"If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" - Religion (3) - Nairaland
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| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Maynman: 2:21pm On May 14, 2022 |
Mademan5: I didn’t avoid anyone, what did you say about? Did we welcome him the same way we welcomed usa president? The representative has been to Nigeria, if we check the record are we gonna see where the president has been to Nigeria? Since the representative is equal to president, it should also be noted that the USA president has been to Nigeria. |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Mademan5: 2:22pm On May 14, 2022 |
Maynman:I just used Buhari and Osinbajo to explain, you didn't get , used US Ambassador and US president to.explain to you yet you didn't still understand . Sorry I can't help you further |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Maynman: 2:23pm On May 14, 2022 |
Mademan5: Since the us ambassador is equal to us president. When did the USA president come to Africa? |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Mademan5: 2:24pm On May 14, 2022 |
Maynman:you don't get it, you are probably a kid. Goodbye, it was nice enlightening you but your sturbon spirit won't allow you to learn. |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Maynman: 2:24pm On May 14, 2022 |
Mademan5: If the us ambassador does anything irrational, will they see it’s the USA president since he is representing him? And they are mystically? |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Maynman: 2:25pm On May 14, 2022 |
Mademan5: Your analogy is flawed, you are probably a sheep, the indoctrination has eaten deep inside you. How can you say a representative will be given the same respect as the president?? Chai religion |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Maynman: 2:36pm On May 14, 2022 |
Mademan5: Do you know how many people president Buhari has sent out to represent him  , so many loopholes in your analogy. |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by FreedomfromtheT: 7:04pm On May 14, 2022 |
HedwigesMaduro:Sir, please read Psalms 45: 6,7 and Hebrews 1:8,9. Thanks. |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Janosky: 7:25pm On May 14, 2022 |
FreedomfromtheT:Psalm 45:6-7, Catholic Church New Jerusalem Bible & also Psalm 45:6-7,the Message Bible exposed Trinitarian Fraud of Hebrew 1:8. Psalm 45:6-7 Masoretic Text "The throne given of God" exposed Trinitarian fraud at Hebrew 1:8  .Psalm 45:6-7, 1 Chronicles 29:23 , Luke 1:32-33 & Revelation 3:21 are saying the same thing. God owns the throne given to His Son, Jesus Christ descended from King David lineage. Oga, pls go & confirm this fact revealed to you today. |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Nobody: 10:20pm On May 14, 2022 |
FreedomfromtheT: Ok. I've read it. Who was been spoken to in "that is why God, your God...? And Who was being called "your God"? Thanks. 1 Like |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by FreedomfromtheT: 11:44am On May 17, 2022 |
HedwigesMaduro:Ok. God the Son (Jesus Christ) was being spoken to by God the Father. Thanks. |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Nobody: 9:35pm On May 17, 2022 |
FreedomfromtheT: So God the Father is the God of God the Son. Is God the Son also the God of God the Father? 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Janosky: 10:21am On May 18, 2022 |
HedwigesMaduro:Excellent question. Trinitarians where art thou? Oga,TWALE |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Mikee19(m): 11:17am On May 18, 2022 |
HedwigesMaduro: Sigh.. The very op dealt with all this in the first post! Wonder if you even read it at all! NO, the Son CANNOT be God of the Father because the Father did not become, and is not MAN! Jesus became FULLY MAN! As man he slept even though he never did prior to being man. He felt hunger, he felt anguish, he used the toilet even. Again, he became FULLY MAN! He grew in wisdom as man tho the scriptures say he is the wisdom of God and that all treasures of wisdom and knowledge is fully in him! As man he had to submit to Joseph and Mary... In their wildest dreams they'll never have sought submission from, or dared to think of sending Jesus on any errand, before he became man! Again, HE BECAME MAN! FULLY MAN! Why is this so hard to grasp?? As a man he'll submit to the Father as God! When he had to submit to Joseph and Mary; why would this be too great a deal! Jesus became MAN! As man his God would also be the Father! No he cannot also be the Father's God as he wasn't the one who became man! I really hope it's all clear now! Even now he still retains human nature, albeit as a resurrected man (same as all who would be resurrected to have glorified bodies), so that he can yet carry out his priestly duties and the rest of what he came as man to do. 1 Like |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Nobody: 11:54am On May 18, 2022 |
Mikee19: Maybe you didn't realise He wasn't "fully man" when He was calling God Almighty "My God" (about 3 times) in Revelation chapter 3. Or when in the Visions of Daniel He was brought before the Ancient of Days (God Almighty). I'd love some mental gymnastics on this. |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Mikee19(m): 1:30pm On May 18, 2022 |
HedwigesMaduro: Did you really read my response first? I said Jesus retained his humanity till today! I said, and i quote: "Even now he still retains human nature, albeit as a resurrected man (same as all who would be resurrected to have glorified bodies), so that he can yet carry out his priestly duties and the rest of what he came as man to do." NKJV 1Ti 2:5: "⁵ For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus," He is the man Jesus as mediator today! NKJV Heb 2:14,17: "¹⁴ Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, … ¹⁷ Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest..." NKJV Heb 5:1-2: "¹ For every high priest taken from among men is appointed for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins. ² He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness." Heb 8:4 NWT If, now, he were upon earth, he would not be a priest, there being [men] who offer the gifts according to the Law, Only as a man can he be high priest! And only in heaven for that matter, not on earth! One more time, Jesus retains his human nature in heaven as a resurrected man same as all who will receive glorified bodies so that he can fulfill his ministry today! As for Daniel's vision, why not be satisfied with the interpretation given alongside the same vision?! Why bring your own interpretation? Are you unhappy because it didn't say what you'll rather it says? Here's the vision: Dan 7:2-7,9,10,13,14 NWT 2 Daniel was speaking up and saying: "I happened to be beholding in my visions during the night, and, see there! the four winds of the heavens were stirring up the vast sea. 3 And four huge beasts were coming up out of the sea, each one being different from the others. 4 "The first one was like a lion... 5 "And, see there! another beast, a second one, it being like a bear... 6 "After this I kept on beholding, and, see there! another {\cf15\I [beast]}, one like a leopard... 7 "After this I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see there! a fourth beast, fearsome and terrible and unusually strong... 9 "I kept on beholding until there were thrones placed and the Ancient of Days sat down... 10 The Court took its seat, and there were books that were opened. 13 "I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see there! with the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man happened to be coming; and to the Ancient of Days he gained access, and they brought him up close even before that One. 14 And to him there were given rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him. His rulership is an indefinitely lasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin. Summary of the vision: * four beasts, one "like a son of man" (In contrast to the beasts) * The ancient of days sits with a court that then sits * the one "like a son of man" is given indefinitely lasting rulership, the kingdom won't be brought to ruin. Now to the interpretation given within SCRIPTURE ITSELF: Dan 7:16-18 NWT 16 I went up close to one of those who were standing, that I might request from him reliable information on all this. And he said to me, as he went on to make known to me the very interpretation of the matters, 17 "'As for these huge beasts, because they are four, there are four kings that will stand up from the earth. 18 But the holy ones of the Supreme One will receive the kingdom, and they will take possession of the kingdom for time indefinite, even for time indefinite upon times indefinite.' Such a simple explanation! The four beasts are four kings of the earth. the one "like a son of man" stands for the holy ones of the Supreme one who will receive the Kingdom for times indefinite! Dan 7:22 NWT until the Ancient of Days came and judgment itself was given in favor of the holy ones of the Supreme One, and the definite time arrived that the holy ones took possession of the kingdom itself. Dan 7:26-27 NWT 26 And the Court itself proceeded to sit, and his own rulership they finally took away, in order to annihilate [him] and to destroy [him] totally. 27 "'And the kingdom and the rulership and the grandeur of the kingdoms under all the heavens were given to the people who are the holy ones of the Supreme One. Their kingdom is an indefinitely lasting kingdom, and all the rulerships will serve and obey even them.' According to the interpretation already given in scripture, the one "like a son of man" stands for the holy ones of the Supreme one. They are the ones given authority after the court sits before the ancient of days! Their kingdom is an indefinitely lasting kingdom and all rulership will serve and obey them! That person IS NOT Jesus... unless you really really want your own interpretation instead? |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Mikee19(m): 2:52pm On May 18, 2022 |
In that Daniel's vision where is Jesus? Since he isn't the one "like a son of man" who was given authority within the vision? In a thread I'll show that Jesus is the ancient of days IN THAT VISION (pls I know what I typed o, i didn't say somewhere else). I'll show "trinity" by primarily quoting from the New World Translation of JWs. Pls look out for that one then. Cheers! |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Kobojunkie: 3:27pm On May 18, 2022 |
Mikee19:So Jesus Christ is stil offering sacrifices for sin even to this day, is what you are insinuating? ,  |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Mikee19(m): 3:38pm On May 18, 2022 |
Kobojunkie: I'm certain i didn't say so. But he is to be a priest FOREVER after the order of Melchizedek. Why do you think that was necessary? The book of Hebrews made sure to emphasize that Jesus is a high priest FOREVER, and he is one TODAY, having a continuing ministry, although he offered sacrifice for sin ONCE to perfect the saints forever. NKJV Heb 4:14-16: "¹⁴ Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. ¹⁵ For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. ¹⁶ Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need." This refers to the PRESENT DAY MINISTRY of Jesus as high priest, one by which we can come boldly to the throne of grace and obtain mercy because we have such a one as high priest! One who can intercede for us, having perfected us forever by his one sacrifice NKJV Heb 7:23-25: "²³ Also there were many priests, because they were prevented by death from continuing. ²⁴ But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. ²⁵ Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them." 1 Like |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Kobojunkie: 3:46pm On May 18, 2022 |
Mikee19:I am trying to understand what being a man and, according to you, remaining a man even to thiz day has to do with Jesus Christ being a mediator or a high priest in God's New Covenant. He didn't come to make us men but instead to make us Sons of God so what has that got to do with remaining a man to this day? |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Mikee19(m): 3:56pm On May 18, 2022 |
Kobojunkie: You do realize we will remain human still? with glorified bodies just like Jesus? We won't change to become something else. We ARE sons of God today, and are men. The only thing that would change is our glorified bodies, but still man. Jesus too is the same. With his glorified human body. He remains man till today. According to scripture, only MAN can be priest, only he can represent and stand for man before God. Not an angel, not a spirit. MAN! No-one else can... Jesus can only represent man as MAN before God! |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Mikee19(m): 4:03pm On May 18, 2022 |
He can say to the Father, "look i understand that myself. I am just as him. Have mercy on him". This is very valid as he is man too. But if he stopped being man, it'll be on the basis that he was once like us? Anyways the scripture says he does this as MAN. Only this way does he fulfill his ministry today. And you know what? That's also how he'll judge the world. As man! As one perfect one who has been there and seen all, and triumphed over it all! NKJV Joh 5:27: "²⁷ and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man." |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Kobojunkie: 4:04pm On May 18, 2022 |
Mikee19:1. But according to God, and Jesus Christ, we are instead born sons or men. We only become Sons of God only after we are set free from slavery to sin - John 8 vs 31 - 35. 2. So this theory of a glorified body .. what does that imply? 3. Where in scripture are you referring to? |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Mikee19(m): 4:07pm On May 18, 2022 |
Jesus won't remain that way for all eternity though. When that changes, I'll clarify in my coming write-up on Trinity |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Mikee19(m): 4:20pm On May 18, 2022 |
Kobojunkie: Can you clarify what point in time this refers to? let's start from there... Kobojunkie: NKJV Ga 3:26: "²⁶ For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus." NKJV Ga 4:6: "⁶ And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”" This refers to present day sonship. Sons of God NOW |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Kobojunkie: 4:29pm On May 18, 2022 |
Mikee19:1. Why would Jesus Christ need to do any of that, this in addition to what He has already done over 2000 years ago?, 2. What scriptures say that? Jesus Christ, the man Himself, declared on the cross that it is finished, are you insinuating He still had more work to do as far as man's redemption is concerned?, 3. I don't understand. He said He would judge us by God's standard of righteousness - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46? |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Kobojunkie: 4:35pm On May 18, 2022 |
Mikee19:1. According to Jesus Christ, it is the point in time when you become a holy/Perfect vessel , with out blemish worthy of the Spirit of God Himself to inhabit and that all depends on your continuous submission to and obedience of the teachings(and commandments) of Jesus Christ, God's Truth, the only one capable of setting you free from slavery to sin by your knowing of Him. 2. Well, according to Jesus Christ, Sonship is attained only by those who continuously submit and obey Him and with about 100 commandments to Know, nothing of that sounds like a Now thing. |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Emperor88(m): 4:37pm On May 18, 2022 |
boxer022:You they mind the confused set of people...Jesus Christ and God both apperaed at the same time differently in revelation...One was referred to has the lamb that could be seen clearly sitting on the right hand of the throne while other sat on the throne. They both greeted differently by the Angels... 1 Like |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Mikee19(m): 4:48pm On May 18, 2022 |
Kobojunkie: At this point it's you arguing against scriptures. I tried to explain how and why, but ultimately it comes down to whether you're willing to accept what is clearly written like a child. If you disagree, you disagree with scripture in the end Kobojunkie: Wait, which scriptures say that Christ has present day ministry today? lol... You didn't see that he has a continuing priesthood even now? The work of redemption is finished, yes. But that is not all he even came for. He came to destroy the works of the devil, and he's not yet done. The last enemy will be death (1 Cor 15) Kobojunkie: Well, read again: NKJV Ro 2:5-11: "⁵ But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, ⁶ who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: ⁷ eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; ⁸ but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness— indignation and wrath, ⁹ tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; ¹⁰ but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. ¹¹ For there is no partiality with God." God will judge the world ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS! See how he judged those who persisted in DOING GOOD and those who DID EVIL. It was what they DID! You see it over and over again even in revelations, judging according to their WORKS! People don't understand how the sacrifice of Jesus works. Not sure i can fully explain here. What happens is a substitution of WORKS! The WORKS of Jesus become imputed to you as though that's what you did, God judges that, and you are saved. Doesn't mean it's no longer works he judges, scripture after scripture after scripture tells us Jesus judges according to our WORKS! And the scripture says he judges AS THE SON OF MAN. I didn't say this, was merely trying to help ur understanding. But again if you disagree, it's really scripture you're disagreeing with at this point |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by Mikee19(m): 4:51pm On May 18, 2022 |
Kobojunkie: Lol. And the scriptures I gave are fake? How do you reconcile that they are speaking of now? |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by FreedomfromtheT: 4:52pm On May 18, 2022 |
HedwigesMaduro:The point is that God the Father addressed God the Son as God. |
| Re: "If Jesus Is God, Then Why Did He Say That The Father Was Greater Than He?" by NNTR: 5:15pm On May 18, 2022 |
OLAADEGBU: HedwigesMaduro:FreedomfromtheT has below kindly directed you to please read Psalms 45: 6,7 and Hebrews 1:8,9 FreedomfromtheT: HedwigesMaduro:Its divinity speaking to divinity. It is Influence speaking about Influence. If you come think about it, on a divinity level, there's nothing unusual, surprising or abnormal in this FreedomfromtheT:Exactly and there's no wrong in doing anything like that HedwigesMaduro:Yes, God the Father is the God of God the Son HedwigesMaduro:John 11:40-42 '40Jesus said to her, “Did I not say to you that if you believe [in Me], you will see the glory of God [the expression of His excellence]?” 41So they took away the stone. And Jesus raised His eyes [toward heaven] and said, “Father, I thank You that You have heard Me. 42I knew that You always hear Me and listen to Me; but I have said this because of the people standing around, so that they may believe that You have sent Me [and that You have made Me Your representative].”' Luke 10:22 'All things have been transferred and turned over to Me by My Father and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, or who the Father is except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wishes to reveal Him.' Yes, it safely can be said that God the Son is also the God of God the Father, because they are mutually submissive to each as is seen in the preceded verses above. Luke 10:22 is working against whoever doesnt know who Jesus Christ fully is FreedomfromtheT:Exactly, the word and title God is synonymous with divine dominance, power and influence Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories. |
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