₦airaland Forum

sagenaija:
Kobojunkie, where exactly did the author of Hebrews claim that Jesus Christ was Melchizedek?

15 This becomes even more evident when another priest arises in the likeness of Melchizedek, 16 who has become a priest, not on the basis of a legal requirement concerning bodily descent, but by the power of an indestructible life.

17 For it is witnessed of him,
“You are a priest forever,
after the order of Melchizedek.”

18 For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness 19 (for the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God. - Hebrew 7 vs 15 - 18

sagenaija:
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It's best if you concentrate on the matter at hand. When you assume what the other person has not said or even implied, you lose sight of issues.

I quoted from the book of Hebrews. How do you see those verses? Is there any reference to Archangel Michael? If not, who is using a DOGMA to drift away from the issue at hand? If there is reference to him then show us.

Those verses clearly are referring to the same person. That person is called the Son who is "the exact representation of" God - v.3. NO Angel was ever referred to as "my Son" - v.5. The Son is then CLEARLY said to be God whose throne will last for ever - v.8.

If you have a different perspective then take these same verses one by one and show us how they align with your position.

MaxInDHouse:
You've been contradicting yourself from the beginning!

You agreed that Jesus is the angel of the Lord!

But now you want to argue that he is not an angel!

Please how do you reconcile that?

Well if you want to know why i beleive that Jesus is Archangel Michael i'll oblige but then both of us must rely only on what we read in the Bible, no dogmas or opinions cooked up in the name of any spirit. We must both rely solely on the facts we find in the Bible!

Are you ready for that?

Kobojunkie:
You do have a point that from reading Hebrew 7, the author instead likened Jesus Christ to Melchizedek, and does not directly state that Jesus Christ is Melchizedek .

However, the provocative statement in verse 17, does lead many to conclude they are one and the same.

sagenaija:
I had told you that 'the Angel of God' is a phrase that is a designation for his FUNCTION. So, there is no contradiction in what I have been stating.
Jesus is also referred to as the LAMB OF GOD, but he is not a physical lamb and shared no physical characteristic with that animal when John firstintroducedhim as that. It will therefore not just be right for one to take the word 'LAMB' and want to equate him with the animal.

I am all for us engaging in a honest discussion; so, bring it on.

MaxInDHouse:
You've been contradicting yourself from the beginning!

You agreed that Jesus is the angel of the Lord!

But now you want to argue that he is not an angel!

Please how do you reconcile that?

Well if you want to know why i beleive that Jesus is Archangel Michael i'll oblige but then both of us must rely only on what we read in the Bible, no dogmas or opinions cooked up in the name of any spirit. We must both rely solely on the facts we find in the Bible!

Are you ready for that?

The Bros knows that the word "angel" references a creature, that's the quagmire he's desperate to jakpa from...


Isaiah 6:6-8 no enter reach the hearts of Trinitarians..
Isaiah 6:6-8 proven that JEHOVAH is nobody's angel/Messenger.

sagenaija:
I had told you that 'the Angel of God' is a phrase that is a designation for his FUNCTION. So, there is no contradiction in what I have been stating.
Jesus is also referred to as the LAMB OF GOD, but he is not a physical lamb and shared no physical characteristic with that animal when John firstintroducedhim as that. It will therefore not just be right for one to take the word 'LAMB' and want to equate him with the animal.

I am all for us engaging in a honest discussion; so, bring it on.

sagenaija:
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You said you were going oblige with information on why you believe that Jesus is Archangel Michael. Now you start off with asking me questions. Did I misread what you said? I hope I can hold you to your word.

Anyhow here are my responses:
1. The first mention of the phrase angel of Jehovah was when he got to Hagar in Genesis 16:9.

2. I'm not clear about this question. Please rephrase.

3. He is called the angel of Jehovah to distinguish him as the physical representative and representation of Jehovah.

4. Jehovah has other angels.

Now that your questions have been answered can you then oblige us with the information you said you would?

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus is the Archangel Michael!

Before we can successfully unravel this we need to start considering the Bible from the beginning and meditate on each reference made regarding the angel of Jehovah (NWT) or angel of the Lord (KJV)

©When was this angel first mentioned?
©Is there any reference we can relate him to in the first five books of the Bible?
©Why is he called the angel of Jehovah when there are many other angels belonging to Jehovah?
©How many angels did the reveal their names?

When we're through with this then we can move on to the next stage.
We can't jump to later references and think we are going to comprehend who the angel of Jehovah is if we didn't start from the beginning!

MaxInDHouse:
The first and second question you've answered in number 1, the third question is where you and i will have serious issues because angels are spirit beings like God so any angel sent to stand before humans and deliver JEHOVAH'S message is a physical representative of Jehovah!
So let me have your question!

sagenaija:
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The word 'angel' has as a functional meaning 'messenger'. Even in the Hebrew. So, unless I'm missing your point I do not think I have any situation you guys think I'm trying to get out of.

Emusan:
Yet no Biblical evidence for this.

If I told you to come for Bible study, you'll refuse. Now see how you're show casing your ignorance here.

Even the fact that you don't know that the same ANGEL OF THE LORD still mentioned in the New Testament after Jesus already in Mary's womb is so glaring.

If Jesus is the Angel of Jehovah and the same Angel of Jehovah became FULLY HUMAN (according to your belief) who now already in Mary's womb, how come the same Angel of Jehovah appeared and talked to Joseph in the dream?

Maybe, Jesus disappeared from womb that time.

"But after he had thought these things over, look! Jehovah’s* angel appeared to him in a dream,..." Matt 1:20 NWT

"But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream,..." Matt 1:20 KJV

Gabriel was called Angel of the Lord in Luke 1:11 "And there appeared unto him [Zechariah] the angel of the LORD standing on the right side of altar of incense"

And in your thread Study bible with jws you already depicted Gabriel as a cruel Angel more than Micheal. Now Jesus is also Gabriel

sagenaija:
Why you believe that Jesus is Archangel Michael?

Janosky:
Genesis 16:7 referencing his quote has no Hebrew lexicon meaning "function" or any word connected to "function."

The Bros knows that the word "angel" references a creature, that's the quagmire he's desperate to jakpa from...


Isaiah 6:6-8 no enter reach the hearts of Trinitarians..
Isaiah 6:6-8 proven that JEHOVAH is nobody's angel/Messenger.

Janosky: Genesis 16:7 referencing his quote has no Hebrew lexicon meaning "function" or any word connected to "function."

The Bros knows that the word "angel" references a creature, that's the quagmire he's desperate to jakpa from...

MaxInDHouse: I just can't understand how an angel of God is not an angel!

johnw47:
Ecc_7:6  For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, so is the laughter of the fool:


oh so duh know nothing fraud jw janosky

messenger is a function, a angel is a creature


מַלְאָךְ
mal'âk
mal-awk'
From an unused root meaning to despatch as a deputy; a messenger; specifically of God, that is, an angel (also a prophet, priest or teacher): - ambassador, angel, king, messenger.






Ecc_7:6  For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, so is the laughter of the fool:


false jw mad max

oh duh duh, u as know nothing and confused as fraud jw janosky

malak/messanger is not a angel when it is a "deputy" a "prophet" a "priest" a "teacher"
a "ambassador" a "king" etc. etc.

MaxInDHouse:
Fake poor Pastor!

Janosky:
Daniel 10:13, Jesus Christ is Archangel Michael.
Genesis 3:15, the seed defeats the serpent.
Revelation 12:7-9,who is the seed? Who is the serpent? Who defeated the serpent?
1 John 3:8, who defeats the devil?

Matthew 26:53, how many angels does Jehovah have?
@ Acts 5:19, is that angel of Jehovah the person of Jesus Christ?

@ Acts 12:11,23, is that angel of JEHOVAH the person of Jesus Christ?

Angels of Jehovah are myriads of myriads.
Very many Legions of them.

johnw47:
Ecc_7:6 For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, so is the laughter of the fool:


that's your reply to biblical facts!

your madness is getting very much worse, isn't it, it's due to being unable to stop lying;

Rev_21:8  But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers,idolaters, and all liars their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

johnw47:
Ecc_7:6 For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, so is the laughter of the fool:


that's your reply to biblical facts!

your madness is getting very much worse, isn't it, it's due to being unable to stop lying;

Rev_21:8  But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers,idolaters, and all liars their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Emusan:
As usual pilling up Mumbo Jumbo.

To your dull skull, Luke identy the Angel of the Lord to be Gabriel, do you need primary school pupil to explain that to you?

Anyways, no scripture yet that says Jesus is Michael but the scripture says Gabriel is Angel of Jehovah.

Sifia pained WAILER

Genesis 16:7 Amplified Bible.
Before you were born your Trinitarian mentors have known that Jesus Christ is an angel of the Lord, Jehovah.
ALL angels whether Gabriel, Jesus Christ the Archangel Michael are Angels of the Lord, Yahweh.
1 Corinthians 3:23, Jesus Christ belongs to who?

MaxInDHouse:
Fake retched pastor!

MaxInDHouse:
Insane and retched fake pastor!

Janosky:
Sifia pained WAILER
Genesis 16:7 Amplified Bible.
Before you were born your Trinitarian mentors have known that Jesus Christ is an angel of the Lord, Jehovah.
ALL angels whether Gabriel, Jesus Christ the Archangel Michael are Angels of the Lord, Yahweh.
1 Corinthians 3:23, Jesus Christ belongs to who?

Note that we are not to bring in any idea, opinion, dogma or phrase that doesn't appear in God's word!

the angels are ranked by their closeness to the highest Authority so the closest of them all is Michael

the angels are ranked by their closeness to the highest Authority so the closest of them all is Michael

sagenaija:
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First, let us note again your stipulations or terms that you listed for our discussions:

What I then want to do is to first look at what you presented and maybe when you have responded to my critic of your position I will then show how the Bible teaches that Jesus is not Archangel Michael.
1. I do not know what you mean by 'closeness'. I rather believe that the ranking of the angels was as a result of their stand for God and accomplishment as a result.

2. What I see in Proverbs 8 is wisdom personified. In verse 1 we are introduced to wisdom. In verse 12 wisdom again mentions itself. So, the verses 22-31 are a continuation of Wisdom's call started in verse 1. Unless you're saying that Wisdom is another name for Archangel Michael then it is wrong for you to use that portion to justify your claim above. It would also mean that Archangel Michael has been from eternity - v.23 i.e. as long as God has been.

3. Any scriptural reference for the above?

4. Again, even if you are saying that 'Wisdom' is another name for Archangel Michael nothing here in Proverbs 8:31 says that he created. The verse says he rejoiced in God's world and delighted in mankind.

Also, you are linking angelic rebellion with human disobedience in the Garden of Eden. How do you redeem those were not part of the rebellion and by extension means they had not been in a fallen state?

5. According to the Bible both Adam and Eve disobeyed God and so sin entered the world. God then talked about 'the seed of the woman. Nothing in Scriptures suggests even remotely that "the only way out is for an angel to be transformed into human" to save man. If you have any Bible portion for that let's have it. Provide it.

6. Daniel 12:1 doesn't talk about any conference in heaven about how to save man. Where did you get that from looking at that verse?

The person speaking in Isaiah 6 is Isaiah - he had said in verse 1 "In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord ...". Are you suggesting that it was Archangel Michael that was speaking from verse 1? Because it is the same person who still said in verse 8 "Here am I. Send me!"

A short quiz: When John the Apostle was asked to write to the angels of the churches in the book of Revelation were the angels of the churches spiritual beings or humans who were responsible for the churches?

MaxInDHouse:
Let's settle the ones at hand first before shifting to another segment!

johnw47:
disturbed false jw mad max

laugh, it's not another segment, it only requires a very short reply

did john write to spirit beings or to human beings, laugh, so dum

Rev_21:8  But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers,idolaters, and all liars their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

MaxInDHouse:
You this mad boy!