"If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" - Religion (4) - Nairaland
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| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by NNTR: 5:15pm On May 18, 2022 |
OLAADEGBU: NNTR:
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| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Kobojunkie: 5:22pm On May 18, 2022 |
Mikee19:Since Jesus Christ is the one who is the ultimate authority on God's Truth, it means that every other claimed Truth need be subjected to scrutiny under God's Truth, Jesus Christ, right?  So, basically what you read in even letters to the Hebrew Christians has to be validated against what God's Truth Himself has previously declared to us. After all, this is the only way we can obey Jesus Christ who warned us to avoid at all times the doctrines and traditions of men which He declared were instead lies that deceive us away from God's Truth, with consequence of nullifying the power of God in our lives and rendering our worship of God meaningless- Matthew 15 vs 1 - 14 & Mark 7 vs 1 - 13 What Jesus Christ said about Sonship hints at it being attacked overtime as explained in John 8 vs 31 - 35. Any view that contradicts Jesus Christ obviously cannot be of Jesus Christ, can it? |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by NNTR: 5:56pm On May 18, 2022 |
OLAADEGBU: HedwigesMaduro:FreedomfromtheT has below kindly directed you to please read Psalms 45: 6,7 and Hebrews 1:8,9 FreedomfromtheT: HedwigesMaduro:Its divinity speaking to divinity. It is Influence speaking about Influence. If you come think about it, on a divinity level, there's nothing unusual, surprising or abnormal in this FreedomfromtheT:Exactly and there's no wrong in doing anything like that HedwigesMaduro:Yes, God the Father is the God of God the Son HedwigesMaduro:John 11:40-42 '40Jesus said to her, “Did I not say to you that if you believe [in Me], you will see the glory of God [the expression of His excellence]?” 41So they took away the stone. And Jesus raised His eyes [toward heaven] and said, “Father, I thank You that You have heard Me. 42I knew that You always hear Me and listen to Me; but I have said this because of the people standing around, so that they may believe that You have sent Me [and that You have made Me Your representative].”' Luke 10:22 'All things have been transferred and turned over to Me by My Father and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, or who the Father is except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wishes to reveal Him.' Yes, it safely can be said that God the Son is also the God of God the Father, because they are mutually submissive to each as is seen in the preceded verses above. Luke 10:22 is working against whoever doesnt know who Jesus Christ fully is FreedomfromtheT:Exactly, the word and title God is synonymous with divine dominance, power and influence Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories. |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by orisa37: 6:08pm On May 18, 2022 |
IT IS TO GLORY GOD AS THE ULTIMATE JUSTICE AND DECIDER OF EVERYTHING IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH. |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Janosky: 6:57pm On May 18, 2022 |
NNTR:Psalms 45:6 , Hebrew Masoretic Text. Psalms 45:6, Catholic New Jerusalem Bible. Psalms 45:6, the Message Bible debunk your claim as FALSE. Psalm 45:6 = 1 Chronicles 29:23 & 2 Chronicles 9:8 "They throne given of God", the correct rendition of Hebrews 1:8. NNTR:False claims built on faulty rendition of Hebrews 1:8.  Trinitarians can NEVER say Jesus is the God of his Father. .NNTR:Oga, in John 11:40-42, who is praying ? Who is hearing and listening? When and where,(chapter and verse) did God pray to His Son? NNTR:John 17:7, Jesus Christ says No... Christ confirm he was GIVEN /RECEIVED everything he has. 1 Corinthians 11:3,1 Corinthians 3:23 & 1Corinthians 15:27, Paul confirms that. Yahweh Almighty did NOT submit to any being ,not even to Jesus Christ. |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by NNTR: 7:44pm On May 18, 2022 |
Janosky:Jesus and God the Father, both influence each other. God the Father does what Jesus asks Janosky:God, as Jesus, is who is praying in John 11:40-42 Janosky:Same God, as God the Father, is who is hearing and listening Janosky:If you tell in what capacity God would pray to His Son, tell I might dignify answering this question Janosky:Yes, of course, He was given and/or received everything. Is that a lie then? What's wrong in giving oneself things? Whats wrong in receiving things from oneself? Jesus’ words and actions reflect only what God could say and do. Nicodemus in a roundabout way even too confirmed this. Our Lord Jesus Christ hasn't a quibble being both subordinate and equal to God, its only you and your buddies who are frothing in the face over it Janosky:If the Godhead didnt submit to each other, the gift of salvation, the plan of redemption, reconciliation and atonement would have not come to pass Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories. |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Kobojunkie: 8:17pm On May 18, 2022 |
Mikee19:1. My question was direct but since you didn't provide a direct response I ask if what is written in some way goes counter to that declared by Jesus Christ Himself. 2. Jesus Christ came to destroy all of the works of the devil? Jesus Christ said, this over 2000 years ago, "In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have(past tense) overcome the world." - John 16 vs 25 -33, so what devil is Jesus Christ still trying to destroy over 2000 years later? As for death - God's own judgement against mankind - , why is he the last enemy to be conquered when Jesus Christ already conquered death when He rose from the dead? Does Jesus Christ need to fight death a second time or what? 3. In Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46, Jesus Christ, the one to infact do the judging, the King in the Kingdom of God, already gave you the details of the criteria by which He will judge when He returns. Why is that not acceptable explanation as far as the judgement to come?? 4. Jesus Christ lived His life in submission and obedience to God's Old Covenant Law, an imperfect standard when compared to God's New Covenant Law of the Kingdom of God, God's perfect standard, which Jesus Christ came to teach to and call His followers to instead. According to Jesus Christ, He came to ransom the Jewish sinners from the Old Covenant Law of Moses by His death on the cross. But you are suggesting instead Jesus Christ lived by a lesser standard so He could impart righteousness gained from that to you who are called to a higher standard, why? How can you be saved according to a Perfect standard by imputation of that gained through the following of an imperfect standard? It doesn't make sense at all. 5. Where does scripture say He judges as the son of man?, |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Mikee19(m): 8:28pm On May 18, 2022 |
kobojunkie it's not that i didn't wish to respond to you, battery was low and i got busy. But tbh discussing with you can be quite tiring. You have a habit of arguing against what is clearly written in scripture, asking "how can that be true". Newsflash: it is scripture! by very definition it is true! Why not just accept it? But not you. You'll still argue against what has been quoted to be clearly written. Not a good habit for one who wants to grow in God's word... I'll be back |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Kobojunkie: 8:34pm On May 18, 2022 |
Mikee19:Can you prove that any of what I have stated so far is Antichrist aka against the very Truth of God Himself or do you simply conclude instead that what I say is against what is written simply because it doesn't align with the conclusions in your mind there? Everything you have stated does not even agree with Jesus Christ Himself, and in scripture is found written Even the Words of Satan along with the doctrines and traditions of men which Jesus Christ said were all lies meant to deceive you away from God's Truth , that which was declared by Jesus Christ Himself. So telling me something is written in scripture is not enough to verify it as Truth. Instead it is that which aligns with the Word of God that is first and foremost God's Truth. |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Mikee19(m): 8:42pm On May 18, 2022 |
Honestly, some things, such as righteousness, are too fundamental that they'll require way too much energy to begin discussing, and that with someone who doesn't accept all scripture as truth, but will argue against scripture, stating that the epistles are less than the words of Jesus for some reason. This of course is false. Jesus plainly stated he had more to say but couldn't say them because they won't understand them, and said the Holy Spirit will come and teach them those things he wanted to say, taking from Jesus and giving to them whatever he hears from Jesus. Therefore the epistles contain the words of Jesus too, by the Holy Spirit, which is even higher than what Jesus himself taught because the apostles didn't at the time have the ability to understand all things he'll have taught, which the Spirit now taught! Therefore they are more relevant to the church. They are also direct letters written to the church. Plus, all scripture is inspired of God! I simply don't have the energy to begin at a place like this when even fundamentals like acceptance of all scripture as God's word, complementing each other, as well as understanding the basic fundamentals of how righteousness works isn't in place. I can't.. Cheers |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Mikee19(m): 8:44pm On May 18, 2022 |
Too much energy required. I can't. Cheers Kobojunkie: |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Kobojunkie: 8:45pm On May 18, 2022 |
Mikee19:.You don't have the energy to do that yet you are quick to assume what I put forward is not of God's Truth?, Look, if you don't obey even God's law as far as whose Truth you should submit to and whose to reject, of what good is your claim to be of Him?  If you need time to respond, go right ahead. |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Mikee19(m): 8:49pm On May 18, 2022 |
Kobojunkie: Not assuming. I can do it with way too much typing. No energy to do that. You'll again argue with scripture. I can see it, but cannot expend energy teaching fundamentals again here! |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Kobojunkie: 8:52pm On May 18, 2022 |
Mikee19:As I already explained before, I don't believe in scripture. Instead I believe in the Word of God, God's Truth and Law in the Kingdom of God. |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Maynman: 8:54pm On May 18, 2022 |
Kobojunkie: Is the handwriting of your god beautiful? Or who wrote it for you to read? |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Mikee19(m): 8:59pm On May 18, 2022 |
You will do well to mind these words: Jesus plainly stated he had more to say but couldn't say them because they won't understand them, and said the Holy Spirit will come and teach them those things he wanted to say, taking from Jesus and giving to them whatever he hears from Jesus. NKJV Joh 16:12-14: "¹² “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. ¹³ However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak...¹⁴ He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you."" Therefore the epistles contain the words of Jesus too, by the Holy Spirit, which is even higher than what Jesus himself taught because the apostles didn't at the time have the ability to understand all things he'll have taught, which the Spirit now taught! NKJV 1Co 2:6-7,13: "⁶ However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. ⁷ But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, … ¹³ These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual." The epistles are for the MATURE! Unlike in the gospels when they were NOT mature and couldn't bear to learn it all! In words which the Holy Spirit teaches which they then teach in the epistles! In what he, the Holy Spirit, hears from Jesus! Therefore they are more relevant to the church. They are also direct letters written to the church. 1 Like |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Mikee19(m): 9:00pm On May 18, 2022 |
Kobojunkie: Cheers then! 1 Like |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Kobojunkie: 10:33pm On May 18, 2022 |
Mikee19:I am aware of what Jesus Christ said in John 16 vs 12 - 14. However, what I find interesting is how you all gloss over the highlighted part of what Jesus Christ said. So if Jesus Christ is who He claims to be, God's Covenant and agreement signed and sealed - declared finished on the cross - Matthew 26 vs 28 - 30 - then doesn't that mean it it against God for any man to add , change or remove doctrines and rules from the Truth of God as established by Jesus Christ? Jesus Christ indeed declared it sin with a curse for anyone to teach a doctrines or tradition that is not of Him in His Name - He declared woe on all false teachers and false prophets, including the blind ones - Matthew 23 Jesus Christ also declared sin with a curse for anyone to follow the doctrines and traditions of men, lies He called them,in His name declaring that the power of God is nullified in the lives of those who do and their worship of Him rendered void by their acts - Matthew 15 vs 1 - 10 & Mark 7 vs 1 - 13. |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by OLAADEGBU(m): 10:52pm On May 18, 2022 |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Mikee19(m): 5:06am On May 19, 2022 |
Kobojunkie: On the contrary, that highlighted part is the reason I say what I say; that the epistles contain the words of Jesus, because the Holy Spirit took from what Jesus would have taught them that they couldn't understand at the time to tell the apostles Kobojunkie: I'm not understanding. So because Jesus said "it is finished" therefore even his teaching or doctrine is finished too with no more truth to be taught? Wow! This is a gross misunderstanding and misapplication of scripture! Jesus DID NOT SAY DOCTRINE IS FINISHED! In fact, He specifically said doctrine IS NOT FINISHED!. He specifically said he will send the Holy Spirit TO ADD TO WHAT HE TAUGHT THEM, BECAUSE HE COULDN'T TEACH IT ALL since they at the time could not understand! Or did you not read that in the scripture I sent, the very words of Jesus HIMSELF! NKJV Joh 16:12-14: "¹² “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. ¹³ However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak... ¹⁴ He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you." If they couldn't bear them at that time, but later when the Holy Spirit came he'll tell them what Jesus couldn't, doesn't that indicate to you NEW doctrine that Jesus couldn't teach them at the time? You stretch this "it is finished" WAY TOO FAR! It is YOU who is right now negating Jesus' own words that The Holy Spirit was to add further doctrine he himself couldn't teach! Or you truly cannot see that Jesus himself taught this? This is what i meant by arguing with what is clearly written. If you will even argue argue with the words of Jesus, I can't help you there! The work of redemption is what is finished! Not teaching of doctrine. Jesus, very very clearly, declared it is UNFINISHED! Will you argue with the Lord and savior that by force that must be finished?? For this reason Jesus gave apostles, prophets, teachers, etc, to teach doctrine in addition to what he taught but couldn't finish! The teaching of doctrine WAS NOT FINISHED, don't argue with what Jesus himself very clearly said! 1 Like |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Mikee19(m): 6:46am On May 19, 2022 |
Kobojunkie honestly i struggle to see why you love to argue with what's written clearly. It seems to be a habit of yours, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. John 16:12-13 CEV 12 I have much more to say to you, but right now it would be more than you could understand. 13 The Spirit shows what is true and will come and guide you into the full truth. The Spirit doesn't speak on his own. He will tell you only what he has heard from me 1) In Jesus very plain words, could the apostles understand what other things Jesus wanted to tell them, or Jesus was just a plain liar? Was it only a little more Jesus had to tell them or much more?? 2) If Jesus had MUCH MORE to tell them, what happens to the rest of his teaching? Does it automatically become "finished" once Jesus goes to the cross and says "it is finished" like you seem to have claimed, or does Jesus find another way to teach them those things? 3) If Jesus found another way to teach them, what way was was this, was it not through the Holy Spirit WHO CAME TO TEACH THEM AFTER IT WAS SUPPOSEDLY FINISHED like you claimed? scripture : John 14:26 CEV But the Holy Spirit will come and help you, because the Father will send the Spirit to take my place. The Spirit will (number 1) teach you everything and(number 2) will remind you of what I said while I was with you. 4) You seem to think that the Holy Spirit taking from Jesus to teach to them was him reminding them of what Jesus had ALREADY SAID before while on earth, since "everything was finished". So now look at scripture, the very words of the Lord Jesus Christ again. Did Jesus indicate that the Holy Spirit "teaching them all things" was a very different thing from him reminding them of the things Jesus ALREADY TAUGHT EARLIER, or not? "Teaching them things" and "reminding them what Jesus taught" are they the same? 5) If they're not the same, and "teaching them all things" is a very different thing than "reminding them of Jesus teaching" which Jesus already taught them, doesn't this then mean that what the Holy Spirit will teach them is BRAND NEW, WHAT JESUS NEVER SAID BEFORE (or else it'll really be him reminding them again what was already said, which we can see is not the case?) 6) This brand new teaching the Holy Spirit will teach them that Jesus never taught before, aren't they as much the words of Jesus or not since he clearly said the Holy Spirit took it from Jesus AFTER THE SO-CALLED "IT IS FINISHED"! 7) Since the epistles contain those brand new teachings, from Jesus through the Holy Spirit, with the Holy Spirit telling them Jesus new words that Jesus couldn't teach them on earth, and since they're now in a position to understand them being more mature, on what basis do you reject JESUS OWN WORDS TAUGHT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT! Are these of not more relevance than what Jesus taught on earth, since they are taught to those more mature and in a position to now understand greater truths? I'm watching closely to see if you will again argue with the words of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, or you'll like a child simply accept them for what they're saying, though they may contradict what you felt you already knew. Are you humble enough to accept God's word, or too big to take correction from it, blindly sticking to your beliefs against clear scripture, looking for new ways to argue against Jesus Christ? We shall see... 1 Like |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Nobody: 10:10pm On May 19, 2022 |
NNTR: And I thought have seen it all. So, because God answered Jesus prayers means Jesus is God to God Almighty? I hope that is not what you meant in this write-up? So, has God ever answered you? You get my drift? |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Janosky: 5:21pm On May 20, 2022 |
NNTR:NNTR says his Gods are submissive to themselves. When NNTR prayers are answered , are his Gods submissive to him? Oga, your claim is not in your Bible. NNTR:John 20:17 & Matthew 27:46,Is the same God calling himself "my God"? Trinity na scam. NNTR:Oga, you can't answer the question . Or you risk the exposure of your 2 Gods "submissive to each other" doctrine. NNTR:NNTR post: "Jesus and God the Father, both influence each other." You referenced them as "each other" Oga, why do you contradict yourself? NNTR:You already referenced them as "oneself". Oga, why do you conflict your own statement? NNTR: Your "each other" is NOT "oneself". Oga, Trinity na man made scam invented by old men assembled at Nicaea led by Roman Emperor Constantine. |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Janosky: 5:24pm On May 20, 2022 |
HedwigesMaduro: . |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by NNTR: 8:25pm On May 22, 2022 |
Janosky:Learn to be honest, because, no where have I typed Gods. Janosky:I know of only one God Janosky:Your carnal mind prevents you from seeing things like that in the bible Janosky:Yes, because Jesus is the spoken Word of God, aka Logos, the creative order, and that Logos became human and lived among us. Janosky:Thought the doctrine was invented by the RCC, I wouldnt necessarily say, that trinity is a scam, because it is relevant in the 3 dimensions settings, that we currently are operating in. Celestial beings arent limited to 3 dimensions as we terrestrial beings are, and so God, who is Spirit, too isnt limited to trinity, as God is infinity. This is evident, when He told Moses the famous line: I AM that I AM, or I AM .... to the nth power, aka infinity Janosky:Let him try Janosky:Deuteronomy 6:4 '“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.' God is one, 'each other' used up there, is one, signifying that there is only a one number God, not Gods. Plurality e.g. Gods, doesnt come into play here Do not confuse the diversity of God to equate to be Gods Though the triune Godhead will eternally exist in the bible, the word trinity is not explicitly mentioned in it, because trinity is not a terminus for God. God is trinity and more, God is infinity Janosky:We currently are subjected to the limits of three dimensional existence, so the Godhead needs expressed in anything not less than three dimensional Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories. |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by NNTR: 8:25pm On May 22, 2022 |
HedwigesMaduro:When you live a very sheltered life, it'll be very hard to have it anything at all, let alone, see it all Janosky:You both are in the same much too sheltered life boat HedwigesMaduro:I'll answer your question, immediately after you truthfully and honestly give your answer to this question simple question below: Who notably alone has the power, authority and personality to declare and/or distinctly say: 'Your sins are forgiven' HedwigesMaduro:As I have earlier advanced, the word God, is a noun, title and even adjective, synonymous with another word, which is influence, even call it government, if you want to go a notch higher. So, yes, God, always answers me. In the context of John 11:42, that I earlier used, God, the Son, is also the God, of God, the Father, because they are mutually submissive to each. The influence on each other is mutual. Yes, there's this great effect on each other Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories. |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by TenQ: 9:11pm On May 22, 2022 |
boxer022:You are mixing things up The Father is God The Word is God The Holy Spirit is God When the Word became flesh, He took upon the limitations of the flesh. Hence, Jesus could be hungry, He could feel physical pain, He could be tired etc. When the Word became flesh, He became a Son, Servant, Messenger and Prophet to the Father Because in that capacity, Jesus represented man! 1 Like |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:35pm On Jun 07, 2022 |
If the name Jesus offends you, well...
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