₦airaland Forum

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BetterHeadline:
Yes, it didn't say "thou shall not KILL."
It says "Thou shall not MURDER."

The word "kill" in Exodus 20:13 and Deuteronomy 5:17 means "murder." The proper translation is THOU SHALT NOT MURDER. It is interesting that in Matthew 19:18 the KJV correctly translates the Sixth Commandment: "Thou shalt do no murder."

The Hebrew word ( ratsach) and the Greek Word (phonenō ) which are used in the Sixth Commandment both clearly mean "murder." The Hebrew language has a general word for killing (the verb "muwth" , meaning "to cause to die" ) and the Greek language has a general word for killing (the verb "apokteinō" ), but these general terms for killing are not used in the Sixth Commandment. Instead very specific words are used which forbid MURDER.

Murder is a legally defined concept. In short Murder means to kill unlawfully with premeditated malice. It involves a deliberate, planned, pre-mediated attack against a fellow human being for the purpose of taking his life for reasons that are purely sinful.

Of course it is permitted to kill but in self defense and in self defense of those brethren in Christ against those who are harming them: especially against those people that are murdering them.

Some example of self defense:
Crusaders
Below is the letter Robert The Monk wrote to Pope Urban II in 1000s which lead to the creation of the crusaders.

They were busy raping Christian women, butchering Christian children, and committing other manner of crimes against Christians and then they played the victim when Christians came back for their heads. Till today they haven't shut up about Crusaders.

Central Africa Republic (C A R)


Angola


There are other examples of course, but you kind of get my point.

We all saw how they murdered Deborah Samuel and other Christians in the North. In fact thousands have been killed and hundreds of our women raped (many of whom are raped to death.)

They say Nigeria constitution and laws is above our Religious laws, and I agree with them. But I'm just using this post to remind you Christian brethren that if Nigeria laws continue to fail to protect us, we still have our religious laws to fall back on.
And none of our religious law says: "Thou shall not kill."

When Jesus said:

And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Matthew 24:12-13

Of course Jesus Christ who said these knew very well that the human laws will fail to protect their citizens during the great tribulation that's why he said when all these things begin to happen "the love many have for him will grow cold" so it's either we endure to the end and get saved from this wicked system of things or we join them in the bloodbath that's ongoing! Revelations 6:3-4

May you have PEACE!

BetterHeadline:
.Murder is a legally defined concept. In short Murder means to kill unlawfully with premeditated malice. It involves a deliberate, planned, pre-mediated attack against a fellow human being for the purpose of taking his life for reasons that are purely sinful.

Of course it is permitted to kill but in self defense and in self defense of those brethren in Christ against those who are harming them: especially against those people that are murdering them.....We all saw how they murdered Deborah Samuel and other Christians in the North. In fact thousands have been killed and hundreds of our women raped (many of whom are raped to death.)

They say Nigeria constitution and laws is above our Religious laws, and I agree with them. But I'm just using this post to remind you Christian brethren that if Nigeria laws continue to fail to protect us, we still have our religious laws to fall back on.
And none of our religious law says: "Thou shall not kill."

Jesus Christ permitted absolutely none of His own to kill in self defense. He was more than clear about that this I. HIS Law and Covenant for those who live in the Kingdom of God.

Matthew 5 vs 43-48 (ERV)
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38. “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’[i]
39. But I tell you, don’t fight back against someone who wants to do harm to you. If they hit you on the right cheek, let them hit the other cheek too.
40. If anyone wants to sue you in court and take your shirt, let them have your coat too.
41. If a soldier forces you to walk with him one mile,[j] go with him two.
42. Give to anyone who asks you for something. Don’t refuse to give to anyone who wants to borrow from you.
43. “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[k] and hate your enemy.’
44. But I tell you, love your enemies. Pray for those who treat you badly.
45. If you do this, you will be children who are truly like your Father in heaven. He lets the sun rise for all people, whether they are good or bad. He sends rain to those who do right and to those who do wrong.
46. If you love only those who love you, why should you get a reward for that? Even the tax collectors do that.
47. And if you are nice only to your friends, you are no better than anyone else. Even the people who don’t know God are nice to their friends.
48. What I am saying is that you must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Those who go against the teachings(and commandments) of Jesus Christ are those who are of their father, the devil and have absolutely nothing to do with God or Jesus Christ, God's Truth.

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BetterHeadline:
That is how the likes of you mislead Christians by misquoting The Book.

Mathew 5:38-39
This instruction is only applicable when your life or those of you Christian brethren is not in immediate danger. It is just an instruction to avoid arguments and to avoid escalating any issues.
The "if they strike a cheek, turn the other cheek" is parable. Of course you aren't going to just stand around and allow somebody to slap your face. The parable here is comparing "being insulted" to "being slapped in the face." It basically saying if somebody insult you, then instead of insulting the person back you should allow the person to insult you more till they are tired.

2. 38-39 basically says: "it is better to avoid escalating issues. And to allow people to insult you till they are tired."
The usage of the verb "harm" was the choice of the translators of the bible version you quoted. In some version the verb "harm" wasn't used. From the original text it was clear Jesus didn't mean "physical harm".

3. Mathew 40-42
These verses aren't relevant to the discussion.

Mathew 43-44
43 was referencing the Old testament (that was the reason the Old testament was was added to the bible: To serve as a reference to the new testament.)
"...and to hate your enemy" in the culture of the days before Christ: once a group of people are hated, the Jew were instructed to attack such people even if the people didn't attack them.
44- Jesus basically forbad Christians from attacking people who are not attacking them. However, logically speaking he didn't forbid Christians from defending themselves from people who are attacking them.

4. Mathew 48
This verse actually proves my point. The only account of His Father we have is the Old Testament. In the Old Testament, The Father permits to kill in self defense. The Father even killed in defense of believers-- like what he did to the Egyptians. And look, Jesus said we should be just like his Father.

1. Turn the other cheek is a parable?
https://biblehub.com/matthew/5-39.htm#lexicon

2. From the original text, Jesus Christ didn't mean physical harm?

3. Jesus merely forbade Christians from attacking people but somehow logically he did not forbid them from defending themselves??

4. The Father permits killings and being perfect means Jesus Christ too permits killings?

Yet the same Jesus Christ is written of as having been led like a lamb to slaughter- without even offering a defense for Himself against those who wanted Him dead- to His death?

You are a liar and a terrible one at that..

MaxInDHouse:
When Jesus said:

And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Matthew 24:12-13

Of course Jesus Christ who said these knew very well that the human laws will fail to protect their citizens during the great tribulation that's why he said when all these things begin to happen "the love many have for him will grow cold" so it's either we endure to the end and get saved from this wicked system of things or we join them in the bloodbath that's ongoing! Revelations 6:3-4

May you have PEACE!

If not for the Ibandan warriors who stopped Usman Danfodios conquest mission, there wouldn't have been any Christians left today in southern Nigeria. Each time christians do nothing and they are overran by Muslims, that place will seize to be a christian area, and every surviving person is forced to become one of them.

2elliot:
If not for the Ibandan warriors who stopped Usman Danfodios conquest mission, there wouldn't have been any Christians left today in southern Nigeria. Each time christians do nothing and they are overran by Muslims, that place will seize to be a christian area, and every surviving person is forced to become one of them.

Jesus taught us how to ATTACK them first but Satan turned it to physical attack instead of the psychological attack Jesus laid down. Matthew 10:11-15; 24:18-20
There was nothing called Islam before Jesus of Nazareth and after Jesus commissioned Christianity Satan used the Jews to kill all the pioneers of Christianity and raised Pagan Rome with falsehood to supercede the truth that Jesus commissioned, that's why Jesus was lamenting when he foresee what was ahead of Christianity after the death of his Jewish disciples {Matthew 13:25} in fact Jesus asked "will i meet this faith (Christianity) when i come back?" Luke 18:8

So it was the Pagan Roman fabrication called "Roman Catholic Church" that was forcing their false teachings on people everywhere they go, they called it the "Crusades for Christ" that's what most nations later knew as Christianity not the peaceful religion Jesus established back then. It was this brutal religion that was taken to all the regions of the Mediterranean sea and their fame was heard both far and near. That's what Muhammad of Mecca knew as Christianity. So when he tried to start a peaceful group like a virtuous person the politically oriented Roman Catholic Church were busy intimidating people with their Cross everywhere they go.

If it was the peaceful preaching and teaching Jesus commissioned as Christianity that was taken to Mecca Muhammad wouldn't have started any religion to counter the perfect setting God's Son established, but what was taken to Mecca was the brutal Roman Catholic religion that was intimidating people with their Cross, flags and soldiers claiming crusades for Jesus Christ.

So don't think Islam emerged from nowhere as a terrible religion, it was the Roman Catholic Church that gave birth to brutality that's prevalent in religion today!

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BetterHeadline:
1. Have you heard of the saying: "That was a slap in the face?" Usually said when somebody insult or embarrass you.

3. Luke 22:36

4. In self defense. To be fair to you, Jesus neither permit nor forbid "killing" in self defense. However, defending oneself and Christian brethren is permitted. Christians have been defending themselves for thousands of years, so why choose now to stop? More often than not killing is required to defend oneself especially against an horde of aggressors. Since killing in self defense isn't forbidden, then we can only conclude that it is permitted.

5. Because His death was necessary to fulfill all righteousness. He had no reasons to defend himself. One of Jesus last commands before he was crucified was Luke 22:36 which talked of self defense.

You really think God's Law is a joke, don't you? you take God for a fool, right?

You failed in your attempt at using Matthew 5 vs 38 - 48 to justify your wickedness, now you want to pretend the events that took place in Luke 22 justify your lies?

I suggest you take time to read through Luke 22 again, this time paying close attention to how Jesus Christ indicated prophecy was to be fulfilled that links Him to criminals and how in verse 52 of the same chapter Jesus Christ Himself, this after correcting the result of an attack carried out by one of His own, this after commanding His followers to stop, then suggested that those who came to get Him came wielding swords suggesting Him some sort of criminal.

BetterHeadline:
1. Have you heard of the saying: "That was a slap in the face?" Usually said when somebody insult or embarrass you.

3. Luke 22:36

4. In self defense. To be fair to you, Jesus neither permit nor forbid "killing" in self defense. However, defending oneself and Christian brethren is permitted. Christians have been defending themselves for thousands of years, so why choose now to stop? More often than not killing is required to defend oneself especially against an horde of aggressors. Since killing in self defense isn't forbidden, then we can only conclude that it is permitted.

5. Because His death was necessary to fulfill all righteousness. He had no reasons to defend himself. One of Jesus last commands before he was crucified was Luke 22:36 which talked of self defense.

It would be helpful if you can point to examples of Christians (not Judaisers in the Old Testament o) in the scriptures that killed their enemies. Anywhere from Acts to Revelation please.

OkCornel:
It would be helpful if you can point to examples of Christians (not Judaisers in the Old Testament o) in the scriptures that killed their enemies. Anywhere from Acts to Revelation please.

Without those killings in Old Testament there won’t be any Christianity in New Testament.
And if you look at the history of how Christianity started, it’s through the help of the Romans and crusaders!

Maynman:
Without those killings in Old Testament there won’t be any Christianity in New Testament.
And if you look at the history of how Christianity started, it’s through the help of the Romans and crusaders!

Let’s be clear. Do you want to practice Judaism? Or Christianity.

If it’s Christianity you claim to profess, just provide scriptural references where Christians killed their enemies. I’m not asking for too much.

If you want to kill your enemies, leave Christianity out of it. No need to twist the scriptures to suit your agenda.

OkCornel:
Let’s be clear. Do you want to practice Judaism? Or Christianity.

If it’s Christianity you claim to profess, just provide scriptural references where Christians killed their enemies. I’m not asking for too much.

If you want to kill your enemies, leave Christianity out of it. No need to twist the scriptures to suit your agenda.

Let’s be clear, Christianity came from Judaism. Even when “Jesus” was alive he was a Judaist.
Who do you think owns the OLD TESTAMENT y’all borrowed into the Christian Bible? Was it your loving god that was approving all the killings in Old Testament?

Maynman:
Let’s be clear, Christianity came from Judaism. Even when “Jesus” was alive he was a Judaist.

My request is simple and straightforward.
Just show scriptural references where Christians killed their enemies. Is that too hard to find?

OkCornel:
My request is simple and straightforward.
Show scriptural references where Christians killed their enemies. Is that too hard to find?

Is Old Testament not in the Bible used by Christians? Is that hard to comprehend? Was it not your loving god commanding the killings in Old Testament?

I don’t understand?

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BetterHeadline:
The only person taking God for a fool here is he who thinks the appropriate defence against a horde of aggressors is to do nothing but watch himself, his sons, his neighbors, and his neighbors son get butcher while his wife and daughters, and his neighbors' wife and daughter get rape. Then when you stand before God and ask why He didn't come down to protect you and your family, he will say: "I told you to sell everything you have and buy a sword."

God's New Covenant and Law in the Kingdom of God is as clearly given to you by Jesus Christ, the one who embodies the Law/Gospel and God's Truth.

Matthew 5 vs 43-48 (ERV)
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38. “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’[i]
39. But I tell you, don’t fight back against someone who wants to do harm to you. If they hit you on the right cheek, let them hit the other cheek too.
40. If anyone wants to sue you in court and take your shirt, let them have your coat too.
41. If a soldier forces you to walk with him one mile,[j] go with him two.
42. Give to anyone who asks you for something. Don’t refuse to give to anyone who wants to borrow from you.
43. “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[k] and hate your enemy.’
44. But I tell you, love your enemies. Pray for those who treat you badly.
45. If you do this, you will be children who are truly like your Father in heaven. He lets the sun rise for all people, whether they are good or bad. He sends rain to those who do right and to those who do wrong.
46. If you love only those who love you, why should you get a reward for that? Even the tax collectors do that.
47. And if you are nice only to your friends, you are no better than anyone else. Even the people who don’t know God are nice to their friends.
48. What I am saying is that you must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

He told you that those who love Him are those who obey His teachings( and commandments) - John 14 vs 15 - 25

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BetterHeadline:
Well Mathew 5 vs 43-48 are not only his teachings.

John 2:15-- Jesus had no problems using aggression when necessary

I am curious!

Is it that Jesus Christ was defending Himself from an attacker there in John 2 vs 15?

Kobojunkie:
I am curious!

Is it that Jesus Christ was defending Himself from an attacker there in John 2 vs 15?

It’s no more about “violence” now it’s defending?
How low can you go?

Maynman:
Is Old Testament not in the Bible used by Christians? Is that hard to comprehend? Was it not your loving god commanding the killings in Old Testament?

I don’t understand?

Old Testament is Judaism

New Testament (Acts to Revelation) is the church and Christianity

OkCornel:
Old Testament is Judaism

New Testament (Acts to Revelation) is the church and Christianity

Why are Christians using a Judaist book, yet you don’t believe in Judaism?
When “Jesus” was alive he was Judaist, you know who is the father of Judaism?

BetterHeadline:
The New Testament only talked about the life of Christ, and none about Christians. So your request is silly.

So sad, so in your new Testament, it did not say anything about the "Act of the Apostles", and the various letters written by James the brother of Jesus, Jude the brother of Jesus, Apostle John, Apostle Paul or Apostle Peter?

Oh well, the bolded says a lot about your level of knowledge on the scriptures...

Now please, show us examples of where the Apostles and early Christians killed their enemies in the new testament.

OkCornel:
So sad, so in your new Testament, it did not say anything about the "Act of the Apostles", and the various letters written by James the brother of Jesus, Jude the brother of Jesus, Apostle John, Apostle Paul or Apostle Peter?

Oh well, the bolded says a lot about your level of knowledge on the scriptures...

Now please, show us examples of where the Apostles and early Christians killed their enemies in the new testament.

Bro, Christianity is a creation of Roman Catholic.

Maynman:
Why are Christians using a Judaist book, yet you don’t believe in Judaism?
When “Jesus” was alive he was Judaist, you know who is the father of Judaism?

Read Acts 15 and clear up your ignorance. That laid a clear marker on the difference between Judaism and Christianity.

Either you choose one or the other. You can't do both

OkCornel:
Read Acts 15 and clear up your ignorance. That laid a clear marker on the difference between Judaism and Christianity.

Either you choose one or the other. You can't do both

You haven’t answered the question, why are Christians using a Judaist book yet you don’t believe in Judaism? You won’t be able to understand their book.

Maynman:
Bro, Christianity is a creation of Roman Catholic.

Oh wow, so the Roman Catholic were the ones at Antioch who labelled the followers of Jesus as Christians?

Acts 11 v 26;
26 and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

OkCornel:
Oh wow, so the Roman Catholic were the ones at Antioch who labelled the followers of Jesus as Christians?

Acts 11 v 26;
26 and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

It was Tertulian that labeled them and he didn’t call them “christian”, it was “chrestian”

Before Tertulian named them “Chrestian” what were they referred to as?

Maynman:
You haven’t answered the question, why are Christians using a Judaist book yet you don’t believe in Judaism? You won’t be able to understand their book.

Judaism is the past. The information is there to show how the new covenant evolved from the old covenant.

For record purposes.

Now please answer my question, where were Christians asked to kill their enemies? Where did Christ or the Apostles preach this?

OkCornel:
Judaism is the past. The information is there to show how the new covenant evolved from the old covenant.

For record purposes.

Now please answer my question, where were Christians asked to kill their enemies? Where did Christ or the Apostles preach this?

It’s in the past yet Christians are still using it?
are you not proud of Old Testament?
Without Judaism you won’t be a Christian.

Maynman:
It was Tertulian that labeled them and he didn’t call them “christian”, it was “chrestian”

Before Tertulian named them “Chrestian” what were they referred to as?

Christians, Chrestians... it doesn't change anything. They are followers of Jesus (Yeshua or Yahushua)

Please show us where this Christians were instructed to kill their enemies by Jesus or the Apostles. Is this to difficult to find in the Bible?