₦airaland Forum

aribisala0:
not interested

See my signature

khadaffi:
One thing you don't know is that the politicians in this part of the world are clueless and if you expect anything sensible from them then you are both in the same boat. All politicians form an idea from what is being discussed in the streets, social media, etc. They don't have anything new to bring to the table. Quit believing in them. Can you imagine in this day and era in Ekpoma, Edo state, there is no water. No borehole, no nothing like drinkable or bathing water. Lucky Igbinedion said the demonic spirits were the cause, Oshiomhole came and insulted Igbinedion making jest of him, Obaseki is here now and the problem remain unsolved. Anyone who thinks Nigeria is rich should be able to easily tell us where the country can get $89 billion without borrowing.

America has a gdp of $21. trillion (nominal) and a tax to gdp ratio of 24.5. Nigeria has a gdp of about $400 billion dollars. if we were to have a similar Tax to gdp ratio, our government would have a budget of about $100 billion which is higher than the 89 billion you are asking about.

The main issue is that wealth in Nigeria is concentrated in a few hands because of how our economy is structured around the sales of crude oil.
The solution is to task the rich because the vast majority have gotten wealthy through ill gotten means

NOGRUDGES:
80 billion dollars for 2 million prisoners on one hand and 39 billion dollars for 200 million on the other hand doesn't sound like an insult, rather it could be a wake up call.

And Nigerians expect world-class health, education, high speed rail, roads without pothole, perfect security, efficient fire service, and the best of everything from $30bn.

Seems we've all been smoking something strong. And we still think our problem is the ethnicity or religion of the president?
If Obama were to become our president, after 8 years we will abuse him more than Buhari.

butterfly777:
We need an overhauling.

No we need to abuse the president more, and he must not collect taxes or widen the net or collect any loans. He should just make the lives of 200m Nigerians better than that of 2.3m prisoners with one third of the money.

Tianamen1:
America has a gdp of $21. trillion (nominal) and a tax to gdp ratio of 24.5. Nigeria has a gdp of about $400 billion dollars. if we were to have a similar Tax to gdp ratio, our government would have a budget of about $100 billion which is higher than the 89 billion you are asking about.

The main issue is that wealth in Nigeria is concentrated in a few hands because of how our economy is structured around the sales of crude oil.
The solution is to task the rich because the vast majority have gotten wealthy through ill gotten means

TAX has never made a country rich , that is fish tank economic

Powersurge:
I am a data analyst. Hence, I don't respond to emotions. Nigeria...fvck it!

The average cost of feeding an inmate in USA is around $8.6. The minimum wage in USA (as at the last time I checked) was $11-this is daily.

Thus, the govt spends over 78% of her minimum wage on inmates feeding. If we bring other costs into this mix, the value could be as high as $25 to take care of inmates daily.

Conversely, Nigeria spends N450 on inmates feeding daily (on paper). This is 1.5% or 0.005 times the minimum wage.

Bringing it home, the US govt spends $258 or N136, 740 on an inmate monthly. The total Nigeria budget in 2020 is less than N11Tr. If will push it up to 11 trillion, each Nigerian would get N54,140 or $100.26 per year. This is NOT UP TO HALF of what is used to feed a prisoner per month in USA. Yet this is what is available to us per year.

And many Nigerians are waiting for the leader that will spend 54k a year on them and miraculously provide modern housing, infrastructure and healthcare that can rival anyone all over the world.
And he must not collect any more taxes or loans because we can't see what previous ones collected was used for. If he likes he should use his weewee to finance the projects.

Perfectbeing:
Nigeria is a poor country. Know this and know peace

No you got it wrong bro, Nigeria is already rich, only our leaders have eaten most of the 54k that would have achieved far more than over 15m naira spent on each USA prisoner a Year

aribisala0:
Do we send dollars in Nigeria

Explain how to spend 54k per Nigerian every year to provide and maintain all the wonderful things you expect from our national budget.

If you can't achieve all these things for yourself if the 54k is given each to you and your family, how do you expect a politician to achieve those things for you?

History555:
Nigeria is not a poor country, if it was a poor country where do the rulers get the billions of dollars they have been stealing

If I corner 54k of 1m poor Nigerians, all of you will think you'd be living my lifestyle only if I didn't steal. That's fallacious
Reality is we would all be marginally better off than poverty level if funds are evenly distributed.

aribisala0:
You are sooooooo intelligent. Very intelligent contribution.

But you did not answer the question

DO we spend dollars in Nigeria?

Do we change Naira to Dollars before before we buy petrol in Nigeria?
How much is one litre of petrol in America and how much is it it Nigeria

Do we change Naira to Dollars before before we buy beer in Nigeria?
How much is one litre of beer in America and how much is it it Nigeria


Do we change Naira to Dollars before before we visit barber in Nigeria?
How much is a haircut in America and how much is it it Nigeria

Just like in Nigeria there are Shoe shiners in America
Do we change Naira to Dollars before before we visit shoe shiner in Nigeria?
How much is a shoeshine in America and how much is it it Nigeria


For your information in NewYork you could spend anything between $40- 150 on a haircut

According to your logic and calculation
that is anywhere between 20000-75000 Naira is that what people spend on haircuts in Nigeria?

You would be looking to spend $8-12 to drink a pint of beer in New York = 4000 -6000 Naira . Is that what we pay for a bottle of beer in Nigeria?

In New York the Cheapest loaf of bread you will find will start at $1.50 - 750 Naira. Is thatwhat we pay for bread in Nigeria

The reasons why all those things are cheap in Nigeria is because we are a poor country and there are millions of workers who are willing to collect 500 instead of 20,000 to give you a nice hair cut. Maybe only 1000 Nigerians are fine with paying 20000-75000 weekly for haircut. And we have 500k -1m barbers.

Open a restaurant and say minimum price is 50k, you've effectively limited your market to a niche, and you must invest humongous amount to attract such clients. Such funds is not available to 99.9% of Nigerian restauranteurs.

SarkinYarki:
I get you point but our Politicians are better paid than American Politicians even by dollar standard

False, I used to believe that until I researched.
We've been comparing oranges with apples.

Do you know each congressman collects about $1m running cost apart from salary?

I still however think the payment is too high considering the level of poverty.

Ovamboland:
False, I used to believe that until I researched.
We've been comparing oranges with apples.

Do you know each congressman collects about $1m running cost apart from salary?

I still however think the payment is too high considering the level of poverty.

We are are talking of salaries man....A member of House of reps earns more than the US president in salaries ..if we add oversight earnings no congress man can earn like a Nigerian rep

Ovamboland:
The reasons why all those things are cheap in Nigeria is because we are a poor country and there are millions of workers who are willing to collect 500 instead of 20,000 to give you a nice hair cut. Maybe only 1000 Nigerians are fine with paying 20000-75000 weekly for haircut. And we have 500k -1m barbers.

Open a restaurant and say minimum price is 50k, you've effectively limited your market to a niche, and you must invest humongous amount to attract such clients. Such funds is not available to 99.9% of Nigerian restauranteurs.

They are not "cheap" in Nigeria
I did not say they are cheap.
Cheapness is about supply and demand in the context of widespread affordability or not

I think you are a victim of the mental inertia occasioned by the illusion of the exchange rate.
The exchange rate is an abstract thing it has no basis for use in comparing what is going on in two countries

With due respect you do not have a grasp of what the issues are but still have a compulsion to comment


The issue , on this thread is comparison of the budget of prisons versus that of Nigeria


There are so many theoretical approaches


Let us accept your paradigm that things are "cheap" one may argue that the reason for this is that the Nigerian system is more efficient and the American system is less efficient and effectively wasteful. All kinds of arguments or explanations can be put forward. To assert one as the correct one is not intellectual it is just self indulgent egotism

Reality is it is a complex thing

Even within America there is plenty of variation in cost of living

aribisala0:
It is a complex subject , not one for superficial 2 minute l analysis but
the simple fact is that the idea of of comparing prison budget with National budget is foolish

Since we are talking prison why not compare the cost of keeping one prisoner in prison?

Many of the things we expect govt to provide from the budget is purchased from the same market that USA will buy from. Ours might have higher lifecycle cost because we usually don't have local expertise to maintain them. We compare the number of patients to available Cancer machine, salary of health workers to USA that easily spends maybe' 1000 times what we deploy to health.

Tianamen1:
America has a gdp of $21. trillion (nominal) and a tax to gdp ratio of 24.5. Nigeria has a gdp of about $400 billion dollars. if we were to have a similar Tax to gdp ratio, our government would have a budget of about $100 billion which is higher than the 89 billion you are asking about.

The main issue is that wealth in Nigeria is concentrated in a few hands because of how our economy is structured around the sales of crude oil.
The solution is to task the rich because the vast majority have gotten wealthy through ill gotten means

This simple concept of tax to GDP ratio and high level of inequality due to poor tax structure is an extremely difficult concept for most Nigerians to grasp. Just start the conversation among friends and you'd quickly see you're a lone voice.

When you start discussion on low level of taxation, the first pushback you get is that you're trying to tax the poor to death. They hardly understand they're actually protecting the rich who pay little or no tax on humongous earnings.

SarkinYarki:
TAX has never made a country rich , that is fish tank economic

Tax is not a get rich quick scheme or over night success. It's a source of funds for investment in education, infrastructure, healthcare that pays future dividend.

A country that invest too little in the above areas can't grow as fast or compete with the ones investing quickly and heavily in education/research for example.
You can't invest at the rate your GDP truly needs if all you bother to collect is 6% while your African competitor like Egypt and South Africa or even Ghana are collecting and investing 16% - 25%.

Investors will trust the infrastructure improvement plans of those countries than what Nigeria can do with 6%. Once we pay salaries of workers there's little left for critical investments

SarkinYarki:
We are are talking of salaries man....A member of House of reps earns more than the US president in salaries ..if we add oversight earnings no congress man can earn like a Nigerian rep

Talking strictly of salaries can you do a side by side comparison of USA and Nigerian reps salaries?

Do the congressmen conduct oversight functions? Do they get allowances for that or do they travel at their own expense?

I already said I believe the cost of maintenance of our reps is high considering the level of our revenue. However during my research I discovered the total budget for the Kenyan legislature is higher than that of Nigeria for whatever it's worth.

calamity

SarkinYarki:
TAX has never made a country rich , that is fish tank economic

Yet all developed countries have tax to GDP ratios greater than 20 percent and Nigeria with the highest number of people living in extreme poverty has a ratio of 6 percent. If you want Development, vote for a candidate who runs on taxing the rich. See it as a modern day Robin hood.

TAX to GDP is not so simple a concept . In fact it is NOT a concept . It is just a ratio


The issue is the ability to extract Tax(revenue) from that GDP .

A key consideration that is missing is POPULATION


If the population is HIGH as in the case of Nigeria extracting tax is going to be low


A realistic consideration is first GDP /capita which is a good measure of the citizenry to absorb tax.

Tax will either come from individuals or Firms because those are the the two sources of GDP.

Nigeria does not have many firms of significance compared to "developed" countries

Nigeria GDP /capita is about $2000.

Now Nigeria has a GDP of about $500 billion which is very similar to that of Austria difference is Austria has a GDP per capita of about $50000 . based on a population of about 9 million

In short Austria with a population of about 9 million has a similar productivity to Nigeria with 200 million. When you take into account the fact that Austria has no oil and a very significant part of our GDP is from oil it reveals how unproductive we are.
Can we expect people with a productivity of $2000 a year to pay as much tax as those with $50000

The reality is many countries would exempt MOST Nigerians from paying any income tax because of their poverty level incomes

Perfectbeing:
Nigeria is a poor country. Know this and know peace

A poor country where her politicians earn more than those in rich countries. I don't know if I'm to conclude that Nigeria is a paradox, or that Nigeria has always been ruled by March hares.

khadaffi:
This is what many are yet to grasp.

Now let's forget all the bullshit on social media. If you are made the Nigerian president today, where will you get the $89 billion to spend on the budget without borrowing? Let's be real. The country has been sent to the dark ages. Many still don't get this.

Where do the politicians get their jumbo pay from?

aribisala0:
TAX to GDP is not so simple a concept . In fact it is NOT a concept . It is just a ratio


The issue is the ability to extract Tax(revenue) from that GDP .

A key consideration that is missing is POPULATION


If the population is HIGH as in the case of Nigeria extracting tax is going to be low


A realistic consideration is first GDP /capita which is a good measure of the citizenry to absorb tax.

Tax will either come from individuals or Firms because those are the the two sources of GDP.

Nigeria does not have many firms of significance compared to "developed" countries

Nigeria GDP /capita is about $2000.

Now Nigeria has a GDP of about $500 billion which is very similar to that of Austria difference is Austria has a GDP per capita of about $50000 . based on a population of about 9 million

In short Austria with a population of about 9 million has a similar productivity to Nigeria with 200 million. When you take into account the fact that Austria has no oil and a very significant part of our GDP is from oil it reveals how unproductive we are.
Can we expect people with a productivity of $2000 a year to pay as much tax as those with $50000

The reality is many countries would exempt MOST Nigerians from paying any income tax because of their poverty level incomes

A journey of a thousand miles starts with a step.
Property taxes and some form of annual taxes on cars based on the value of the cars would be a good start.

HedwigesMaduro:
Where do the politicians get their jumbo pay from?

Please forget about that fake jumbo pay line. Majority (if not all) of the politicians are thieves. There is a difference between stealing and earning big. From your politicians to your ministers to governors, even president and our local councilors and chairman.

Now let me give you a practical example before you start quoting me unnecessarily. It should have been assumed that as at when Sambo Dasuki was NSA, he was given jumbo pay right? But investigations revealed that the guy stole the money allocated to the defense ministry. This is money that was supposed to be used in equipping the army because of Boko Haram. Now the interesting part is that this money that was stolen was not even Nigeria's money. It was borrowed and approved by the Senate. Only for it to end in a private pocket.

Even your commissioners in the state. For example you wouldn't want to know how much the education commissioner generates illegally from private schools in the southern part of Nigeria. If proper investigation is carried out, you will discover that most of your politicians are living above their pay. Some of them are already admittiuthis error.

Talking about the jumbo pay, politicians are not the only ones involved. It includes PS, VC for universities etc. If you are looking at getting money from reducing people's income, that means you will be reducing a lot of civil servants income. Do you know the type of instability that can cause? The civil servants are the most corrupt institution in Nigeria and if there is a reduction today every body will go to the streets shouting e- cho- be! Many will sit at home insisting the government reverse the policy. Should the government refuse, you are looking at a scenario where some senior doctors, lawyers etc will leave the job without even writing a resignation letter. Good luck with anyone that chooses to toe that part

Tianamen1:
A journey of a thousand miles starts with a step.
Property taxes and some form of annual taxes on cars based on the value of the cars would be a good start.

You seem to have a dogmatic approach almost turning taxation into a new religion

Tax is not a good thing of itself

The fundamental issue is wealth creation not taxation

If you create wealth there is something to tax. Taxing poor people is just wickedness


Wealth creation ultimatly seems to happen best within the framework of the Firm

We do not have a culture of creating firms and so our business are not internationally competitive and rarely outlive their creators

That is what we need to focus on developing. How to create wealth in ou country and stop this idea that we are undertaxed or that tax is some kind of virtue.

Tax happens informally all the time because of poverty. The police tax us , all kinds of uniformed and ununiformed men tax us , Kidnappers tax us, family tax us and so on.

let us think of wealth creation FIRST

Taxation is not a virtue

khadaffi:
Please forget about that fake jumbo pay line. Majority (if not all) of the politicians are thieves. There is a difference between stealing and earning big. From your politicians to your ministers to governors, even president and our local councilors and chairman.

Now let me give you a practical example before you start quoting me unnecessarily. It should have been assumed that as at when Sambo Dasuki was NSA, he was given jumbo pay right? But investigations revealed that the guy stole the money allocated to the defense ministry. This is money that was supposed to be used in equipping the army because of Boko Haram. Now the interesting part is that this money that was stolen was not even Nigeria's money. It was borrowed and approved by the Senate. Only for it to end in a private pocket.

Even your commissioners in the state. For example you wouldn't want to know how much the education commissioner generates illegally from private schools in the southern part of Nigeria. If proper investigation is carried out, you will discover that most of your politicians are living above their pay. Some of them are already admittiuthis error.

Talking about the jumbo pay, politicians are not the only ones involved. It includes PS, VC for universities etc. If you are looking at getting money from reducing people's income, that means you will be reducing a lot of civil servants income. Do you know the type of instability that can cause? The civil servants are the most corrupt institution in Nigeria and if there is a reduction today every body will go to the streets shouting e- cho- be! Many will sit at home insisting the government reverse the policy. Should the government refuse, you are looking at a scenario where some senior doctors, lawyers etc will leave the job without even writing a resignation letter. Good luck with anyone that chooses to toe that part

So all those salaries quoted for senators are actually money stolen by the senators? Including those dodgy ass constituency allowance? Thanks for the heads up.

Aribisala0. Please read this comment and do research. Try to understand the point I am making. The future existence of Nigeria depends on a percentage of Nigerians coming to the same conclusion I and Ovamboland have arrived at.

Ovamboland:
This simple concept of tax to GDP ratio and high level of inequality due to poor tax structure is an extremely difficult concept for most Nigerians to grasp. Just start the conversation among friends and you'd quickly see you're a lone voice.

When you start discussion on low level of taxation, the first pushback you get is that you're trying to tax the poor to death. They hardly understand they're actually protecting the rich who pay little or no tax on humongous earnings.

Tianamen1:
Aribisala0. Please read this comment and do research. Try to understand the point I am making. The future existence of Nigeria depends on a percentage of Nigerians coming to the same conclusion I and Ovamboland have arrived at.

That you hold an opinion strongly does not make it any more real.
Many fanatics hold very strong opinions

Nigeria must create wealth by improving human capital and making its people more productive.

The future existence of Nigeria depends on a productive population
The fellow you mention is another dunce and fanatic that thinks he knows a lot more than he does

aribisala0:
That you hold an opinion strongly does not make it any more real.
Many fanatics hold very strong opinions

Nigeria must create wealth by improving human capital and making its people more productive.

The future existence of Nigeria depends on a productive population
The fellow you mention is another dunce and fanatic that thinks he knows a lot more than he does

To create wealth you need an educated population with the right set of values. We do not have this. If you have studied national cultures, you would know that Nigerians are amongst the most flamboyant people on earth. We do not have a savings culture so there is nothing left to invest. We need reorientation and this cost money.

Warren buffet is rich because the average American is rich. Dangote is rich because he runs a monopolistic approach which caters to the rich and turns to beggars all other Nigerians.


Men with strong ideologies bring about real change. Call me a fanatic all you want

Tianamen1:
To create wealth you need an educated population with the right set of values. We do not have this. If you have studied national cultures, you would know that Nigerians are amongst the most flamboyant people on earth. We do not have a savings culture so there is nothing left to invest. We need reorientation and this cost money.

Warren buffet is rich because the average American is rich. Dangote is rich because he runs a monopolistic approach which caters to the rich and turns to beggars all other Nigerians.


Men with strong ideologies bring about real change. Call me a fanatic all you want

With respect this is not a productive discussion

aribisala0:
With respect this is not a productive discussion

How do you suggest we improve human capital. We do not differ in the problem we are trying to solve, we differ in our approach. If your solution makes sense to me, I would never talk about taxation again.

Ovamboland:
No you got it wrong bro, Nigeria is already rich, only our leaders have eaten most of the 54k that would have achieved far more than over 15m naira spent on each USA prisoner a Year

Even if politicians don't steal money, we are still poor. Our national budget is just $25 billion to 200,000,000 Nigerians. Let's imagine, the true money is $50 billion of which of politicians steals half. $50 billion is a meagre amount of money for a country of our population.

The military budget of the US is over $750 billion yearly. That's times 30 of our whole national budget.