₦airaland Forum

paxonel:
are there Christians that are not born again, what's the difference?

Yes. In fact most Christians are not born again.

The difference is that the Christian who is not born again is canal. He is ruled by the flesh. He rejoices in iniquity just like everyone else.

The born again Christian has an encounter with the Holy Spirit through the Word of God. He feels bad when he sins. He is not ruled by fleshly desires. He is always wanting to please God. He delights in fellowship, and enjoys studying the word of God. His spirit is alive.

RoyalDiadems:
Stop disturbing yourself. The scriptures say in 1Peter 1:21 that we are born again by the incorruptible Word of God, not by Holy Spirit Baptism. The Spirit of God in the Word of God births us into God's family. We become born of the Spirit by the Word.

Ephesians 1:13 says:

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit.

You were included in Christ when you believed the gospel. You were then sealed with the promised Holy Spirit (Baptisms of the Holy Spirit, also called the Promise of the Father in Acts 1). You are sealed by the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, not born again by it. Here, both 1Peter 1:21 and Ephesians 1:13 are in agreement.

You're mixing it all up Sir.

The Spirit of God worked with all faithful servants of God from Abel till John the baptist but none of them qualified to be in the heavenly realm of God's Kingdom where Jesus and the Born Again Christians will be {Matthew 11:11} so even though God's Holy Spirit works with me while preaching and teaching as a Christian in my neighbourhood but that's totally different from baptism of God's Holy Spirit which never happened to any servant of God before John the baptist!

RoyalDiadems:
Yes. In fact most Christians are not born again.
The difference is that the Christian who is not born again is canal. He is ruled by the flesh. He rejoices in iniquity just like everyone else.

The highlighted is an error!

All of us are subjected to the FLESH that's why even the BORN AGAIN Christians in the first century most times struggle with the FLESH! Romans 7:15-25
Apostle Peter succumb to the FLESH after his baptism Into the spirit! Galatians 2:11-14

The only difference between the BORN AGAIN Christians and Christians like me is their quick adjustable mode and fast adaptation to whatever the spirit says. So while they're in the forefront we follow their footsteps when there is any need to act on what we are all learning! Hebrews 13:7

That's why we need to IDENTIFY the gathering where these people are because even though they are imperfect humans like everyone of us they're the salt preserving us and light that shines upon us! Matthew 5:13-16

MaxInDHouse:
You're mixing it all up Sir.

The Spirit of God worked with all faithful servants of God from Abel till John the baptist but none of them qualified to be in the heavenly realm of God's Kingdom where Jesus and the Born Again Christians will be {Matthew 11:11} so even though God's Holy Spirit works with me while preaching and teaching as a Christian in my neighbourhood but that's totally different from baptism of God's Holy Spirit which never happened to any servant of God before John the baptist!

In Mathew 8:11, While upbraiding the Pharisees, Jesus told us something concerning those who would become born again:

I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.

We would all be in the same place and even dine together according to the scriptures.

MaxInDHouse:
You're mixing it all up Sir.

The Spirit of God worked with all faithful servants of God from Abel till John the baptist but none of them qualified to be in the heavenly realm of God's Kingdom where Jesus and the Born Again Christians will be {Matthew 11:11} so even though God's Holy Spirit works with me while preaching and teaching as a Christian in my neighbourhood but that's totally different from baptism of God's Holy Spirit which never happened to any servant of God before John the baptist!

In Mathew 8:11, While upbraiding the Pharisees, Jesus told us something concerning those who would become born again:

I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.

We would all be in the same place and even dine together according to the scriptures. Those saints of old had salvation just as we do, but they're not baptised in the Holy Spirit.

MaxInDHouse:
The highlighted is an error!

All of us are subjected to the FLESH that's why even the BORN AGAIN Christians in the first century most times struggle with the FLESH! Romans 7:15-25
Apostle Peter succumb to the FLESH after his baptism Into the spirit! Galatians 2:11-14

The only difference between the BORN AGAIN Christians and Christians like me is their quick adjustable mode and fast adaptation to whatever the spirit says. So while they're in the forefront we follow their footsteps when there is any need to act on what we are all learning! Hebrews 13:7

That's why we need to IDENTIFY the gathering where these people are because even though they are imperfect humans like everyone of us they're the salt preserving us and light that shines upon us! Matthew 5:13-16

We are all prone to fleshly desires but are not all ruled by it.

"There's therefore now, no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit." Romans 8:1

Christians who are not born again walk completely after the flesh, being ruled by it. They are in a fallen state.

The born again Christian is not in a continuous attitude of sin or worldliness. He may fall but he rises up again.

The righteous man falleth seven times and riseth up again.

RoyalDiadems:
In Mathew 8:11, While upbraiding the Pharisees, Jesus told us something concerning those who would become born again:
I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.
We would all be in the same place and even dine together according to the scriptures. Those saints of old had salvation just as we do, but they're not baptised in the Holy Spirit.

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will be here on planet earth according to God's promise for them and all other ancient servants of God! Psalms 37:29; Psalms 115:16
So when Jesus talked about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob the Jews knew that it's the promises of God for them that he's talking about.
But Jesus supposed to stay in Jerusalem with his cabinet all trained by him {Isaiah 2:3; 9:7} this is what changed as Jerusalem was condemned {Matthew 21:43; 23:37-38} so he's taking his cabinet to another destination {John 14:1-4} that's why his chosen ones must be BORN not of flesh and blood but by the spirit so they can become like angels! Luke 20:36

So it's God (the Father) that will select these set of people only from among those trained by Jesus {Matthew 20:20-23} that's why faithful servants of God like Abel to John the baptist can't qualified because they never received that training from the Christ himself! Matthew 11:11

RoyalDiadems:
We are all prone to fleshly desires but are not all ruled by it.
"There's therefore now, no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit." Romans 8:1
Christians who are not born again walk completely after the flesh, being ruled by it. They are in a fallen state.
The born again Christian is not in a continuous attitude of sin or worldliness. He may fall but he rises up again.
The righteous man falleth seven times and riseth up again.

Sorry it's either you're a Christian or not.
There is nothing like in a fallen state after one has chosen to live a Christlike life. Of course that's what quantifies a Christian not just being a Churchgoer!

RoyalDiadems:
1. Can you read what you just posted above? You sound very confused.
You were the one saying you believe only what Jesus said and not what others wrote in their epistles.

I asked you that, the 4 gospels where Jesus spoke and acted were not written by Jesus Himself. I'm trying to let you know that if you don't believe in all the writings and sayings that were not made by Jesus, then you must also reject the four gospels because they were not written by Him.

.....

1. I am afraid the confusion is yours, not mine. Matthew 4 vs 4 there speaks of Living according to the Words of of God's mouth, not just the 4 Gospels, so I am not sure where you get that assumption from.

And as I am aware, quoted in scripture are the words of men, the words of even Satan, demons and devils, and also the Word of God - quotes attributed to God Himself, from Genesis to Revelation.

---

Back to the issue at hand....1. I don't entirely understand your question there but I will attempt it anyways. When God created man in Genesis 2 vs 6- 7, God breathed life of a temporal kind into man at that point, the same breath of course was breathed by God into the animals as we are told in Genesis 6 vs 1 - 7

2. There is absolutely no church that stands on the Gospel , Jesus Christ,this since Jesus Christ never commanded any of His followers to build Him monuments. Jesus Christ instead said that His Church, He builds Himself.

Nor did Jesus Christ appoint men as mogs or pastors over His sheep. He said He alone is Teacher, Shepherd, Authority, Master etc., over each and everyone who belongs in His flock - Matthew 23 vs 8 - 10

3. So you don't believe in Him because He did not write you a book or something?

"Man shall not live by bread alone but by everyword that comes out of the Mouth of God" - Matthew 4 vs 4

That is what Jesus Christ decreed leading to Trusting and obeying that which is God's Law and commandments to you, Jesus Christ, the same one who it is written of that God Himself spoke from Heaven commanding that you obey Him.

Kobojunkie:
1. I am afraid the confusion is yours, not mine. Matthew 4 vs 4 there speaks of Living according to the Words of of God's mouth, not just the 4 Gospels, so I am not sure where you get that assumption from.

And as I am aware, quoted in scripture are the words of men, the words of even Satan, demons and devils, and also the Word of God - quotes attributed to God Himself, from Genesis to Revelation.

---

Back to the issue at hand....1. I don't entirely understand your question there but I will attempt it anyways. When God created man in Genesis 2 vs 6- 7, God breathed life of a temporal kind into man at that point, the same breath of course was breathed by God into the animals as we are told in Genesis 6 vs 1 - 7

2. There is absolutely no church that stands on the Gospel , Jesus Christ,this since Jesus Christ never commanded any of His followers to build Him monuments. Jesus Christ instead said that His Church, He builds Himself.

Nor did Jesus Christ appoint men as mogs or pastors over His sheep. He said He alone is Teacher, Shepherd, Authority, Master etc., over each and everyone who belongs in His flock - Matthew 23 vs 8 - 10

3. So you don't believe in Him because He did not write you a book or something?

"Man shall not live by bread alone but by everyword that comes out of the Mouth of God" - Matthew 4 vs 4

That is what Jesus Christ decreed leading to Trusting and obeying that which is God's Law and commandments to you, Jesus Christ, the same one who it is written of that God Himself spoke from Heaven commanding that you obey Him.

Since the scriptures are the words of men according to you. How do you as a person hear the words of God?

MaxInDHouse:
Sorry it's either you're a Christian or not.
There is nothing like in a fallen state after one has chosen to live a Christlike life. Of course that's what quantifies a Christian not just being a Churchgoer!

Yes. By the word Christian, I meant church-goer, because I thought that was your understanding. The general understanding outdear is to call everyone who goes to church a Christian but those of us who have encountered the truth know that they're mere churchgoers it they're not born again.

A Christian is a disciple of Christ who has chosen a Christlike life in the midst of this polluted world.

MaxInDHouse:
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will be here on planet earth according to God's promise for them and all other ancient servants of God! Psalms 37:29; Psalms 115:16
So when Jesus talked about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob the Jews knew that it's the promises of God for them that he's talking about.
But Jesus supposed to stay in Jerusalem with his cabinet all trained by him {Isaiah 2:3; 9:7} this is what changed as Jerusalem was condemned {Matthew 21:43; 23:37-38} so he's taking his cabinet to another destination {John 14:1-4} that's why his chosen ones must be BORN not of flesh and blood but by the spirit so they can become like angels! Luke 20:36

So it's God (the Father) that will select these set of people only from among those trained by Jesus {Matthew 20:20-23} that's why faithful servants of God like Abel to John the baptist can't qualified because they never received that training from the Christ himself! Matthew 11:11

Smiles. How dare you twist the words spoken by the Lord Himself? I choose to believe only the words of the Lord Jesus..

He said to the thief, "today, you will be with me in paradise." He also promised that we would all dine together with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. From my understanding of scripture, all saints would be together in same place. However, the new testament saints would be given higher roles and authority. That's why Jesus said "He that is least in the Kingdom of God is greater than John the Baptist." Meanwhile John the Baptist is greater than all saints before him.

RoyalDiadems:
Yes. By the word Christian, I meant church-goer, because I thought that was your understanding. The general understanding outdear is to call everyone who goes to church a Christian but those of us who have encountered the truth know that they're mere churchgoers it they're not born again.
A Christian is a disciple of Christ who has chosen a Christlike life in the midst of this polluted world.

Then you've gotten it all complicated!
You need to know why Christians in the first century were baptizing their followers. Such a person must accept all the teachings of Jesus Christ and prepared to live by the utterances of Jesus if not the Christians won't pray with such a person {John 17:8-9} that's what Jesus taught them. It's after they've confirmed that an individual is ready to live by Christ's teachings that they will baptize him/her. Matthew 28:19-20
Any baptized member who refuses to live by his baptism will be DISFELLOWSHIPED {1Corinthians 5:9-13} but unbaptized individuals associating them are referred to as interested persons (not Christians) because they've not decided to live by the law of the Christ! Galatians 6:2

But BORN AGAIN Christians are those who were chosen directly by God Himself even Jesus has no say here so nobody can choose to be a BORN AGAIN all what you can do is to be a Christian and live by the law of Christ but as for burn again only God choose who will rule with His son! Matthew 20:20-23

RoyalDiadems:
Smiles. How dare you twist the words spoken by the Lord Himself? I choose to believe only the words of the Lord Jesus..

He said to the thief, "today, you will be with me in paradise." He also promised that we would all dine together with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. From my understanding of scripture, all saints would be together in same place. However, the new testament saints would be given higher roles and authority. That's why Jesus said "He that is least in the Kingdom of God is greater than John the Baptist." Meanwhile John the Baptist is greater than all saints before him.

Did Jesus go anywhere within the next three days after his death?

Well the answer is NO!
He remained in his grave for the next three days {Act 2:27; 13:35} until his father and God remembered him for his Godly devotion! Hebrews 5:7

So the correct interpretation of Luke 23:43 say "i promise you today, you will be with me in Paradise"

MaxInDHouse:
Did Jesus go anywhere within the next three days after his death?

Well the answer is NO!
He remained in his grave for the next three days {Act 2:27; 13:35} until his father and God remembered him for his Godly devotion! Hebrews 5:7

So the correct interpretation of Luke 23:43 say "i promise you today, you will be with me in Paradise"

His body was in the grave for 3 days but obviously, not His Spirit. During that time in the grave, the scriptures say:

"...he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;"

His Spirit preached to other spirits that were imprisoned in Hades.

Now, we can never tell if He was in any other place other than Hades but one thing we know: He keeps His promises.

That promise He made "Today, thou shalt be with me in paradise." Shall not fail. He must surely have fulfilled that promise same day.

MaxInDHouse:
Then you've gotten it all complicated!
You need to know why Christians in the first century were baptizing their followers. Such a person must accept all the teachings of Jesus Christ and prepared to live by the utterances of Jesus if not the Christians won't pray with such a person {John 17:8-9} that's what Jesus taught them. It's after they've confirmed that an individual is ready to live by Christ's teachings that they will baptize him/her. Matthew 28:19-20
Any baptized member who refuses to live by his baptism will be DISFELLOWSHIPED {1Corinthians 5:9-13} but unbaptized individuals associating them are referred to as interested persons (not Christians) because they've not decided to live by the law of the Christ! Galatians 6:2

But BORN AGAIN Christians are those who were chosen directly by Godo Himself even Jesus has no say here so nobody can choose to be a BORN AGAIN all what you can do is to be a Christian and live by the law of Christ but as for burn again only God choose who will rule with His son! Matthew 20:20-23

Read my post again. We're on the same page.

RoyalDiadems:
His body was in the grave for 3 days but obviously, not His Spirit. During that time in the grave, the scriptures say:
"...he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;"
His Spirit preached to other spirits that were imprisoned in Hades.
Now, we can never tell if He was in any other place other than Hades but one thing we know: He keeps His promises.
That promise He made "Today, thou shalt be with me in paradise." Shall not fail. He must surely have fulfilled that promise same day.

So his spirit was not in the grave, shey?

OK what part of that thief went with him, soul, body or spirit?

RoyalDiadems:
Read my post again. We're on the same page.

Well if you say so!

MaxInDHouse:
So his spirit was not in the grave, shey?

OK what part of that thief went with him, soul, body or spirit?

Lol. Are you this ignorant?

Spirits don't reside in graves my brother. Only the body returns to dust.

Don't believe what I say, believe the Bible. I gave you scriptural references for my position.

RoyalDiadems:
Lol. Are you this ignorant?
Spirits don't reside in graves my brother. Only the body returns to dust.
Don't believe what I say, believe the Bible. I gave you scriptural references for my position.

Good!
If it's the body that remains in the grave while the spirit is out, then which part of Jesus resurrected after three days, is it body, soul or spirit? Hebrews 5:7
According to Jesus all those in the grave will resurrect in the last day {John 5:28-29} so what happened to their spirit that's already in Paradise like the thief's?
Which part of a man will be judged, the body, the spirit or the soul?

MaxInDHouse:
Good!
If it's the body that remains in the grave while the spirit is out, then which part of Jesus resurrected after three days, is it body, soul or spirit? Hebrews 5:7
According to Jesus all those in the grave will resurrect in the last day {John 5:28-29} so what happened to their spirit that's already in Paradise like the thief's?
Which part of a man will be judged, the body, the spirit or the soul?

The Lord Jesus Christ resurrected with His physical body. The Spirit returned into the body. Just like the resurrections He worked during His earthly ministry.

The spiritual components of man would be judged - the soul housed by the spirit. The body is for the grave.

The spirits of just men in paradise would return into a celestial body at the resurrection. Please study the whole chapter of 1Cor. 15.

1 Cor. 15:44 says:
"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

Don't be deceived. God would give the spirit a spiritual body that can no longer die during the resurrection.

Jude 1:14

"Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints."

The Word 'cometh' suggests that they've been together and therefore will be coming together. But as scripture interprets scripture, we understand that "the dead in Christ shall rise first..
and we shall all meet the Lord in the sky." I do not see the old testament saints in this ressurection. Those who resurrect are 'the dead in Christ' only.
The old testament saints resurrected when Christ arose:

Mathew 27:52-53

"...and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many."

Meanwhile, while upbraiding the saduccees for their error. Jesus said Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are alive because when you say God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, you're referring to the God of the living and not the God of the dead.

Now, there's evidence that new testament saints are currently active and alive.

John the writer of Revelation had many encounters with such saints on the island of Patmos. Thinking they're angels, he nearly worshipped one of them in the end of his visions in Revelation 22:9:

"But he said, “No, don’t worship me. I am a servant of God, just like you and your brothers the prophets, as well as all who obey what is written in this book. Worship only God."

[quote author=RoyalDiadems post=112513787][/quote]

Let me ask you these questions. The disciples who walked with the Lord Jesus, who cast out devils in Luke 9 and 10, and who gathered in the upper room to fast and seek the face of the Lord in expectation of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, were they born again?

They weren't born again that's why they needed to be baptized by the holy spirit cos it's the holy spirit that does the work giving birth to spiritual life and for them to enter the kingdom of God in heaven.

The malefactor on the right hand of Jesus on Calvary, whom Jesus promised, 'Today, you shall be with me in paradise." Was he born again?

Did Jesus promise him a life in heaven or the kingdom of God? No.
What Jesus meant was that he would be raised in the future and live on the New earth.

I maintain the position of the scriptures that a man is saved by the word of faith and empowered by the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Many who are not baptised in the Holy Spirit would make heaven as the malefactor did.

Can the thief enter God's Kingdom? No!
Why?
Cos he wasn't born of water and the spirit (i.e he wasn't born again). It's the holy spirit that gives birth to spiritual life.

Only some few population of the saints will rule/are ruling in heaven with Jesus Christ the king of kings

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is a separate experience from being born again

According to Jesus, it is the baptism of the holy spirit that makes one born again.

The disciples were born again before the day of Pentecost. The European Eunuch to whom Philip preached was also born again though he was not baptised in the Holy Spirit.

Really?
The Ethiopian eunuch didn't even understand the scriptures before Philip came to him. How could he believe and get saved?
The disciples weren't born again nor was the eunuch.
The disciples eventually got born again but the eunuch just remained saved cos he didn't receive the holy spirit. He was just baptized by water. There's no way he could enter God's Kingdom. But he'll sure be raised in the future when Jesus comes the second time and live forever on earth.

The scriptures testified that he went home rejoicing. That's the joy of salvation.
If you still hold a contrary opinion, then answer my two questions above.

Joy of salvation not joy of getting born again.
I already I think.

You ought to understand that the Word of God is Spirit. John 1 says, it's God. John 6:63 says "it's Spirit and life." That's what gives it the ability to birth a new creature in Christ.

Without believing the living word of God, there's no way you could become saved and born again.

cornelboy:
They weren't born again that's why they needed to be baptized by the holy spirit cos it's the holy spirit that does the work giving birth to spiritual life and for them to enter the kingdom of God in heaven.


Did Jesus promise him a life in heaven or the kingdom of God? No.
What Jesus meant was that he would be raised in the future and live on the New earth.



Can the thief enter God's Kingdom? No!
Why?
Cos he wasn't born of water and the spirit (i.e he wasn't born again). It's the holy spirit that gives birth to spiritual life.

Only some few population of the saints will rule/are ruling in heaven with Jesus Christ the king of kings

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is for power, not for being born again. In Acts 1, Jesus clearly told His disciples "Tarry ye in Jerusalem until ye be endowed with power (not until ye be born again) from on high."

The Holy Spirit begins His work of rebirth right from the time you receive the gospel message and believe. You have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is more than the Holy Spirit dwelling in you, it is you dwelling in the Holy Spirit. You are baptised, dipped or immersed into the Holy Spirit.

That's why Acts 1:8 says "and ye shall receive power (not and ye shall be born again) after the Holy Ghost is COME UPON (not come into) you.

You must be able to differentiate these two glorious events in the life of a believer.

RoyalDiadems:
The baptism of the Holy Spirit is for power, not for being born again. In Acts 1, Jesus clearly told His disciples "Tarry ye in Jerusalem until ye be endowed with power (not until ye be born again) from on high."
The Holy Spirit begins His work of rebirth right from the time you receive the gospel message and believe. You have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is more than the Holy Spirit dwelling in you, it is you dwelling in the Holy Spirit. You are baptised, dipped or immersed into the Holy Spirit.
That's why Acts 1:8 says "and ye shall receive power (not and ye shall be born again) after the Holy Ghost is COME UPON (not come into) you.
You must be able to differentiate these two glorious events in the life of a believer.

Lol. Now your saying the holy spirit automatically comes to someone for the rebirth. Pls where'd you got that from?
Did the disciples got the holy spirit before the day of Pentecost?

Is the function of the holy spirit only to empower someone? Cos it's also the holy spirit that gives birth to spiritual life. It has other functions.

I mistakenly pressed submit without finishing my response, you can check it out again.

RoyalDiadems:
The Lord Jesus Christ resurrected with His physical body. The Spirit returned into the body. Just like the resurrections He worked during His earthly ministry.
The spiritual components of man would be judged - the soul housed by the spirit. The body is for the grave.
The spirits of just men in paradise would return into a celestial body at the resurrection. Please study the whole chapter of 1Cor. 15.
1 Cor. 15:44 says:
"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."
Don't be deceived. God would give the spirit a spiritual body that can no longer die during the resurrection.
Jude 1:14
"Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints."
The Word 'cometh' suggests that they've been together and therefore will be coming together. But as scripture interprets scripture, we understand that "the dead in Christ shall rise first..
and we shall all meet the Lord in the sky." I do not see the old testament saints in this ressurection. Those who resurrect are 'the dead in Christ' only.
The old testament saints resurrected when Christ arose:
Mathew 27:52-53
"...and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many."
Meanwhile, while upbraiding the saduccees for their error. Jesus said Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are alive because when you say God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, you're referring to the God of the living and not the God of the dead.
Now, there's evidence that new testament saints are currently active and alive.
John the writer of Revelation had many encounters with such saints on the island of Patmos. Thinking they're angels, he nearly worshipped one of them in the end of his visions in Revelation 22:9:
"But he said, “No, don’t worship me. I am a servant of God, just like you and your brothers the prophets, as well as all who obey what is written in this book. Worship only God."

So they're not in their graves then awaiting a resurrection, they're somewhere else waiting to come back into their graves again so that they can resurrect a second or first time, shey?

Jesus said:

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come out; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5:28-29

Please the highlighted in red.
Which part will hear his voice, the spirit or body?

Job said:

O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands. Job 14:13-15

Job believe that he will wait in his grave!


Martha (Lazarus's sister) said to Jesus:

I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. John 11:24

So where was the spirit of Lazarus before Jesus brought him back to life so that Pharisees were plotting to kill him again? John 12:10

MaxInDHouse:
So they're not in their graves then awaiting a resurrection, they're somewhere else waiting to come back into their graves again so that they can resurrect a second or first time, shey?

Jesus said:

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come out; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5:28-29

Please the highlighted in red.
Which part will hear his voice, the spirit or body?

Job said:

O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands. Job 14:13-15

Job believe that he will wait in his grave!


Martha (Lazarus's sister) said to Jesus:

I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. John 11:24

So where was the spirit of Lazarus before Jesus brought him back to life so that Pharisees were plotting to kill him again? John 12:10

In the case of Lazarus, I want you to know that the spirits of dead men according to Jewish tradition, remain on earth for 40days before ascending to eternity. I'm not sure of this, but I know that the spirit could be recalled to re-inhabit the body from wherever it may be.

Now, I have shown you what I know and believe according to scriptures. The scriptures never told us explicitly about these things. We're drawing inferences from various verses or scripture.

Whatever may be the destination of spirits after death shouldn't be a matter of concern to us. Whatever you believe about life after death does not have any impact on your eternity. Since you have been moulded to think about this topic in the way you do, I know that there is no amount of scripture references that can change your perspective. So, hold on to what you believe, I'll hold on to mine.

We're not expected to know everything about everything while on this earthly plane.

"The secret things belong to God, but the things that are revealed are for us and for our children." Deut. 29:29.

I'll also hold on to what I believe except the Lord reveals otherwise.

The Almighty God would help us through His Holy Spirit to be counted worthy of eternity with Christ and His saints in Jesus name.

cornelboy:
They weren't born again that's why they needed to be baptized by the holy spirit cos it's the holy spirit that does the work giving birth to spiritual life and for them to enter the kingdom of God in heaven.


Did Jesus promise him a life in heaven or the kingdom of God? No.
What Jesus meant was that he would be raised in the future and live on the New earth.



Can the thief enter God's Kingdom? No!
Why?
Cos he wasn't born of water and the spirit (i.e he wasn't born again). It's the holy spirit that gives birth to spiritual life.

Only some few population of the saints will rule/are ruling in heaven with Jesus Christ the king of kings


According to Jesus, it is the baptism of the holy spirit that makes one born again.


Really?
The Ethiopian eunuch didn't even understand the scriptures before Philip came to him. How could he believe and get saved?
The disciples weren't born again nor was the eunuch.
The disciples eventually got born again but the eunuch just remained saved cos he didn't receive the holy spirit. He was just baptized by water. There's no way he could enter God's Kingdom. But he'll sure be raised in the future when Jesus comes the second time and live forever on earth.


Joy of salvation not joy of getting born again.
I already I think.


Without believing the living word of God, there's no way you could become saved and born again.

It seems you're a baby Christian. To be born again is to be saved. There's no separating between the two.

To be baptised in the Holy Spirit is to be endued with power to walk the earth like Jesus did. The Lord Jesus never said the baptism of the Holy Spirit makes one born again, instead He said it fills one with power - Acts 1:8.

If you're not born again, you cannot be baptised in the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit Baptism is only for the saved.

cornelboy:
They weren't born again that's why they needed to be baptized by the holy spirit cos it's the holy spirit that does the work giving birth to spiritual life and for them to enter the kingdom of God in heaven.


Did Jesus promise him a life in heaven or the kingdom of God? No.
What Jesus meant was that he would be raised in the future and live on the New earth.



Can the thief enter God's Kingdom? No!
Why?
Cos he wasn't born of water and the spirit (i.e he wasn't born again). It's the holy spirit that gives birth to spiritual life.

Only some few population of the saints will rule/are ruling in heaven with Jesus Christ the king of kings


According to Jesus, it is the baptism of the holy spirit that makes one born again.


Really?
The Ethiopian eunuch didn't even understand the scriptures before Philip came to him. How could he believe and get saved?
The disciples weren't born again nor was the eunuch.
The disciples eventually got born again but the eunuch just remained saved cos he didn't receive the holy spirit. He was just baptized by water. There's no way he could enter God's Kingdom. But he'll sure be raised in the future when Jesus comes the second time and live forever on earth.


Joy of salvation not joy of getting born again.
I already I think.


Without believing the living word of God, there's no way you could become saved and born again.

God's kingdom is within us. It's here on Earth - Luke 21:17. Jesus promised Paradise to the thief - that's the kingdom of heaven.

cornelboy:
Lol. Now your saying the holy spirit automatically comes to someone for the rebirth. Pls where'd you got that from?
Did the disciples got the holy spirit before the day of Pentecost?

Is the function of the holy spirit only to empower someone? Cos it's also the holy spirit that gives birth to spiritual life. It has other functions.

I mistakenly pressed submit without finishing my response, you can check it out again.

Perhaps you didn't read me well enough.

You hear, you believe, and confess Christ as Lord, then, you're saved. You're born again. The Holy Spirit comes to dwell in you.

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit comes by the laying on of hands. It is a promise of God to those who are saved. It you're saved, I can lay hands on you to receive the baptism. But if you're not born again, that is not saved, you have no portion in these things.

cornelboy:
They weren't born again that's why they needed to be baptized by the holy spirit cos it's the holy spirit that does the work giving birth to spiritual life and for them to enter the kingdom of God in heaven.


Did Jesus promise him a life in heaven or the kingdom of God? No.
What Jesus meant was that he would be raised in the future and live on the New earth.



Can the thief enter God's Kingdom? No!
Why?
Cos he wasn't born of water and the spirit (i.e he wasn't born again). It's the holy spirit that gives birth to spiritual life.

Only some few population of the saints will rule/are ruling in heaven with Jesus Christ the king of kings


According to Jesus, it is the baptism of the holy spirit that makes one born again.


Really?
The Ethiopian eunuch didn't even understand the scriptures before Philip came to him. How could he believe and get saved?
The disciples weren't born again nor was the eunuch.
The disciples eventually got born again but the eunuch just remained saved cos he didn't receive the holy spirit. He was just baptized by water. There's no way he could enter God's Kingdom. But he'll sure be raised in the future when Jesus comes the second time and live forever on earth.


Joy of salvation not joy of getting born again.
I already I think.


Without believing the living word of God, there's no way you could become saved and born again.

It is heretic to say that the disciples weren't born again. To be born again is to be saved. You're saying they weren't saved. That's heresy.

RoyalDiadems:
It is heretic to say that the disciples weren't born again. To be born again is to be saved. You're saying they weren't saved. That's heresy.

Lol. The 120 became born again after getting baptized at the upper room. They were already saved because they've believed.

Only the saved (those that have believed according to Roman 10:9&10) are qualified to be born again i.e born of the Spirit through the holy spirit.

I don't what heresy you were talking about

RoyalDiadems:
Perhaps you didn't read me well enough.
You hear, you believe, and confess Christ as Lord, then, you're saved. You're born again. The Holy Spirit comes to dwell in you.
The Baptism of the Holy Spirit comes by the laying on of hands. It is a promise of God to those who are saved. It you're saved, I can lay hands on you to receive the baptism. But if you're not born again, that is not saved, you have no portion in these things.

You got all wrong. The apostles were already saved (already believed) before they got the holy spirit.

If you said they were already born again before the day of Pentecost, how did it happen because without the holy spirit, you can't be born again according to Jesus's explanation at John 3.