₦airaland Forum

tctrills:
So your point is that he could have died many days before but the Soldiers did not know until Friday?

According to records, the bodies of crucifixion victims are left hanging on the cross as a warning to others. The soldiers may have known of the time He died but simply didn't make any meaning of it since it did not matter at all to them.

What John's account says is that because the Sabbath after the very preparation day was a special sabbath, they asked that all bodies be taken down from the cross for the occasion. And so the body of Jesus Christ, who was already dead at the time, was then handed over to Joseph of Arimathea for burial.

tctrills:
That one is simple na. Read Mark chapter 14 and 15

According to Mark account, the Last Supper likely took place on the first day of the festival of unleavened bread but does not state that He died the very next day.

tctrills:
Your point is that he could have died on any day but was in the tomb for only two days?

That is what all four accounts agree on.

Kobojunkie:
According to Mark account, the Last Supper likely took place on the first day of the festival of unleavened bread but does not state that He died the very next day.

He was caught on the day of the last supper and crucified the next day. You would get this if you read Mark. He also died the same day he was crucified.

Kobojunkie:
According to records, the bodies of crucifixion victims are left hanging on the cross as a warning to others. The soldiers may have known of the time He died but simply didn't make any meaning of it since it did not matter at all to them.

What John's account says is that because the Sabbath after the very preparation day was a special sabbath, they asked that all bodies be taken down from the cross for the occasion. And so the body of Jesus Christ, who was already dead at the time, was then handed over to Joseph of Arimathea for burial.

No, the soldiers broke the legs of the thieves but by the time they came to Jesus, he was already dead. Hence, he was confirmed dead on Friday. He died the same day he was Crucified (we learn that from Matt 27 which gives a timeline)

tctrills:
No, the soldiers broke the legs of the thieves but by the time they came to Jesus, he was already dead. Hence, he was confirmed dead on Friday. He died the same day he was Crucified (we learn that from Matt 27 which gives a timeline)

Did The Soldiers state they did not know that He was already dead prior to that point in time?
Indeed we know Jesus Christ died approximately 6 hours after He was nailed to the cross, but the soldiers, according to the account given in Luke 23 vs 47, knew of this.

Kobojunkie:
That is what all four accounts agree on.

1. From reading Mark, we learn he was crucified the day after the last supper. (Mark 15.1 And straightway in the morning the chief priests held a consultation with the elders and scribes and the whole council, and bound Jesus, and carried him away, and delivered him to Pilate.)

2. From Mattew, we learn he died the same day he was crucified. (Matt27.46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?)

3. John pronounced him dead a day to the Sabbath (31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.

33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:

Kobojunkie:
Did The Soldiers state they did not know that He was already dead prior to that point in time?
Indeed we know Jesus Christ died approximately 6 hours after He was nailed to the cross, but the soldiers, according to the account given in Luke 23 vs 47, knew of this.

Yes they did.
33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:

tctrills:
Yes they did.
33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:

According to Luke 23 vs 47, the knowledge of his death was realized when by them when He died.

Kobojunkie:
According to Luke 23 vs 47, the knowledge of his death was realized when by them when He died.

And John states that the Soldiers discovered him dead on Friday afternoon. Put the 2 scriptures together, which means he died the same day, he was discovered dead which was Friday.

tctrills:
Yes they did.
33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:

Even Mark corroborates the claim that the soldiers were aware of the time of His death -

39 The army officer who was standing there in front of the cross saw what happened when Jesus died. The officer said, “This man really was the Son of God!” - Mark 15 vs 39

Kobojunkie:
Even Mark corroborates the claim that the soldiers were aware of the time of His death -

That simply means he died on Friday, and It was discovered the same day not on a latter-day and he was buried the same day.
So let's put everything together, Jesus died on Friday, it was confirmed by the Soldiers in John. Clearly, it all happened the same day?
Jesus Christ's legs were not broken when the Soldiers discovered he was dead.

tctrills:
And John states that the Soldiers discovered him dead on Friday afternoon. Put the 2 scriptures together, which means he died the same day, he was discovered dead which was Friday.

John didn't say the discovery was made only then.

33 But when the soldiers came close to Jesus, they saw that he was already dead. So they did not break his legs. - John 19 vs 33

Another issue of importance, is we have no way of telling if it was the same set of soldiers that witnessed the crucifixion that went there to bring the bodies down from the crosses.

tctrills:
That simply means he died on Friday, and It was discovered the same day not on a latter-day and he was buried the same day

Does not mean that at all.

Kobojunkie:
Does not mean that at all.

you just confirmed that the Soldiers discovered his death at the same time, meaning the leg-breaking even took place the same day he died.

tctrills:
you just confirmed that the Soldiers discovered his death at the same time, meaning the leg-breaking even took place the same day he died.

I did no such thing as you claim. I simply pointed out that some soldiers were aware of His death when it in fact happened. Does not in any way suggest the leg-breaking took place on the same day of His death or that it was carried out by the same soldiers who were previously aware of His death at the time that it happened.

Kobojunkie:
John didn't say the discovery was made only then. Another issue of importance, is we have no way of telling if it was the same set of soldiers that witnessed the crucifixion that went there to bring the bodies down from the crosses.

Now, this does not make sense anymore Luke tells us that the centurion witnessed his death. So you are saying that a certain centurion witnessed his death in one day and another set of soldiers came some other day to confirm he was dead? I am sure this is sounding funny even to you.

Kobojunkie:
I did no such thing as you claim. I simply pointed out that some soldiers were aware of His death when it in fact happened. Does not in any way suggest the leg-breaking took place on the same day of His death.

They were aware because they examined him to find out if they needed to break his leg.

tctrills:
Now, this does not make sense anymore Luke tells us that the centurion witnessed his death. So you are saying that a certain centurion witnessed his death in one day and another set of soldiers came some other day to confirm he was dead? I am sure this is sounding funny even to you.

Not at all since it is all within the realm of possibility based on what we have examined so far.

Kobojunkie:
Not at all since it is all within the realm of possibility based on what we have examined so far.

I guess we both made our points here. I am not sure you have the facts to back yours. Buts ok, It's always nice doing this with you. I always learn more when I debate with you.

LordReed:
Since when did sundown of the same day occur before sunrise?

Genesis 1:3-5, 8, 12-13
'3And God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.
4God saw that the light was good (pleasing, useful) and He affirmed and sustained it;
and God separated the light [distinguishing it] from the darkness.
5And God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
8God called the expanse [of sky] heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
12The earth sprouted and abundantly produced vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their kind,
and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, according to their kind;
and God saw that it was good and He affirmed and sustained it.
13And there was evening and there was morning, a third day.

The Jewish day starts at sundown or nightfall of the previous evening, and continues throughout the night and following day, until the next night. i.e. starts at nightfall, and continues throughout the night and following day, until the next night.

How do you mean?

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

tctrills:
He was caught on the day of the last supper and crucified the next day. You would get this if you read Mark. He also died the same day he was crucified.

According to Jesus Christ, the day of His arrest was the day of Passover.

1. After Jesus finished saying all these things, he said to his followers,
2. “You know that the day after tomorrow is Passover. On that day the Son of Man will be handed over to his enemies to be killed on a cross ” - Matthew 26 vs 1 - 2

The same day He had his Last Supper with His disciples.

Tctrills, I think I found a possible root to the problem https://www.nairaland.com/7110397/gospel-minddump#114741963

Kobojunkie:
Tctrills, I think I found a possible root to the problem https://www.nairaland.com/7110397/gospel-minddump#114741963

You now make the debate more complex. I would do some research as I don't know anything about the correct day to eat the Passover dinner.

tctrills:
You now make the debate more complex. I would do some research as I don't know anything about the correct day to eat the Passover dinner.

John, however, recorded the correct day for the Feast - John 13 vs 1 - 5.

Kobojunkie:
John, however, recorded the correct day for the Feast - John 13 vs 1 - 5.

Like I said, you posted a very long article it would need much reading and understanding

Keys to note
------------------------
■ The First Day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread - Leviticus 23 vs 6 - 8 - was a Holy Day, meaning no work was allowed. God commanded a holy assembly on that day, explaining why there was a gathering of the High priests, the leading priests, Older Jewish leaders, teachers of the law, and the crowds of people gathered for the event that was Jesus Christ's interrogation and crucifixion.
■ The Holy assembly aka Holiday also explains the release of Barnabas to the people by Pilate
■ Due to the Holy assembly, and the fact that no buying or selling, even of burial shrouds and spices, was allowed as a result, all those who died on that day could not be buried until the day after
■ The Holy assembly also explains why the Jewish establishment sort to hand Jesus Christ over to Pilate to be crucified, rather than stone Him to death for blasphemy as was the Jewish Law. They likely did so in order to avoid getting blood on themselves during the Holy assembly.
■ The Holiday also meant no travel, meaning Joseph of Arimathea, who was reported to have arrived in Jerusalem in the evening, by the Gospel of Matthew in Matthew 27 vs 57 - 58, could not have been able to make that journey on the Holy day of God indicating his arrival must have been the day after, not the day of.
■ According to an article on History and Pathology of crucifixions...

...Crucifixion in Roman times was applied mostly to slaves, disgraced soldiers, Christians and foreigners--only very rarely to Roman citizens. Death, usually after 6 hours--4 days, was due to multifactorial pathology: after-effects of compulsory scourging and maiming, haemorrhage and dehydration causing hypovolaemic shock and pain, but the most important factor was progressive asphyxia caused by impairment of respiratory movement. Resultant anoxaemia exaggerated hypovolaemic shock. Death was probably commonly precipitated by cardiac arrest, caused by vasovagal reflexes, initiated inter alia by severe anoxaemia, severe pain, body blows and breaking of the large bones. The attending Roman guards could only leave the site after the victim had died, and were known to precipitate death by means of deliberate fracturing of the tibia and/or fibula, spear stab wounds into the heart, sharp blows to the front of the chest, or a smoking fire built at the foot of the cross to asphyxiate the victim......https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14750495/

It is unheard of for victims to not die on the same day they were nailed to the cross. However, in Jesus Christ's case, we read that He died on the same day, from all 4 accounts.

Kobojunkie:
John, however, recorded the correct day for the Feast - John 13 vs 1 - 5.

I read your link where you suggested that the bible writers are wrong.
Assuming you are right, that affects the bible credibility. It mean we would not depend on it as prove of our beliefs. So what alternate to the bible are you suggesting?

tctrills:
I read your link where you suggested that the bible writers are wrong.
Assuming you are right, that affects the bible credibility. It mean we would not depend on it as prove of our beliefs. So what alternate to the bible are you suggesting?

Nothing changes actually since Scripture was never sold to you as God's Truth, to begin with, so errors are
to be expected.

Kobojunkie:
Nothing changes actually since Scripture was never sold to you as God's Truth, to begin with.

If you really believe that the scripture are not true then why have you based your arguments on a book that is false and what alternatives do you advise.

tctrills:
If you really believe that the scripture are not true then why have you based your arguments on a book that is false and what alternatives do you advise.

I don't base my argument on the book, but instead, on the Word of God Himself, that which God guarantees is without error.

Recall that in order to unravel this as I did, I went back to what God decreed in His Covenant regarding Passover, and what Jesus Christ Himself said of the Passover Feast and His own arrest - the Word of God.

Kobojunkie:
Nothing changes actually since Scripture was never sold to you as God's Truth, to begin with, so errors are
to be expected.

I feel it's a bit dishonest of you to make your arguments out of a book that you don't trust