₦airaland Forum

Ola17:
Are you by any means an iconoclast?

Ola17:
I’m sure sure they’d say the same of you seeing that you deny the divinity of Jesus Christ and the role Mary play in man’s redemption.

macof:
you people need to learn the difference between “using Idols” and “worshipping idols”
At this point it is no longer a conflict of theology but conflict of English proficiency.

Btw. As long as you have “holy” objects ,or holy persons like your daddy GO you are just like those you call idol worshipers . You would have to tear down the altar in your church or wherever you worship and burn any cross in your home or church. You would have to stop treating your church as “house of God” reserved for religious purposes, stop treating your body as “temple of the lord”, you would have to start seeing your holy book as just pieces of paper.

When you are done what would be left wouldn’t even be able to be called a religion again.
Religions need sacred objects, spaces and sometimes even persons

Even the jews had the ark of covenant, mount zion, mount this mount that, jewish priests had their Ephod cloth and jewish faithfuls had their incense

macof:
What’s this one saying Which graven image of which God of creation
Are you following me around?. What kind of useless joblessness makes a person monitor threads i post in and at the end comment something senseless

MaxInDHouse:
The God of Abraham abhors the use of images in worship of him, that's all!

Olu317:
Stop confusing yourself , Mr. There are image depicting God of sky in Egypt,India etc. It is based on this that study has shown there is a clarify of carved image which serves as God in many culture.

I monitor you? Lmao. Well, I do not have time for such but I had to correct you because you feed the public with incoherent information. Horus has a figur ,so also do Ra before they were merged together at a point in history.

Seriously, you need learn the difference between graven image carved to mean God and deifed carved image such as the black Jesus and his mother.

In all of these that there are images that became a form of worship carved to represent creator from some culture theological angle ,which is different from the account of a legend,whom became deified and thus become a channel to divine contact who are referred as prophets.


Lastly, Common sense is never common because it is rare gift. So learn to be humble without usage of violent word or aggressive vulgar words since millions of people know more than you and you can tap from other resourceful intellectuals.

macof:
another senseless comment.
your obsession with me will only drain you.
please shift

Ola17:
Did you follow his logic at all?

He said ATR adherents aren’t worshiping those images but what they represent. Same way Catholics allegedly don’t worship the numerous idols of Jesus and Mary in their parishes.

Kobojunkie:
ROFLMAO


I am not such. The dictionary definition of Idol worship clearer reveals a lot of religious practices we see these days fall under that. Denying this is refusing to face the truth as we have it.

Ola17:
But there are many places in the Bible where god encouraged the use of such.

macof:
but he does not abhor the use of ark of covenant or mount zion or is it mount horeb, Abraham's people sure love mountains a lot ....reminds me of some studies in yahwehism that revealed Yahweh started out as a God of the mountains in canaanite spirituality

But let me not derail, the issue is there is a difference between "usage" and "worship". How is someone an idol worshipper when they don't worship idols. This is problem with english comprehension.
It's like saying if i use pot to cook, it is the pot itself i am cooking.

Kobojunkie:
Where in the Bible did God encourage His people to use idols in worshipping Him?

Where in the Bible did Jesus Christ suggest it OK to worship Him via the use of other idols, including men?

Ola17:
You wouldn’t want to know.

Kobojunkie:
I most definitely want to know that's why I asked.

Where in the Bible did God encourage His people to use idols in worshipping Him?

Where in the Bible did Jesus Christ suggest it OK to worship Him via the use of other idols, including men?

Ola17:
Same place in the Bible where the Roman Catholic Church and other churches got the idea from

Kobojunkie:
These ideas aren't actually biblical, but are instead of the doctrines and traditions of their church organization/businesses.

Bowing down to images and idols are condemned in scripture. Also, Jesus Christ never asked anyone to kiss crosses or bow to images in His name. Instead His teachings clearly states that the only way to love Him is through continual submission to and obedience of His teachings and commandments - there is no other way.

Ola17:
If you deny being an iconoclast then I’m afraid you are suffering from delusion of grandeur. How can you know more than the people who gave you your religion as you know it?

Kobojunkie:
Oh, so you don't believe in assessing what is in fact written in scripture of God?.

You believe the religion is instead about the worship of men and their doctrines, the very same lies Jesus Christ is written to have warned His followers against listening to?

I don't think I can be considered an iconoclast since I believe in God and His Law - His Word and Truth, Jesus Christ.

Ola17:
Who compiled/composed the so-called scripture?

Kobojunkie:
Scripture was written by men over thousands of years.

Ola17:
You too like circular argumentation.

You said the scripture was written by men thousands of years ago, isn't the Catholic Church that compiled/wrote the Bible as you know it today almost two thousand years ago?

All of a sudden, you know more than an organization that have been in existence for eons? Do you have other documents to support your belief apart from the one handed down to you by the Roman Catholic Church?

Kobojunkie:
Again...Oh, so you don't believe in assessing what is in fact written in scripture of God?.

You believe the religion is instead about the worship of men and their doctrines, the very same lies Jesus Christ is written to have warned His followers against listening to?

The Catholic Church may have compiled the books into a Bible, but the Catholic Church did not and does not write scripture - at least not scripture that is accepted in Judaism and all of Christiandom - maybe only among their own. Scripture exists independent of the Catholic church.

Ola17:
1. The so-called word of God is so vague that ten individuals after reading it will have ten different interpretations depending on their idiosyncrasies.
2. How can you know better than the people who have access to the original manuscripts and chose which books to include in the Bible and which ones to hide?

Kobojunkie:
Oh, so you don't believe in assessing what is in fact written by men in scripture of God?.

You believe the religion is instead about the worship of men and their doctrines, the very same lies Jesus Christ is written by men to have warned His followers against listening to?

I don't think I can be considered an iconoclast since I believe in God and His Law - His Word and Truth, Jesus Christ......as written by scribes

A001:
Our ancestors were never idol worshippers! Look How they used their language to deceive us:

Our ancestors are “Abọriṣa” (They who feed/respect Orisha)”. “I-bọ” (to feed/respect )” this never translate “Worship”

Whitemen called us “Idol worshippers” which should literally translates “Ijọsin ere” - does this make sense to you?

“Idol” according to Merriam-Webster means:
(I) an OBJECT of extreme devotion (II) a representation or symbol of an object of worship.

The above definitions of “Idol” is the same description for what we call “Ere” or “ọmọ langidi”

One should be curious to ask: How does “Idol” mean/translate “Orisha”?

How does “worship” which direct translation is “Ijọsin/Isin” mean “bọ” (which is “Feed” &/or “respect” in English)?

This is the hogwash they fed us to misconstrue the practice of the ancestors and ridicule it.

We were never “IDOL WORSHIPPERS” Our ancestors were craftsmen & Art lovers. They made idols, figurines in the image and depiction of nature, irunmọles, Orisas & predecessors.

They have these icons in their shrines as a point of connection to a respective divinity just as the Abrahamic religionists and other religions have the statues and the pictures of their religious figures in the church, mosques, temple respectively.

#Ase #AfricanSpirituality

Source: https://www./254496028077791/permalink/1781633205364058/

Now, my question is: how true are these claims? I'm coming across them for the first time.

Cc: macof, TAO11 or TAO12, Olu317, Konquest, musicwriter, OtemAtum, et al.

@A001

Thanks for the mention and the deep insights. You're spot on about what you posted.

I'm not an adherent of the Ifa or Yoruba religion but I respect the adherants because of the deep knowledge of karma or the teachings of the spiritual laws of cause and effect.

Did you know that as recent as the 1950s census, adherents of the Ifa faith (Yoruba religion) were MORE than the Christians in the entire Yorubaland? Muslim Yorubas were more than the Ifa adherants as of the 1950s though.

The late 1890s census of Lagos island with a population of not more than 50,000 had the Yoruba religion adherents being more
than the Muslim and Christian natives, and non-natives!

The 1950s census that I first read in that Nigerian history book back in the late 1980s, also showed that on the national level, adherants of the different traditional religions were more than the Christians in especially the Middle Belt.

The Yoruba religion (Ifa) is an international faith in Cuba, Brazil, U.S., UK, Trinidad and Tobago, Venezuela, Columbia, Guyana, etc, with white and black adherants.

The beautiful and iconic names such as Fayemi, Fayose, Fasola, Falana, Falola, Awolowo, Awomolo, Awori, etc, are proofs that the Ifa and Awo played and still plays a defining role in the ascendancy of the Yoruba people.


Even the term Babalawo is the official name for Ifa priests in the Yoruba religion just like we have a reverend father in the Catholic religion or a monk in the Buddhist religion, or a Magi of the Zoroastrian religion of Persia (or Iran) which gave birth to the Pharisaic Judaism via Cyrus the Great of Persian Empire who is called "my King of Kings" in the beginning of the book of Ezra by the so-called prophet Ezra.

"Shah han Shah" written on ancient Persian burnt clay tablets unearthed by archaeologists means "King of Kings!"


Cuba alone has more than 5.000 Babalawos or Ifa priests. The former two-term Vice-Chancelor of Obafemi Awolowo University,
Professor Wande Abimbola is a Babalawo just like other prominent professionals who are Ifa priests. It's criminal defamation for any ignorant Christian or even a Muslim in the media to falsely accuse Babalawos of human sacrifice based on fictional Nigerian movie scripts.

Babalawos are aware of the karmic repercussions of doing evil and teach the purity of thought.

The freedom to practice any legit faith is important instead of some people trying to dubiously claim that only 2 religions exist in Nigeria when I'm aware of at least 10 distinct faiths being practiced by folks in Nigeria.


All the best.

Konquest:
All the best.

A001:
Interesting.

Konquest:
@A001

Thanks for the mention and
the deep insights. You're spot
on about what you posted.
I'm not an adherant of the Ifa or
Yoruba religion but I respect the adherants because of the deep knowledge of karma or the teachings of the spiritual laws
of cause and effect.

Did you know that as recent as
the 1950s census, adherants
of the Ifa faith (Yoruba religion) were MORE than the Christians in the entire Yorubaland? Muslim Yorubas were more than the Ifa adherants as of the 1950s though.
The late 1890s census of Lagos island with a population of not more than 50,000 had the Yoruba religion adherents were more
than the Muslim and Christian natives, and non-natives!

The 1950s census that I first read in that Nigerian history book back in the late 1980s, also showed that on the national level, adherants of the different traditional religions were more than the Christians in especially the Middle Belt.

The Yoruba religion (Ifa) is an international faith in Cuba, Brazil, U.S., UK, Trinidad and Tobago, Venezuela, Columbia, Guyana, etc, with white and black adherants.
The beautiful and iconic names such as Fayemi, Fayose, Fasola,
Falana, Falola, Awolowo, Awomolo, Awori, etc, are proofs that the Ifa and Awo played and still plays a
defining role in the ascendancy
of the Yoruba people.


Even the term Babalawo is the official name for Ifa priests in the
Yoruba religion just like we
have a reverend father in the
Catholic religion or a monk in the
Buddhist religion, or a Magi of
the Zoroastrian religion of Persia
(or Iran) which gave birth to the Pharisaic Judaism via Cyrus the Great of Persian Empire who
is called "my King of Kings" in
the beginning of the book of Ezra by the so-called prophet Ezra.

"Shah han Shah" written on
ancient Persian burnt clay tablets unearthed by archaeologists means "King of Kings!"


Cuba alone has more than 5.000
Babalawos or Ifa priests. The
former two-term Vice-Chancelor
of Obafemi Awolowo University, Professor Wande Abimbola is a Babalawo just other prominent professionals who are Ifa priests.
It's criminal defamation for any ignorant Christian or even a Muslim in the media to falsely accuse Babalawos of human sacrifice based on fictional Nigerian movie scripts.

Babalawos are aware of the karmic repercussions of doing evil and teach the purity of thought.

The freedom to practice any legit
faith is important instead of some people trying to dubiously claim that only 2 religions exist in Nigeria when I'm aware of at least 10 distinct faiths being practiced by folks in Nigeria.


All the best.

MaxInDHouse:
The God of Abraham abhors the use of images in worship of him, that's all!

A001:
Our ancestors were never idol worshippers! Look How they used their language to deceive us:

Our ancestors are “Abọriṣa” (They who feed/respect Orisha)”. “I-bọ” (to feed/respect )” this never translate “Worship”

Whitemen called us “Idol worshippers” which should literally translates “Ijọsin ere” - does this make sense to you?

“Idol” according to Merriam-Webster means:
(I) an OBJECT of extreme devotion (II) a representation or symbol of an object of worship.

The above definitions of “Idol” is the same description for what we call “Ere” or “ọmọ langidi”

One should be curious to ask: How does “Idol” mean/translate “Orisha”?

How does “worship” which direct translation is “Ijọsin/Isin” mean “bọ” (which is “Feed” &/or “respect” in English)?

This is the hogwash they fed us to misconstrue the practice of the ancestors and ridicule it.

We were never “IDOL WORSHIPPERS” Our ancestors were craftsmen & Art lovers. They made idols, figurines in the image and depiction of nature, irunmọles, Orisas & predecessors.

They have these icons in their shrines as a point of connection to a respective divinity just as the Abrahamic religionists and other religions have the statues and the pictures of their religious figures in the church, mosques, temple respectively.

#Ase #AfricanSpirituality

Source: https://www./254496028077791/permalink/1781633205364058/

Now, my question is: how true are these claims? I'm coming across them for the first time.

Cc: macof, TAO11 or TAO12, Olu317, Konquest, musicwriter, OtemAtum, et al.