AreaFada2:


We Benins are not even claiming anybody. We just say what history says. Does anybody admitting or denying that they migrated from Benin puts food on your table or removes money from your account? No, it doesn't! In fact, I would like Edo State population to grow big enough that Edo State can be divided. Benin/Edo State and Edo Central & North can form their own State. Internal cohesion is vital for development. The more homogeneous a State is, the better long term.

Since Delta State was created, there is more distance between Edo People and Urhobo, Isoko and Itsekhiri. At some point in the future, all can decide if they want to co-operate or not.

With gradual distancing, co-operation will be more a matter of genuine desire to do so or forever let it be.

IgbuduMonkey:
The Itsekiris bear Yoruba names and if you are not told would assume them to be Yoruba. Infact, it was recently I discovered that Bola Tinubu's wife, Sen. Oluremi Tinubu is Itsekiri. Most people do not know that the singer, Omawunmi is Itsekiri and many struggled to understand how popular Big Brother Naija contestant, Omatshola isn't Yoruba. Despite the language similarity, no Itsekiri man will tell you that he is Yoruba. And it's true, they are not Yorubas.
Like the people of Aboh, the Itsekiri people are of diverse origin, the earliest settlers from Ijebu while later settlers came from Igala, Bini, Aboh(yes, same Aboh. Note that there are also Itsekiri settlers in Aboh). The Bini party led by a Bini prince would later establish a monarchy. You notice the similarity in the founding of Aboh already?
The Itsekiri area is a port region hence witnessed a lot of immigration at those times when they were not yet a kingdom. Such places later organize themselves under a ruler(kingdom) with diverse people. It is impossible at that time to identify themselves as being people of the initial settlers(in the case of Itsekiri, the Yorubas, and in the case of Aboh, the Igbos) because of the diversity of the people, in which case the later immigrants would be more than the original settlers and the culture an admix.
Like I said, I know why it's difficult to understand
PS: Asaba is thriving because of the prowess of a certain Maryam, wife of the dictator, IBB that made it capital of Delta State. Aboh declined because of the colonial interference in the trade system of the lower Niger. As I have said before in other threads, the Igbos are perhaps the biggest beneficiaries of colonialism in Africa

YungMillionaire:


We are Yorubas by lineage - simple and straight forward. Mostly Ijebu. Our connection with Bini is entirely due to the connection between Yoruba and Bini. And this Bini connection is mostly cultural not genetic. Less than 50 years ago, there were still old Itshekiri people who talk about visiting grandparents in Lagos and Ogun state.

Now, does an average Itshekiri have more in common with Urhobos than Yorubas in the SW? Yes. Cultural, inter-marriage rates etc. But that is not the issue at hand. The question is where did we originate from? We originate 100% from Yoruba people.

The talk of mixture is silly. The key is the original Itshekiri stock that gave birth to who we are today today - is a Yoruba stock. Even the name ITSHEKIRI is 100% Yoruba. We are from Ijebu land - a wa ni awon to wa ise kiri.

The reason why some Itshekiris don't speak up (soro soke) is because of the politics of Delta. They think the Ijaws/Urhobos will use it against us and our rightful claim in Niger Delta. Same thing happening to the Olukumis in Anioma - hiding their 100% Yoruba lineage to avoid been marginalization by the majority Igbo.

IgbuduMonkey:
The Itsekiris bear Yoruba names and if you are not told would assume them to be Yoruba. Infact, it was recently I discovered that Bola Tinubu's wife, Sen. Oluremi Tinubu is Itsekiri. Most people do not know that the singer, Omawunmi is Itsekiri and many struggled to understand how popular Big Brother Naija contestant, Omatshola isn't Yoruba. Despite the language similarity, no Itsekiri man will tell you that he is Yoruba. And it's true, they are not Yorubas.
Like the people of Aboh, the Itsekiri people are of diverse origin, the earliest settlers from Ijebu while later settlers came from Igala, Bini, Aboh(yes, same Aboh. Note that there are also Itsekiri settlers in Aboh). The Bini party led by a Bini prince would later establish a monarchy. You notice the similarity in the founding of Aboh already?
The Itsekiri area is a port region hence witnessed a lot of immigration at those times when they were not yet a kingdom. Such places later organize themselves under a ruler(kingdom) with diverse people. It is impossible at that time to identify themselves as being people of the initial settlers(in the case of Itsekiri, the Yorubas, and in the case of Aboh, the Igbos) because of the diversity of the people, in which case the later immigrants would be more than the original settlers and the culture an admix.
Like I said, I know why it's difficult to understand
PS: Asaba is thriving because of the prowess of a certain Maryam, wife of the dictator, IBB that made it capital of Delta State. Aboh declined because of the colonial interference in the trade system of the lower Niger. As I have said before in other threads, the Igbos are perhaps the biggest beneficiaries of colonialism in Africa

Igboid:
The Ibos, or 'Eboes' of American tales, are even more divided; still they
feel and act upon the principle 'Union is strength.'[b]This large and savage
tribe, whose headquarters are at Abo, about the head of the Nigerian
delta, [/b]musters strong at Sá Leone; here they are the Swiss of the
community; the Kruboys, and further south the Kabenda-men being the
'Paddies.' It is popularly said that while the Aku will do anything for
money, the Ibo will do anything for revenge. Both races are astute in the
extreme and intelligent enough to work harm. Unhappily, their talents
rarely take the other direction. In former days they had faction-fights:
the second eastern district witnessed the last serious disturbance in
1834. Now they do battle under the shadow of the law. 'Aku constables will
not, unless in extreme cases, take up their delinquent countrymen, nor
will an Ebo constable apprehend an Ebo thief; and so on through all the
different tribes,' says the lady 'Resident of Sierra Leone.' If the
majority of the jury be Akus, they will unhesitatingly find the worst of
Aku criminals innocent, and the most innocent of whites, Ibos, or Timnis
guilty. The Government has done its best to weld all those races into one,
and has failed. Many, however, are becoming Moslems, as at Lagos, and this
change may have a happier effect by introducing the civilisation of
El-Islam.

UGBE634:
I am for purity too,but the truth must be said. Edo is already big enough for division, it was to be divided in 1996, the Benins on their own, Esan and Afemai on their own. The Otaru of Auchi was already intimidated by the population of Binis and asked for a separate state but for Anenih that thwarted the plan.Edo state cannot be less than 8,000,000 with the Binis about half the population of the state.

Edo was rated 3,000,000 in 2006 with obviously smaller states such as Osun and Ondo being giving 4, million as figures and Edo was rated 24 largest in terms of population in 2006, this same Edo did number 16 in terms of voters registration in the country in 2019 trumping both Ondo and Osun with about 400,000 and 600,000 respectively with even a lot of unregistered voters everywhere. though the other just conducted her state election.

Go on youtube, search for Itv and see people in various registration centres not registered. With the present registration, it should be about 14 highest and people are still not registered in large numbers, if it is to reduce Obi's vote in Edo, I don't know. In the Otaru's words, he said Edo south was big enough to stand alone
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://guardian.ng/sunday-magazine/otaru-of-auchi-how-we-lost-out-in-the-bid-to-create-afemesan-state/&ved=2ahUKEwjpk5Ot_OL0AhWNxYUKHfaDDmoQFnoECAQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0LaFfDTyS-rnpL90Yyv0Qu

Christistruth00:



Itsekiri are Of Yoruba Stock
Itsekiri is a recognised dialect of Yoruba






https://www.vanguardngr.com/2022/03/olu-of-warri-visits-abiodun-predicts-oil-discovery-in-ogun/

AreaFada2:


We Benins are not even claiming anybody. We just say what history says. Does anybody admitting or denying that they migrated from Benin puts food on your table or removes money from your account? No, it doesn't! In fact, I would like Edo State population to grow big enough that Edo State can be divided. Benin/Edo State and Edo Central & North can form their own State. Internal cohesion is vital for development. The more homogeneous a State is, the better long term.

Since Delta State was created, there is more distance between Edo People and Urhobo, Isoko and Itsekhiri. At some point in the future, all can decide if they want to co-operate or not.

With gradual distancing, co-operation will be more a matter of genuine desire to do so or forever let it be.

Igboid:


Itsekiri has always been a separate entity from Yoruba.
Never in history were Itsekiri called Eastern Yoruba!
So you comparison between Aboh and Itsekiri is like comparing apples and oranges.
Infact, Aboh was perhaps the first place called Igbo by the colonial masters.
The colonials assumed Aboh to be the capital of Igboland and Eze Obi Ossai the then king of Aboh as the overall king Eboes.
Eze Obi Ossai claimed his people were Ibos and that Igboland extended further East of the Niger.
So your comparison of the issue between Igbo and Aboh with that of Itsekiri is false.
The right comparison would be that between "Okpe" and Urhobo!

There are no Bini led Party that established anything in Aboh. Those things are mere fables concocted by ancestors for whatever political expediency they were facing at that point in time.
None of Aboh founders had a Bini name. Essumai, Ogwaezi,Etim,Osu-mili, etc all are Igbo names, not one Aboh village bears Bini or any non Igbo name.

How exactly did Igboland benefit most from colonialisation?
You are ridiculous. We lost our population and had the British mess up our clans.

Aboh declined because they were hostile to the colonials, so the missionaries moved the capital to Asaba.
Yes Asaba is thriving from Delta State capital made possible by Maryam. But on the private sector, Asaba is benefitting hugely from the local Onitsha business community. Who are investing massively in Asaba, and this wouldn't have happened if Asagba of Asaba isn't totally Igbophilic and a champion of Pan Igbo Unity, unlike those on Aboh still Rolling in Bini origin fable tales.

Igboid:


Itsekiri has always been a separate entity from Yoruba.
Never in history were Itsekiri called Eastern Yoruba!
So you comparison between Aboh and Itsekiri is like comparing apples and oranges.
Infact, Aboh was perhaps the first place called Igbo by the colonial masters.
The colonials assumed Aboh to be the capital of Igboland and Eze Obi Ossai the then king of Aboh as the overall king Eboes.
Eze Obi Ossai claimed his people were Ibos and that Igboland extended further East of the Niger.
So your comparison of the issue between Igbo and Aboh with that of Itsekiri is false.
The right comparison would be that between "Okpe" and Urhobo!

There are no Bini led Party that established anything in Aboh. Those things are mere fables concocted by ancestors for whatever political expediency they were facing at that point in time.
None of Aboh founders had a Bini name. Essumai, Ogwaezi,Etim,Osu-mili, etc all are Igbo names, not one Aboh village bears Bini or any non Igbo name.

How exactly did Igboland benefit most from colonialisation?
You are ridiculous. We lost our population and had the British mess up our clans.

Aboh declined because they were hostile to the colonials, so the missionaries moved the capital to Asaba.
Yes Asaba is thriving from Delta State capital made possible by Maryam. But on the private sector, Asaba is benefitting hugely from the local Onitsha business community. Who are investing massively in Asaba, and this wouldn't have happened if Asagba of Asaba isn't totally Igbophilic and a champion of Pan Igbo Unity, unlike those on Aboh still Rolling in Bini origin fable tales.

IgbuduMonkey:
The Igbos did not venture out of their homeland for commerce before colonialism.

IgbuduMonkey:
First of all, I believe you know that the people of Aboh acknowledge that they are not the original settlers of the town known as Aboh today. The people displaced by the Abohs, the Akarais are also known. It is therefore a historical fact that the ruling aristocracy of Aboh came from somewhere else. Our contention now is where? The people that remember accurately that they came from elsewhere and also have a correct memory of those they displaced, should also know from where they came.

The Itsekiri story mirrors that of Aboh in that they were both port towns, mixed communities, decentralized communities that later adopted a central rule.

Making any town capital of a state will sure boost the private sector there. Asaba has not even lived up to it's full potential as a state capital of one of the richest state in Nigeria

AjaanaOka:

These days I prefer to be an onlooker on NL, but everytime I see people make this particular or similar comments, I can't help but want to say something. It's frustrating that despite the strides that have been taken since the '70s in the area of Igbo studies, despite what scholars now know about their involvement in long-range commerce (See for example, David Northrup's classic "Trade without Rulers", Nairalanders continue to repeat the nonsense that Igbos did not move out of their homeland before colonialism.

The vast majority of Igbos were subsistence farmers, and as such were not very mobile. But everyone who knows the first thing about precolonial Igbo history knows that clans and towns which specialized in long-distance travelling for the purpose of trade, medical practice or craftsmanship were developed among the Igbo.

The Awka, the Nkwerre, the Abiriba, the Aku of the Nsukka area, the Aro, et cetera, all ventured beyond the borders of what we recognize today as Igboland, plying their trade and practising their craft.

UGBE634:
I am for purity too,but the truth must be said. Edo is already big enough for division, it was to be divided in 1996, the Benins on their own, Esan and Afemai on their own. The Otaru of Auchi was already intimidated by the population of Binis and asked for a separate state but for Anenih that thwarted the plan.Edo state cannot be less than 8,000,000 with the Binis about half the population of the state.

Edo was rated 3,000,000 in 2006 with obviously smaller states such as Osun and Ondo being giving 4, million as figures and Edo was rated 24 largest in terms of population in 2006, this same Edo did number 16 in terms of voters registration in the country in 2019 trumping both Ondo and Osun with about 400,000 and 600,000 respectively with even a lot of unregistered voters everywhere. though the other just conducted her state election.

Igboid:


Aboh is not the only Igbo speaking town where one Igbo clan fought and displaced another.
Why are you hyping on it?
Both the Akarai and the Aboh are all Igbo clans.
Aboh has always been Igbo speakers, we know this from their name "Aboh-ji" meaning Yam basket, and the name of their founders, all were Igbo words, not one single Bini word.
Abiriba people also met Igbo speaking groups in their current location who they fought and displaced.
The land Aro ndi izuogu in Imo state is founded on belongs to a different Igbo group who the Aros fought and displaced.
Fights between Igbo clans for territories were norm in the past, what Happened in Aboh between Aboh people and Akarai people was simply a norm and not an exception.
It's not same thing with your Itsekiri or whatever.
There is no historical fact about claiming that a man named Essumai, whose son was named Ogwaezi, who gave his first son the name Ogwaezi, was anything else other than an Igbo speaking man and couldn't have come from any non Igbo speaking land! This is common sense. That history of Essumai being of Bini origin is a historical distortion because it fails the test of logic.
My bet is that Essumai was an Agbor man who fail out of power in Agbor and didn't want his new kingdom to be an appendage to Agbor, hence he spinned the Bini origin story.
It is akin to what Ikwerres who wanted to regain control of PH from their Igbo cousins did post 1970. They wanted to be free from Enugu control, hence why Elechi Amadi came up with the Bini origin story for Ikwerre. They were simply following a template Aboh had laid down.

History is science and subject to logic.
A man with Igbo sounding name, who gave his child an Igbo name and named his new town in Igbo, obviously spoke no other language but Igbo.
Unless they spoke and bore Igbo names and language in ancient Bini, Aboh founder didn't come from Bini. It's common sense.

IgbuduMonkey:
My narration of Aboh displacement of the Akarais is not for the hype but for the purpose of making it undeniably clear that the
Abohs came from elsewhere to their present location.

Esumei Uku is said to have had 2 sons, Ogwezi and Ugbo. Ogwezi and three of his sons, Ojugbeli, Ozegbe and Ossai, constitute the ruling houses of Aboh. Ugbo, Ozegbe and Ossai are clearly Edoid. Another fact you habe to have in mind is the naming pattern in those days. Many people were known by nicknames then which stuck. Infact, Aboh has a unique culture of greeting people with a greeting name which is unique to each individual. Thos name eventually becomes more popular than the persons given name. It is possible that some of these Igbo names were given by the people living there who were clearly Igbo speakers.

Note also that Oputa Uku, the founder of Ozoro is said to be the brother of Esumei Uku. Going by your argument, are the Ozoro people Igbos?

RedboneSmith:


Excuse me. You say Ugbo, Ozegbe and Ossai are clearly Edoid.

Ozegbe, I know to be Edo, meaning patience.
Ugbo is a shared word meaning farm in both Igbo and Edo. Both languages are related Niger-Congo languages and share a good number of words in common. It cannot be taken for granted therefore that the Ugbo in question indicates Edoid roots.

Now, how did you come to the conclusion that Ossai is an Edo word? This is a name/word that exists as Ossai/Ohai/Osayi across a number of Igbo-speaking spaces (including Nsukka in the East) and which also penetrated Igala as Ochayi.
According to an Igbo dictionary by professor Echeruo, it means Juju.

Can you explain what it means in Edoid and also find one Benin/Edo person who answers Ossai.

AjaanaOka:

These days I prefer to be an onlooker on NL, but everytime I see people make this particular or similar comments, I can't help but want to say something. It's frustrating that despite the strides that have been taken since the '70s in the area of Igbo studies, despite what scholars now know about their involvement in long-range commerce (See for example, David Northrup's classic "Trade without Rulers", Nairalanders continue to repeat the nonsense that Igbos did not move out of their homeland before colonialism.

The vast majority of Igbos were subsistence farmers, and as such were not very mobile. But everyone who knows the first thing about precolonial Igbo history knows that clans and towns which specialized in long-distance travelling for the purpose of trade, medical practice or craftsmanship were developed among the Igbo.

The Awka, the Nkwerre, the Abiriba, the Aku of the Nsukka area, the Aro, et cetera, all ventured beyond the borders of what we recognize today as Igboland, plying their trade and practising their craft.

UGBE634:
We bear Osayi strongly but I don't know of Ossai and it means God create

The etymology is this Osa ore yi- which means na God dae create or na God create

UGBE634:
We bear Osayi strongly but I don't know of Ossai and it means God create

The etymology is this Osa ore yi- which means na God dae create or na God create

IgbuduMonkey:
My narration of Aboh displacement of the Akarais is not for the hype but for the purpose of making it undeniably clear that the
Abohs came from elsewhere to their present location.

Esumei Uku is said to have had 2 sons, Ogwezi and Ugbo. Ogwezi and three of his sons, Ojugbeli, Ozegbe and Ossai, constitute the ruling houses of Aboh. Ugbo, Ozegbe and Ossai are clearly Edoid. Another fact you habe to have in mind is the naming pattern in those days. Many people were known by nicknames then which stuck. Infact, Aboh has a unique culture of greeting people with a greeting name which is unique to each individual. Thos name eventually becomes more popular than the persons given name. It is possible that some of these Igbo names were given by the people living there who were clearly Igbo speakers.

Note also that Oputa Uku, the founder of Ozoro is said to be the brother of Esumei Uku. Going by your argument, are the Ozoro people Igbos?

Igboid:

Ugbo Ozegbe and Ossai are not Edo names.

Ugbo means farm or boat in Igbo depending on pronunciation.
Essumai two sons are Ugbo( farm) and Ogwaezi ( home founded on the road).
Both are Igbo names.
The children of Ogwaezi who constitute the rulling house of Aboh are "Ojugbeli, Ossai, and Ozegbe.
Only Ozegbe sound Bini there, and who knows, Ozegbe might actually be a shared word between Agbor ( where I suspect to be hometown of Essumai) and Bini.
E.A Iduwe stated that the few words Agbor share with Bini were as a result of both Bini and Ika absorbing the ancient Oza people.
So it might be simplistic to assume that Ozegbe is a Bini name, when Ika bear it as well.
Aboh got it from Ika.

I should be posing the Opute of Ozoro question to you.
Igbos have never played the ancestry game. It's common sense that Oputa settled in Isoko dominated land and hence he and his Descendants naturally lost their Igbo language as it should. They are now Isokos just like Igbide people who left Igboland to assimilate as Isokos today as well. Igbos respect Isokos and don't go about talking about Isoko being a hybrid of Igbo and should not be called Isoko.

Apart from Opute, there was also Etim and Osu-mili who accompanied Essumai on the journey from where I believe to be Agborvand and not Bini. They all ventured into Isoko dominated territories and lost their language.

UGBE634:
I might just think you are delusional, Oza is one of those Bini group that left Bini to seek protection under Agbor, there is no word that is Edo in Agbor that Ika people can interprete. There is nothing like a shared word, it is a borrowed word 100%. How will Benin absorb Oza people, guy stop speaking on these issues, you sound delusional, Oza is at best a dialect of Bini and the closest for that matter, we can stake a bet maybe we see real life, there is nothing an Oza man will say that I a Bini man will not comprehend, We have a different version of that history, Oza is an offshoot of Bini. They ran away to Agbor for protection because they offended the Oba at the time. Oza Aibiokunla consider themselves full Binis I don't know about nogogo. If they do or do not, they are! Chris Idahosa, a music maestro in Benin, Fabomo, Richard Ugiagbe, Stanley Iyonawan, Naomi Ehigie, and others are from Oza, and they are music maestros in Benin in the Bini native tongue. Infact they make up the largest chunk of Edo music.

Igboid:


Well, Binis have had the audacity to tell Western Igbo history and even Eastern Igbo one through their Edo tinted glasses, so much that Ndiigbo have been forced to start telling Edo and Bini stories through our own glasses.
What is good for the goose is also good for the gander.

Bini to me is a mixture of different groups. Bini is a hybrid relatively new ethnic group made up of indigenous Edoid tribes which includes the Oza, Esan, etc. Some migrant Igbo clans, Ijaw, and the rulling class which is of Yoruba origin, there is also some sprinkle of Portuguese there as well.
That's Bini for you.
It not a single ethnic group. It's an amalgam, heck they are still speaking Yoruba in Usen, Igbo(Ika) in places outside Igbanke like Owariuzo etc, and Ijaw in Olodiama, and all these places are still considered part of Bini ethnicity.

Here is what Agbor historian Chief E.A Iduwe had to say about Agbor and Bini relationship with Ozara people.
You are up in arms at my suggestion that Oza are independent from Bini according to Ika history,your argument is that it can't be since Bini and Oza speak mutually intelligible language, but you have no problem when your mischievous brothers run amok telling us how Aboh and parts of Anioma despite being Igbo speaking are not Igbo.
Talk about dishing out what you guys can't take.


Well, here is what Agbor historian, E.A Iduwe had to say about Ozara.

UGBE634:
guy your idea about what Bini is is messed up. We don't consider Olodiama and Owa-riuzo as Binis, we consider Usen Bini because of Some Factors, these factors are 1. They speak Bini alongside with their dialect. 2. They did not migrate to Bini today, they migrated alongside with the Oba, and they have a family mode of greeting, which is Lahuihe, to show they migrated from Ife, there are seventy four families in Benin, each or most greet in a certain way.
3. They celebrate the Igue festival. These are what cement a man as a Bini. You must have a family greeting, you speak the tongue, then your community must celebrate Igue festival.

I have discussed that Esan before, I don't intend going back there. Esan, Oza are all dialects of Benin and they migrated from Benin. There is no group that did not receive migrant precolonially, The Oba and his family has been submerged into the large Edo sea they met and today Edo speaking. Benin is not an amalgam of groups, we received immigrants, quite alright, but they are in the super minority and they all submerged in the large Edo indigenous sea they met on ground

Igboid:


So why do your Bini brothers not apply the same principles as the above when they start meddling devilishly into Western Igbo issues telling us they're no longer Igbos despite their Igbo language, because of few insignificant and irrelevant non Igbo migrants into the area that were drowned by the sea of indigenous Igbo speaking population they met?

Why would Bini people not let Ndiigbo in the SE and our brothers in Anioma discuss our in-house issues in peace without trying to meddle? If you were Igbo, wouldn't you find the Edo interference into Igbo speaking territories provocative?

UGBE634:
I consider Ika igbo, I am a realist.

UGBE634:
I consider Ika igbo, I am a realist.

UGBE634:
I consider Ika igbo, I am a realist.

samuk:


You have to be careful, being a realist doesn't mean one should negate the facts. Ika will be Igbo if they say so themselves. I recently listened to Atiku Abubakar referring to the entire south as being populated by Igbo and yoruba people. Are you Igbo or yoruba? To the average Northerners, a Southeasterner is either Igbo or yoruba. To the average Southeasterner, all Northerners are Hausa, it's this over simplification that gave birth to the WaZoBia fallacy were everything Nigeria is seen from the tripod of Hausa, yoruba and Igbo.

As advanced has the United Kingdom, they never accept one ethnicity. The Scottish, Welsh and Irish guard their cultural heritage jealously, they even maintain separate national sporting teams and Parliaments. This is the way Nigeria should go. Majority of Ika and Ikwerre don't see themselves as Igbo.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3ANmx2mhOU