NATUREOFPOETRY:
Did the apostles say it to their own glorification

So, you want to ignore what Jesus Christ Himself said to you so you can follow instead what one of His apostles said to you?

Matt.28.19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (NIV)

Were they making disciples for themselves?

NATUREOFPOETRY:
Did the apostles say it to their own glorification

NATUREOFPOETRY:
You said Christ didn't ask us to follow his footsteps or that of his apostles.

We were to just obey him

Jesus Christ asked you to obey His commandments...do as He tells you... live in submission to and obedience of His teachings... that is what anyone who is a follower of Jesus Christ is messy to do.

So, are you looking instead for a way to disobey Jesus Christ, so you can maybe follow instead what you perceive of His apostles?

The main thing that sparked all this, is that, you don't believe in the fact that the Holy Spirit inspires, or as a Christian one that grow by studying the word, right?

NATUREOFPOETRY:
Matt.28.19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (NIV)

Were they making disciples for themselves?

You tell me since you seem focused obeying the servants than the Master in this as well.

NATUREOFPOETRY:
The main thing that sparked all this, is that, you don't believe in the fact that the Holy Spirit inspires, or as a Christian one that grow by studying the word, right?

Where do you have me saying this to you?

You asked how the Holy Spirit was going to inspire... Then you went on to say studying and meditating wasnt necessary... Am I wrong?

Kobojunkie:
Where did I say this?

You can check the conversation from the beginning

NATUREOFPOETRY:
You asked how the Holy Spirit was going to inspire... Then you went on to say studying and meditating wasnt necessary... Am I wrong?

This �

Kobojunkie:
How exactly do you intend for the Holy Spirit to inspire you in this endeavor when Jesus Christ said all you need do is use the understanding you have in order to obtain more?


This is the same lesson from the parable of the 10 talents which teaches that those who use what they have will be given more but those who don't will have even that which they previously had taken from them. - Matthew 25 vs 14 - 30

You will not learn the Truth of God through your Bible studies... no, you can only learn His Truth by putting to use the understanding you have through continual submission to and obedience of His very teachings and commandments.

NATUREOFPOETRY:
You asked how the Holy Spirit was going to inspire... Then you went on to say studying and meditating wasnt necessary... Am I wrong?

I asked how how Holy Spirit is expected to act as inspiration of your bible study which is not according to what Jesus Christ asked you to do, and you took that to mean I don't believe the Spirit of God is also the Spirit of inspiration?

NATUREOFPOETRY:
This �

Did you even bother reading so you comprehend what was said to you?

How can saying

How exactly do you intend for the Holy Spirit to inspire you in this endeavor when Jesus Christ said all you need do is use the understanding you have in order to obtain more?

be taken to mean the one who asks does not believe in the Spirit of inspiration?

I recall asking you earlier how long you have been doing this your Bible study.

NATUREOFPOETRY:
The Holy Spirit hasn't stopped inspiring people just like he did with the men of old that wrote the Bible.
Let's come together and share the inspiration of the Holy Spirit on the word of God, hence, growing together.

Drop your number and name and let me add us to a just created whatsapp group for Biblical study.

I guess you should read that again

Kobojunkie:
Did you even bother reading so you comprehend what was said to you?

How can saying
be taken to mean the one who asks does not believe in the Spirit of inspiration?

I recall asking you earlier how long you have been doing this your Bible study.

If everything needs to depend on is his understanding, then why the promise of the Holy Spirit

John.14.26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. (NIV)

NATUREOFPOETRY:

If everything needs to depend on is his understanding, then why the promise of the Holy Spirit
John.14.26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. (NIV)

The Spirit of God is only promised to those who through continual submission to and obedience of the commandments and teachings of Jesus Christ, have been able to free themselves from bondage to sin and become Sons of God - John 8 vs 32 - 44

He is the Holy Spirit of God and so He can only dwell in vessels which are Holy and acceptable to God Himself. And if you are unwilling to trust and obey Jesus Christ in that which He commands, what makes you think you will ever get to where you can have God Himself as your very own Teacher and counselor?

I will hang my boot here

...and He shall guide you into all truth
...sanctify us with the truth, your word is truth.

But, I will still love you to answer one of the former questions.

How is the understanding of Christ, built?

Kobojunkie:
The Spirit of God is only promised to those who through continual submission to and obedience of the commandments and teachings of Jesus Christ, have been able to free themselves from bondage to sin and become Sons of God - John 8 vs 32 - 44

He is the Holy Spirit of God and so He can only dwell in vessels which are Holy and acceptable to God Himself. And if you are unwilling to trust and obey Jesus Christ in that which He commands, what makes you think you will ever get to where you can have God Himself as your very own Teacher and counselor?

NATUREOFPOETRY:
I will hang my boot here

...and He shall guide you into all truth
...sanctify us with the truth, your word is truth.

But, I will still love you to answer one of the former questions.

How is the understanding of Christ, built?

Mark 4 vs 24, you quoted it yourself!

Even there He told you that you hear Him and you do what you heard Him say. More understanding He then promises you when you do that.

But so far, it seems you care little for what He says or commands as you mind is set on doing instead that which He never asked you to do.

Hmmm... So he never asked me to meditate His word?

Kobojunkie:
Mark 4 vs 24, yu quoted it yourself!

He told you that you hear Him and you do what you heard Him say.

But so far, it seems you care little for what He says or commands as you mind is set on doing instead that which He never asked you to do.

NATUREOFPOETRY:
Hmmm... So he never asked me to meditate His word?

Again....Mark 4 vs 24, you quoted it yourself!

Even there He told you that you hear Him and you do what you heard Him say. More understanding He then promises you when you do that.

But so far, it seems you care little for what He says or commands as you mind is set on doing instead that which He never asked you to do.

So, how do you personally know what he has said

NATUREOFPOETRY:
Hmmm... So he never asked me to meditate His word?

NATUREOFPOETRY:
So, how do you personally know what he has said

What He said is written right there in the Gospels, is it not? You can read using the basic language comprehension skills you have, which I have mentioned several times now, and hear what He has to say and do as He says.

Kobojunkie:
What He said is written right there in the Gospels, is it not? You can read using the basic language comprehension skills you have, which I have mentioned several times now, and hear what He has to say and do as He says.

And so, when someone says they want to read the word of God and get interpretation through the Holy Spirit, the person is wrong?

What of the part that says, "The letter killeth, but the spirit giveth understanding"

NATUREOFPOETRY:
And so, when someone says they want to read the word of God and get interpretation through the Holy Spirit, the person is wrong?

What of the part that says, "The letter killeth, but the spirit giveth understanding"

If you reject the very Words of Jesus Christ to you, of what use is your claim to worship aka serve Him?

Kobojunkie:
What He said is written right there in the Gospels, is it not? You can read using the basic language comprehension skills you have, which I have mentioned several times now, and hear what He has to say and do as He says.

This sounds alot like what the OP is saying.
One can't really understand any piece of writing or information with taking some time to think it through. That's basically one of definitions of the the act " To Study".

So what is really your objection to the OP?
It's kinda hard to really discern your main objection from everything you've written so far.

jamesid29:

This sounds alot like what the OP is saying.
One can't really understand any piece of writing or information with taking some time to think it through. That's basically one of definitions of the the act " To Study".

So what is really your objection to the OP?
It's kinda hard to really discern your main objection from everything you've written so far.

The Op created this thread to study with others the Bible...a futile endeavor since nothing in the way of understanding can be gained by that as Jesus explained to us, using the Parable of the 10 talents - Matthew 25 vs 14 - 30 - that the way to recieve more understanding is to put to use the understanding you already have - Matthew 13 vs 10 - 13 and clearly how to use the understanding one has is to simply do what one has had Him say - Mark 4 vs 24

Kobojunkie:
The Op created this thread to study with others the Bible...a futile endeavor since nothing in the way of understanding can be gained by that as Jesus explained to us, using the Parable of the 10 talents - Matthew 25 vs 14 - 30 - that the way to recieve more understanding is to put to use the understanding you already have - Matthew 13 vs 10 - 13 and clearly how to use the understanding one has is to simply do what one has had Him say - Mark 4 vs 24

Ok, just to be clear, your bone of contention is the idea of studying with others, right?

So it's not the studying that is the problem. It's the coming together with others to study that is the issue. Right?

jamesid29:

Ok, just to be clear, your bone of contention is the idea of studying with others, right?

So it's not the studying that is the problem. It's the coming together with others to study that is the issue. Right?

Well, what he, like many other churchians out there, consider studying is also a major issue.

STUDY

the devotion of time and attention to acquiring knowledge on an academic subject, especially by means of books.

The above is the dictionary meaning of the word study and many take the same approach when supposedly studying the Bible- what they acquire is knowledge of what is written. And knowledge is no different from what even the Pharisees had about God - They lacked understanding

Jesus Christ essential declares to us through His teachings that one does not gain understanding from studying or the acquisition of knowledge but instead by using what one already has an understanding of .

Kobojunkie:
Well, what he, like many other churchians out there, consider studying is also a major issue.

How do they consider studying, that makes it an issue?

The above is the dictionary meaning of the word study

Well that's quite a narrow understanding of what it means to study a subject. I doubt you really believe studying is only done with academic subjects.
Right below where you got that definition (the top link on Google I presume), there are diverse definitions of the word "study" covering a wide range uses. Eg " A detailed investigation and analysis of a subject or situation." "Or give serious thought or consideration to.(something)"
Dictionary.com gives " application of the mind to the acquisition of knowledge, as by reading, investigation, or reflection:" as one of its meaning and Webster's new world dictionary gives " To apply one's mind to attentively; try to learn or understand by reading, thinking, etc." as one of its definitions.

In any case not to get rubbled in sifting through the English language, it's fair to say that to study does imply to " Actively engage one's mind in trying to gain knowledge or understanding of a particular subject matter". Basically to learn something.

and many take the same approach when supposedly studying the Bible- what they acquire is knowledge of what is written. And knowledge is no different from what even the Pharisees had about God - They lacked understanding

How does one understand something without knowing it first and thinking through what one knows?

Jesus Christ essential declares to us through His teachings that one does not gain understanding from studying or the acquisition of knowledge but instead by using what one already has an understanding of .

How does one get this initial understanding, if I may ask?

Again I'm just trying to understand what the real bone of contention really is?

jamesid29:

How do they consider studying, that makes it an issue?
... Basically to learn something.
How does one understand something without knowing it first and thinking through what one knows?
How does one get this initial understanding, if I may ask?
Again I'm just trying to understand what the real bone of contention really is?

Read the following and maybe you will see that Jesus Christ provided the answers to your questions in the passage below...

10 The followers came to Jesus and asked, “Why do you use these stories to teach the people?”

11 Jesus answered, “Only you can know the secret truths about God’s kingdom. Those other people cannot know these secret truths.
12 The people who have some understanding will be given more. And they will have even more than they need. But those who do not have much understanding will lose even the little understanding that they have.
13 This is why I use these stories to teach the people: They see, but they don’t really see. They hear, but they don’t really hear or understand.
14 So they show that what Isaiah said about them is true:
‘You people will listen and listen, but you will not understand. You will look and look, but you will not really see.
15 Yes, the minds of these people are now closed. They have ears, but they don’t listen. They have eyes, but they refuse to see.
If their minds were not closed, they might see with their eyes; they might hear with their ears; they might understand with their minds. Then they might turn back to me and be healed.’
16 But God has blessed you. You understand what you see with your eyes. And you understand what you hear with your ears.
17 I can assure you, many prophets and godly people wanted to see what you now see. But they did not see it. And many prophets and godly people wanted to hear what you now hear. But they did not hear it. - Matthew 13 vs 10 - 17

Another passage which teaches the same lesson is found in the book of Mark...

21 Then Jesus said to them, “You don’t take a lamp and hide it under a bowl or a bed, do you? Of course not. You put it on a lampstand.
22 Everything that is hidden will be made clear. Every secret thing will be made known.
23 You people who hear me, listen!
24 Think carefully about what you are hearing. God will know how much to give you by how much you understand now. But he will give you more than you deserve.
25 The people who have some understanding will receive more. But those who do not have much will lose even the small amount they have.” - Mark 4 vs 21 - 24

Now, as for where the initial understanding is from, Jesus Christ explained that it has already been given to you - Parable of the 10 talents in Matthew 25 vs 14 - 30

It's my understanding is when even that initial understanding is lost from disuse,one becomes like the people described by Isaiah reference by Jesus Christ in Matthew 13 vs 14 - 15 above - they become close-minded, unable to perceive or trust the very Word of God Himself.

Kobojunkie:
Now, as for where the initial understanding is from, Jesus Christ explained that it has already been given to you - Parable of the 10 talents in Matthew 25 vs 14 - 30

It's my understanding is when even that initial understanding is lost from disuse,one becomes like the people described by Isaiah reference by Jesus Christ in Matthew 13 vs 14 - 15 above - they become close-minded, unable to perceive or trust the very Word of God Himself.

Okay, just to be clear, the initial understanding is bestowed supernaturally by God without any prior knowledge or understanding on ones part. Then once one engages with that understanding, subsequent ones will be given without any act of actively engaging one's mind in thinking through what one is reading?

Is that correct?

jamesid29:

Okay, just to be clear, the initial understanding is bestowed supernaturally by God without any prior knowledge or understanding on ones part. Then once one engages with that understanding, subsequent ones will be given without any act of actively engaging one's mind in thinking through what one is reading?

Is that correct?

To your first question, I believe so, and this because Jesus Christ taught us so by way of the parable of the 10 talents in Matthew 25 vs 14 - 30 that it is so. I should add that I confirmed it by my experience as well.

As for your second question, you forget quickly what Jesus Christ pointed out in Matthew 13 vs 14-15 ...

14 So they show that what Isaiah said about them is true:
‘You people will listen and listen, but you will not understand. You will look and look, but you will not really see.
15 Yes, the minds of these people are now closed. They have ears, but they don’t listen. They have eyes, but they refuse to see.

If their minds were not closed, they might see with their eyes; they might hear with their ears; they might understand with their minds. Then they might turn back to me and be healed.’ - Matthew 13 vs 14 - 15

... which is that understanding that we get from Him causes our minds to be opened to even more understanding.

Kobojunkie:
To your first question, I believe so, and this because Jesus Christ taught us so by way of the parable of the 10 talents in Matthew 25 vs 14 - 30 that it is so. I should add that I confirmed it by my experience as well.

Fair enough. But how do you know that this passage about the Talents is infact talking about this "initial deposit of understanding".

As for your second question, you forget quickly what Jesus Christ pointed out in Matthew 13 vs 14-15 ... ... which is that understanding that we get from Him causes our minds to be opened to even more understanding.

Okay. But this doesn't still answer the question though?

Are subsequent understandings just given without any act of actively engaging one's mind in thinking through what one is reading?
Or is it the case that,one gets a better understanding of what one is actively engaging with,when one as already yielded to Christ?

jamesid29:

1. Fair enough. But how do you know that this passage about the Talents is infact talking about this "initial deposit of understanding".

2. Okay. But this doesn't still answer the question though?
Are subsequent understandings just given without any act of actively engaging one's mind in thinking through what one is reading?
Or is it the case that,one gets a better understanding of what one is actively engaging with,when one as already yielded to Christ?

1. Here's an easy one...

29 Everyone who uses what they have will get more. They will have much more than they need. But people who do not use what they have will have everything taken away from them.’ - Matthew 25 vs 29

This same teaching as far as faith, love, giving, Understanding ,etc., - the law in the Kingdom of God.

2. Subsequent understanding will cause your minds eyes to be opened and engaged so you can better hear and see that which He wants you to and be engaged in the way He desires for you to be, not as you used to engage when your mind was formerly closed to Him and His Truth.