₦airaland Forum

DappaD:
This boy you well so? You sure you know who you’re replying to? Where and when did I quote you that you mentioned me with this?
Well now that you mentioned me, Yes Jesus is God, just like Moses(Exodus 7:1) and just like you and me(Psalm 82:6) but he is not and never will be the Almighty God! Matthew 27:46, John 17:3, 20:17; Revelation 3:12

I love how your own Bible gives u guys away all the time

I think it's time to put an end to this arguement and bury u all once and for all to the glory of Jesus who is God almighty.

I'll use your own perverted scripture the NWT

NWT
Rev 5:13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and underneath the earth+ and on the sea, and all the things in them, saying: “To the One sitting on the throne+ and to the Lamb+ be the blessing and the honor+ and the glory and the might forever and ever.”+ 14 The four living creatures were saying: “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshipped.

Questions that cannot be answered by JW because of their perverted doctrine.

1. Can the JW tell us why is John separates Jesus from every created being ? Isn't Jesus supposed to be part of the created beings worshipping God here according to JW doctrine ?

Pls tell us why !!!!

2. Why is Jesus together with Jehovah receiving the same praise, glory, might, worship, honor that is accorded to Jehovah by every creature that God made.


When you all can answer this...this debate can continue.

Trinitarians in the house let's press them for answers

Chatinent you are summoned.

Come and defend the Jehovah's witnesses faith

freshboi88:
I love how your own Bible gives u guys away all the time
I think it's time to put an end to this arguement and bury u all once and for all to the glory of Jesus who is God almighty.
I'll use your own perverted scripture the NWT
NWT
Rev 5:13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and underneath the earth+ and on the sea, and all the things in them, saying: “To the One sitting on the throne+ and to the Lamb+ be the blessing and the honor+ and the glory and the might forever and ever.”+ 14 The four living creatures were saying: “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshipped.
Questions that cannot be answered by JW because of their perverted doctrine.
1. Can the JW tell us why is John separates Jesus from every created being ? Isn't Jesus supposed to be part of the created beings worshipping God here according to JW doctrine ?
Pls tell us why !!!!
2. Why is Jesus together with Jehovah receiving the same praise, glory, might, worship, honor that is accorded to Jehovah by every creature that God made.
When you all can answer this...this debate can continue.

Trinitarians in the house let's press them for answers

The bolded really amuses me!
UNITY IN DIVERSITY people wants to press people having the same line of thought to answer them!

Well i'll advise you guys to go and worship your God, let the world SEE you as ONE BODY just as you people are seeing JWs as ONE BODY! Matthew 5:13-16 compare to John 17:20-23

MaxInDHouse:
The bolded really amuses me!
UNITY IN DIVERSITY people wants to press people having the same line of thought to answer them!

Well i'll advise you guys to go and worship your God, let the world SEE you as ONE BODY just as you people are seeing JWs as ONE BODY! Matthew 5:13-16 compare to John 17:20-23

First one has started tap dancing and avoiding the question.....

Notice how they will all dodge the question and refuse to provide answer.

Good thing is we already know that's the tactics JW will employ in this case....

Pls answer the question and shame the one who sent u, the devil

freshboi88:
First one has started tap dancing and avoiding the question.....
Notice how they will all dodge the question and refuse to provide answer.
Good thing is we already know that's the tactics JW will employ in this case....
Pls answer the question and shame the one who sent u, the devil

I can't speak for others o but i MAXIMUS am not answerable to you or any trinitarian so what are you going to do?

If you truly want me to answer you then speak with me as an individual but if you're talking about a particular religious group then you too need to mention the name of your own group so that we can both compare what your group teaches to the teachings of the group you're accusing.

I think that's FAIR enough boy!

freshboi88:
First one has started tap dancing and avoiding the question.....

Notice how they will all dodge the question and refuse to provide answer.

Good thing is we already know that's the tactics JW will employ in this case....

Pls answer the question and shame the one who sent u, the devil

O my God
This question is too hard to answer
Even JW pope can't answer this without
Abuse or diverting the topic
Watch as they will quote one chapter and tell you some rambling words

They say Moses is like Jesus
Yet Moses can not raise himself up from the dead
They see where Jesus rose himself up by himself
They see he is the only man without sin in this universe
Yet Satan their father told them Jesus is like Moses
Lol

MaxInDHouse:
I can't speak for others o but i MAXIMUS am not answerable to you or any trinitarian so what are you going to do?

If you truly want me to answer you then speak with me as an individual but if you're talking about a particular religious group then you too need to mention the name of your own group so that we can both compare what your group teaches to the teachings of the group you're accusing.

I think that's FAIR enough boy!

Bla bla bla........Tap dancing trying to deviate.....no way.

Answer the question...if u dnt have an answer hide yourself in shame because your own NWT Bible has called all of u liars, blasphemers and filthy pathetic spiritual dogs of satan

Janosky:
*

Janosky
The one with more knowledge of the Bible I trust you can answer this question

NWT
Rev 5:13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and underneath the earth+ and on the sea, and all the things in them, saying: “To the One sitting on the throne+ and to the Lamb+ be the blessing and the honor+ and the glory and the might forever and ever.”+ 14 The four living creatures were saying: “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshipped.

Questions that cannot be answered by JW because of their perverted doctrine.

1. Can the JW tell us why is John separates Jesus from every created being ? Isn't Jesus supposed to be part of the created beings worshipping God here according to JW doctrine ?

Pls tell us why !!!!

2. Why is Jesus together with Jehovah receiving the same praise, glory, might, worship, honor that is accorded to Jehovah by every creature that God made.

freshboi88:
Bla bla bla........Tap dancing trying to deviate.....no way.
Answer the question...if u dnt have an answer hide yourself in shame because your own NWT Bible has called all of u liars, blasphemers and filthy pathetic spiritual dogs of satan

What exactly are you saying?

MaxInDHouse:
What exactly are you saying?

This one doesn't have the answer. So I'm done with u.....Next person!

Bishopkingsley:
The cult wants to replace Jesus on earth that is why they said he is not God Almighty Satan needs his revenge that why he set up an organization that will be telling people that

Jesus is an angel and holy spirit can not speak or think so you can not receive holy spirit because he is just a force that only Apostles used before which no one can use now

JW members don't even know how this organization has been bending God's word

Bending it to fit organization mindset,doctrines. e. g

Watchtower of November 1,1917, published a year after Russell’s death,
contained an article titled: “A Tribute to the Seventh Messenger.” In part,

it said:
The great drama of the Gospel Age opened with the apostle Paul as the chief messenger, or angel, to the Church. It closes with Pastor Russell as the seventh and last messenger to the Church militant. For the other five epochs of the Church, the Lord provided messengers in the order named;

St. John, Arius, Waldo, Wycliffe and Luther.

Each in his turn bore the message due to be understood during the epoch he represented.

The two most prominent messengers, however, are the first and the last: St. Paul and Pastor Russell......


Can you see where it states.... Pastor Russell is more prominent than JOHN As at then they were still calling them SAINTS. Do that now, you here them classify it as IDOLATRY.

The writings of John and Paul dey Bible, what about the writings of Russell?

Bishopkingsley:
O my God
This question is too hard to answer
Even JW pope can't answer this without
Abuse or diverting the topic
Watch as they will quote one chapter and tell you some rambling words

They say Moses is like Jesus
Yet Moses can not raise himself up from the dead
They see where Jesus rose himself up by himself
They see he is the only man without sin in this universe
Yet Satan their father told them Jesus is like Moses
Lol

Dnt mind them..I have another bombshell waiting for them from their own NWT. Dey will run with their tail in between their legs

MaxInDHouse:
I can't speak for others o but i MAXIMUS am not answerable to you or any trinitarian so what are you going to do?

If you truly want me to answer you then speak with me as an individual but if you're talking about a particular religious group then you too need to mention the name of your own group so that we can both compare what your group teaches to the teachings of the group you're accusing.

I think that's FAIR enough boy!

I can't speak for others o but i MAXIMUS am not answerable to you or any trinitarian so what are you going to do?..... Max


You said "I can't speak for others" those others are the members of the the ONE and ONLY BETTER PERFORMING GROUP doing God's will on earth. Abi u no be group member again having ONE LINE OF THOUGHT?


The bolded really amuses me!
UNITY IN DIVERSITY people wants to press people having the same line of thought to answer them!....... Max

Since its one line of thought you (Max) speaking as individual equally captures what the group believes. Therefore personal invitation or group invitation will provide same outcome. Or will they produce different outcomes?

Janosky:
Daniel 12:1, Douay-Rheims Bible
But at that time shall Michael rise up, the great prince, who standeth for the children of thy people: and a time shall come such as never was from the time that nations began even until that time. And at that time shall thy people be saved, every one that shall be found written in the book"

Daniel 10:13 & Daniel 12:1, 1 John 4:14 which people did Archangel Michael save?

LIENUS of a Bishop wey no know him Bible.

In Chapter 10, Daniel was shown an awe-inspiring vision of the great Being to whom he was praying. We can identify this Being from New Testament references as the Lord Jesus Christ, revealed through an Old Testament theophany -- or appearance of God -- before he became incarnate. In answer to Daniel's request for understanding about the fate of his people he was then given a vision of the centuries. He was shown that Persia was soon to fall under an attack led by Alexander the Great. This was fulfilled in history. Alexander died in 323 B.C., some two hundred years after Daniel's vision. Daniel was then shown the rise of Egypt and Syria, the two warring powers on either side of Palestine, and the battles that would wage back and forth across the Holy Land. He also saw the coming of a "contemptible person" who would be one of the kings of the north, a king of Syria who would defile the temple in Jerusalem and would stop the Jewish offerings. As we have seen, this was fulfilled in history in the person of Antiochus Epiphanes, the mad king of Syria who did defile the temple and aroused the revolt of the people led by the Maccabees.

Then there followed a long leap of time. From the predictions fulfilled around 165 B.C., the angel leaps over the intervening centuries, including the time of the first coming of Christ (Daniel had seen this in other visions), and comes to the great double fulfillment of the vision concerning the defilement of the temple, when another willful king would arise (again from the area of Syria) who, in league with the Western powers, would repeat the blasphemies of Antiochus Epiphanes in the temple. Ultimately he would be destroyed by divine power.

We come now to the opening words of the twelfth chapter, which is still part of the same vision. The vision goes on for three more verses, and then occurs a kind of postlude to the book.

We shall observe the close of the vision verse by verse:

"At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time; but at that time your people shall be delivered, every one whose name shall be found written in the book." (Daniel 12:1 RSV)

"At that time" indicates the same time as the events covered in the latter part of chapter eleven, concerning the willful king, the contemptible person who arises to defile the temple for the last time. When those events begin, Michael (the great prince who stands for Daniel's people, Israel) shall arise. Here Michael is called "the great prince. " In the New Testament he is called an archangel. There are only three references to Michael in the New Testament. One is found in the book of Jude, where we are told that he disputed with the devil over the body of Moses. What that involves no one quite knows, but evidently some problem arose over the resurrection of Moses. Michael was involved because Moses was the leader of God's people, Israel.

Michael is mentioned again in the twelfth chapter of Revelation, where he fights against the devil and his angels when they are cast out of heaven and are confined to earth. This expulsion is what produces the terrible time which Jesus calls "the great tribulation." Satan comes down to earth, knowing that he has but a short time, and his wrath is terrible. Michael is also mentioned in First Thessalonians, Chapter 4, where the Apostle Paul tells us that the Lord Jesus is coming for the church:

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel... (1 Thessalonians 4:16a KJV)

Since the only archangel mentioned in Scripture is Michael, this helps us to know the order of the events of the last times. When the Lord comes for his church, Michael will also stand up to act on behalf of his assigned people, Israel. Many Bible scholars thus understand that when the church is removed from the earth, then Israel will come into the forefront again as a nation under God. God begins then his renewed program of activity through his people, the Jews.

This is also what Daniel saw in his vision. When Michael "stands up" sometime before the great tribulation begins there follows "a time of trouble such as never has been since there was a nation." You can see how fully this agrees with what Jesus said in Matthew 24: "Then shall be great tribulation such as has never been since the beginning of the world until now, no, and never shall be..." (Matthew 24:21 KJV). It will be an unprecedented time of trouble on the earth. It will be both the worst and the last of Israel's times of trouble. Anyone who visits Israel these days cannot help but be impressed with the industriousness of the Jewish nation, the amazing way they have replanted the land, and the hopes of the Jewish people for peace and an opportunity to live their own lives in their own nation. Yet anyone who knows the Bible knows that the greatest time of trouble they have ever faced is still ahead, worse even than their trials under Hitler.

Jeremiah also describes this for us in Chapter 30, Verses 4-7:
These are the words which the Lord spoke concerning Israel and Judah:
"Thus says the Lord:
We have heard a cry of panic,
of terror, and no peace.
Ask now, and see,
can a man bear a child?
Why then do I see every man
with his hands on his loins like a woman in labor? Why has every face turned pale?'
Alas! that day is so great
there is none like it;
it is a time of distress for Jacob (Israel);
yet he shall be saved out of it." (Jeremiah 30:4-7 RSV)

That agrees exactly with what Daniel is told. When Michael stands up there shall be a time of trouble, and yet, "your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name is found written in the book." Throughout this time of distress there will be a remnant of Israel, a persecuted minority (we are used to hearing about such these days) who will be kept safely through the time of peril.

That brings us to Verse 2 of Chapter 12:

"And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Daniel 12:2 RSV)

The Old Testament does not say much about the resurrection of the dead. Though it is a very rare occurrence, the idea is there, and this is one of the few places where it clearly speaks of resurrection. At the time when Michael stands up and the people of Israel and the whole earth go through the time of great tribulation, there will also be a resurrection of the dead.

The New Testament gives us further details. There is a resurrection that will occur when the Lord Jesus comes for his church. "The dead in Christ rise first," Paul tells us (in 1 Thessalonians 4:16b). This is possibly the same resurrection as that in Daniel 12. Or Daniel 12 may refer to another resurrection which will occur at the end of the tribulation. But in either event, it is clearly a selective resurrection.

Not everyone is raised from the dead at this time. The angel tells Daniel, "And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake." Evidently it is a resurrection only of those who are righteous, who know the Lord. We must read this very carefully. The Hebrew words that are translated here, "some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt," ought to be read: "These (who are risen) shall be to everlasting life, and those (the ones who do not arise), shall be to shame and everlasting contempt."

Before the last group is raised there will come a thousand years, as the book of Revelation makes clear. We shall not spend time on these details but simply point this out before we go along. Then, Verse 3:

And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever." (Daniel 12:3 RSV)

These are the last words of the vision. They point out the glory and honor that God has reserved for those who are faithful during this time of trial and tribulation. There will be two kinds: those who are wise (literally, "the teachers," those who teach others), and those who witness, who turn many to righteousness. Because of their faithfulness God will honor them in this way. They shall shine out like the brightness of the firmament, and like the stars forever and ever. That is the end of the vision.

The next words are an admonition to Daniel. The angel tells him:

"But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase." (Daniel 12:4 RSV)

This verse has puzzled many people. They ask, "What does it mean that Daniel was told to seal up the book?" Many have taken this to mean that in some way the book of Daniel is rendered incapable of being understood; that the prophecies given Daniel are couched in such strange forms and weird language that no one can really understand them; the riddle can never be unveiled until we arrive at the actual end of days.

But that is not what it means. As a matter of fact, Daniel is not a difficult book to understand. Much of it is as simple and easy to understand as a child's reading book. It is made up of simple stories.

What this verse means is that these words to Daniel are concerning the book from which he was reading, not the one which he was writing. Now what book is that? We must get back to the start of the vision to understand that. In Chapter 10, Verse 21, the angel appeared to Daniel and said,

"But I will tell you what is inscribed in the book of truth:" (Daniel 10:21 RSV)

Then in Chapter 11, Verse 2, he says,

"And now I will show you the truth." (Daniel 11:2a RSV)

It would appear that the angel had a book in front of him from which he reads the great events contained in the vision; a book which is the symbol of God's foreknowledge of all human events. All that occurs in history is known to God long before it ever takes place, and it is symbolized by the book from which the angel reads to Daniel. He has read to a certain place and now he says, "Daniel, this is all I'm going to read to you. Shut up the words, and seal the book for this is all I will show to you now." He means, "We have come to the end, your work is finished; this is all that will be revealed to you now." So this has nothing to do with the understanding of the book of Daniel. In fact, the words which Daniel had seen in the book were given in order that they might be understood. The angel simply means, "We have come now to the end of the period of revelation to you about these matters."

But the latter part of this verse has also intrigued many.

Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase." (Daniel 12:4b RSV)

Unquestionably the angel is here describing that which will happen until the time of the end is reached. What will occur before then? The angel says, "Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase." That can be taken in two ways:

Some have taken it as a prediction of the present revolution in transportation and knowledge which is so characteristic of our own day. It anticipates this sudden amazing explosion of knowledge that has come in the last century or so. As you know, for thousands of years, methods of transportation were scarcely improved. Then man invented the steam engine and marvel followed upon marvel. The speed of transportation increased until now men are traveling eighteen thousand miles an hour and that is just the beginning. Along with this has come a fantastic increase in general knowledge that has produced our modern technological civilization. Many feel this is what the verse refers to.

Perhaps it does mean that. But I rather think it is much more likely that it refers to an increase in the knowledge of the book of Daniel. Many take it this way because it is in connection with the sealing up of the book that this is said. It would then mean "Many shall run to and fro throughout this vision." It would refer to an exhaustive investigation of the vision. Men shall investigate and carefully scrutinize the prophecies of Daniel, and the knowledge of the book shall increase as people study it through.

But perhaps something further should be said. Oftentimes what appears to be two different interpretations is not a case of either/or, but a case of both/and -- they both are true. It seems likely that that is the case here. There will be many studying the book of Daniel and prophecy in general, and the knowledge of prophecy will increase through the years as we approach the end. But because of that increase of knowledge in prophetic matters, there shall also break out an increase of knowledge in other matters, including transportation and general scientific knowledge.

Janosky read more

That conclusion is not as foolish as it may seem. It can be demonstrated that the knowledge of men in secular matters is directly related to an understanding of the revelation of God. Any student of history knows that after the fifth century of this era, Europe drifted into a period of somnolence, ignorance, darkness, and mental torpor that even secular writers refer to as the "Dark Ages." Strangely enough, that period coincided with the removal of the Scriptures from the understanding of the common people. When the Scriptures were no longer available, men did not know much about life. But about the time of the dawn of the Reformation, even before Luther, but also including him, there came a reawakening that is called "the Renaissance," the rebirth of knowledge. It followed immediately upon the restoration of the Scriptures to the people and the restored knowledge of the Word of God.

Then about the middle of the nineteenth century -- and not until then -- there came a reawakened interest in prophecy. This can be traced very clearly in history. The Reformers did not deal much with prophetic passages; they were concerned about other issues. But about the middle of the nineteenth century, in England and other places, prophetic truth came to light again. Christians began to study predictive passages earnestly, and great conventions were held to propagate prophetic truths. It was also at that time that knowledge began to increase. The vast explosion of modern knowledge broke upon men as a result. I do not know how to prove that, but it is most interesting to note the connection of these things. There are hidden secrets of life that we have not yet begun to understand. One of them is the strange connection within the spirit of man between his knowledge of God and the rest of his life. Here is, perhaps, one very remarkable instance of how that connection has been demonstrated in a most practical way.

In Verses 5-7 we have a question-and-answer period that follows the vision. That is a common procedure in these days. We think we have discovered something new when we follow a lecture with a time for questions and answers. We call it "dialogue," but here it is in the book of Daniel.

Then I Daniel looked, and behold, two others stood, one on this bank of the stream and one on that bank of the stream. And I said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream, "How long shall it be till the end of these wonders?" The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream, raised his right hand and his left hand toward heaven; and I heard him swear by him who lives for ever that it would be for a time, two times, and half a time; and that when the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end all these things would be accomplished. (Daniel 12:5-7 RSV)

Do you remember how the vision began? Daniel saw a man clothed in linen, with a bright countenance, standing by the river. Now at the end he sees two angels with him. He asks the man clothed in linen. "How long will it be until these things are over?" If you have carefully followed the character of the vision. you can understand Daniel's question. It is a time of trouble for Daniel's people such as they have never passed through before. Daniel is troubled by this and he identifies with them, and asks, "How long will it be? How long till the end of these amazing things?" The man clothed in linen (who is the Lord Jesus), raises his right hand to indicate the solemnity of his words as a guarantee. It is much as it was in the days of his flesh when he used to add the words, "Truly, truly I say to you." Here he guarantees it with an upraised hand. "When these things begin," he says, they will run for "a time, two times, and half a time."
We have understood already from Daniel that this means three and a half years. A "time" is a year. When they are finished, the power of the holy people, the Jews, will be shattered. That is very significant. That means that Israel is going to have increased power in world affairs. They will have remarkable power, a power so impressive that the Western nations, the confederacy of the West, shall make a covenant with them. It will be power that will permit them to dominate Middle East affairs. But at the end of this three and a half year period their power will be shattered. They will be broken, defeated, crushed as they have never been before. The end of the week accomplishes the breakup of the power of Israel, and they will be cast back utterly upon the God who loves them.

At this point Daniel interrupts the man clothed in linen, in Verses 8-10:

I heard, but I did not understand. Then I said, "O my lord, what shall be the issue of these things?" He said, "Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end. Many shall purify themselves, and make themselves white, and be refined; but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand; but those who are wise shall understand." (Daniel 12:8-10 RSV)

Daniel wants more information. He says, "Lord, I don't understand what you mean about 'the shattering of the power of the holy people.'" But the man clothed in linen says, "That's all right, Daniel. Remember, there is to be no more revelation to you out of the book. The book is closed; I can't tell you any more." Then he suggests that it will be necessary to study what is already given, and from that there will be a most fascinating result: "Many shall purify themselves, and make themselves white and be refined; but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand."

This is all with reference to the book of Daniel, in which he had written what was revealed. Many shall read it, study it, and search it through, and it will have a very interesting three-fold effect upon them:

First, they will interact with the book. They will purify themselves by reading the cleansing word of God. God's word is always a cleansing agent. Read it and be purified within.

Second, they will act upon the word they read and thus make themselves white, i.e., their outer life will become cleansed, whitened. And the result of that will be, they will be refined. They will become better people. This is always true with the word of God, if men act upon it.

But, he says, there is also another class of persons who shall read and study the book but they will not understand, and they shall do wickedly. The wicked shall do wickedly. Read that very carefully. It does not say that such people are wicked because they do wickedly. That is what we think wicked people are: people who do nasty, wicked things. Because they do nasty things, we say they are wicked people. But that is not what the Bible says. It says the wicked are not wicked because they do wicked things; but they do wicked things because they are already wicked.

What is it, then, to be wicked? It refers to someone who will not listen to God, someone who does not pay attention to him but who thinks he knows it all himself. Someone who, in pigheaded self-sufficiency says, "I don't need you, God." That is a wicked person. The wicked person is one who says, "I can get along without you, God." They are wicked in thought first, and because of that they do wicked things. Their deeds become wicked because their thoughts are already wicked. This is the result, Daniel is told, of studying the book.
Then the last word comes. The man clothed in linen resumes what he is saying to Daniel before his interruption.

"And from the time that the continual burnt offering is taken away, and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he who waits and comes to the thousand three hundred and thirty-five days. But go your way till the end; and you shall rest, and shall stand in your allotted place at the end of the days." (Daniel 12:11-13 RSV)

From the time when the last desecration of the temple takes place, in the middle of the seven year period which constitutes the seventieth week of Daniel, from that time, says the man in linen, there shall be twelve hundred and ninety days. Three and a half years is twelve hundred and sixty days, so this is an additional thirty days beyond that. We are not told what it points to. Perhaps it is something involved in the cleansing of the land after the return of the Lord. Then he says, "Blessed is he who waits and comes to the three hundred and thirty-five days," which would be an additional forty-five days, or seventy-five days altogether, beyond the twelve hundred and sixty days of the great tribulation. All we can do is surmise that this additional period introduces the day of the millennium, the golden age of earth, when God sets up his final kingdom and righteousness shall cover the earth as the waters cover the sea. That will be a blessed time indeed.

But Daniel is told now, "Go your way. You shall rest (that means he will die), but then you shall rise again and stand in your allotted place at the end of the days." The "end of the days" is evidently a description of the whole period we call the millennium, a thousand years, the last great period of time upon the earth. Daniel will be there. He is promised that. He will have a part in it as a resurrected being. He will not be forgotten of God, but will stand in his place at the end of the days. As we look back across the intervening centuries, Daniel is but a dim figure in the history of the past. Yet, so sure is God's word, so certain is his promise, that we can confidently look forward to meeting Daniel some day and finding out the work God gives him to do in the days to come. Just as Peter, James, and John saw Moses and Elijah on the Mount of Transfiguration with the Lord Jesus, so we are given a glimpse here of the work that God has for those who will appear again upon the earth.

Well, that is the close of the book.

freshboi88:
God is God ...human are humans......u no get point

Equality is no longer by nature ?


2 Pet 1:4

" by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises , so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature "

They wont be humans anymore when this promise is fulfilled, they would posses God's Divine nature. Equality in the book of freshboi88 . God and his creations are now equal right ?

livingchrist:
sin was never part of the nature of man, so flesh and blood is just appearance? Lol

Is sin part of the nature of Jesus brothers whom he is to be like in every way ? Yes or no

you have a serious problem. So authority, so God's power and authority is not part of God glory?

Glory does not mean authority, who is your teacher ?

No no no I’m going on that rollercoaster with you again, since you’ve shown how uncouth you are in terms of knowledge. We already agreed earlier on this same thread that we’re following two different kinds of Jesus. As regards John 17:23, you claimed the prayer of your own Jesus was never answered and that’s the reason for your UNITY IN DIVERSITY while I claimed the prayer of my own Jesus was answered which resulted in the oneness in thought and teaching amongst Jehovah’s Witnesses. 1Corinthians 1:10, Ephesians 4:3, Philippians 2:2

Funny enough when the Witnesses quote Scriptures to show that Jesus is completely different from God, the Scriptures are clear, straightforward and definitive. BUT whenever you Trinitarians quote Scriptures in support of your doctrine, the meaning of the Scriptures is always vague.

freshboi88:

I love how your own Bible gives u guys away all the time
I think it's time to put an end to this arguement and bury u all once and for all to the glory of Jesus who is God almighty.
I'll use your own perverted scripture the NWT
NWT
Rev 5:13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and underneath the earth+ and on the sea, and all the things in them, saying: “To the One sitting on the throne+ and to the Lamb+ be the blessing and the honor+ and the glory and the might forever and ever.”+ 14 The four living creatures were saying: “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshipped.
Questions that cannot be answered by JW because of their perverted doctrine.
1. Can the JW tell us why is John separates Jesus from every created being ? Isn't Jesus supposed to be part of the created beings worshipping God here according to JW doctrine ?
Pls tell us why !!!!
2. Why is Jesus together with Jehovah receiving the same praise, glory, might, worship, honor that is accorded to Jehovah by every creature that God made.
When you all can answer this...this debate can continue.
Trinitarians in the house let's press them for answers

freshboi88:

MuMu reasoning.
John 14:23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.
The ability to abide n dwell in multidues at the same time not only shows that u r a liar but u r a deceiver just like your father satan who u work for.
John 14:23 shows u the Omniscient nature of Jesus. Moses, u or I do not posses these qualities.
Only God Almighty does. Jesus is God Almighty

Barristter07:
Equality is no longer by nature ?
2 Pet 1:4
" by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises , so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature "
They wont be humans anymore when this promise is fulfilled, they would posses God's Divine nature. Equality in the book of freshboi88 . God and his creations are now equal right ?

I remember this Scripture in particular used to give that living guy sleepless nights.

DappaD:
No no no I’m going on that rollercoaster with you again, since you’ve shown how uncouth you are in terms of knowledge. We already agreed earlier on this same thread that we’re following two different kinds of Jesus. As regards John 17:23, you claimed the prayer of your own Jesus was never answered and that’s the reason for your UNITY IN DIVERSITY while I claimed the prayer of my own Jesus was answered which resulted in the oneness in thought and teaching amongst Jehovah’s Witnesses. 1Corinthians 1:10, Ephesians 4:3, Philippians 2:2

Funny enough when the Witnesses quote Scriptures to show that Jesus is completely different from God, the Scriptures are clear, straightforward and definitive. BUT whenever you Trinitarians quote Scriptures in support of your doctrine, the meaning of the Scriptures is always vague.

What did I tell u guys they will dodge the question.

I quoted your own transportation

1. Why is Jesus separated from every creature. Is he not supposed to be part of every creature as u guys teach

2. Why does he receive the same glory, honour, praise, worship, blessing that is given to Jehovah. Your own Bible says so.

These are the questions u are meant to answer not tap dancing and trying to deviate.

Can u provide the answers now

I'm not answerable to you or anybody my faith is my own PERSONAL belonging unless you tell me your church then we can share thoughts, apart from that you're just playing a clown

freshboi88:
This one doesn't have the answer. So I'm done with u.....Next person!

freshboi88:
I love how your own Bible gives u guys away all the time
I think it's time to put an end to this arguement and bury u all once and for all to the glory of Jesus who is God almighty.

I'll use your own perverted scripture the NWT

NWT
Rev 5:13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and underneath the earth+ and on the sea, and all the things in them, saying: “To the One sitting on the throne+ and to the Lamb+ be the blessing and the honor+ and the glory and the might forever and ever.”+ 14 The four living creatures were saying: “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshipped.

Questions that cannot be answered by JW because of their perverted doctrine.

1. Can the JW tell us why is John separates Jesus from every created being ? Isn't Jesus supposed to be part of the created beings worshipping God here according to JW doctrine ?

Pls tell us why !!!!

Animals are not recognized as a person, And Jesus was symbolically represented as a Lamb. That is why.

The text said every creature SAYS , this does not include animals, it was a reference to all intelligent creatures in the universe who could praise God. Animals can't talk, And Jesus was represented in that way

To further this point, notice that Jesus was not recognized as a person at Revelation 5:3. Due to the representation

" No one in heaven , on earth, or under the earth could open the scroll or look inside it. "


So the text doesn't mean Jesus was not created. He was not represented as a person in that chapter , this Is why.

That Jesus was created was proved by the fact that nobody is his son not anyone created in his image. He exist in the image of God like us, which means he was created through God to be an intelligent person. And bear the title " Son of God" which is for created persons.

2. Why is Jesus together with Jehovah receiving the same praise, glory, might, worship, honor that is accorded to Jehovah by every creature that God made.
When you all can answer this...this debate can continue.
Trinitarians in the house let's press them for answers

The bolded is not included in verse 13 telling you the point . The 24 Elders Only worship the one who sits on the throne, this was only mention at verse 14. The below is a reference to who the 24 Elders worship

" the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever " Rev 4:10

freshboi88:
Dnt mind them..I have another bombshell waiting for them from their own NWT. Dey will run with their tail in between their legs

Who are THEY?

Who are you?

Your Pastors are out there arguing, insulting, abusing and cursing one another!
So you're deceiving yourselves there's no UNITY IN YOUR DIVERSITY!

freshboi88:
I love how your own Bible gives u guys away all the time

I think it's time to put an end to this arguement and bury u all once and for all to the glory of Jesus who is God almighty.

I'll use your own perverted scripture the NWT

NWT
Rev 5:13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and underneath the earth+ and on the sea, and all the things in them, saying: “To the One sitting on the throne+ and to the Lamb+ be the blessing and the honor+ and the glory and the might forever and ever.”+ 14 The four living creatures were saying: “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshipped.

Questions that cannot be answered by JW because of their perverted doctrine.

1. Can the JW tell us why is John separates Jesus from every created being ? Isn't Jesus supposed to be part of the created beings worshipping God here according to JW doctrine ?

Pls tell us why !!!!

2. Why is Jesus together with Jehovah receiving the same praise, glory, might, worship, honor that is accorded to Jehovah by every creature that God made.


When you all can answer this...this debate can continue.

Trinitarians in the house let's press them for answers

John 20:17
"Jesus saith to her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended. to my Father; but go to my brethren, and say to them, I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God."

#1
According to Jesus Christ, does Jesus worship the God and Father of his brethren?
John 20:17, Why did Jesus & his brethren have the same God and Father?
In other words, why did Freshboi88 and his brothers have the same Father?

#2
According to Jesus Christ @John20:17 & Revelation 3:12 who RECEIVES worship @ Revelation 5:14?

Freshboi88 proven himself disloyal to Jesus because he is telling this public forum that John & Jesus have contradict John 20:17 and Revelation 3:12.


John 20:17 & Revelation 3:12, Jesus says only his God and Father JEHOVAH receives worship.
This boi Trinity robbed your SENSE.

DappaD:
I remember this Scripture in particular used to give that living guy sleepless nights.

Lol. Morning Sir

Kajaard:
Chatinent you are summoned.

Come and defend the Jehovah's witnesses faith

Read Jesus Christ speaking at John 20:17 & Revelation 3:12, only JEHOVAH God receives worship in heaven and earth..
Revelation 5:14 is NOT an exception.
Matthew 4:10, do you recall Jesus instruction?

freshboi88:


<sub>New International Version
“Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

Why did the verse not say to reject u is to reject God ? Because there is no equality between The Father and the disciples
But there is a perfect intercessor in the middle here. Who is fully God and Fully man
Who shares equality with Man in his humanity and equality with God by his very divine nature.
So to answer your question yes....Jesus shares equality with his disciples in his humanity.
Notice his use of the word "But" showing that distinction of his nature.
But to reject me is to reject the Father not when u reject the disciples because they do not share the nature of the one who sent him.
So this actually backtracks on your face as to reject one is to reject the other</sub>

What manner of hogwash is this bayi
Are you implying that the followers are not co-equal with their master anymore? Remember, it's the same rule here
What about after his ascension to heaven?

I'm beginning to think your problem is with understanding English. It's foreign language anyway .
Let's converse in your native language rather. It might ease your understanding.

Because there is no equality between The Father and the disciples

Thessalonians 4:8 — The New International Version (NIV)

Therefore, anyone who rejects this instruction does not reject a human being but God,the very God who gives you his Holy Spirit.

You cannot run anywhere.
God's inspired word said anyone that rejects the authority or instructions of his servants is rejecting him also. It's so because they're working under the guidance of his holyspirit thereby representing him as Jesus his after he received his father holyspirit.

Is it right to say that the apostles should join your trinity league?
Better calm down and let this Jehovah's witnesses teach you. Leave your ego outta this and be humble if you want to leave.
Don't you see how your trinitarians brethren left you to your hopelessness. There's nothing worthwhile in it

@Freshboi88

Barristter07:
Equality is no longer by nature ?


2 Pet 1:4

" by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises , so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature "

They wont be humans anymore when this promise is fulfilled, they would posses God's Divine nature. Equality in the book of freshboi88 . God and his creations are now equal right ?

We are God's creatures so we are like him in certain ways. But we don't share any part of his divine nature right now because we die n what is divine should not die n should not experience corruption.

Now that is what that verse is talking about when the promise is fulfilled we become partakers of a tiny part of that divine nature in the sense that we have overcome death and our glorified bodies will no longer experience corruption.

But does this equate to been fully divine in the sense of been like or equal to God ?

No! God forbid !..... We will only become like angels who do not die n experience corruption.

The angels with this nature are no where like God or equal to God because they share only a tiny fraction of God's being.

This is evident in Paslm 89: 6-7. Notice I'm using your own perverted scripture to refute u.

6 For who in the skies can compare to Jehovah?+
Who among the sons of God+ is like Jehovah?
7 God is held in awe in the council* of holy ones;+
He is grand and awe-inspiring to all who are around him.+

Your own scripture here says no one among the sons of God in the skies can is like Jehovah even doh they share a tiny fraction of his being.

Now here is where I bury u and send u to the pit u came from to wail in agony with your father satan. You perverted imbicilic pathetic spiritual dog of the devil

Heb 1 from your own perverted scripture.

Heb 1: 2 Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of a Son,+ whom he appointed heir of all things,+ and through whom he made the systems of things.*+ 3 He is the reflection of God’s glory+ and the exact representation of his very being,+ and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins,+ he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.+

Now according to your Bible. JW says that Jesus is the exact representation (a carbon copy) of his very being

Now let's look at the meaning of the phrase exact representation.

Exact representation:
Exact means correct in every detail. For example, an exact copy is the same in every detail as the thing it is copied from.

What does this prove:

1. Jesus is not an angel cos none of the sons of God in skies is like God but Jesus is exact copy of God's being in every detail. From A-Z.

So now my question.

1. If Jesus is a created being which mean he is finite, limited.

Now how can a finite creature be the exact representation of the very being of an infinite God ?

Please answer

DappaD:
I remember this Scripture in particular used to give that living guy sleepless nights.

If you mean Living.christ
I remember oo
Doubt if he has recovered from it

freshboi88:
We are God's creatures so we are like him in certain ways. But we don't share any part of his divine nature right now because we die n what is divine should not die n should not experience corruption.

Now that is what that verse is talking about when the promise is fulfilled we become partakers of a tiny part of that divine nature in the sense that we have overcome death and our glorified bodies will no longer experience corruption.

But does this equate to been fully divine in the sense of been like or equal to God ?

No! God forbid !..... We will only become like angels who do not die n experience corruption.

The angels with this nature are no where like God or equal to God because they share only a tiny fraction of God's being.

This is evident in Paslm 89: 6-7. Notice I'm using your own perverted scripture to refute u.

6 For who in the skies can compare to Jehovah?+
Who among the sons of God+ is like Jehovah?
7 God is held in awe in the council* of holy ones;+


He is grand and awe-inspiring to all who are around him.+

Your own scripture here says no one among the sons of God in the skies can is like Jehovah even doh they share a tiny fraction of his being.

Now here is where I bury u and send u to the pit u came from to wail in agony with your father satan. You perverted imbicilic pathetic spiritual dog of the devil

Heb 1 from your own perverted scripture.

Heb 1: 2 Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of a Son,+ whom he appointed heir of all things,+ and through whom he made the systems of things.*+ 3 He is the reflection of God’s glory+ and the exact representation of his very being,+ and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins,+ he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.+

Now according to your Bible. JW says that Jesus is the exact representation (a carbon copy) of his very being

Now let's look at the meaning of the phrase exact representation.

Exact representation:
Exact means correct in every detail. For example, an exact copy is the same in every detail as the thing it is copied from.

What does this prove:

1. Jesus is not an angel cos none of the sons of God in skies is like God but Jesus is exact copy of God's being in every detail. From A-Z.

So now my question.

1. If Jesus is a created being which mean he is finite, limited.

Now how can a finite creature be the exact representation of the very being of an infinite God ?

Please answer

You play yourself right into the net with that Psalms. Own goal

Psalm 89:6,7
6 For who in the skies can compare to Jehovah?+
Who among the sons of God+ is like Jehovah?
7 God is held in awe in the council* of holy ones;+

Jesus is also a Son of God. So can't be compared to Jehovah in anyway despite having his nature. Whatever applies to humans partaking of the Divine nature. Applies to Jesus Christ. They are all Sons of God

And come to think of it. Sons of God are created beings.

DappaD:
I remember this Scripture in particular used to give that living guy sleepless nights.

I have made a meal out of the verse. Nd turn it against him with the truth of that scripture. N now his mouth is wide open with flies going in and out as they please

Barristter07:
Animals are not recognized as a person, And Jesus was symbolically represented as a Lamb. That is why.

The text said every creature SAYS , this does not include animals, it was a reference to all intelligent creatures in the universe who could praise God. Animals can't talk, And Jesus was represented in that way

To further this point, notice that Jesus was not recognized as a person at Revelation 5:3. Due to the representation

" No one in heaven , on earth, or under the earth could open the scroll or look inside it. "


So the text doesn't mean Jesus was not created. He was not represented as a person in that chapter , this Is why.

That Jesus was created was proved by the fact that nobody is his son not anyone created in his image. He exist in the image of God like us, which means he was created through God to be an intelligent person. And bear the title " Son of God" which is for created persons.



The bolded is not included in verse 13 telling you the point . The 24 Elders Only worship the one who sits on the throne, this was only mention at verse 14. The below is a reference to who the 24 Elders worship

" the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever " Rev 4:10

Hahahaha hahahaha....I no fit die for laugh.

So every creature doesn't include animals according Barrister07.....the Bible doesn't say that. Please show me where it says that.


If u can't then answer the question. But this time read it carefully before answering


1. Why is Jesus separated from every creature. Is he not supposed to be part of every creature as u guys teach

2. Why does he receive the same glory, honour, praise, worship, blessing that is given to Jehovah. Your own Bible says so.