₦airaland Forum

Every now and then I receive an email or see in this platform a devout Christian who tells me that no one (including, well, me) is able to interpret the Bible correctly without guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Well, I Could point to passage after passage where we'll meaning and clear headed Christians who claim to be given their understanding by the holy spirit provide two three or four contradictory Interpretation of the passage so what is the evidence that the spirit assist in interpretation.

Bart Ehrman.

Is funny. I tell people that, Spiritual understanding is a tactics to prevent people from not making use of their brain/common sense when reading the bible.
⛔ Will spiritual understanding make me to read and understand that, Mary was aware about the type of child she will born. and what he will be according to Luke 1:26-46. And also make me to read and understand that Mary is not aware about what jesus will be or his mission that made her to join her other children in accusing jesus of going crazy/mad that made them to came where jesus is in order to take him away from the public to avoid public & family disgrace. According to Mark 3:20-35

⛔ Will the spiritual understanding make me to read and believe that same John the baptist who confirmed jesus to be the Messiah that lead his two disciples ( Andrew and Phillip) to leave him and follow jesus the said Messiah. According to John 1:29-42. Is the same John the baptist of Matthew who send his disciples to go and ask jesus if he is the Promised Messiah or they should continue to look/wait for another according to Matthew 11:2-3 ........(when you assume both John to be the same you end up with a confused john)

⛔ Will spiritual understanding make me to read and understand that, same Andrew and Phillip who left their Master john because the over heard him calling jesus the Messiah according to John 1-29-42, is the same Andrew and Phillip of Matthew that were unable to remember that Jesus is the Messiah when jesus ask "who do you say I am? And is because he is the Messiah that made them to left their formal master....in John is Andrew who told peter that they have seen the Messiah and jesus is that Messiah. But in Matthew both Andrew and Philip forgot, is now peter whom they told was fast enough to remember that jesus is the Messiah.....����

So funny.

Or maybe there is more than 1 spirit ..

What is a spirit?
What is holiness?

KnownUnknown:
What is a spirit?
What is holiness?

I don't know..

Maxindhouse come and answer

Jesusjnr jump in too

sonmvayina:
Every now and then I receive an email or see in this platform a devout Christian who tells me that no one (including, well, me) is able to interpret the Bible correctly without guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Well, I Could point to passage after passage where we'll meaning and clear headed Christians who claim to be given their understanding by the holy spirit provide two three or four contradictory Interpretation of the passage so what is the evidence that the spirit assist in interpretation.

Bart Ehrman.

When I was a Christian, it was something I used to believe. But now, it just seems like a subtle tactic to claim superiority over other contradictory doctrines. The whole "you need the holy spirit to understand" thing seems more and more absurd when i think about it.

If indeed passages in the bible have some hidden meaning that laymen can't see, and the best understanding would come to those who had said holy spirit, then why distribute the bible? Why should regular people have the bible in the first place?

Why not just simply identify someone with the holy spirit, have them read the bible and then tell us the meaning. Giving the layman copies of the bible just seems counter-intuitive by that logic, since it'll be a breeding ground for confusion.

But of course, I doubt any of them will agree.

sonmvayina:
Is funny. I tell people that, Spiritual understanding is a tactics to prevent people from not making use of their brain/common sense when reading the bible.
⛔ Will spiritual understanding make me to read and understand that, Mary was aware about the type of child she will born. and what he will be according to Luke 1:26-46. And also make me to read and understand that Mary is not aware about what jesus will be or his mission that made her to join her other children in accusing jesus of going crazy/mad that made them to came where jesus is in order to take him away from the public to avoid public & family disgrace. According to Mark 3:20-35

⛔ Will the spiritual understanding make me to read and believe that same John the baptist who confirmed jesus to be the Messiah that lead his two disciples ( Andrew and Phillip) to leave him and follow jesus the said Messiah. According to John 1:29-42. Is the same John the baptist of Matthew who send his disciples to go and ask jesus if he is the Promised Messiah or they should continue to look/wait for another according to Matthew 11:2-3 ........(when you assume both John to be the same you end up with a confused john)

⛔ Will spiritual understanding make me to read and understand that, same Andrew and Phillip who left their Master john because the over heard him calling jesus the Messiah according to John 1-29-42, is the same Andrew and Phillip of Matthew that were unable to remember that Jesus is the Messiah when jesus ask "who do you say I am? And is because he is the Messiah that made them to left their formal master....in John is Andrew who told peter that they have seen the Messiah and jesus is that Messiah. But in Matthew both Andrew and Philip forgot, is now peter whom they told was fast enough to remember that jesus is the Messiah.....����

So funny.

1. Where in the gospels can you show John the Baptist had only two disciples in the entire duration of his ministry?

2. Did Matthew 11 v 2 mention John sent “two disciples” only to Jesus?

3. Matthew 11 v 1 made reference to the twelve disciples of Jesus which includes John’s former disciples - Andrew & Phillip. Does that not tell anyone with a functioning brain that Andrew & Phillip were not among the disciples sent to Jesus? And John the Baptist definitely had more than 2 disciples?


See Matthew 11 v 1-2;

1 After Jesus had finished instructing his twelve disciples, he went on from there to teach and preach in the towns of Galilee.

2 When John, who was in prison, heard about the deeds of the Messiah, he sent his disciples

Some things I read on this platform sha…

sonmvayina:
I don't know..
Maxindhouse come and answer

The HOLY SPIRIT is God's active force!

Holy means Pure as in the brightest so when the Bible say God is Holy it means that He is the source of the brightest idea, thought or opinion! Isaiah 55:8-9

Holy Spirit will help it's bearer to discern thoughts and intentions {Hebrews 4:12} so as to prefer the best approach to handling difficult issues and find a solution!

So to comprehend and practically apply what you read in the messages of a spirit being you need His active force to decipher what He meant in order to get the benefits. Hence in the absence of practical benefits you only read your interpretation will not yield positive result. 2Corinthians 3:6

sonmvayina:
I don't know..

Maxindhouse come and answer

Jesusjnr jump in too

You don't know?

Is that not perhaps where you should have begun?

budaatum:
You don't know?

Is that not perhaps where you should have begun?

Where is the starting point?

sonmvayina:
Where is the starting point?

Defining words, or at least coming to an understanding of what they mean.

People in Jesus time were like we Nigerians, believing what we are told instead of using our own hearts and souls and minds to ask and knock and seek for understanding.

Christians don't usually say this nor know I guess, but the so called Holy Spirit is simply a fancy way of saying your own ability to think and reason for yourself, skills that should be developed.

Same as in the Garden of Eden. God forbid the men who wrote it give Eve a brain and a mind of her own. Hence, the serpent so we don't emulate Eve and think and reason for ourselves.

budaatum:
Defining words, or at least coming to an understanding of what they mean.

People in Jesus time were like we Nigerians, believing what we are told instead of using our own hearts and souls and minds to ask and knock and seek for understanding.

Christians don't usually say this nor know I guess, but the so called Holy Spirit is simply a fancy way of saying your own ability to think and reason for yourself, skills that should be developed.

Same as in the Garden of Eden. God forbid the men who wrote it give Eve a brain and a mind of her own. Hence, the serpent so we don't emulate Eve and think and reason for ourselves.

I don't understand this your blabbing...

What should I take from it?

sonmvayina:
I don't understand this your blabbing...

What should I take from it?

Whatever you want to take out of it, Sonm. You may even ignore and take nothing from it if you want, or you can state what you understand and ask specific questions about the parts you don't understand. The choice is entirely your's.

budaatum:
Whatever you want to take out of it, Sonm. You may even ignore and take nothing from it if you want, or you can state what you understand and ask specific questions about the parts you don't understand. The choice is entirely your's.

Lol, you are not making any sense.

I pointed out Bart Ehrman thought in his latest blog. And why I think he is on the right track. I have seen so called Christian on this forum give different interpretations to the same passages in the Bible. So the question is what is the proof of the holy spirit?

None.


The Torah says Moses to teach it to his people from generation to generation..

sonmvayina:
So the question is what is the proof of the holy spirit?

Before "proof", what is it that is called "the Holy Spirit"?

Please know that I ask this of you specifically because you once said, and we agreed, that these things are not meant, or should not be taken, literally.

budaatum:
Defining words, or at least coming to an understanding of what they mean.

KnownUnknown:
What is a spirit?
What is holiness?

We say things like "the spirit of the law", so it must have a meaning outside religion we can make known between us if we tried.

Holiness is somewhat more pertaining to religion, I think, so we are perhaps less likely to agree on what it might mean. So let me present Paul Tripp to get this conversation going.

budaatum:
We say things like "the spirit of the law", so it must have a meaning outside religion we can make known between us if we tried.

This is not about the “aim or purpose” of a law.
We are also not talking about the spirited efforts of someone doing something with eagerness or passion.
We are also not talking about a person in a good or buoyant mood being in good spirits.
We are also not talking about good alcohol or spirit.
We are talking about the entity called “Spirit” as used in religions or metaphysics. The “Holy Spirit” being an example of this type of entity.

budaatum:
Holiness is somewhat more pertaining to religion, I think, so we are perhaps less likely to agree on what it might mean. So let me present Paul Tripp to get this conversation going.

First Definition: qadowsh (To Cut) - To be holy means to be “cut off”, or separate, from everything else. It means to be in a class of your own, distinct from anything that has ever existed or will ever exist.

I guess Pastor Tripp’s example of a qadowsh being is what he calls “God”.
You know who else is “cut off”? Before we even get to God, please know that Goa, Gob, and Goc are all qadowsh!!

Second Definition: Qadowsh - To be holy means to be entirely morally pure, all the time and in every way possible.

Number 1: The last person in this fucking world that will tell me about “morality” is a white American evangelical. That’s a joke.
Number 2: “Entirely morally pure” doesn’t mean anything.
Number 3: The murderous ethnocentric god of the Jews is not a basis for any sound system of morality.
Number 4: Neither is his alleged cult leader son.

KnownUnknown:
This is not about the “aim or purpose” of a law.
We are also not talking about the spirited efforts of someone doing something with eagerness or passion.
We are also not talking about a person in a good or buoyant mood being in good spirits.
We are also not talking about good alcohol or spirit.
We are talking about the entity called “Spirit” as used in religions or metaphysics. The “Holy Spirit” being an example of this type of entity.

Not, "we are not talking about", Known, since I obviously am. And I am not talking about "The “Holy Spirit” being an example of this type of entity", since I do not think it is an entity. Besides, your question was not asking about a holy spirit but about spirit, for which I do present "spirit of the law".

KnownUnknown:
First Definition: qadowsh (To Cut) - To be holy means to be “cut off”, or separate, from everything else. It means to be in a class of your own, distinct from anything that has ever existed or will ever exist.

I guess Pastor Tripp’s example of a qadowsh being is what he calls “God”.
You know who else is “cut off”? Before we even get to God, please know that Goa, Gob, and Goc are all qadowsh!!

Second Definition: Qadowsh - To be holy means to be entirely morally pure, all the time and in every way possible.

Number 1: The last person in this fucking world that will tell me about “morality” is a white American evangelical. That’s a joke.
Number 2: “Entirely morally pure” doesn’t mean anything.
Number 3: The murderous ethnocentric god of the Jews is not a basis for any sound system of morality.
Number 4: Neither is his alleged cult leader son.

No one is asking you to take what anyone tells you Unknown. I don't take all the God part myself neither, but just asking that we consider the second definition irrespective of all those numbers of yours.

I can for instance claim you are holy if I think you are "entirely morally pure, all the time and in every way possible" even though you might be an atheist, or can I not?

That after all has been my point with what you call my fake lie Parable of the Holy Orangutan. The Samaritan in the Jesus parable I parody was after all more of a pagan than a God believer, yet Jesus said, "Go and be Holy like the Samaritan has been", as opposed to like the assumed holy Levite and priest.

If the holy Spirit is needed to understand the Bible, it makes no sense for Christians to be giving it out to unbelievers.

1Sharon:
If the holy Spirit is needed to understand the Bible, it makes no sense for Christians to be giving it out to unbelievers.

it doesn't need

1Sharon:
If the holy Spirit is needed to understand the Bible, it makes no sense for Christians to be giving it out to unbelievers.

The claim isn't scriptural, to begin with.

Ebukaboss:
it doesn't need

What doesn't need?

Kobojunkie:
The claim isn't scriptural, to begin with.

You'll need to take it up with them.

1Sharon:
What doesn't need?

what u post

sonmvayina:
Every now and then I receive an email or see in this platform a devout Christian who tells me that no one (including, well, me) is able to interpret the Bible correctly without guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Well, I Could point to passage after passage where we'll meaning and clear headed Christians who claim to be given their understanding by the holy spirit provide two three or four contradictory Interpretation of the passage so what is the evidence that the spirit assist in interpretation.

Bart Ehrman.

First, that is the beautifully powerfilled engine of the Bible. Most books written by men have one or at most 2
or maybe 3 interpretations and after that it is finished.

But this is where the Bible proves that it is not Written by men. It's Words pursue every living situation in which men find themselves to guide them and since man's living is diverse, therefore, there is no end of interpretation.

Hence the value of the song we used to sing when we were young

Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of his holiness.

Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King. Psalm 48:1–2

And it is The Holy Spirit who takes a person to These Holy Words fitted for his situation.

That is how it works!

That is why people can read the Bible from front to back, many many times but they will not get much out of it, without The Spirit's Leading and Guidance. Reading a novel is more profitable to them. That is how God made it to work!

God is a spirit {John 4:24} while we are mortal men, His thoughts are far too high for humans {Isaiah 55:8-9} so we need God's Active Force to rightly interpret what God says {John 14:26} we shouldn't forget that the main purpose of God's word is for mankind's benefits {Isaiah 1:18; 48:17-18} so instead of arguing fruitlessly on whose interpretation appeals to our brains why not put each interpretation to use so we can all SEE which is yielding positive results: BENEFITS? Matthew 7:16-18

If you gather scientists from different races to argue on scientific terms surely the Chinese will not even be considered, WHY? Because they can't even speak English with fluency so in what way are they going to make sense with their "Chi Chun Chon" language?

But let's allow all the nations to put their theories to work that's when everyone will know who is more advanced in scientific discoveries.

The same approach should be applied on God's word!