₦airaland Forum

Nigeria's entire population in 1960:

45 million

In case you don't know, the 19th century is the 1800's

@macof, it is not the fault of myself, my hairline or my people that you lack basic education. Take it out on yourself and your parents, not on me nor on my people.
Know this: I am not here for you to vent your frustrations about your ancestry and lack of education. It is not my fault that I am better than you in any way possible( perhaps it is my fault, for working hard at school)

Truthvalue:
1808 to be precise, now if that date is the same as the date the brazilian slaves started to be dumped on our shores, that I do not know, and I never claimed to know . Yet again your lack of comprehension shows it's self.



Yoruba are certainly not up to 50 million, you guys need to stop inflating your numbers, you are fooling nobody.

Also I would like to see your proof of how many the brazilian slaves ought to be, you are speaking to a mathematician over here. Also if I remember correctly the number of yoruba counted by the british in the colonial era was less than 3 million (I would need to verify to be sure). Nigeria has known a baby boom since then, the high growth of population is a thing which you don't seem to understand.

Here this: it is allowed to talk about a number even if you do not know what that number is, that is a point of mathematics which is taught to children as young as jss1: like when you are solving an equation.

Therefore you don't know what you are talking about when you claim "all yorubas are descended from Brazilian slaves"

You don't know how many Brazilians there were, you don't know how many people the Brazilians met.

In other words, you are just a slowpoke which is typical of all Bini miscreants on this forum. I'm still waiting for any exception, just one Bini person to redeem the pitiful reputation you people have created for yourselves due to inferiority complex

Another point successfully debunked!

Truthvalue:
@macof, it is not the fault of myself, my hairline or my people that you lack basic education. Take it out on yourself and your parents, not on me nor on my people.
Know this: I am not here for you to vent your frustrations about your ancestry and lack of education. It is not my fault that I am better than you in any way possible( perhaps it is my fault, for working hard st school)

lol
Only a frustrated person talks like this.. Especially on a faceless forum

What a mess

I don laugh tire

macof:
Therefore you don't know what you are talking about when you claim "all yorubas are descended from Brazilian slaves"

I don't know the number of brazilian slaves dumped on our shores, but I do know that number is huge enough for all yoruba to descend from brazilian slaves...you lack comprehension, how many times must I repeat this ?
I'm done talking to you. This is just a waste, you suffer from inferiority complex and lack of education.

Why are some Yoruba so fixated with attaching themselves to Benin? Even if it could be proven that the Yoruba and Benin people were same people in prehistoric times, the disassociation of Benin from Yoruba since 1963 should be more than enough for the Yorubas to leave Benin alone.

Two successive Obas of Benin have publicly told you guys that they are not Yoruba but you guys will no let go.

How can your parent or children so publicly reject your claim of being related, yet, you are still looking for non existence evidence to attached yourself to them.

The entire Benin/Yoruba debate on Nairaland always centred around Yoruba laying claim to Benin and the Benins rejecting such claims.

The fact that Yoruba claim themselves to be most sophisticated in Nigeria but still feel the need to claim Benin speaks volumes about their self acclaimed sophistication.

If the Yorubas are as sophisticated as claim, Benin should be the ones freely attaching themselves to Yoruba, but instead Yoruba are the ones having sleepless nights to claim Benin.

The Benin and Oba of Benin say they are not Yoruba, just let go and let them be.

nisai:
Welcome.

There are corpus that mention odua. One of it is can be found in Oyeku meji . Part of this says,

Oyeku meji pé,
Titi lorí ogbó
Birípe Birípe lo'mi ọkọ́ un dà
Didà lo'mi ọkọ́ un dà
Adifá fún odúà atẹwánrọ
wọn ni ko rúbọ lọdun yi
Ki o lé go orí oyé bàbá rẹ̀
Bi o ṣé rubọ lọdun yi
lo gún orí oyé bàbá ...........

This verse support odúà as a man,even as irunmọlẹ. Interestingly, the man odua was deified,which is different from spirit-being oduduwa..

Truthvalue:
Instead of saying scholar this or scholar that why didn't you dhow an eye witness account of these tales ? You claim there is z European account, yet instead if showing it, you are boring me to death by talking about scholars here and there. I have already stated this time and again, and it is written in the very comment to which you are replying: history is studied through historical documents ( := eyewitness account) not "scholar account".

In fact let me serve you back the comment to which you were replying, you need yo read it again and again until you finally understand it and stop making contradictory statements

"1) If you knew anything about history then you would know that what matters for the study of history is not "history books" but historical documents. I know your education didn't go far enough to understand this concept.
"History" books about african history are often done by unprofessional bigots (or under their influences) and are filled with lies and fairytales and all sorts of fiction. That is why studying African history as an educated adult requires doing the work of a historian: seeking historical documents and going through them.

2) I am not interested in "anti-yoruba", I only seek to make hearing and seeing the truth an option to readers on nairaland. It is not my fault that yoruba tend to hate hearing the truth about themselves.

3) I couldn't even care less about yoruba except for the fact yoruba keep claiming my people and my heritage. So I shed a light on the history of Benin empire and put a nail kn the coffin of the fairytales of oduduwa and ogiso and oranmiyan.

4) Not contempt with my telling the truth about the history of my people which was documented by eyewitnesses, you and your yoruba followers including your transgender troll attacked me and harassed me and kept coming with more lies.

5) That is why I had to also study yoruba true history and expose it right here."

Also, as I already said, oranmiyan, oduduwa and ogiso are fairytales, you in particular do not seem to be able to talk about history without talking about people who never existed and were made up. And look at the new name you guys are now giving oranmiyan. Did you decide that in your last propagandist reunion, just like when you guys were creating that scam of "yoruba" etymology here on nairaland ? So now your fictional oranmiyan had a nomenclature following european style of name: family name and personal name. Just like your fraudulent "medieval" burial site of the King of Benin which was built with modern cement technology and which is littered with british alphabet. Your frauds are always so very obvious.

1.There is an account of Ubinu kingdom, being visited by the first of Portuguese in 1472 during the late era of Oba Ewaure. The portuguese explorer's name was Ruy De Sequeira

2. Ruy De Sequeira did not have the opportunity to enter Bini via Ughotton because that was the period that the Bini King Ewaure was reorganising the kingdom. Although the gathered information about Bini before left back to Portugal, according to Antonio Galvao's account

3. According to eyewitness account, Ughotton, was established by Ekaladerhan in 11 century, the Ogiso Owodo's only son. Interestingly, it was around 1170 AD, after Ekaladerhan had been chased away that Oranmiyan arrived from Yoruba land of Ileife to Igodo.

4. During the era of Oba Ozolua, whose predecessor was oba Ewaure, the Portuguese explorer Jaoa D'Aveiro arrived Bini and he met Ohen Okun descendant of Ekaladerhan), who was the chief head of Ughotton and the chief worshipper of Olokun.

5. Joao D'Aveiro and Ohen okun travelled to portugual on the sanction of Oba Ewaure and the new king of Portugal who was crowned King in 1481.

5. The visit went as agreed upon and bilateral relationship was established in this era around 1485-1506 .

6. These crew with emissary of Oba Bini ,who was Ohen Okun went from Ughotton. This land of Ughotton lies in around 42 kilometers southeast to Bini. Below screenshot shows Ughotton and Ileife

6. It was this relationship that brought about the lengendary Ooni of Ileife, which asserts, to the east of Beny(Bini)kingdom about twenty moon's journey(about 250 leagues),there lived, the most powerful monarch of these part called Igane(oghene/ooni).Among the pagan chiefs, of these territories of Beny (Bini) . He Oghene (Ooni) is held in as a great veneration as supreme pontiff with us .

a. " De Barros Da Asia,First Decade Book iii. Crone(1937)pp126-7 as cited by Hodgins,T(1975) Nigeria perspectives, 2nd Edition(O.U.P)p. 124."

b. "The relationship between Benin and Portuguese Relation:Ughotton as a port :1485-1506 by Michael Ediagbonya."

The above info rmation clearly state the superiority of Ooni over Oba Bini. Infact there is also a ritual link between Bini and Ileife, which shows Ooni as a father of all kings associated with Ileife,included Bini kingdom. So, Ekaladerhan was never never odudaiwa Olofin and he did not near anywhere called Ileife in his lifetime.

So bight of Benin has become "yorubaland", fake map, fake stories, fake brain, olu317, you are a 419.

An actual precolonial map of the region:

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b.r=Benin?rk=386268;0

Truthvalue:
[s]...

An actual precolonial map of the region:

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b.r=Benin?rk=386268;0[/s]

Just like the precolonial map I’ve attached below which (from your laughable standpoint) proves that GUINEA conquered/owns Benin kingdom, right? LMAO!

samuk:
[s]Why are some Yoruba so fixated with attaching themselves to Benin? Even if it could be proven that the Yoruba and Benin people were same people in prehistoric times, the disassociation of Benin from Yoruba since 1963 should be more than enough for the Yorubas to leave Benin alone.

Two successive Obas of Benin have publicly told you guys that they are not Yoruba but you guys will no let go.

How can your parent or children so publicly reject your claim of being related, yet, you are still looking for non existence evidence to attached yourself to them.

The entire Benin/Yoruba debate on Nairaland always centred around Yoruba laying claim to Benin and the Benins rejecting such claims.

The fact that Yoruba claim themselves to be most sophisticated in Nigeria but still feel the need to claim Benin speaks volumes about their self acclaimed sophistication.

If the Yorubas are as sophisticated as claim, Benin should be the ones freely attaching themselves to Yoruba, but instead Yoruba are the ones having sleepless nights to claim Benin.

The Benin and Oba of Benin say they are not Yoruba, just let go and let them be.[/s]

Your kings (prior to the 1970s into the 1800s and all the way into the ancient past) have all maintained that their father & overlord is the Ooni of Ife.

Your kings made this confession. The Yorubas confirm it. We stated it on Nairaland. We simply stated history.

If reading this history sound to you like claiming you, then make sure to work on self.

You may be suffering from chronic-low self esteem problems.

Peace!

samuk:
[s]Why are some Yoruba so fixated with attaching themselves to Benin? Even if it could be proven that the Yoruba and Benin people were same people in prehistoric times, the disassociation of Benin from Yoruba since 1963 should be more than enough for the Yorubas to leave Benin alone.

Two successive Obas of Benin have publicly told you guys that they are not Yoruba but you guys will no let go.

How can your parent or children so publicly reject your claim of being related, yet, you are still looking for non existence evidence to attached yourself to them.

The entire Benin/Yoruba debate on Nairaland always centred around Yoruba laying claim to Benin and the Benins rejecting such claims.

The fact that Yoruba claim themselves to be most sophisticated in Nigeria but still feel the need to claim Benin speaks volumes about their self acclaimed sophistication.

If the Yorubas are as sophisticated as claim, Benin should be the ones freely attaching themselves to Yoruba, but instead Yoruba are the ones having sleepless nights to claim Benin.

The Benin and Oba of Benin say they are not Yoruba, just let go and let them be.[/s]

You Benins are actually too foolish to ignore. Ignoring you Binis means, to you, that you’ve stated facts.

What a bunch of jokers!?

Your kings (prior to the 1970s into the 1800s and all the way into the ancient past) have all maintained that their father & overlord is the Ooni of Ife.

Your kings made this confession. The recent political spin of the present king and his father can not erase the already documented facts from their fathers.

And even the revisionists themselves (i.e. the present king and his father) had to come to Ife to meet their overlord (the Ooni) for confirmation & the culmination post ascension rites. See attachments.

In any case, the Yoruba side simply confirm what the pre-1970 cBenin kings said based on extant records.
And we brought it to Nairaland. We simply stated history.

If reading this history sound to you like claiming you, then make sure to work on self.

You may be suffering from chronic-low self esteem problems.

Moreover, Mr. Cyril Punch who toured Yoruba cities and was also in Benin wrote in his 1889 Journal that:

“As a town, Benin was inconsiderable compared with places like Ibadan, Iseyhin, Shaki, Modakeke, and Abeokuta. There was no wealth, nor was there even power, except the power of the influence of fetish, and the sense of the spirit of a long past of atrocities, which, if not supernatural, were at any rate unnatural to a degree which is indescribable. I remember the return of two of Miller Brothers' men from a visit they paid to Benin after I had been there. They arrived at Guatun one evening, and showed plainly in their faces the mental strain that their visit had been to them.”

As for the Ife ‘bronze’ sculptures, the quotation here (is from an academic, expert, and professional Art Historian) shows IFE on the same pedestal as Greek, Rome, and Egypt.

“[The Ife sculptures] would stand comparison with anything which Ancient Egypt, Classical Greece and Rome, or Renaissance Europe had to offer”.

~ Frank Willett, “Ife and Its Archaeology,” The Journal of African History, Vol. 1, No. 2 (1960), p. 239.

No such comparison with the great arts of the world is recorded for Benin. Show me one

——————
Regarding the father-Ife/son-Benin classic connection, refer again to the following comments for a harsh reminder (and some trauma) which you were earlier on being endowed with:

There were no mention of Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan in the eyewitness documented Benin history between 1400s to 1800s.

This is not true.

Eyewitness testimony/writings from the late-1400s & early-1500s which references the monarch of the Ife kingdom & his suzerainty over Benin kingdom exist.

NB: Yes, there used to be a debate in academia in the 1970s/1980s (between the mainstream scholars on one hand; and one, two, or three others on another hand) over the identity of this suzerain.

This debate was particularly on the usage of the word “east” in those early writings.

In present time, however, there is no single academic historian who holds the notion that this suzerain (of the early writings) is other than the Ooni of Ife [i.e. Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni Ufẹ̀ in the Ife dialect of the Yoruba language].

The symbol ⟨ɣ⟩ being the voiced velar fricative with its consonant sound as in this audio sample.

This conclusion is reinforced by the fact that no king, throughout the Guinea Forest of West Africa matches the specific sacral details given in those early writings, except the Ooni of Ife.

In addition to this significant fact, the debate over the word “east” was subsequently quelled by the fact that
from Atakpame (in present-day Togo) to the kingdom of Benin (in present-day Nigeria), from Èkó (next to the Atlantic Ocean) to Ọ̀yọ́-Ilé (not far from the Niger River) Ife is known by the interesting epithet: Ibi ojúmọ́ ti ń mọ́ wá — i.e. “the place from where the sun rises”.

For some written references to the widespread usage of this epithet (in reference to Ife) among the natives of this region of West Africa, please refer to:

(A) Rev. D. Hinderer, “Diary Impression,” June 4, 1851, Ibadan, C.M.S.

(B) R. Horton (1979), p. 89., citing B. Maupoil (1943), A. Akinjogbin (1967:41-43), R. Smith (1969:31), as well as A. Obayemi (1976:206).

This reverential (rather than literal) epithet of Ife informed the literalist Europeans’ writings whose source(s) are Benin spokespersons of their king.

Hence the appearance of the word “east” in the early European writings in reference to the kingdom of the Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni (who is transliterated in the early writings as “Hooguanee”, “Ogané”, etc.).

Side Note: Binis, till today, still sometimes refer to the Ooni as Oghene. Refer to the entry “ɔɣɛnɛ” (i.e. “ọghẹnẹ”) in Hans Melzian’s “A Concise Dictionary of the Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” where its second definition is given as: “Bini name for the ↄni at Ile Ife”

Moreover, another piece of historical evidence which quelled the academic debate on the word “east” (as is seen in the early writings in reference to this overlord) are early maps.

There are maps (e.g. from the early 1500s) which show the phrase Dominion of the Orguene annotated across the western half of today’s Nigeria.

These historical information leaves anyone (not only the historians) with the only logical conclusion that the appearance of the word “east” in those early writings is of course not literal.

In conclusion, contrary to your ignorant assumption, there are writings from the early 1500s (on the basis of interviews of Bini representatives in the late 1400s) which references the king of Ife & his overlordship on Benin kingdom and other places.

Apart from early writings, there are other types of historical evidence which also establish clearly that there exist a classic (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

These other type of historical evidence which I come to here are classical artifacts from the hard science of archaeology. One crucial examples in this regard is discussed below.

The artifact shown in this link is the image of an Ooni of Ife. ~ S. P. Blier, “Art in Ancient Ife,” 2012, Figure 17.

The Ife naturalism of this artifact, its facial striations, as well as its classical Ife ceremonial costume and the pair of chest ornament help art historians (as well as Benin chroniclers alike) with identifying this image as an Ooni of Ife.

What is very, very crucial here is that this artifact was found in the archaeological deposits of Benin. To be more precise, it was excavated from the royal palace of Benin kingdom.

Furthermore, the production date of this artifact has now been established by science. This artifact is dated, by thermoluminescence technique, to the year 1420 [± 60 years].

~ Calvocoressi & David, “A New Survey of Radiocarbon and Thermoluminescence Dates for West Africa,” 1979, p. 19.

For more pictorial angles (and details) regarding this particular artifact, please refer to:

(A) W. Fagg, “A Bronze Figure in Ife Style at Benin,” British Museum, June 1950, Plate Fa, Fb, Fc

(B) F. Willett, “Ife in the History of West African Sculpture,” McGraw-Hill, 1967, Figure 89.

(C) C. Adepegba, “The Descent from Oduduwa,” 1986, Plate 4.

In other words, a more-than 500-year-old ‘bronze’ cast of an Ooni Ife was discovered in the (archaeological deposits of the) palace of Benin kingdom.

In conclusion, it thus becomes clear that there exists a classical (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

Again, this conclusion which I have inevitably reached is not mine. This is simply the conclusion of historical scholarship. This can be seen in the following works:

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

A beautiful summary of this conclusion of scholars of
African history (some of whose names and works are listed above) is shown in the page below from Adam Knobler (2016), p.47.

Peace!

PS: (1) Omonoba (king’s child) Akenzua II visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.

Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Akenzua himself just became Benin king.

(2) Omonoba (king’s child) Erediauwa (i.e. Akenzua II’s successor) also visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.

Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Erediauwa himself just became Benin king.

(3) Omonoba (king’s child) Ewuare II (i.e. Erediauwa’s successor) also visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.

Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Ewuare II himself just became Benin king.

The three of them were so humble in the presence of their father & overlord.

Who born monkey?

Actually, your question is retar.ded — and it exposes you to be dumber than you actually appear. Yet you think of them as some Nobel winning question. LMAO! I would be shocked to find that you are not autistic.

Truthvalue:
[s]Let me remind everybody a few facts: Benin city was burnt to the ground by the british, ife was not. Yet, the british had to build ife around 1912. So this brings the following questions:
1)what did ife look like before being built by the british
2) why build something which was not destroyed.
3) the current palace of the oni of ifa was built in the 1930's, yet the former was never destroyed by the british, so why build a new palace, was there any one prior to the one built in the 1930's or was it just a shrine ?[/s]

As I once said, you Binis are actually too foolish to be ignored. Ignoring you Binis means, to you, that you’ve stated facts. You all are a bunch of clowns!

First of all, Benin City wasn’t burnt to the ground during the punishment.

The palace & some buildings were burnt — not the whole city as you put it..

Moving on from that, you disgraced yourself again as always when you thought Ife wasn’t destroyed.

Even the most retarded and autistic of my Edo slaves know that Ife and some Yoruba cities were literally in ruins by the end of the 1800s — courtesy of the civil wars of the Yorubas.

As ravaged as it is, the ruins of the palace (long after the civil war) was described (by a German ethnologist who visited the site in the early 1900s) in glorious and illustrious terms. See some examples below:

(1) “A minute or two after twelve midday the monumental ruins of the Ooni’s “palace” met our gaze. We stood before the portal of the castle in the middle of an enormous square. I sent Bida in to announce us, waited for some time, made my horse climb the high flight of steps and rode through the delicately-carved door of the entrance, across the courtyard and through the dilapidated colonnades with my companions. It was like an enchanted castle. It was so large and noble in design, so superbly pure despite its broken lines, its mouldering to decay and the sordid exterior it now presents. We did not meet a single soul. At last we came to where there were some people, and there, clad in a gorgeous robe of bright green silk, a magnificent tiara on his brow, and shaded by a huge silken canopy, the Oni, the head of the Holy City of Ife’s hierarchy, advanced to meet us with a great crowd.”

~ Leo Frobenius, “Voice of Africa,” (1913), p.77.


(2) “The Palace of the Oni, whose massive walls meet the eye from whatever quarter one approaches it, is that which most impress everyone who visits the Ilifé of to-day. Its front, especially, with the fine open square on which it stands, makes an imposing effect in spite of all its ruin. The masonry of the façade is still in fair condition, although it is denuded and devoid of interest. The walls are more mighty, over a yard broad at the base and some eighteen feet high.”

~ Leo Frobenius, “Voice of Africa,” (1913), p.276.

(3) “Poor Oni! Poor Palace! How are the mighty fallen! Once a glorious edifice here reared itself aloft, built of bricks well burnt, brilliant with colored tiles and sundry other ornament! Here on this very spot, the horses stamped their hoofs; here the breath of life exhaled from many a human victim offered up, while this strange country’s high priests chanted prayers.”

~ Leo Frobenius, “Voice of Africa,” (1913), p.277.

You are a disgrace only to yourself, your family & your friends.

Peace!

TAO11:
Your kings (prior to the 1970s into the 1800s and all the way into the ancient past) have all maintained that their father & overlord is the Ooni of Ife.

Your kings made this confession. The Yorubas confirm it. We stated it on Nairaland. We simply stated history.

If reading this history sound to you like claiming you, then make sure to work on self.

You may be suffering from chronic-low self esteem problems.

Peace!

Is it too much of a ask to kindly request that you guys should free us. Benin people are already very proud people, but Yoruba claims and attachment is making our heads swell to the point of explosion.

The entire Benin people and the Oba of Benin have been disclaiming Yoruba heritage since 1963, but Yoruba will not let go. Since oba Eweka 2 and oba Akenzua 2 had these fairytales relationship with you guys and allowed you guys taste from the sweetness of Benin history at the beginning of the 20th century, you have latched onto Benin as if it's sugar.

TAO11 tell your people to free us, we are happy with no Yoruba ancestral relationship.

If you guys carry on like this insisting you must claim Benin by all means, the Benin may start passing out due to too much pride. Ejor Tori outrun, let the fallacy of Oba of Benin being Yoruba end, do you want us to start fainting due to too much pride. What kind of forced marriage is this? Tori olorun.

Achieve more than your current achievements and allow Benin to start running after you, you running after Benin is becoming very embarrassing for such self acclaimed sophistication people.

Please don't come back and tell us you are simply stating historical facts because there is no eyewitness historical evidence to back up Benin/Ife relationship until 1897. Ogane wasn't Ife, even if it was, just one reference in 400 years full of written history is not enough to establish a Benin/Ife relationship.

Please also don't come back with some archeological crap. What do I need archeological evidence for when there were actual people around that Chronicled Benin history for 400 years. Show us more evidence from their eyewitness accounts of Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan being mentioned in their written records.

My brother in France is literally bursting out of his seams due to too much pride, gregyboy is running circles around you, schooling you and enjoying himself like there's no tomorrow. Tao give it up, you tried, you have fought a good fight. The truth is just tool difficult to fight against, no matter your weapons. It wasn't your fault that you are now becoming a laughing stock.

samuk:
Is it too much of a ask to kindly request that you guys should free us. Benin people are already very proud people, but Yoruba claims and attachment is making our heads swell to the point of explosion.

The entire Benin people and the Oba of Benin have been disclaiming Yoruba heritage since 1963, but Yoruba will not let go. Since oba Eweka 2 and oba Akenzua 2 had these fairytales relationship with you guys and allowed you guys taste from the sweetness of Benin history at the beginning of the 20th century, you have latched onto Benin as if it's sugar.

TAO11 tell your people to free us, we are happy with no Yoruba ancestral relationship.

If you guys carry on like this insisting you must claim Benin by all means, the Benin may start passing out due to too much pride. Ejor Tori outrun, let the fallacy of Oba of Benin being Yoruba end, do you want us to start fainting due to too much pride. What kind of forced marriage is this? Tori olorun.

Achieve more than your current achievements and allow Benin to start running after you, you running after Benin is becoming very embarrassing for such self acclaimed sophistication people.

Please don't come back and tell us you are simply stating historical facts because there is no eyewitness historical evidence to back up Benin/Ife relationship until 1897. Ogane wasn't Ife, even if it was, just one reference in 400 years full of written history is not enough to establish a Benin/Ife relationship.

Please also don't come back with some archeological crap. What do I need archeological evidence for when there were actual people around that Chronicled Benin history for 400 years. Show us more evidence from their eyewitness accounts of Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan being mentioned in their written records.

My brother in France is literally bursting out of his seams due to too much pride, gregyboy is running circles around you, schooling you and enjoying himself like there's no tomorrow. Tao give it up, you tried, you have fought a good fight. The truth is just tool difficult to fight against, no matter your weapons. It wasn't your fault that you are now becoming a laughing stock.

She is like a frustrated fellow killing depression by trolling we binis given it up is never possible for her she lives for this.. Bro


She currently studying all material available to get back to us....

I dont know how she manage her time... Its still surprise me bro


I want her to exhaust all materials available to leave her defenseless.... She is almost getting there....

When you have a spare time and you want to catch cruise call her out she is a Yoruba zombie as long as its benin she will comeout..

But telling her to quit is like saying she should end her life

Why are you scared to quote my comment in full?

samuk:
[s]Is it too much of a ask to kindly request that you guys should free us. Benin people are already very proud people, but Yoruba claims and attachment is making our heads swell to the point of explosion. [/s]

Free you?? LMAO!

You’re hopelessly deluded to not realize that the very thread you’re commenting on actually debunks your victim cry.

Are you too blind to realize that one of my slaves from your side (who felt the need to attach himself to my Lagos) is who we’ve come here teach history?

It’s okay to feel the need to attach yourselves to my Lagos — who know like better thing?

What is not okay, however, is to attempt to attach but without any historical basis. And he (and you all) have been put in your tiny little places in that regards.

What is also not okay is to cry wolf when we debunk your false claims thus asserting the classical father & son connection between Ife & Benin respectively.

Non-Nigerian historians who discuss the topic do not do so because tHey aRe YoRuBas and have refused to FrEe you Binis from Yoruba bondage.

No, they’re simply stating history. You shouldn’t have to feel agitated because proper history is being stated.

I am not one of those who would unilaterally bring up the historical classical connection between father-IFE and son-Benin; however, I have a personal moral duty to disgrace liars like you whenever you go on your lying spry.

And if I do (when I do, as I have done here) it is only hypocritical of you to cry and ask why you’re not being left to carry on lying.

Now if reading such academically-vetted historical fact makes you uneasy, then you have some growing up to do — there is clearly a chronic low self esteem issue at okay there for you. There are no two ways.

[s]The entire Benin people and the Oba of Benin have been disclaiming Yoruba heritage since 1963, but Yoruba will not let go.[/s]

I highlighted the words “entire Benin people” and the year “1963” to spot-light yet another one of your low-self esteem induced fraud and blatant lie respectively.

Firstly, at no point did historians (or I) say that the “entire Benin people” have “Yoruba heritage”.

So, your trick of putting that in my mouth (and then later on pretend to debunk it) is dead on arrival.

Moreover, academic/professional historians maintain (and I echo their conclusions) that the kings (Oba) of Benin kingdom are descended paternally from Ife. This is the fact. Not your twist of “entire people of Benin”.

However, the last king of Benin (Erediauwa) was the first to attempt an alteration of that fact which his own Benin predecessors (prior Benin kings) uphold jealously.

And when did this attempt at alteration happen? You wrote 1963 just to push back the date a little bit as if that makes a difference.

Well, this attempt at altering history began under-g in 1970, but was first announced to the wider Edo public for the first time, in the year 1978-9 by the new king Erediauwa during his coronation party.

This has been well-studied samuk. Stop attempting cheap fraud and thereby disgracing yourself, family & friends. See first attachment.

[s]Since oba Eweka 2 and oba Akenzua 2 had these fairytales relationship with you guys and allowed you guys taste from the sweetness of Benin history at the beginning of the 20th century, you have latched onto Benin as if it's sugar.[/s]

Oba Eweka 2 and Oba Akenzua 2 are ret@r.ded fools or what did I just read from you?

More than that question, your Obas (prior to the fraud on throne and his own father) did not do any of the crap you wrote. Instead, they insisted that they are from Ife patrilineally. And I disagree with your view they they are bastards. No they’re not.

In fact, historical studies proves that they are correct, and I will summarize such conclusions again adducing evidence from classical texts, artifacts, and ethnography.

Regarding sweetness, I am not sure where that one is coming from:

Benin used to be part of the Western region, not the other way round. IFE artifacts are more antique than Benin’s not the other way round. IFE artifacts receive more praise for quality (quantity ) than Benin’s’, not the other way round. Yorubaland is more vast that Benin’s, not the other way round. I can go on and on. So what is sweetness? And who gave who a taste?

Regardless of your attempt at spinning/gaslighting, we will continue to remind you all of history whenever you going insane again with your threads. If you like grow up, if you like don’t.

TAO11 [s]tell your people to free us, we are happy with no Yoruba ancestral relationship.[/s]

Yes, slaves are happier without relationship with their masters. So I get your perspective.

[s]If you guys carry on like this insisting you must claim Benin by all means, the Benin may start passing out due to too much pride. Ejor Tori outrun, let the fallacy of Oba of Benin being Yoruba end, do you want us to start fainting due to too much pride. What kind of forced marriage is this? Tori olorun.[/s]

IF by “claim Benin” you mean we respond to and debunk all Benin attempts to distort history — by adducing historical conclusions vetted by world’s historical scholarship; then yes we claim you as our conquered slaves. Kee ya sef.

History bites you! How is that history’s fault? Truth does not care how it makes you feel.. You better kiss the truth today.

[s]Achieve more than your current achievements and allow Benin to start running after you, you running after Benin is becoming very embarrassing for such self acclaimed sophistication people.[/s]

Yes, you’re actually running after Yorubaland. The indices are too glaring to begin to list — Presidency, Vice-presidency, Wealthiest people, Foremost monarch, among other innumerable indices.

If you must criticize make sure Benin have tasted the indices first.

[s]Please don't come back and tell us you are simply stating historical facts because there is no eyewitness historical evidence to back up Benin/Ife relationship until 1897.[/s]

Sorry, I’m stating historical facts.

Historical scholarship of the whole world agrees with me, NOT with you. I wonder what Nairaland would look like if it was you they agree with.

Also, the conclusions of historical scholarship are backed by eyewitness testimony — even though this is only one type of historical evidence. In addition to being backed by eyewitness testimony they are also backed by classical artifacts, among other historical evidences found in oral literature.

All of these evidences are discussed in some detail in the quite long comment that follows:

Ogane wasn't Ife,

Of course Ogane was not Ife, because e Ogane is not even a place. Dullardinhho! LMAO!

Instead Ogane (an old Portuguese rendering) is the Ooni of Ife. — Ogane is a ruler.

Is this me saying it? No. This is the present conclusion of historical scholarship in the world.

This is also discussed in some detail in the quite long comment that follow:

even if it [HE] was, just one reference in 400 years full of written history is not enough to establish a Benin/Ife relationship

Well, I’m glad you disgraced yourself as you always do out of desperation. Samuk, pick up a book and save your self this repeated humiliation.

The point I’m making is that, there is not just one reference, there is at least four independent references that I’m aware of. And these references span centuries — prior to the 1800s.


You Benins are actually too foolish to be ignored. Ignoring you Binis means, to you, that you’ve stated facts.

You all are a bunch of joke!?

Hey slave-samuk the obsess midget,

Here is the discussion of the evidence which I promised above to remind you about:

There were no mention of Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan in the eyewitness documented Benin history between 1400s to 1800s.

This is not true.

Eyewitness testimony/writings from the late-1400s & early-1500s which references the monarch of the Ife kingdom & his suzerainty over Benin kingdom exist.

NB: Yes, there used to be a debate in academia in the 1970s/1980s (between the mainstream scholars on one hand; and one, two, or three others on another hand) over the identity of this suzerain.

This debate was particularly on the usage of the word “east” in those early writings.

In present time, however, there is no single academic historian who holds the notion that this suzerain (of the early writings) is other than the Ooni of Ife [i.e. Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni Ufẹ̀ in the Ife dialect of the Yoruba language].

The symbol ⟨ɣ⟩ being the voiced velar fricative with its consonant sound as in this audio sample.

This conclusion is reinforced by the fact that no king, throughout the Guinea Forest of West Africa matches the specific sacral details given in those early writings, except the Ooni of Ife.

In addition to this significant fact, the debate over the word “east” was subsequently quelled by the fact that
from Atakpame (in present-day Togo) to the kingdom of Benin (in present-day Nigeria), from Èkó (next to the Atlantic Ocean) to Ọ̀yọ́-Ilé (not far from the Niger River) Ife is known by the interesting epithet: Ibi ojúmọ́ ti ń mọ́ wá — i.e. “the place from where the sun rises”.

For some written references to the widespread usage of this epithet (in reference to Ife) among the natives of this region of West Africa, please refer to:

(A) Rev. D. Hinderer, “Diary Impression,” June 4, 1851, Ibadan, C.M.S.

(B) R. Horton (1979), p. 89., citing B. Maupoil (1943), A. Akinjogbin (1967:41-43), R. Smith (1969:31), as well as A. Obayemi (1976:206).

This reverential (rather than literal) epithet of Ife informed the literalist Europeans’ writings whose source(s) are Benin spokespersons of their king.

Hence the appearance of the word “east” in the early European writings in reference to the kingdom of the Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni (who is transliterated in the early writings as “Hooguanee”, “Ogané”, etc.).

Side Note: Binis, till today, still sometimes refer to the Ooni as Oghene. Refer to the entry “ɔɣɛnɛ” (i.e. “ọghẹnẹ”) in Hans Melzian’s “A Concise Dictionary of the Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” where its second definition is given as: “Bini name for the ↄni at Ile Ife”

Moreover, another piece of historical evidence which quelled the academic debate on the word “east” (as is seen in the early writings in reference to this overlord) are early maps.

There are maps (e.g. from the early 1500s) which show the phrase Dominion of the Orguene annotated across the western half of today’s Nigeria.

These historical information leaves anyone (not only the historians) with the only logical conclusion that the appearance of the word “east” in those early writings is of course not literal.

In conclusion, contrary to your ignorant assumption, there are writings from the early 1500s (on the basis of interviews of Bini representatives in the late 1400s) which references the king of Ife & his overlordship on Benin kingdom and other places.

Apart from early writings, there are other types of historical evidence which also establish clearly that there exist a classic (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

These other type of historical evidence which I come to here are classical artifacts from the hard science of archaeology. One crucial examples in this regard is discussed below.

The artifact shown in this link is the image of an Ooni of Ife. ~ S. P. Blier, “Art in Ancient Ife,” 2012, Figure 17.

The Ife naturalism of this artifact, its facial striations, as well as its classical Ife ceremonial costume and the pair of chest ornament help art historians (as well as Benin chroniclers alike) with identifying this image as an Ooni of Ife.

What is very, very crucial here is that this artifact was found in the archaeological deposits of Benin. To be more precise, it was excavated from the royal palace of Benin kingdom.

Furthermore, the production date of this artifact has now been established by science. This artifact is dated, by thermoluminescence technique, to the year 1420 [± 60 years].

~ Calvocoressi & David, “A New Survey of Radiocarbon and Thermoluminescence Dates for West Africa,” 1979, p. 19.

For more pictorial angles (and details) regarding this particular artifact, please refer to:

(A) W. Fagg, “A Bronze Figure in Ife Style at Benin,” British Museum, June 1950, Plate Fa, Fb, Fc

(B) F. Willett, “Ife in the History of West African Sculpture,” McGraw-Hill, 1967, Figure 89.

(C) C. Adepegba, “The Descent from Oduduwa,” 1986, Plate 4.

In other words, a more-than 500-year-old ‘bronze’ cast of an Ooni Ife was discovered in the (archaeological deposits of the) palace of Benin kingdom.

In conclusion, it thus becomes clear that there exists a classical (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

Again, this conclusion which I have inevitably reached is not mine. This is simply the conclusion of historical scholarship. This can be seen in the following works:

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

A beautiful summary of this conclusion of scholars of
African history (some of whose names and works are listed above) is shown in the page below from Adam Knobler (2016), p.47.

Peace!

PS:
(1) Omonoba (king’s child) Akenzua II visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.

Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Akenzua himself just became Benin king.

(2) Omonoba (king’s child) Erediauwa (i.e. Akenzua II’s successor) also visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.

Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Erediauwa himself just became Benin king.

(3) Omonoba (king’s child) Ewuare II (i.e. Erediauwa’s successor) also visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.

Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Ewuare II himself just became Benin king.

The three of them were so humble in the presence of their father & overlord.

Who born monkey?

TAO11:
Actually, your question is retar.ded — and it exposes you to be dumber than you actually appear. Yet you think of them as some Nobel winning question. LMAO! I would be shocked to find that you are not autistic.


As I once said, you Binis are actually too foolish to be ignored. Ignoring you Binis means, to you, that you’ve stated facts. You all are a bunch of clowns!

First of all, Benin City wasn’t burnt to the ground during the punishment.

The palace & some buildings were burnt — not the whole city as you put it..

Moving on from that, you disgraced yourself again as always when you thought Ife wasn’t destroyed.

Even the most retarded and autistic of my Edo slaves know that Ife and some Yoruba cities were literally in ruins by the end of the 1800s — courtesy of the civil wars of the Yorubas.

As ravaged as it is, the ruins of the palace (long after the civil war) was described (by a German ethnologist who visited the site in the early 1900s) in glorious and illustrious terms. See some examples below:

(1) “A minute or two after twelve midday the monumental ruins of the Ooni’s “palace” met our gaze. We stood before the portal of the castle in the middle of an enormous square. I sent Bida in to announce us, waited for some time, made my horse climb the high flight of steps and rode through the delicately-carved door of the entrance, across the courtyard and through the dilapidated colonnades with my companions. It was like an enchanted castle. It was so large and noble in design, so superbly pure despite its broken lines, its mouldering to decay and the sordid exterior it now presents. We did not meet a single soul. At last we came to where there were some people, and there, clad in a gorgeous robe of bright green silk, a magnificent tiara on his brow, and shaded by a huge silken canopy, the Oni, the head of the Holy City of Ife’s hierarchy, advanced to meet us with a great crowd.”

~ Leo Frobenius, “Voice of Africa,” (1913), p.77.


(2) “The Palace of the Oni, whose massive walls meet the eye from whatever quarter one approaches it, is that which most impress everyone who visits the Ilifé of to-day. Its front, especially, with the fine open square on which it stands, makes an imposing effect in spite of all its ruin. The masonry of the façade is still in fair condition, although it is denuded and devoid of interest. The walls are more mighty, over a yard broad at the base and some eighteen feet high.”

~ Leo Frobenius, “Voice of Africa,” (1913), p.276.

(3) “Poor Oni! Poor Palace! How are the mighty fallen! Once a glorious edifice here reared itself aloft, built of bricks well burnt, brilliant with colored tiles and sundry other ornament! Here on this very spot, the horses stamped their hoofs; here the breath of life exhaled from many a human victim offered up, while this strange country’s high priests chanted prayers.”

~ Leo FrobeniusLeo Frobenius, “Voice of Africa,” (1913), p.277.

You are a disgrace only to yourself, your family & your friends.

Peace!

There is nothing glorifying in the palace the only thing glorifying was Leo Frobenius poetic words he used to suiting the palace to draw attention he wanted.... For his book

Even after his books was sold out nobody wanted to see the shithole palace

Removing those words you will see nothing special in the palace he saw

He did mention the palace was in ruins he never emphasized on it, what he wanted to sell is attention... Was it not the same guy who dug the ife groove...nigga needed a market for his exhumed ife artworks...

Just imagine someone like afc ryder describing the ife palace na tears we go see... For our Yoruba people.... Afc ryder got no chill

Fear nor allow the Leo Frobenius guy take the picture of the palace.... Bcus the pics of the palace wouldn't have matched his sweet words....


As for the punishment.... Of 1897 against benins abi na according Tao11, by the britsh, the palace was burnt, livestock and foods were seized from the locals living people starving and most houses were burnt by uncontrolled fire.....


I will be waiting for you ro deniel this fact


Ife and the entire yoruba people civil war was ended by the britsh.. Like two sons fighting and their father comes to use kobold to flog them to stio fighting,


Like bombing oyo and ekiti while telling them to cease fire the stubborn ones like ogendegbe were jailed and died like fowl in prison....

The britsh didn't even war Yorubas they use cane flog sense them to stop fighting and called them for colonization... Lol

Tao11, did u hear Leo Frobenius say the ife palace was built with bricks and well burnt

Damn that guy self.... Desperate pass Tao11 on stealing Benin history

gregyboy:
She is like a frustrated fellow killing depression by trolling we binis given it up is never possible for her she lives for this.. Bro


She currently studying all material available to get back to us....

I dont know how she manage her time... Its still surprise me bro


I want her to exhaust all materials available to leave her defenseless.... She is almost getting there....

When you have a spare time and you want to catch cruise call her out she is a Yoruba zombie as long as its benin she will comeout..

But telling her to quit is like saying she should end her life

You know her too well.

Thanks gregyboy for reposting that eyewitness account.

Benin children want eyewitness only when it talks about Benin in a somewhat good light.

If such eyewitness — Europeans or not — says the truth about their low place in comparison to their Yoruba masters; Benin children activate sore-loser mode.

It is a Benin mental illness actually.

Thank you for helping me prove it.

The readers now know.
—————
PS:
I will always appear to debunk Benin lies, even if I’m *******

And that’s not ending.

TAO11:
Your kings (prior to the 1970s into the 1800s and all the way into the ancient past) have all maintained that their father & overlord is the Ooni of Ife.

Your kings made this confession. The recent political spin of the present king and his father can not erase the already documented facts from their fathers.

And even the revisionists themselves (i.e. the present king and his father) had to come to Ife to meet their overlord (the Ooni) for confirmation & the culmination post ascension rites. See attachments.

In any case, the Yoruba side simply confirm what the pre-1970 cBenin kings said based on extant records.
And we brought it to Nairaland. We simply stated history.


Moreover, Mr. Cyril Punch who toured Yoruba cities and was also in Benin wrote in his 1889 Journal that:

“As a town, Benin was inconsiderable compared with places like Ibadan, Iseyhin, Shaki, Modakeke, and Abeokuta. There was no wealth, nor was there even power, except the power of the influence of fetish, and the sense of the spirit of a long past of atrocities, which, if not supernatural, were at any rate unnatural to a degree which is indescribable. I remember the return of two of Miller Brothers' men from a visit they paid to Benin after I had been there. They arrived at Guatun one evening, and showed plainly in their faces the mental strain that their visit had been to them.”

As for the Ife ‘bronze’ sculptures, the quotation here (is from an academic, expert, and professional Art Historian) shows IFE on the same pedestal as Greek, Rome, and Egypt.

“[The Ife sculptures] would stand comparison with anything which Ancient Egypt, Classical Greece and Rome, or Renaissance Europe had to offer”.

~ Frank Willett, “Ife and Its Archaeology,” The Journal of African History, Vol. 1, No. 2 (1960), p. 239.

No such comparison with the great arts of the world is recorded for Benin. Show me one

——————
Regarding the father-Ife/son-Benin classic connection, refer again to the following comments for a harsh reminder (and some trauma) which you were earlier on being endowed with:

This is not true.

Eyewitness testimony/writings from the late-1400s & early-1500s which references the monarch of the Ife kingdom & his suzerainty over Benin kingdom exist.

NB: Yes, there used to be a debate in academia in the 1970s/1980s (between the mainstream scholars on one hand; and one, two, or three others on another hand) over the identity of this suzerain.

This debate was particularly on the usage of the word “east” in those early writings.

In present time, however, there is no single academic historian who holds the notion that this suzerain (of the early writings) is other than the Ooni of Ife [i.e. Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni Ufẹ̀ in the Ife dialect of the Yoruba language].

The symbol ⟨ɣ⟩ being the voiced velar fricative with its consonant sound as in this audio sample.

This conclusion is reinforced by the fact that no king, throughout the Guinea Forest of West Africa matches the specific sacral details given in those early writings, except the Ooni of Ife.

In addition to this significant fact, the debate over the word “east” was subsequently quelled by the fact that
from Atakpame (in present-day Togo) to the kingdom of Benin (in present-day Nigeria), from Èkó (next to the Atlantic Ocean) to Ọ̀yọ́-Ilé (not far from the Niger River) Ife is known by the interesting epithet: Ibi ojúmọ́ ti ń mọ́ wá — i.e. “the place from where the sun rises”.

For some written references to the widespread usage of this epithet (in reference to Ife) among the natives of this region of West Africa, please refer to:

(A) Rev. D. Hinderer, “Diary Impression,” June 4, 1851, Ibadan, C.M.S.

(B) R. Horton (1979), p. 89., citing B. Maupoil (1943), A. Akinjogbin (1967:41-43), R. Smith (1969:31), as well as A. Obayemi (1976:206).

This reverential (rather than literal) epithet of Ife informed the literalist Europeans’ writings whose source(s) are Benin spokespersons of their king.

Hence the appearance of the word “east” in the early European writings in reference to the kingdom of the Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni (who is transliterated in the early writings as “Hooguanee”, “Ogané”, etc.).

Side Note: Binis, till today, still sometimes refer to the Ooni as Oghene. Refer to the entry “ɔɣɛnɛ” (i.e. “ọghẹnẹ”) in Hans Melzian’s “A Concise Dictionary of the Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” where its second definition is given as: “Bini name for the ↄni at Ile Ife”

Moreover, another piece of historical evidence which quelled the academic debate on the word “east” (as is seen in the early writings in reference to this overlord) are early maps.

There are maps (e.g. from the early 1500s) which show the phrase Dominion of the Orguene annotated across the western half of today’s Nigeria.

These historical information leaves anyone (not only the historians) with the only logical conclusion that the appearance of the word “east” in those early writings is of course not literal.

In conclusion, contrary to your ignorant assumption, there are writings from the early 1500s (on the basis of interviews of Bini representatives in the late 1400s) which references the king of Ife & his overlordship on Benin kingdom and other places.

Apart from early writings, there are other types of historical evidence which also establish clearly that there exist a classic (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

These other type of historical evidence which I come to here are classical artifacts from the hard science of archaeology. One crucial examples in this regard is discussed below.

The artifact shown in this link is the image of an Ooni of Ife. ~ S. P. Blier, “Art in Ancient Ife,” 2012, Figure 17.

The Ife naturalism of this artifact, its facial striations, as well as its classical Ife ceremonial costume and the pair of chest ornament help art historians (as well as Benin chroniclers alike) with identifying this image as an Ooni of Ife.

What is very, very crucial here is that this artifact was found in the archaeological deposits of Benin. To be more precise, it was excavated from the royal palace of Benin kingdom.

Furthermore, the production date of this artifact has now been established by science. This artifact is dated, by thermoluminescence technique, to the year 1420 [± 60 years].

~ Calvocoressi & David, “A New Survey of Radiocarbon and Thermoluminescence Dates for West Africa,” 1979, p. 19.

For more pictorial angles (and details) regarding this particular artifact, please refer to:

(A) W. Fagg, “A Bronze Figure in Ife Style at Benin,” British Museum, June 1950, Plate Fa, Fb, Fc

(B) F. Willett, “Ife in the History of West African Sculpture,” McGraw-Hill, 1967, Figure 89.

(C) C. Adepegba, “The Descent from Oduduwa,” 1986, Plate 4.

In other words, a more-than 500-year-old ‘bronze’ cast of an Ooni Ife was discovered in the (archaeological deposits of the) palace of Benin kingdom.

In conclusion, it thus becomes clear that there exists a classical (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

Again, this conclusion which I have inevitably reached is not mine. This is simply the conclusion of historical scholarship. This can be seen in the following works:

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

A beautiful summary of this conclusion of scholars of
African history (some of whose names and works are listed above) is shown in the page below from Adam Knobler (2016), p.47.

Peace!

PS: (1) Omonoba (king’s child) Akenzua II visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.

Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Akenzua himself just became Benin king.

(2) Omonoba (king’s child) Erediauwa (i.e. Akenzua II’s successor) also visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.

Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Erediauwa himself just became Benin king.

(3) Omonoba (king’s child) Ewuare II (i.e. Erediauwa’s successor) also visited Ooni of Ife at Ife.

Not because the Ooni was having a party, but because Ewuare II himself just became Benin king.

The three of them were so humble in the presence of their father & overlord.

Who born monkey?

The oba of benin visit all monarchs who attends his coronation do you want me to show you picture of him visiting other monarchs... Lol desperado

If you want to troll atleast troll with truth....


But do you know what the oba of benin have never one day attended ooni of ife coronation inshort nobody not even international dignitaries the last coronation naso we hear say queen if England go send representatives come,... Lol not even mc olomo we nor see not to talk talk of queen of England


But compare it to that of oba of benin coronation ... Yorubas will always be living at our shadows. No wonder they send Tao11 to false fully claim benin history for Yorubas

TAO11:
Thanks gregyboy for reposting that eyewitness account.

Benin children want eyewitness only when it talks about Benin in a somewhat good light.

If such eyewitness — Europeans or not — says the truth about their low place in comparison to their Yoruba masters; Benin children activate sore-loser mode.

It is a Benin mental illness actually.

Thank you for helping me prove it.

The readers now know.
—————
PS:
I will always appear to debunk Benin lies — even if I’m *******

And that’s not ending.

.


Even if you are hornyy.... With your rotten teeth

gregyboy:
.[s]Even if you are hornyy.... With your rotten teeth[/s]

Haha! That one enter. E pepper am.

TAO11:
Haha! That one enter-am. E pepper am.

Lets troll with truth not lies i know you go add lies


Samuk


Ooni of ife was rumored to have the quuen of England invited for his coronation the thread was pulled down even before any confirmation

TAO11:
Actually, your question is retar.ded — and it exposes you to be dumber than you actually appear. Yet you think of them as some Nobel winning question. LMAO! I would be shocked to find that you are not autistic.


As I once said, you Binis are actually too foolish to be ignored. Ignoring you Binis means, to you, that you’ve stated facts. You all are a bunch of clowns!

First of all, Benin City wasn’t burnt to the ground during the punishment.

The palace & some buildings were burnt — not the whole city as you put it..

Moving on from that, you disgraced yourself again as always when you thought Ife wasn’t destroyed.

Even the most retarded and autistic of my Edo slaves know that Ife and some Yoruba cities were literally in ruins by the end of the 1800s — courtesy of the civil wars of the Yorubas.

As ravaged as it is, the ruins of the palace (long after the civil war) was described (by a German ethnologist who visited the site in the early 1900s) in glorious and illustrious terms. See some examples below:

(1) “A minute or two after twelve midday the monumental ruins of the Ooni’s “palace” met our gaze. We stood before the portal of the castle in the middle of an enormous square. I sent Bida in to announce us, waited for some time, made my horse climb the high flight of steps and rode through the delicately-carved door of the entrance, across the courtyard and through the dilapidated colonnades with my companions. It was like an enchanted castle. It was so large and noble in design, so superbly pure despite its broken lines, its mouldering to decay and the sordid exterior it now presents. We did not meet a single soul. At last we came to where there were some people, and there, clad in a gorgeous robe of bright green silk, a magnificent tiara on his brow, and shaded by a huge silken canopy, the Oni, the head of the Holy City of Ife’s hierarchy, advanced to meet us with a great crowd.”

~ Leo Frobenius, “Voice of Africa,” (1913), p.77.


(2) “The Palace of the Oni, whose massive walls meet the eye from whatever quarter one approaches it, is that which most impress everyone who visits the Ilifé of to-day. Its front, especially, with the fine open square on which it stands, makes an imposing effect in spite of all its ruin. The masonry of the façade is still in fair condition, although it is denuded and devoid of interest. The walls are more mighty, over a yard broad at the base and some eighteen feet high.”

~ Leo Frobenius, “Voice of Africa,” (1913), p.276.

(3) “Poor Oni! Poor Palace! How are the mighty fallen! Once a glorious edifice here reared itself aloft, built of bricks well burnt, brilliant with colored tiles and sundry other ornament! Here on this very spot, the horses stamped their hoofs; here the breath of life exhaled from many a human victim offered up, while this strange country’s high priests chanted prayers.”

~ Leo Frobenius, “Voice of Africa,” (1913), p.277.

You are a disgrace only to yourself, your family & your friends.

Peace!

TAO11 Modakeke People proudly boast that they Levelled Ife and Chased them out of Town at least on 3 Occasions and their Ife relations also returned the favour on 3 Occasions

On one occasion the Ife People spent many years living around Oke-Igbo in Ondo State as refugees , on another Occasion Modakeke People spent 20 years at OdeOmu and Gbogan in Osun State

But because so many Modakeke had Ife Mothers and relatives ( Modakeke Warriors had a bad habit of Chasing Away Ife men during their communal Wars while keeping the Ife Women for themselves) , whenever pangs of family Conscience set in Ife was always encouraged to resettle their Town again

Lets troll

Tao11
Truthvalue
Christistruth00


Representative from ooni of ife coronation notice the oba of benin didn't attend the coronation event....
The suprior kings
Doesn't attend the crowning of its own vassal

Truthvalue


This is for you you indeed know the worth of our oba

Uk representing to the oba of benin coronation meanwhile ooni of ife didn't even see mc olomo or tinubu in his coronation

gregyboy:
[s]The oba of benin visit all monarchs who attends his coronation do you want me to show you picture of him visiting other monarchs... Lol desperado
If you want to troll atleast troll with truth...[/s]

Yes he visited many dignitaries, claiming he wants to thank them — cover up.

But where must he first visit? You will find out in the video below.

What are some of the things he must do at his first place of visit? You will find out in the video.


Channels TV News report was live on ground at Ife during Omonoba (king’s child) Ewuare 2’s visit to the Ooni of Ife at Ife:

Go to time-stamp 0:24 to 0:34, and you would find the following words:

“...his FIRST port of call is the palace of the Ooni of Ife, Oba Adeyeye Ogunwusi — where he also paid HOMAGE to all Benin kings believed to have been buried there.”


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZhU2AmpvJk

My questions now are as follows:

(1) Why must the Ooni’s palace the first place your oba visits?

(2) Did your oba also pay homage at the residence of the other dignitaries he visited?

Clearly, the other visits are purely face-saving.

But do you know what the oba of benin have never one day attended ooni of ife coronation

First of all, attending coronation a party is not a required traditional custom. In fact, the coronation party svent is a modern innovation.

Secondly, Erediauwa was the Benin king, at the time of the coronation party of the present Ooni. Guess why he couldn’t attend his “FATHER”s” (the Ooni’s ) party. Take a while guess.

Erediauwa was already a dying bed-ridden sick old man as at the time of the present Ooni’s coronation. and he does only 4 months after the coronation to tell you how bad he was bed-ridden. The whole world knows this.

Bed ridden sick dying old people don’t go to parties as far as I know.

But as for prior kings of Benin, whether they attend Ooni’s parties or not (even though such parties aren’t a traditional requirement) that is for you to prove. We are waiting.

[s]inshort nobody not even international dignitaries the last coronation naso we hear say queen if England go send representatives come,... Lol not even mc olomo we nor see not to talk talk of queen of England[/s]

Can we see a proof for your claim — even though I personally don’t care if light skinned people or Albinos attend. Talk of low-self esteem for Binis.

[s]But compare it to that of oba of benin coronation ... Yorubas will always be living at our shadows. No wonder they send Tao11 to false fully claim benin history for Yorubas[/s]

Light skinned people came to your oba’s party? Wow!

Now I agree that Benin is GrEaTeR tHaN Japan.

What am I even saying? Oba of Benin owns Japan in the first place. LMAO!

———————
THE ATTACHMENTS:

(1) Regarding your first attached screenshot:

The opinion expressed in that screenshot is of a certain Ryder from the year 1965.

Guess what has happened between 1965 and 2021 in the field of historical scholarship of African history.

The field of historical scholarship of African history has unanimously debunked that opinion from Ryder.

See for example:

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

A summary of this unanimous conclusion of scholars is aptly put in a 2016 publication as attached below in the screenshot below.

(2) Regarding your second attached screenshot:

The fact you truly believe that this screenshot refutes anything says it all about your grasp of English. You need “Brighter Grammar”.

To help your life, I will dumb-down the content of that screenshot for you step by step below:

(A) The general Yoruba tradition is that they and their kings trace back to king Oduduwa of Ife.

(B) The exact wording “the heritage of Oduduwa” isn't necessarily the same precise wording in usage among the Yorubas; but their usage obviously have the same effect as “the heritage of Oduduwa”.

(C) There is at least one of the Yorùbá kingdoms which has something quite strange to say — and this is Oyo kingdom.

(D) This strange claim is found by this scholar (whose screenshot you attached) to be a latter Oyo invention which Oyo itself didn’t have/belief ab-initio.

(E) This scholar found that Oyo invented this claim at a time when it became an imperial power in the region just for the propaganda of a false superiority over the rulers of Ife whose office is paramount.

Having dumbed-down your own screenshot for you, I am aware that these points [(A), (B), (C), (D), & (E)] are still probably too hard for you to see in your screenshot.

As such, I will cite other specific relevant passages from the same article where Prof. R.C.C. Law made this conclusion much clearer.

R.C.C. Law writes (while debunking the spurious and strange claims which intends to challenge the Ooni’s superiority) as follows:

“Certain traditions relating to the ancestry of the Oni of Ife appear to have been devised specifically in order to counter the Oni's very plausible claim to paramount status. ... This denial of true royal ancestry to the Oni of Ife offered an opportunity for other kings to claim for themselves primacy of status among the descendants of Oduduwa.”
~ Page 212.

Moreover, after combing through the evidences, R. C. C. Law then summarizes his find on the last page as follows:

“SUMMARY
••• The article considers the political implications of the Yoruba traditions of origin, and seeks to relate the existence of certain variants of the tradition to the use of it for purposes of political propaganda. In particular, it is suggested that the tradition was manipulated and modified in an attempt to support the claims to paramountcy of the king of Oyo, when this kingdom became the most powerful state in the Yoruba area during the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries•••”.
~ Page 224.


Why are you a serial loser?

Peace!
Cc: r4bbit, nisai

What do I do?:

I debunk lies — by adducing evidence, proof, and reason.


Peace!

Truthvalue:
So bight of Benin has become "yorubaland", fake map, fake stories, fake brain, olu317, you are a 419.

An actual precolonial map of the region:

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b.r=Benin?rk=386268;0

I thought your moniker "TruthV alue", actually value truth but reverse is the case. Seriously, it is unfortunate with the manner at which you guys keep fleeing after being bashed with gazzeted account ,which TAO11 and others have proven you all wrong even on this your newest diversion from the question you asked me.

Without any controversy, the King of portugal and his portuguese government durin the bilateral trade with Benin wanted to know this great Ooni, king of all kings but clearly Oba Ewaure purported intention was to exchange his farm produce for ammunition,which was not successful with his aggressive approach to acquire military warfare,until late second part of fifteen century when another Oba Bini came to power.

Having clearly, proven to you that the distance from Ughotton to Ileife is untenable for Ekaladerhan to trek to, with fairytale from e-edowarriors. It's known fact that Ogiso Owodo's only Son's descendant, served a Yoruba Prince, Oranmiyan's Son as his Olokun's chief priest in Ughotton.


Lastly, Ughotton being a Port do not show significant about inlet or the creek of being called "bight of Benin" during 1472-1506 of Portuguese . Afterall bight of Benin is from which language ? Britain of course in (1852) to declare it as her protectorate. Beside, Bini is a Yoruba name, either give or take, the reference of this name connect the name to the overlord Yorubas , who dwell in Igodomigodo as the descendants of the king of all kings.