the other cheek, you can't give someone who stole your shirt your jacket too. You can only be saved throuhh GRACE!

1. Recall that the same Jesus Christ declared to us, "I am the wWay, the Truth and the Life, no one comes to the Father except through Me". So, Jesus Christ is the Way to the Father, and this way then tells us what to DO if we want to get to the Father - commandments. He then tells us that those who love Him are those who obey His commandments - John 6 vs 23 -26.

He even declares that His friends are those who do all that He tells them to do - John 15 vs 14. , but here you are saying that Jesus Christ was instead saying that we cannot be saved by obeying His commandments? Is Jesus Christ a liar and deceiver?
Jesus Christ even told you in Matthew 7 vs 21 that only those who do the Will of God .I.e. obey His commandments , will enter into Heaven

2. I am human and I have turned the other cheek and I have come close to giving someone who stole my shirt much jacket too. Stephen, in Acts of the apostle,is a vivid example of a human who did not defend himself when his enemies chose to attack him and he died for Jesus Christ.
Many of the disciples are said to have died in similar manner. Not resisting the enemy even when it meant their end. They too were humans, were they not.

So what do you mean when you suggest that somehow our very humanity keeps us from obeying the commandments of God?

Kobojunkie:
1. Recall that the same Jesus Christ declared to us, "I am the wWay, the Truth and the Life, no one comes to the Father except through Me". So, Jesus Christ is the Way to the Father, and this way then tells us what to DO if we want to get to the Father - commandments. He then tells us that those who love Him are those who obey His commandments - John 6 vs 23 -26.

He even declares that His friends are those who do all that He tells them to do - John 15 vs 14. , but here you are saying that Jesus Christ was instead saying that we cannot be saved by obeying His commandments? Is Jesus Christ a liar and deceiver?
Jesus Christ even told you in Matthew 7 vs 21 that only those who do the Will of God .I.e. obey His commandments , will enter into Heaven

2. I am human and I have turned the other cheek and I have come close to giving someone who stole my shirt much jacket too. Stephen, in Acts of the apostle,is a vivid example of a human who did not defend himself when his enemies chose to attack him and he died for Jesus Christ.
Many of the disciples are said to have died in similar manner. Not resisting the enemy even when it meant their end. They too were humans, were they not.

So what do you mean when you suggest that somehow our very humanity keeps us from obeying the commandments of God?

You and how many other people can do that? My brother you have been miseduated. Accept salvation that has been offered free. Instead of thinking you earned it by obeying Laws!

PrincessGlow:

You and how many other people can do that? My brother you have been miseduated. Accept salvation that has been offered free. Instead of thinking you earned it by obeying Laws!

Recall what I said in an earlier comment about who Jesus Christ is. He is the Contract agreement between God and individuals (not groups or people). So it doesn't and shouldn't matter how many others obey the terms and conditions of the contract, Jesus Christ. What matters is whether I obey the terms and conditions of my contract, Jesus Christ, with God.

2. Also, I already told you how I got saved from the condemnation of sin(Death) by obeying Jesus Christ's commandments which stipulate that I must believe and eat of his body and drink of His blood in order to gain His eternal life(grace) in place of Death.

As for thinking that I earned it by obeying laws, let me ask you two question. When you were a child, did you only obey your parents because you believed you would earn from them things when your doing what you were instructed to do?

Or did you obey them because you trusted their decision?

Jesus Christ said, "The truth is, you must change your thinking and become like little children. If you don’t do this, you will never enter God’s kingdom."- Matthew 18 vs 3

Kobojunkie:
Recall what I said in an earlier comment about who Jesus Christ is. He is the Contract agreement between God and individuals (not groups or people). So it doesn't and shouldn't matter how many others obey the terms and conditions of the contract, Jesus Christ. What matters is whether I obey the terms and conditions of my contract, Jesus Christ, with God.

2. Also, I already told you how I got saved from the condemnation of sin(Death) by obeying Jesus Christ's commandments which stipulate that I must believe and eat of his body and drink of His blood in order to gain His eternal life(grace) in place of Death.

As for thinking that I earned it by obeying laws, let me ask you two question. When you were a child, did you only obey your parents because you believed you would earn from them things when your doing what you were instructed to do?

Or did you obey them because you trusted their decision?

Jesus Christ said, "The truth is, you must change your thinking and become like little children. If you don’t do this, you will never enter God’s kingdom."- Matthew 18 vs 3

Heaven will be you and two other people who gave their belongings to whoever stole from them. The rest of humanity will be condemned. All to accommodate your ridiculous interpretation!

Bros, you are being verbally legalistic about things of the spirit. Ain't gonna work.
JESUS CHRIST DIED FOR YOUR SINS, that you be reconciled to God! Stop trying to law yourself into salvation. YOU CAN'T!!
See below.

PrincessGlow:

Heaven will be you and two other people who gave their belongings to whoever stole from them. The rest of humanity will be condemned. All to accommodate your ridiculous interpretation!

Bros, you are being verbally legalistic about things of the spirit. Ain't gonna work.
JESUS CHRIST DIED FOR YOUR SINS, that you be reconciled to God! Stop trying to law yourself into salvation. YOU CAN'T!!
See below.

1. I didn't have to "interpret" any of what was written though. I simply used the understanding to have - basic human language comprehension skills that most every human out there has.

Like I said, Jesus Christ taught that very same to the uneducated and poor of His time. He never asked anyone to interpret His words. He simply asked that we use the understanding we have to glean His teachings.

2. I am glad I got the chance to properly explain what He has made known to me to you of what is indeed written.

I know it is not easy to break away from the lies one has been fed from, in some cases, childhood, that is what indoctrination does to us. Bit I urge you to be willing to wipe the slate clean and start over, having the Word of God Himself write, anew, His Truth on the tablet of your heart.

3. Sure, the blood of Jesus Christ was shed for the forgiveness of sins of those who He ransomed from the Old Covenant, but Jesus Christ never taught anyone to wash anything in His blood, let alone a robe though. You need to read through the Gospels for yourself to know this.

Kobojunkie:
1. I didn't have to "interpret" any of what was written though. I simply used the understanding to have - basic human language comprehension skills that most every human out there has.

Like I said, Jesus Christ taught that very same to the uneducated and poor of His time. He never asked anyone to interpret His words. He simply asked that we use the understanding we have to glean His teachings.

2. I am glad I got the chance to properly explain what He has made known to me to you of what is indeed written.

I know it is not easy to break away from the lies one has been fed from, in some cases, childhood, that is what indoctrination does to us. Bit I urge you to be willing to wipe the slate clean and start over, having the Word of God Himself write, anew, His Truth on the tablet of your heart.

3. Sure, the blood of Jesus Christ was shed for the forgiveness of sins of those who He ransomed from the Old Covenant, but Jesus Christ never taught anyone to wash anything in His blood, let alone a robe though. You need to read through the Gospels for yourself to know this.

Ok, if someone rapes your daughter, give him the other daughter to also rape, or you are condemned.
Here you are, over 2000 years removed from the words of Christ and you know better than those who heard directly from Him and interacted with Him. You know better what He meant than they. How many words would such a teacher speak in a day. How many volumes if books will be required for just one day's words!

PrincessGlow:

Ok, if someone rapes your daughter, give him the other daughter to also rape, or you are condemned.
Here you are, over 2000 years removed from the words of Christ and you know better than those who heard directly from Him and interacted with Him. You know better what He meant than they. How many words would such a teacher speak in a day. How many volumes if books will be required for just one day's words!

1. Jesus Christ never asked anyone to give their other daughter... your daughter is not property for you to give anyone.

But speaking of doing what Jesus Christ commands, did you know that Jesus Christ said that anyone who does not hate father, mother, wife, children, etc., more than Him is not worthy of Him?

He even commanded that you store your treasures in Heaven and not here on earth.

2. God declared in Jeremiah 31 vs 34, that He alone is Teacher to everyone who belongs to Him in His new Agreement. Jesus Christ stated that He alone is Teache to each and everyone who belongs to His flock - Matthew 23 vs 6 - and also that only those indeed taught by His Father,belong to Him - John 6 vs 43 - 45.

Now the apostles may have lived with Jesus Christ 2000 years ago and some of them may have written of their walk but they are all dead and are sleeping in their graves, waiting, like every other believer who is dead and gone , for Jesus Christ to return and then judge their works.

Now, since I have the same Teacher, Jesus Christ, the very same Master who walked with and taught His Law, to the apostles, living even today inside of me -He teaches me the same things He taught to the apostles when they were alive - who do you think I ought to listen to?
The dead and buried or the living Master who even after 2000 years is still the same Law of God?

Kobojunkie:
1. Jesus Christ never asked anyone to give their other daughter... your daughter is not property for you to give anyone.

But speaking of doing what Jesus Christ commands, did you know that Jesus Christ said that anyone who does not hate father, mother, wife, children, etc., more than Him is not worthy of Him?

He even commanded that you store your treasures in Heaven and not here on earth.

2. God declared in Jeremiah 31 vs 34, that He alone is Teacher to everyone who belongs to Him in His new Agreement. Jesus Christ stated that He alone is Teache to each and everyone who belongs to His flock - Matthew 23 vs 6 - and also that only those indeed taught by His Father,belong to Him - John 6 vs 43 - 45.

Now the apostles may have lived with Jesus Christ 2000 years ago and some of them may have written of their walk but they are all dead and are sleeping in their graves, waiting, like every other believer who is dead and gone , for Jesus Christ to return and then judge their works.

Now, since I have the same Teacher, Jesus Christ, the very same Master who walked with and taught His Law, to the apostles, living even today inside of me -He teaches me the same things He taught to the apostles when they were alive - who do you think I ought to listen to?
The dead and buried or the living Master who even after 2000 years is still the same Law of God?

Dead and in their graves? Then why did Christ say the good thief who was crucified with Him would be in Paradise SAME DAY??

PrincessGlow:

Dead and in their graves? Then why did Christ say the good thief who was crucified with Him would be in Paradise SAME DAY??

1. But paradise is not heaven and we know this because

* Jesus Christ did not ascend into Heaven until after He had finished His mission here on earth, so His statement that the thief would be with Him that day in paradise was not in reference to Heaven .

* in Matthew 25 vs 31 - 40, Jesus Christ taught that Heaven and Hell will not be open to admission until after He returns, so again, Paradise could not be a reference to Heaven

* and lastly, the thief, did not meet any of the requirements set by Jesus Christ for entry into Heaven, so he couldn't, by Jesus Christ's own standards, be headed in Heavens direction

Kobojunkie:
1. But paradise is not heaven and we know this because

* Jesus Christ did not ascend into Heaven until after He had finished His mission here on earth, so His statement that the thief would be with Him that day in paradise was not in reference to Heaven .

* in Matthew 25 vs 31 - 40, Jesus Christ taught that Heaven and Hell will not be open to admission until after He returns, so again, Paradise could not be a reference to Heaven

* and lastly, the thief, did not meet any of the requirements set by Jesus Christ for entry into Heaven, so he couldn't, by Jesus Christ's own standards, be headed in Heavens direction

Do you see anywhere where He said the thief will be in grave - which is where you say the Saints wait??
Bros stop confusing yourself. See below

PrincessGlow:

Do you see anywhere where He said the thief will be in grave - which is where you say the Saints wait??
Bros stop confusing yourself. See below

But you assume that by telling the thief that he will be with Him, Jesus Christ, in paradise, Jesus Christ meant the thief was become one of the saint or follower of Jesus Christ though, why is that?

Are you somehow of the mind that everyone whose sins Jesus Christ forgave, or who He healed healed up a follower of Jesus Christ?

Anyways, in John 5 vs 24 - 30, Jesus Christ speaks again of raising those who died to be judged at the end. Clearly paradise is not Heaven and Jesus Christ would be sending any of His followers anywhere until the end.

About John 11 vs 23 - 26, Do those who sleep in their graves not do so because they have life?

Kobojunkie:
But you assume that by telling the thief that he will be with Him, Jesus Christ, in paradise, Jesus Christ meant the thief was become one of the saint or follower of Jesus Christ though, why is that?

Are you somehow of the mind that everyone whose sins Jesus Christ forgave, or who He healed healed up a follower of Jesus Christ?

Anyways, in John 5 vs 24 - 30, Jesus Christ speaks again of raising those who died to be judged at the end. Clearly paradise is not Heaven and Jesus Christ would be sending any of His followers anywhere until the end.

About John 11 vs 23 - 26, Do those who sleep in their graves not do so because they have life?

See now how you have totally confused yourself by insisting on the letter of words that could have been manipulated by men. Any that's mentioned you try to confront it with convoluted reasoning, instead of stopping to ask yourself: "I wonder if that was actually what Lord Jesus said."

And yes, the thief now had as much right as any follower of Christ. Stop confusing yourself. Christ made that clear in the parable where they were all paid same though some started very late!

BTW you didn't tell us what is paradise that the thief went, and where it is located

PrincessGlow:

See now how you have totally confused yourself by insisting on the letter of words that could have been manipulated by men. Any that's mentioned you try to confront it with convoluted reasoning, instead of stopping to ask yourself: "I wonder if that was actually what Lord Jesus said."

And yes, the thief now had as much right as any follower of Christ. Stop confusing yourself. Christ made that clear in the parable where they were all paid same though some started very late!

BTW you didn't tell us what is paradise that the thief went, and where it is located

But I haven't confronted anything with convoluted reasoning even up this point in the conversation.

1. Jesus Christ taught His followers that there would be a resurrection when He returns for them. The parable of the 10 virgins is clear even on this - Matthew 25 vs 1 - 13. Obviously, it is those who are in their graves that will be resurrected- since they would be sleeping in their graves, according to Him.

You mentioned John 11 vs 23 - 26, but nowhere during that excerpt did Jesus suggest that the dead in Him would not be in their graves, sleeping as He had previously taught . Matter of fact, if you consider in full , the conversation between Martha and Jesus Christ, you would find that Jesus Christ did not tell Martha that her belief in a resurrection was wrong, but instead He desired that she believe that Lazarus, whom Jesus Christ had earlier disclosed as sleeping, would be raised that day, by Him, from the dead - John 11 vs 17 -27


2. Let's be sure we understand what the Parable of the workers in the Vineyard- Matthew 20 vs 1 -16 - really is saying. Jesus Christ explains the lesson from that parable at the end of the passage and it clearly does not apply to the thief on the cross and this because the Parable was told to explain that all Jesus's workers, of which the thief on the cross never was one since he had no works, would receive the same reward for work done, irrespective of how long they worked and when in time the work was done. In tha teaching, Jesus Christ also taught those who are first shall be paid last and who arrived to the vineyard last shall be first to be rewarded for work done.

3. The parable of the rich man and Lazarus, which Jesus Christ told for the benefit of the Old Covenant believers, comes closest to explaining the location of Paradise, a belief that predates the Gospel of the Kingdom of God - Luke 16 vs 19 - 31.

It is not mentioned in the details of the Old Covenant Law so there isn't much concrete information in have except that which Jesus Christ taught in the above mentioned parable.

Kobojunkie:
But I haven't confronted anything with convoluted reasoning even up this point in the conversation.

-\

** You said you could do two of eat poison or be bitten by poisonous snake! instead of wondering if Christ ever said such

** you said you turn your cheek; when told it's like bringing your other daughter for a rapist to rape after raping the first daughter, you obfuscated.

** You said when someone steals your coat you give him the other one.

Instead of simply admitting that these are too hard for a human being!

** You said Jesus saying Sabbath was made for man means Sabbath was abolished. So if he said the 10 commandments were made for man, that means they were abolished??!

PrincessGlow:

** You said you could do two of eat poison or be bitten by poisonous snake! instead of wondering if Christ ever said such

** you said you turn your cheek; when told it's like bringing your other daughter for a rapist to rape after raping the first daughter, you obfuscated.

** You said when someone steals your coat you give him the other one.

Instead of simply admitting that these are too hard for a human being!

** You said Jesus saying Sabbath was made for man means Sabbath was abolished. So if he said the 10 commandments were made for man, that means they were abolished??!

1. I have confirmation of only two things on the list. I have not gotten confirmation of any of the others. When the disciples, who had walked with Jesus Christ for almost 3 years at that point, had problems casting out a demon from a child, what did Jesus Christ tell them?

What I have learned from my person research is that this is a process that happens over time, and it is beyond my control so all I can do is continue to trust and obey just as we are all called to doing.

2. Let's look at some of the rules as given by Jesus Christ, this in addition to "Love your neighbor even as you love yourself".

Luke 14 vs 26 -27(KJV)

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26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
...
33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

Jesus Christ also commanded that those who follow Him must be willing to lose their lives in order to save it.

Matthew 5 vs 38 - 48(ERV)

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38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’[i]
39 But I tell you, don’t fight back against someone who wants to do harm to you. If they hit you on the right cheek, let them hit the other cheek too.
40 If anyone wants to sue you in court and take your shirt, let them have your coat too.
41 If a soldier forces you to walk with him one mile,[j] go with him two.
42 Give to anyone who asks you for something. Don’t refuse to give to anyone who wants to borrow from you.
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[k] and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies. Pray for those who treat you badly.
45 If you do this, you will be children who are truly like your Father in heaven. He lets the sun rise for all people, whether they are good or bad. He sends rain to those who do right and to those who do wrong.
46 If you love only those who love you, why should you get a reward for that? Even the tax collectors do that.
47 And if you are nice only to your friends, you are no better than anyone else. Even the people who don’t know God are nice to their friends.
48 What I am saying is that you must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Questions for you.
* Why would anyone who obeys these laws wait for a rapist to do harm to one, let alone a second child?

* Is it the case that such a one is somehow unable to throw his own self in the way of this "bomb" or what?

I have personally never been in such a situation as the one you describe, but one thing I know is doing what Jesus Christ commands is utmost in every situation, even if it means loosing ones own life in the process?

3. An even harder thing to do is to give/sell everything one has, and give it all away yo those who have need. We are talking of losing more than just your shirt and coat here. And this Jesus Christ said is what everyone who wants to enter into His Heaven must do. His own disciples had to do it too - Matthew 19 vs 16 - 28. In Matthew[b] 13 vs 44 - 46[/b], Jesus Christ told us two parables about the Kingdom of Heaven ezplaining this to those who will listen to Him.

If you have already given it all - all you own and are, career, family, friends, reputation, self/ego etc., - up for His sake, why worry then over losing a mere shirt and a coat to anyone?

4. Nope, the Sabbath was not abolished, just that the idea of a Holy day is not included in the New Covenant. However, the original idea remains in the Old Covenant Law where it always belonged.

In much similar way, what you know as the 10 commandments(though you should know that there are instead 613 commandments) remain there in the Old Covenant where they belong. The New Covenant is a different standard from the Old Covenant and so it would behoove you to learn the New laws rather than cling to an Old standard that had nothing to do with you in the first place - we will all be judged by the New standard.

Kobojunkie:
1. I have confirmation of only two things on the list. I have not gotten confirmation of any of the others. When the disciples, who had walked with Jesus Christ for almost 3 years at that point, had problems casting out a demon from a child, what did Jesus Christ tell them?

What I have learned from my person research is that this is a process that happens over time, and it is beyond my control so all I can do is continue to trust and obey just as we are all called to doing.

2. Let's look at some of the rules as given by Jesus Christ, this in addition to "Love your neighbor even as you love yourself".
Jesus Christ also commanded that those who follow Him must be willing to lose their lives in order to save it.
Questions for you.
* Why would anyone who obeys these laws wait for a rapist to do harm to one, let alone a second child?

* Is it the case that such a one is somehow unable to throw his own self in the way of this "bomb" or what?

I have personally never been in such a situation as the one you describe, but one thing I know is doing what Jesus Christ commands is utmost in every situation, even if it means loosing ones own life in the process?

3. An even harder thing to do is to give/sell everything one has, and give it all away yo those who have need. We are talking of losing more than just your shirt and coat here. And this Jesus Christ said is what everyone who wants to enter into His Heaven must do. His own disciples had to do it too - Matthew 19 vs 16 - 28. In Matthew[b] 13 vs 44 - 46[/b], Jesus Christ told us two parables about the Kingdom of Heaven ezplaining this to those who will listen to Him.

If you have already given it all - all you own and are, career, family, friends, reputation, self/ego etc., - up for His sake, why worry then over losing a mere shirt and a coat to anyone?

4. Nope, the Sabbath was not abolished, just that the idea of a Holy day is not included in the New Covenant. However, the original idea remains in the Old Covenant Law where it always belonged.

In much similar way, what you know as the 10 commandments(though you should know that there are instead 613 commandments) remain there in the Old Covenant where they belong. The New Covenant is a different standard from the Old Covenant and so it would behoove you to learn the New laws rather than cling to an Old standard that had nothing to do with you in the first place - we will all be judged by the New standard.

1. Has it ever occurred to your credulous mind that Lord Jesus might not have said some of these things or might not have said them that way. You go straight to twisting to justify and claiming you keep what I know you can't keep!

2. So why are we suddenly celebrating it on Sunday?? What's wrong with Saturday that God preferred?

3. You keep saying 613. Those were laws for communal living mostly authored by priests.

4. You are stuck on this your law stuff. Christianity is not about obeying laws and rituals. That's what makes it different from religion. Christianity is FIRST AND FOREMOST about accepting and spiritually belonging to a Person, then following that Person the best you can, always remembering that your salvation is due to His grace, and not for any purported righteousness of yours!

PrincessGlow:

1. Has it ever occurred to your credulous mind that Lord Jesus might not have said some of these things or might not have said them that way. You go straight to twisting to justify and claiming you keep what I know you can't keep!

2. So why are we suddenly celebrating it on Sunday?? What's wrong with Saturday that God preferred?

3. You keep saying 613. Those were laws for communal living mostly authored by priests.

4. You are stuck on this your law stuff. Christianity is not about obeying laws and rituals. That's what makes it different from religion. Christianity is FIRST AND FOREMOST about accepting and spiritually belonging to a Person, then following that Person the best you can, always remembering that your salvation is due to His grace, and not for any purported righteousness of yours!

1. I already told you that I Trust God is able to maintain the integrity of His Word through time and men. So what is it you accuse me of twisting this time around?

2. Celebrate Sabbath? I belong to Jesus Christ, I dont celebrate or even observe a Sabbath day.

3. God never said anything about those other laws being laws for communal living... men said that to you. If you read the book of the Law of Moses (Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) for yourself, you will find that the 10 you refer to where simply the first 10 of the 613 laws that God gave.

4. Jesus Christ, the one who is author of the faith you claim, told you in John 15 vs 13 - 14 , " Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you. He clearly tells you that you belong to Him if you obey His commands - John 14 vs 20 -21.

The standard is as set by Him and only those who meet His standard are those who are His - only a few will find and enter in through the narrow door- Matthew 7 vs 13- 14

Ofcourse you can continue to sell yourself talk like "Christianity is FIRST AND FOREMOST about accepting and spiritually belonging to a Person, then following that Person the best you can..." if it makes you feel better on some level. But Jesus Christ, the one who you are called to be like made it known to you, this from the beginning, that this relationship is a Master - Servant relationship and you, the servant, are called to obeying of your Master, Jesus Christ.

P.S : The grace we have in Jesus Christ refers to the Eternal life you recieve when you are saved from Death. So yes, you are saved from Death by your recieving of Eternal life(grace) from Jesus Christ. But Eternal life(grace) does not guarantee you or anyone a place in Heaven.

Kobojunkie:
1. I already told you that I Trust God is able to maintain the integrity of His Word through time and men. So what is it you accuse me of twisting this time around?

2. Celebrate Sabbath? I belong to Jesus Christ, I dont celebrate or even observe a Sabbath day.

3. God never said anything about those other laws being laws for communal living... men said that to you. If you read the book of the Law of Moses for yourself, you will find that the 10 you refer to where simply the first 10 of the 613 laws that God gave.

4. Jesus Christ, the one who is author of the faith you claim, told you in John 15 vs 13 - 14 , " Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you. He clearly tells you that you belong to Him if you obey His commands - John 14 vs 20 -21.

The standard is as set by Him and only those who meet His standard are those who are His - only a few will find and enter in through the narrow door- Matthew 7 vs 13- 14

Ofcourse you can continue to sell yourself talk like "Christianity is FIRST AND FOREMOST about accepting and spiritually belonging to a Person, then following that Person the best you can..." if it makes you feel better on some level. But Jesus Christ, the one who you are called to be like made it known to you, this from the beginning, that this relationship is a Master - Servant relationship and you, the servant, are called to obeying of your Master, Jesus Christ.

P.S : The grace we have in Jesus Christ refers to the Eternal life you recieve when you are saved from Death. So yes, you are saved from Death by your recieving of Eternal life(grace) from Jesus Christ. But Eternal life(grace) does not guarantee you or anyone a place in Heaven.

Look at him, you know better than all the apostles who were there with Him and Paul who received revelations from Him. The funny thing is that you don't even know that some of the words you rely on have been conclusively proven to have been changed or to have been later added by men!

Been nice chatting witcha.

PrincessGlow:

Look at him, you know better than all the apostles who were there with Him and Paul who received revelations from Him. The funny thing is that you don't even know that some of the words you rely on have been conclusively proven to have been changed or to have been later added by men!

Been nice chatting witcha.

See, recall that I used to be like you at one point until I realized I had been focusing on the wrong things in all of this. I learned instead to Trust in God's Sovereignty and Power over time and men and like that... Boom!... God showed up and since then He has been leading me and teaching me just as He did with the apostles and even Paul.

Kobojunkie:
See, recall that I used to be like you at one point until I realized I had been focusing on the wrong things in all of this. I learned instead to Trust in God's Sovereignty and Power over time and men and like that... Boom!... God showed up and since then He has been leading me and teaching me just as He did with the apostles and even Paul.

God couldn't have been teaching or showing you anything or you'll have known that some of the words you rely on have been PROVEN to have been later added or altered centuries later. I intentionally didn't want to tell u that. Do research on the subject and you'll see. So , stop deceiving yourself, the Bible has been manipulated, added to, and subtracted from. And it has nothing to do with God being able to maintain his words.

Ciao.

PrincessGlow:

God couldn't have been teaching or showing you anything or you'll have known that some of the words you rely on have been PROVEN to have been later added or altered centuries later. I intentionally didn't want to tell u that. Do research on the subject and you'll see. So , stop deceiving yourself, the Bible has been manipulated, added to, and subtracted from. And it has nothing to do with God being able to maintain his words.

Ciao.

Again.. .

Kobojunkie:
See, recall that I used to be like you at one point until I realized I had been focusing on the wrong things in all of this. I learned instead to Trust in God's Sovereignty and Power over time and men and like that... Boom!... God showed up and since then He has been leading me and teaching me just as He did with the apostles and even Paul.

Kobojunkie:
Again.. .

Yet you don't know that some words you've been parroting were never said by Christ. Yet, based on those words, you've been disagreeing with the same apostles and Paul u say received revelations from God! Well done.

Been nice.
Take care.

PrincessGlow:

Yet you don't know that some words you've been parroting were never said by Christ. Yet, based on those words, you've been disagreeing with the same apostles and Paul u say received revelations from God! Well done.

Been nice.
Take care.

What words did I use that were never said by Jesus Christ?

Kobojunkie:
Words like?

That's where you've got to do some work instead of parroting words whose genesis you don't know AND disagreeing with settled doctrine based on them!