₦airaland Forum

Lamanii22:
I am a parent now, I would never show my children porn....

It's hard to imagine he did that. I hope he never molested you?

Rozcol:
All Nigerian men have pornographic videos on their phones,even the religious ones are not left out,porn is demonic but these men don't know hence the reason they are all perverts

What's the basis for your extrapolation?
You gat shit against Naija men?

duchaB:
What's the basis for your extrapolation? You gat shit against Naija men?

Are Nigerian men not shit?talk true

CsRockefeller:
It's hard to imagine he did that. I hope he never molested you?

No.... Not at all... He wasn't just the best dad but I love him all the same... He's learnt his lessons though... He apologized...

Lamanii22:
No.... Not at all... He wasn't just the best dad but I love him all the same... He's learnt his lessons though... He apologized...

Nice to hear.

cooooooks:
Hope he'll or she'll arrest their children for the porn.

Their children? You know that his children will act porn, abi?

Watch.

Even if it is one time.

Magnoliaa:
Their children? You know that his children will act porn, abi?

I think porn should be consumed healthily and not unhealthily..

..

cooooooks:
Watch.

Even if it is one time.

Okay. I have no problem with his ideology towards porn. It is very very possible to raise your kids to detest porn and for them to desist from watching it even behind your back. Okay, they 'can' watch it or maybe see it, accidentally or for educational purposes of sort (if you don't create a rigid taboo principle in your house, they won't be curious or be enamored with whatever it's about). To know what actually happens in it. It seems to me you are coming from a place of its inevitability. I don't believe people can't do without watching it. It seems that way because it's so normalized. Something is/happens ≠ it's okay, but people think otherwise. I'm against pornography, from a feminist stance. And yes, I've watched it before. I don't as a habit. Like going searching for it or intentionally seeking it often. I'm not addicted but I want to stop watching it completely (as in times when I come across it). I don't even ever want to see it. For life. But until I completely (build my resolve and) stick to that value, so as not to seem like an hypocrite, my criticism of and fight against it will be... kind of less radical. I cannot believe women are harmed by and in it and want people's attitude towards it to change while I support it with my money, data, time and affiliations. Nah.

I no dey argue oh. And I'm not being a moralist here. Ion care what people do with their bodies and cameras, but if it is an avenue for perpetrating women's subjugation and inequality... which mainstream porn happens to foment... if you believe otherwise, OK, 'You're right.'

- I don't think porn is a good thing. Kids are getting started on porn from as young as 8 nowadays (not just in Nigeria). Kids are not starting from porn websites directly, youtube "children cartoons" and even classic Cartoon shows generate such interest.

- It is not easy to parent exactly how you would like. What I mean is, from my understanding, I will have to police my children's tv shows, online viewing, monitor screen time, get them involved in as many outdoor activities as is healthy, etc. I will be a very involved parent.

- Porn is very liberalized now such that abuse of female pornstars is quite rare. Porn performers now can control their 'art' and be their own distributors. There is also different fields/genres that the possibility of abuse seems quite low.

- I think porn is bad for many guys. The christian community has a serious problem with porn that remains unaddressed until marriage. For at least the last 2 decades, there has been a "war on porn" in the christian community.

I appreciate your honesty and truthfulness on your approach to the matter. No one is perfect and I'm not always right ( )

Magnoliaa:
Okay. I have no problem with his ideology towards porn. It is very very possible to raise your kids to detest porn and for them to desist from watching it even behind your back. Okay, they 'can' watch it or maybe see it, accidentally or for educational purposes of sort (if you don't create a rigid taboo principle in your house, they won't be curious or be enamored with whatever it's about). To know what actually happens in it. It seems to me you are coming from a place of its inevitability. I don't believe people can't do without watching it. It seems that way because it's so normalized. Something is/happens ≠ it's okay, but people think otherwise. I'm against pornography, from a feminist stance. And yes, I've watched it before. I don't as a habit. Like going searching for it or intentionally seeking it often. I'm not addicted but I want to stop watching it completely (as in times when I come across it). I don't even ever want to see it. For life. But until I completely (build my resolve and) stick to that value, so as not to seem like an hypocrite, my criticism of and fight against it will be... kind of less radical. I cannot believe women are harmed by and in it and want people's attitude towards it to change while I support it with my money, data, time and affiliations. Nah.

I no dey argue oh. And I'm not being a moralist here. Ion care what people do with their bodies and cameras, but if it is an avenue for perpetrating women's subjugation and inequality... which mainstream porn happens to foment... if you believe otherwise, OK, 'You're right.'

cooooooks:
- I don't think porn is a good thing. Kids are getting started on porn from as young as 8 nowadays (not just in Nigeria). Kids are not starting from porn websites directly, youtube "children cartoons" and even classic Cartoon shows generate such interest.

- It is not easy to parent exactly how you would like. What I mean is, from my understanding, I will have to police my children's tv shows, online viewing, monitor screen time, get them involved in as many outdoor activities as is healthy, etc. I will be a very involved parent.

- Porn is very liberalized now such that abuse of female pornstars is quite rare. Porn performers now can control their 'art' and be their own distributors. There is also different fields/genres that the possibility of abuse seems quite low.

- I think porn is bad for many guys. The christian community has a serious problem with porn that remains unaddressed until marriage. For at least the last 2 decades, there has been a "war on porn" in the christian community.

I appreciate your honesty and truthfulness on your approach to the matter. No one is perfect and I'm not always right ( )

I appreciate your views as well. Thanks for sharing and being respectful. I just tend to avoid discussing about it as it can be quite "divisive." Especially when you're automatically labeled a prude for having criticisms about it. It's a kind of grey area for me concerning your third point especially. I don't have all the facts. How much of porn is consensual/misogynistic? How many are independent-owned/corporate-owned (like Pornhub and co.)? And which of those groups control and drive mainstream attitude towards sexuality (and women)? You can find evidence for and against any position. Pornhub right now is an hotbed of abuse, child and revenge porn, clips of women flashing (without their knowledge), etc., and is embroiled in a series of legal battle with different women, there's no proper verification of uploads nor users/members. And *that* is the go-to number 1 site for the average male to get off (you should see their annual statistics mehn). So it's somehow like the "not all men" clapback. So which man? Yes, not all porn, too. But which porn or how many? It's just such a sad phenomenon.

Yeah, we don't know it all and cannot do it all. Alone.

There's nothing wrong in being considered a prude. I prefer to be less prudish with the right people.

Pornhub has done a massive cleanup of their site but no video uploading site with millions of hours of footage can stop all unacceptable videos from going up. Even for a few minutes. Not even Youtube.

I must say that the internet is A LOT cleaner now than 20 or 15 years ago.

The porn industry as a whole has serious sexism. Male actors are paid much less than female actors and black males suffer severe racism: by viewers and people in the industry. I also think way too many men debase themselves just to get with some porn 'celebrity' and many male 'fans' perform for free or pay for it.

I think young men need to be guided, by other men, to focus on themselves, to never overpay (or at all) for porn, onlyfans, models, etc. This is one of the positives of MGTOW for young growing men. Overall, I don't see the usefulness of porn when one is in a healthy, consensual relationship. I don't think it is a 'good' but I expect it to be here forever with even wierder and more risque categories/divisions, etc.

Magnoliaa:
I appreciate your views as well. Thanks for sharing and being respectful. I just tend to avoid discussing about it as it can be quite "divisive." Especially when you're automatically labeled a prude for having criticisms about it. It's a kind of grey area for me concerning your third point especially. I don't have all the facts. How much of porn is consensual/misogynistic? How many are independent-owned/corporate-owned (like Pornhub and co.)? And which of those groups control and drive mainstream attitude towards sexuality (and women)? You can find evidence for and against any position. Pornhub right now is an hotbed of abuse, child and revenge porn, clips of women flashing (without their knowledge), etc., and is embroiled in a series of legal battle with different women, there's no proper verification of uploads nor users/members. And *that* is the go-to number 1 site for the average male to get off (you should see their annual statistics mehn). So it's somehow like the "not all men" clapback. So which man? Yes, not all porn, too. But which porn or how many? It's just such a sad phenomenon.

Yeah, we don't know it all and cannot do it all. Alone.

cooooooks:
There's nothing wrong in being considered a prude. I prefer to be less prudish with the right people.

Hmm. Okay, lol.

Pornhub has done a massive cleanup of their site but no video uploading site with millions of hours of footage can stop all unacceptable videos from going up. Even for a few minutes. Not even Youtube.

Yeah, but that's because of the "exposé." Being spearheaded by the courageous feminist woman Laila Mickelwait. They "cut" off most of their videos from about 10million+ or so to just a little more than 2 million. That's the cleanup you're referring to, right? I think there's a difference between abuse being on the outskirts of an organization, than it being its core. If abuse wasn't central to pornhub — why that MASSIVE cleanup? Sure they cannot control everything, so let's say about 500,000 to a million videos escaped their notice, but guyyyyy these people have deleted almost all of their website, lmao. A user was even complaining that all the cool stuff on Xvideos are gone as well because they don't want pornhub 2.0. If you had to delete the "cool stuff" from your porn site for fear of legal clamp down and lawsuits, that says a lot about the stuff on there. Then again, pornhub owners are/were aware of these things. They know. Some of the women taking up charges against the giant company talk about how pornhub approved videos of their rape, their identities fully disclosed and they try to get them to take it down but they wouldn't.

I must say that the internet is A LOT cleaner now than 20 or 15 years ago.

Really? You think so? How much cleaner? In what areas? What's something about it that's changed from then compared to now?

The porn industry as a whole has serious sexism. Male actors are paid much less than female actors and black males suffer severe racism: by viewers and people in the industry. I also think way too many men debase themselves just to get with some porn 'celebrity' and many male 'fans' perform for free or pay for it.

Wow. Okay. I don't know some of these things you're saying. They're new to me, especially from the male's POV but I'm willing to see things from that angle. You aren't being antagonistically "men, too, so shut up about women's issues" and it's easy talking about them. And what they face. What you've described is heartbreaking and pitiful, if true (but really most likely true, because it's the porn industry). Nobody should be getting degraded and used in such ways whether they are a minute or major percentage. No man deserves to live like that. Selling and objectifying himself. I know how hard it is for women already; the trauma and all, so I can imagine how it must be like for the men in the industry, but still I exactly do not know, yunno? I'm sure being a man adds a unique layer of experience to what they go through.

I think young men need to be guided, by other men, to focus on themselves, to never overpay (or at all) for porn, onlyfans, models, etc. This is one of the positives of MGTOW for young growing men. Overall, I don't see the usefulness of porn when one is in a healthy, consensual relationship. I don't think it is a 'good' but I expect it to be here forever with even wierder and more risque categories/divisions, etc.

Hmm. This is a lot to take in. But firstly, really?? MGTOW supports that and encourages men not to pay for women's sexual services? Wow. That's awesome. And shocking and surprising. Iiiiii see the difference of framework here now, but hearing that I don't exactly think we want different things. It's just how we conceptualize and approach our sexes' issues that cause all the whole big drama. I see it as men buying and women selling. And that idea, of nipping males' demand for women's sexual services is a radical feminist idea. Yes. I don't want men paying/buying and I don't want women selling. This set up fuvks up our relationships the more, but most people don't see it and it's too complex a discussion to go into. Although, on 'your' side, you tend to see it as women having the power, but from 'here' it's you men who have the power. And consensual healthy relationships as well. Yes, radical feminists support this (they are not the separatist ones and most people do not know this). Radical feminism (and the second wave) is actually against prostitution, pornography, sex dolls, BDSM, the beauty industry, surrogacy/eggs donation (it deals with the ROOT, but I'm neither pro- or anti- the things I just listed exactly, but I agree with some of their views). Men kill themselves doing crimes to make money, women kill themselves doing surgeries to get perfect bodies. What they are getting is what the other sex desires and has been conditioned to want.

I believe these things developed or are encouraged, as we're social beings. And from my little knowledge, there is no evidence of these practices in our ancestors...the hunters-gatherers (these are the first, right?) Those people were more equal and egalitarian — sexually and socially — predating communism, capitalism, organized religions, agricultural and horticultural, city-state societies. You can cite examples of orgies of our 'ancestors' and sacred ancient sexual texts and inscriptions on temple walls to show the basis of humans' sexual wildness, but did our history start from there? If we go farther back than all of that? It's evident patriarchy hasn't always been the default, ergo, its associated imbalances and ills and conditions.

Yunno, if porn should become "feminist" it'll cease to be porn as we know it. You'll only have homemade videos of clumsy, imperfect humans having 'natural' sex/lovemaking, plus intimacy. I doubt a high number of everyday people will want to have such videos being consumed for others' viewing pleasure. And, because men are much of the visually inclined gender, with their adrenaline and all and major consumers of porn that gets them off quickly, the hair-pulling, choking, pounding deep-Drinking ass-gaping shits will continue to sell. I don't know how you wanna make those feministic because women (collectively) will not even watch. Unless they are groomed and brainwashed.

Full disclosure, pornhub is based in Montreal and is a massive organization. I've met a few people (maybe 2) who actually worked there (not porn stars). These PornHub vidéos that raised controversy were not produced by the company. They were uploaded by individuals.

The site allows people to upload which has been an argument in preventing exploitation. I believe they also require performers to prove their identity before giving them the license to upload. An argument in a more amateurish approach (that I've heard from discussions) is that amateur videos bring people directly to the content, more money for the performers and more 'power' for the mostly female performers who can now provide their 'service' without a studio, director, etc.

On debasement, there are borderline degradation and due to different reasons
e.g: the white guy going to Thailand or some African country, paying girls (and indeed men) a few hundred dollars to produce exclusive content that will make many thousands more is a very common form of exploitation. There have also been some issues about the gay porn but I'm not sure about that and there is little coverage.

Porn is mostly women selling and men buying, that's for sure. Sex work, porn, etc is currently being pushed on young people. With lies. People are being driven into selling themselves under the guise of body positivity and the f word, feminism. Thankfully, I've seen some tik toks of other young ladies calling out this glorification of becoming a sexual object.

On terms like red pill and feminism: people use words however they want. I tend to avoid these 2 terms specifically because they could mean anything. Your feminism (on this issue) is a LOT more prude than a self acclaimed feminist on other social media. Who am I, you, or anyone else, to say who is right and who is wrong. Same goes with red pill talk. Some TRP are more MGTOW while some self acclaimed TRP focus on being pickup artists.

I'd like you to explain how in the market you described: women selling physicality (many forms without any actual sex) to men who have no other option; 'men have the power'? I don't believe I ever said anything about any gender broadly having the 'power' and I have no 'side'. I'm neither buying nor selling sex (no matter how much you ask )

I also reject, out of hand, any notion of 'patriarchy' in the classic feminist sense of the word: men ruling and controlling the world with men being servants. There is no patriarchy and there hasn't been format least a few hundred years globally.

There is a lot of porn as you described already. The amateur porn industry is huge and disperse. This is what onkyfans was used for before covid. People watch this kind of porn: men and women. I will also caution against extrapolating all women's sexual desires. Not all (I'd say not even a minority) want blasé sexual experiences. In direct contradiction to your assertions, Google pegging feminist. You should find a plethora of articles on the subject. The desire for rougher elements like choking, r*pe 'play', etc is also a fascinating topic of research and study which I fear you are alien to. I listened regularly, many years ago, to a 'feminist sex' podcast. The number one problem for ladies was that their men were not rough enough. The classic dilemma was: "I want him to try XYZ, or be harder, rougher, slap me a little, objectify me but don't know how to tell him I want these things". I haven't watched 50 shades of grey and likely never will of my own volition. However, I read the first book. The sex in the book was rough, degrading, etc. I've been informed by friends that the movie is at least as drastic as the book. That movie is loved by women, including feminists. I think your idea of what men and wome want in the bedroom (or kitchen) is incomplete.

Cheers. That was wayyy too long. Let me go and look for money biko.

Magnoliaa:
Hmm. Okay, lol.


Yeah, but that's because of the "exposé." Being spearheaded by the courageous feminist woman Laila Mickelwait. They "cut" off most of their videos from about 10million+ or so to just a little more than 2 million. That's the cleanup you're referring to, right? I think there's a difference between abuse being on the outskirts of an organization, than it being its core. If abuse wasn't central to pornhub — why that MASSIVE cleanup? Sure they cannot control everything, so let's say about 500,000 to a million videos escaped their notice, but guyyyyy these people have deleted almost all of their website, lmao. A user was even complaining that all the cool stuff on Xvideos are gone as well because they don't want pornhub 2.0. If you had to delete the "cool stuff" from your porn site for fear of legal clamp down and lawsuits, that says a lot about the stuff on there. Then again, pornhub owners are/were aware of these things. They know. Some of the women taking up charges against the giant company talk about how pornhub approved videos of their rape, their identities fully disclosed and they try to get them to take it down but they wouldn't.


Really? You think so? How much cleaner? In what areas? What's something about it that's changed from then compared to now?


Wow. Okay. I don't know some of these things you're saying. They're new to me, especially from the male's POV but I'm willing to see things from that angle. You aren't being antagonistically "men, too, so shut up about women's issues" and it's easy talking about them. And what they face. What you've described is heartbreaking and pitiful, if true (but really most likely true, because it's the porn industry). Nobody should be getting degraded and used in such ways whether they are a minute or major percentage. No man deserves to live like that. Selling and objectifying himself. I know how hard it is for women already; the trauma and all, so I can imagine how it must be like for the men in the industry, but still I exactly do not know, yunno? I'm sure being a man adds a unique layer of experience to what they go through.



Hmm. This is a lot to take in. But firstly, really?? MGTOW supports that and encourages men not to pay for women's sexual services? Wow. That's awesome. And shocking and surprising. Iiiiii see the difference of framework here now, but hearing that I don't exactly think we want different things. It's just how we conceptualize and approach our sexes' issues that cause all the whole big drama. I see it as men buying and women selling. And that idea, of nipping males' demand for women's sexual services is a radical feminist idea. Yes. I don't want men paying/buying and I don't want women selling. This set up fuvks up our relationships the more, but most people don't see it and it's too complex a discussion to go into. Although, on 'your' side, you tend to see it as women having the power, but from 'here' it's you men who have the power. And consensual healthy relationships as well. Yes, radical feminists support this (they are not the separatist ones and most people do not know this). Radical feminism (and the second wave) is actually against prostitution, pornography, sex dolls, BDSM, the beauty industry, surrogacy/eggs donation (it deals with the ROOT, but I'm neither pro- or anti- the things I just listed exactly, but I agree with some of their views). Men kill themselves doing crimes to make money, women kill themselves doing surgeries to get perfect bodies. What they are getting is what the other sex desires and has been conditioned to want.

I believe these things developed or are encouraged, as we're social beings. And from my little knowledge, there is no evidence of these practices in our ancestors...the hunters-gatherers (these are the first, right?) Those people were more equal and egalitarian — sexually and socially — predating communism, capitalism, organized religions, agricultural and horticultural, city-state societies. You can cite examples of orgies of our 'ancestors' and sacred ancient sexual texts and inscriptions on temple walls to show the basis of humans' sexual wildness, but did our history start from there? If we go farther back than all of that? It's evident patriarchy hasn't always been the default, ergo, its associated imbalances and ills and conditions.

Yunno, if porn should become "feminist" it'll cease to be porn as we know it. You'll only have homemade videos of clumsy, imperfect humans having 'natural' sex/lovemaking, plus intimacy. I doubt a high number of everyday people will want to have such videos being consumed for others' viewing pleasure. And, because men are much of the visually inclined gender, with their adrenaline and all and major consumers of porn that gets them off quickly, the hair-pulling, choking, pounding deep-Drinking ass-gaping shits will continue to sell. I don't know how you wanna make those feministic because women (collectively) will not even watch. Unless they are groomed and brainwashed.

Yeahh. Lol. It is way too long. Phew. I feel this issue is divided along theoretical vs. practical lines. So they gave autonomy and power and control yada yada yada to women and individuals. Shit still happened, so? In theory, these things always sound alluring and empowering. But the facts are:-
-Women were still exploited
-Pornhub deleted "all" of its website (I hope you get the connotation of 'all')
-Organizations (Mastercard, for example) severed working relationships with them
-They are being investigated
-They were AWARE of such videos and DID NOTHING when the women in question brought it to their notice (I'll try post a proof below).

I'm not going to go all into twisting words, etc., to 'defend' them or give them a way out/cut them some slack. Let them face the wrath of the law. The same thing happened with the Paradise brothel in Germany and the Playboy mansion of Hugh Hefner. On the surface, they were always touted as sex-positive, feminist-friendly, while behind the scenes, they do shit to women, under the cover of the law. "Oh, women have choices, there are regulations and laws to protect them already, so let's move on to the next, shallow feel-good word plays." I mean, that's about it. So yeah I really really understand the arguments and all the pro-arguments. Logically, I can't (yet) disprove them. They make sense. But in REALITY, things are still happening to women in these pseudo-liberal spaces. That Paradise, for instance, was a talking point for some feminists and they idolized it, worshipped it and always dangle it as the eldorado of the ideal sex work company. This brothel had celebrity status and TV segments dedicated to it. Wo. I can't go into all that. Meanwhile, for more than fifteen years or close to nineteen years, the owner was selling and trading women, was involved in so many crimes and guess what? Guy got only five years in jail for the lifetime untold trauma he's caused for thousands of women. I absolutely do not get how women think men suddenly turn to ethical, savvy and respectable business men and angels and saints in the sex industry, when in other facets of society, they treat us like shit. Hefner called women dogs and bitches as well while they lived in deplorable conditions in that 'nirvana' Hollywood mansion and dream of stars - urine-soaked beds, rat-infested rooms, etc. Facts came out after his death. So from Playboy to Paradise to Pornhub, the trend has been consistent. I have no doubt, none whatsoever, that OnlyFans will follow suit. Just give it a few years.

My bad. I figured you were a redpiller? You did tell me that once. I'm sure of it. So I guessed you were one of them, but not just the bandwagon-ny type. Anyway, yep, I generalized with some things I said concerning "us vs. them." I wasn't talking about what you specifically said or did not say. Ahh, sorry, no. How 'men have the power' is a route I'm not ready to go down (lmaoo, it's actually been a while since I've gone into a feminist analysis like this, but I've not been feeling up to it. I wanna relass my brain, abek) and you don't even believe in any notion of patriarchy or whatever, sooo I wanna leave it at that. It's like a never-ending series of doors that lead to maze rooms with maze rooms in them.

I feel you're playing some kind of devil's advocate, I don't know? Haha. No problem.

I'm tired as well and yunno, concerning all you said about Fifty Shades and the feminist sex podcast and women's choices. Okay, that is dicey and slippery as well, as it is even hard to separate an indoctrination-induced choice from a self-autonomy-induced choice... and I don't want to be 'guilty' of/caught speaking over other women's choices so I'm going to end by saying, if it's what women truly want, we wouldn't have to be brainwashed and groomed and indoctrinated, etc., into wanting some sexual practices. Sure. We 'want' it, alright. The same way women want a lot of other things in the society and consent to some things. Desperation for marriage, acceptance of cheating and abuse, forfeiting their goals for raising a family, sticking with an abuser, allowing their bodies to be used continually as a birthing machine for six to seven to eight kids they can hardly provide for, submission, taking of husband's name. You get. Women do so many things in the society and this hasn't stopped anyone, from feminists to redpillers to Christians from analyzing and shaming and judging and discussing about what women do. So women want all those things, even things that hurt them in the long run the same way they want sexual acts. My point is, as a feminist, I'll talk about them. Things women do and women's situations. From the family to the workplace to ... sex life. And do something about the things I can do something about. Sooo. Why is it okay to scrutinize conservative-leaning choices of women and not the liberal-tilting ones? Don't answer. I'm not just going to look the other way because — a woman choose it. O pari. Nahh.

Wait. Think about this finally -- if Harlequin Romances and Mills and Boons have shaped our expectations about romance and men, you think Fifty Shades will not shape our attitudes to sexuality as well? I mean. We come to expect a perfect prince charming, like literally the way women are in heterosexual relationships is because of the books they've read. Domineering alpha male Adonis that fuc.ks other (dumb, monolithic) women and is heartless, but the shy goody two shoes virgin was able to change him and make him faithful (think of the movie and book After). It's fuvked a lot of women up. If you can understand that socialization, and for pornography as well, but you cannot see the same thing playing out with Fifty Shades, music videos, social media posts and such concerning our expectations about sex from men ... then toooooor. I no know watin to tok again o.

I mean go to wattpad and see. For me, maybe luckily, I dropped most of those views. It was a phase and because I was exposed to counter-books and perspectives as well, but for the majority of women? By the way, I hate the book After and Fifty Shades. With passion. As a woman, person AND as a feminist. For a feminist that likes that, if you checked I'm pretty sure she knows it's not from a feminist stand. Asin, I listen to Megan thee Stallion as well and some rap songs that are about bitches and who.res, etc. I know what I'm doing and I'm aware that is not a feminist decision in that instance. So yeah, I can like some things, but I won't tout or conflate them with being feminist decisions. I'm human. We all are. It is not every single thing we all do that is tantamount to an empowering act that drives the cause of women forward. If I insult a woman, am I being anti-feminist or a human being who's been pushed to the edge? Other people do not see that. So, feminists do not cease to be humans- i.e., flawed, hypocritical, lying, loving, sexual, manipulative, caring, kind, biased people... so when you tell me feminists love the book, lolzzzz, okay fine. I see it as every other thing they do/like in their lives, the same way 'we' even fight amongst ourselves. It's not a feminist thang, it's a human thang. Not all feminists have the same kind/levels of thinking, stages in the journey, etc., etc., etc.

cooooooks:
Full disclosure, pornhub is based in Montreal and is a massive organization. I've met a few people (maybe 2) who actually worked there (not porn stars). These PornHub vidéos that raised controversy were not produced by the company. They were uploaded by individuals.

The site allows people to upload which has been an argument in preventing exploitation. I believe they also require performers to prove their identity before giving them the license to upload. An argument in a more amateurish approach (that I've heard from discussions) is that amateur videos bring people directly to the content, more money for the performers and more 'power' for the mostly female performers who can now provide their 'service' without a studio, director, etc.

On debasement, there are borderline degradation and due to different reasons
e.g: the white guy going to Thailand or some African country, paying girls (and indeed men) a few hundred dollars to produce exclusive content that will make many thousands more is a very common form of exploitation. There have also been some issues about the gay porn but I'm not sure about that and there is little coverage.

Porn is mostly women selling and men buying, that's for sure. Sex work, porn, etc is currently being pushed on young people. With lies. People are being driven into selling themselves under the guise of body positivity and the f word, feminism. Thankfully, I've seen some tik toks of other young ladies calling out this glorification of becoming a sexual object.

On terms like red pill and feminism: people use words however they want. I tend to avoid these 2 terms specifically because they could mean anything. Your feminism (on this issue) is a LOT more prude than a self acclaimed feminist on other social media. Who am I, you, or anyone else, to say who is right and who is wrong. Same goes with red pill talk. Some TRP are more MGTOW while some self acclaimed TRP focus on being pickup artists.

I'd like you to explain how in the market you described: women selling physicality (many forms without any actual sex) to men who have no other option; 'men have the power'? I don't believe I ever said anything about any gender broadly having the 'power' and I have no 'side'. I'm neither buying nor selling sex (no matter how much you ask )

I also reject, out of hand, any notion of 'patriarchy' in the classic feminist sense of the word: men ruling and controlling the world with men being servants. There is no patriarchy and there hasn't been format least a few hundred years globally.

There is a lot of porn as you described already. The amateur porn industry is huge and disperse. This is what onkyfans was used for before covid. People watch this kind of porn: men and women. I will also caution against extrapolating all women's sexual desires. Not all (I'd say not even a minority) want blasé sexual experiences. In direct contradiction to your assertions, Google pegging feminist. You should find a plethora of articles on the subject. The desire for rougher elements like choking, r*pe 'play', etc is also a fascinating topic of research and study which I fear you are alien to. I listened regularly, many years ago, to a 'feminist sex' podcast. The number one problem for ladies was that their men were not rough enough. The classic dilemma was: "I want him to try XYZ, or be harder, rougher, slap me a little, objectify me but don't know how to tell him I want these things". I haven't watched 50 shades of grey and likely never will of my own volition. However, I read the first book. The sex in the book was rough, degrading, etc. I've been informed by friends that the movie is at least as drastic as the book. That movie is loved by women, including feminists. I think your idea of what men and wome want in the bedroom (or kitchen) is incomplete.

Cheers. That was wayyy too long. Let me go and look for money biko.

Magnoliaa:
Yeahh. Lol. It is way too long. Phew. I feel this issue is divided along theoretical vs. practical lines. So they gave autonomy and power and control yada yada yada to women and individuals. Shit still happened, so? In theory, these things always sound alluring and empowering. But the facts are:-
-Women were still exploited
-Pornhub deleted "all" of its website (I hope you get the connotation of 'all')
-Organizations (Mastercard, for example) severed working relationships with them
-They are being investigated
-They were AWARE of such videos and DID NOTHING when the women in question brought it to their notice (I'll try post a proof below).

I'm not going to go all into twisting words, etc., to 'defend' them or give them a way out/cut them some slack. Let them face the wrath of the law. The same thing happened with the Paradise brothel in Germany and the Playboy mansion of Hugh Hefner. On the surface, they were always touted as sex-positive, feminist-friendly, while behind the scenes, they do shit to women, under the cover of the law. "Oh, women have choices, there are regulations and laws to protect them already, so let's move on to the next, shallow feel-good word plays." I mean, that's about it. So yeah I really really understand the arguments and all the pro-arguments. Logically, I can't (yet) disprove them. They make sense. But in REALITY, things are still happening to women in these pseudo-liberal spaces. That Paradise, for instance, was a talking point for some feminists and they idolized it, worshipped it and always dangle it as the eldorado of the ideal sex work company. This brothel had celebrity status and TV segments dedicated to it. Wo. I can't go into all that. Meanwhile, for more than fifteen years or close to nineteen years, the owner was selling and trading women, was involved in so many crimes and guess what? Guy got only five years in jail for the lifetime untold trauma he's caused for thousands of women. I absolutely do not get how women think men suddenly turn to ethical, savvy and respectable business men and angels and saints in the sex industry, when in other facets of society, they treat us like shit. Hefner called women dogs and bitches as well while they lived in deplorable conditions in that 'nirvana' Hollywood mansion and dream of stars - urine-soaked beds, rat-infested rooms, etc. Facts came out after his death. So from Playboy to Paradise to Pornhub, the trend has been consistent. I have no doubt, none whatsoever, that OnlyFans will follow suit. Just give it a few years.

My bad. I figured you were a redpiller? You did tell me that once. I'm sure of it. So I guessed you were one of them, but not just the bandwagon-ny type. Anyway, yep, I generalized with some things I said concerning "us vs. them." I wasn't talking about what you specifically said or did not say. Ahh, sorry, no. How 'men have the power' is a route I'm not ready to go down (lmaoo, it's actually been a while since I've gone into a feminist analysis like this, but I've not been feeling up to it. I wanna relass my brain, abek) and you don't even believe in any notion of patriarchy or whatever, sooo I wanna leave it at that. It's like a never-ending series of doors that lead to maze rooms with maze rooms in them.

I feel you're playing some kind of devil's advocate, I don't know? Haha. No problem.

I'm tired as well and yunno, concerning all you said about Fifty Shades and the feminist sex podcast and women's choices. Okay, that is dicey and slippery as well, as it is even hard to separate an indoctrination-induced choice from a self-autonomy-induced choice... and I don't want to be 'guilty' of/caught speaking over other women's choices so I'm going to end by saying, if it's what women truly want, we wouldn't have to be brainwashed and groomed and indoctrinated, etc., into wanting some sexual practices. Sure. We 'want' it, alright. The same way women want a lot of other things in the society and consent to some things. Desperation for marriage, acceptance of cheating and abuse, forfeiting their goals for raising a family, sticking with an abuser, allowing their bodies to be used continually as a birthing machine for six to seven to eight kids they can hardly provide for, submission, taking of husband's name. You get. Women do so many things in the society and this hasn't stopped anyone, from feminists to redpillers to Christians from analyzing and shaming and judging and discussing about what women do. So women want all those things, even things that hurt them in the long run the same way they want sexual acts. My point is, as a feminist, I'll talk about them. Things women do and women's situations. From the family to the workplace to ... sex life. And do something about the things I can do something about. Sooo. Why is it okay to scrutinize conservative-leaning choices of women and not the liberal-tilting ones? Don't answer. I'm not just going to look the other way because — a woman choose it. O pari. Nahh.

Wait. Think about this finally -- if Harlequin Romances and Mills and Boons have shaped our expectations about romance and men, you think Fifty Shades will not shape our attitudes to sexuality as well? I mean. We come to expect a perfect prince charming, like literally the way women are in heterosexual relationships is because of the books they've read. Domineering alpha male Adonis that fuc.ks other (dumb, monolithic) women and is heartless, but the shy goody two shoes virgin was able to change him and make him faithful (think of the movie and book After). It's fuvked a lot of women up. If you can understand that socialization, and for pornography as well, but you cannot see the same thing playing out with Fifty Shades, music videos, social media posts and such concerning our expectations about sex from men ... then toooooor. I no know watin to tok again o.

I mean go to wattpad and see. For me, maybe luckily, I dropped most of those views. It was a phase and because I was exposed to counter-books and perspectives as well, but for the majority of women? By the way, I hate the book After and Fifty Shades. With passion. As a woman, person AND as a feminist. For a feminist that likes that, if you checked I'm pretty sure she knows it's not from a feminist stand. Asin, I listen to Megan thee Stallion as well and some rap songs that are about bitches and who.res, etc. I know what I'm doing and I'm aware that is not a feminist decision in that instance. So yeah, I can like some things, but I won't tout or conflate them with being feminist decisions. I'm human. We all are. It is not every single thing we all do that is tantamount to an empowering act that drives the cause of women forward. If I insult a woman, am I being anti-feminist or a human being who's been pushed to the edge? Other people do not see that. So, feminists do not cease to be humans- i.e., flawed, hypocritical, lying, loving, sexual, manipulative, caring, kind, biased people... so when you tell me feminists love the book, lolzzzz, okay fine. I see it as every other thing they do/like in their lives, the same way 'we' even fight amongst ourselves. It's not a feminist thang, it's a human thang. Not all feminists have the same kind/levels of thinking, stages in the journey, etc., etc., etc.

Too much long words..nobody go read am

Mtchewwwww

lilvicky68:
Too much long words..nobody go read am

Mtchewwwww

Iffa hear. Gettatttt. It's to you it reads long. You're a lazy reader before.

Magnoliaa:
Iffa hear. Gettatttt. It's to you it reads long. You're a lazy reader before.

Small thing wey you for summarize..you go carry epistle paste for us to stress ourselves with..

lilvicky68:
Small thing wey you for summarize..you go carry epistle paste for us to stress ourselves with..

Toor. LMAO.

So na my epistle even make you carry face laidat? E no bad. E good as e dey different from your usual face/e-face(s) (ah think).

Magnoliaa:
Toor. LMAO.

So na my epistle even make you carry face laidat? E no bad. E good as e dey different from your usual face/e-face(s) (ah think).

Omo..today just calm and long
Abi make I go consume p**n

lilvicky68:
Omo..today just calm and long
Abi make I go consume p**n

Ohhh. Today is even Saturday. I don forget. Everyday be like the same for mah eyes.
You surely don't need my permission for that? And even on this thread with my comments?

Do what you want.

Magnoliaa:
Ohhh. Today is even Saturday. I don forget. Everyday be like the same for mah eyes.
You surely don't need my permission for that? And even on this thread with my comments?

Do what you want.

That means you don't go out na..same thing here..
Everyday is like Saturday to me

lilvicky68:
That means you don't go out na..same thing here..
Everyday is like Saturday to me

Ahhhh, a Lazying Indoors People's Party (LIPP) member of Nairaland chapter; I sight you, sire! Wehdone.

Rozcol:
All Nigerian men have pornographic videos on their phones,even the religious ones are not left out,porn is demonic but these men don't know hence the reason they are all perverts

Just like all women in your generations are prostitutes...

fykes:
When I become governor of my state, it's d first thing I will do. Ban porn, prostitution and nudity in TV from my state. Have a very active state censure board.
Infact, restoring moral codes is one of my cardinal electioneering points.

You cannot even become a governor even in a state of emergency...

Magnoliaa:
Yeahh. Lol. It is way too long. Phew. I feel this issue is divided along theoretical vs. practical lines. So they gave autonomy and power and control yada yada yada to women and individuals. Shit still happened, so? In theory, these things always sound alluring and empowering. But the facts are:-
-Women were still exploited
-Pornhub deleted "all" of its website (I hope you get the connotation of 'all')
-Organizations (Mastercard, for example) severed working relationships with them
-They are being investigated
-They were AWARE of such videos and DID NOTHING when the women in question brought it to their notice (I'll try post a proof below).

I'm not going to go all into twisting words, etc., to 'defend' them or give them a way out/cut them some slack. Let them face the wrath of the law. The same thing happened with the Paradise brothel in Germany and the Playboy mansion of Hugh Hefner. On the surface, they were always touted as sex-positive, feminist-friendly, while behind the scenes, they do shit to women, under the cover of the law. "Oh, women have choices, there are regulations and laws to protect them already, so let's move on to the next, shallow feel-good word plays." I mean, that's about it. So yeah I really really understand the arguments and all the pro-arguments. Logically, I can't (yet) disprove them. They make sense. But in REALITY, things are still happening to women in these pseudo-liberal spaces. That Paradise, for instance, was a talking point for some feminists and they idolized it, worshipped it and always dangle it as the eldorado of the ideal sex work company. This brothel had celebrity status and TV segments dedicated to it. Wo. I can't go into all that. Meanwhile, for more than fifteen years or close to nineteen years, the owner was selling and trading women, was involved in so many crimes and guess what? Guy got only five years in jail for the lifetime untold trauma he's caused for thousands of women. I absolutely do not get how women think men suddenly turn to ethical, savvy and respectable business men and angels and saints in the sex industry, when in other facets of society, they treat us like shit. Hefner called women dogs and bitches as well while they lived in deplorable conditions in that 'nirvana' Hollywood mansion and dream of stars - urine-soaked beds, rat-infested rooms, etc. Facts came out after his death. So from Playboy to Paradise to Pornhub, the trend has been consistent. I have no doubt, none whatsoever, that OnlyFans will follow suit. Just give it a few years.

My bad. I figured you were a redpiller? You did tell me that once. I'm sure of it. So I guessed you were one of them, but not just the bandwagon-ny type. Anyway, yep, I generalized with some things I said concerning "us vs. them." I wasn't talking about what you specifically said or did not say. Ahh, sorry, no. How 'men have the power' is a route I'm not ready to go down (lmaoo, it's actually been a while since I've gone into a feminist analysis like this, but I've not been feeling up to it. I wanna relass my brain, abek) and you don't even believe in any notion of patriarchy or whatever, sooo I wanna leave it at that. It's like a never-ending series of doors that lead to maze rooms with maze rooms in them.

I feel you're playing some kind of devil's advocate, I don't know? Haha. No problem.

I'm tired as well and yunno, concerning all you said about Fifty Shades and the feminist sex podcast and women's choices. Okay, that is dicey and slippery as well, as it is even hard to separate an indoctrination-induced choice from a self-autonomy-induced choice... and I don't want to be 'guilty' of/caught speaking over other women's choices so I'm going to end by saying, if it's what women truly want, we wouldn't have to be brainwashed and groomed and indoctrinated, etc., into wanting some sexual practices. Sure. We 'want' it, alright. The same way women want a lot of other things in the society and consent to some things. Desperation for marriage, acceptance of cheating and abuse, forfeiting their goals for raising a family, sticking with an abuser, allowing their bodies to be used continually as a birthing machine for six to seven to eight kids they can hardly provide for, submission, taking of husband's name. You get. Women do so many things in the society and this hasn't stopped anyone, from feminists to redpillers to Christians from analyzing and shaming and judging and discussing about what women do. So women want all those things, even things that hurt them in the long run the same way they want sexual acts. My point is, as a feminist, I'll talk about them. Things women do and women's situations. From the family to the workplace to ... sex life. And do something about the things I can do something about. Sooo. Why is it okay to scrutinize conservative-leaning choices of women and not the liberal-tilting ones? Don't answer. I'm not just going to look the other way because — a woman choose it. O pari. Nahh.

Wait. Think about this finally -- if Harlequin Romances and Mills and Boons have shaped our expectations about romance and men, you think Fifty Shades will not shape our attitudes to sexuality as well? I mean. We come to expect a perfect prince charming, like literally the way women are in heterosexual relationships is because of the books they've read. Domineering alpha male Adonis that fuc.ks other (dumb, monolithic) women and is heartless, but the shy goody two shoes virgin was able to change him and make him faithful (think of the movie and book After). It's fuvked a lot of women up. If you can understand that socialization, and for pornography as well, but you cannot see the same thing playing out with Fifty Shades, music videos, social media posts and such concerning our expectations about sex from men ... then toooooor. I no know watin to tok again o.

I mean go to wattpad and see. For me, maybe luckily, I dropped most of those views. It was a phase and because I was exposed to counter-books and perspectives as well, but for the majority of women? By the way, I hate the book After and Fifty Shades. With passion. As a woman, person AND as a feminist. For a feminist that likes that, if you checked I'm pretty sure she knows it's not from a feminist stand. Asin, I listen to Megan thee Stallion as well and some rap songs that are about bitches and who.res, etc. I know what I'm doing and I'm aware that is not a feminist decision in that instance. So yeah, I can like some things, but I won't tout or conflate them with being feminist decisions. I'm human. We all are. It is not every single thing we all do that is tantamount to an empowering act that drives the cause of women forward. If I insult a woman, am I being anti-feminist or a human being who's been pushed to the edge? Other people do not see that. So, feminists do not cease to be humans- i.e., flawed, hypocritical, lying, loving, sexual, manipulative, caring, kind, biased people... so when you tell me feminists love the book, lolzzzz, okay fine. I see it as every other thing they do/like in their lives, the same way 'we' even fight amongst ourselves. It's not a feminist thang, it's a human thang. Not all feminists have the same kind/levels of thinking, stages in the journey, etc., etc., etc.

Jisos!
E be like say you and Soludo go the same school abi how come you self come write textbook like this?

Lamanii22:
I am a parent now, I would never show my children porn....

But they will still watch the porn and still do shits outside your home

Yeah sure you can't show them porn, they will surely find that out themselves but can do well in educating them about it ..... Very important cause I don tire to dey hear single this one and that one for Nairaland here.