₦airaland Forum

AndSunGorilla:
Now that Morocco is playing the 3rd place as the surprise team, I hope they don't go the route of other recent dark horses like Turkey, South Korea, Bulgaria, Costa Rica but rather be like their opponents today Croatia in being able to repeat this feat again and stay relevant.

Marjoribanks:
Croatia 1 Morrocco 1 Oracle say so!
Both teams do not score a lot.

benji93:
Your prediction has been correct so far. Let's see if it ages well.

Marjoribanks:
El The Morrocans exploits and the discrimination/abuse witnessed by Saka pre Euro and World Cup will definitely impact the decisions of some FB players in England to choose their country of origin. Nkethia, Eze, Adarabioyo, and many more might follow soon!

TheGoodJoe:
Watch how both sides are good at keeping the ball and moving it. With the growth of possession heavy game, you must build a team of players that are gifted in passing and keeping the ball.

Both sides have been a delight to watch. Amarabat remains my player of the tournament. So gifted with the ball in tight spaces.

We can't expect to excel if we don't field exceptional players gifted with the ball and incredible with passing.

Those managing the team need to carry out a continuous comprehensive scouting if we intend to excel.

Marjoribanks:
Why play football if you don't intend to keep the ball? All teams play to keep the ball, the difference is that some teams are better at it than others. Which country or club play football without wanting to keep the ball. The reason why most are against tiki Taka is cos they don't allow the other team to keep the ball. Whenever the tikitaka team looses the ball, they press you with 3 or more players to recover the ball back immediately or foul the opponent players while the tikitaka team just passes the ball around in a very boring way.

jihday:
Dele-Bashiru start and assist first goal for watford while Ekong is only good enough for the bench

TheGoodJoe:


That is what I am explaining. Instead of hating a team because they are good at keeping the ball, boost our team to become better at keeping the ball.

This mean players with stamina, skill on the ball, intelligence in passing and ability to hit vital passes.

I am saying we need to improve our scouting and development program.

We can't keep the ball if we keep going with players that are not comfortable with the ball. If our players are not well versed in the passing game and if they lack the ability to make incisive and creative passes.

Danielnino00:
It's about time we move away from Ekong as our starting CB.. Akpogunma,Awazeim, Ajayi and even Bassey are better options...

Danielnino00:
It's about time we move away from Ekong as our starting CB.. Akpogunma,Awazeim, Ajayi and even Bassey are better options...

Danielnino00:
It's about time we move away from Ekong as our starting CB.. Akpogunma,Awazeim, Ajayi and even Bassey are better options...

Danielnino00:
It's about time we move away from Ekong as our starting CB.. Akpogunma,Awazeim, Ajayi and even Bassey are better options...

You are the one missing the point of what is being debated. You said a whole lot of misinformation which I had to correct so ofcos you would be lost in trying to reply it all.

And not everything my dad gave me is on the internet today. Not everything. My dad had tapes/recordings of some of Pele's club games. These, I could not find on the internet. So don't try so hard to be smart about what you clearly don't know. You don't know the half of what My dad passed down to me when I was a boy. Just stick to what you know aiit.

The only second hand info I see here is you only using peripheral contexts of history to have a Pele discussion which is again why I pick more holes in all you have stated, several of which are irrelevant as usual.

And you missed it on Garrincha in 1966. Read on and you will see your faux pas. Ofcos I expected a rebuttal but ofcos it is a disjointed one. One still doing its best to avoid the truth and face the central point.

And Pele's 3 WC wins aren't overrated as you claim. Infact you are confused. How can you to claim to not call Pele overrated yet you are here trying so hard to label his World Cup Achievements as Overrated when you know those World Cup wins are tied strongly to the Greatness of the man.

You think you are so smart. Lol.... You literally want to water down his achievements yet still want us thinking you actually rate the man as a GOAT player. Bro... No dey disguise abeg.

FYI, Pele was crowned best young player of the 1958 WC. That was more than enough proof to show his insane impact in that tournament. He was 17. They weren't gonna give the Best player of the Senior WC tournament to a legally underage boy even when he was clearly the overall best.

Like I already said, Didi became World Renowned after his showing at the 1958 WC. A case similar to Sofyan at this year's WC. So ofcos, he was rightly recognised at the WC. But the world conceeded it wasn't Didi's WC. It was Pele's. It was the beginning of a Legend that have lived on till this day UNSURPASSED.

And the point of them not being stars-studded in 1958 still stands. Brazil went into a that tournament a battered force no thanks to their 1950 failure and their misadventure in 1954 losing to the Mighty Magyars and guess what, Didi was in that 1954 Squad that failed.

You make it look like Didi was more important but he couldn't even do it without Pele in 1954. Pele was still 13 anyway. Ofcos he was too young to help.

Brazil won 1962 without Pele's impact which stopped at the 2nd game no thanks to Injury. Garrincha did in the KOs in 1962 exactly what Maradona did in the KOs for Argentina in 1986. Both recorded similar stats leading their nations to WC Glory.

For 1962, I already clearly stated that it was mostly Garrincha but with Pele leading the way before his injury.

For 1958 and 1970... it was Pele. And that is Undisputed. I don't have to speak too much again on 1970. You can even use Sofascore to help yourself.

Didi and Jairzinho were not bigger influences in both campaigns. Pele was the Man. The Main Man.

Till now, None greater or better have emerged. Pele is Undisputed.

Johannes Cruyff, Ferenc Puskas, Franz Beckenbauer, Ronaldo, Zico, Bobby Moore, Bobby Charlton, Fontaine, Platini, etc... have all testified to Pele's GOAT of GOATs status.

Argentines like Cesar Luis Menotti, Hugo Gatti, Jorge Valdano (who played alongside Maradona) all say Pelé is incomparable, the most complete player in history and the greatest of all time.

Now, to add more flavor to my point on Pele's undisputed status as the Carrier of his Brazilian Sides especially in 1958 and 1970, France Football singled him out for a Ballon Dor win in both those World Cup years... Check below.

For 1962, it rightly went to Garrincha. In 1961, It was Pele which buttressed an earlier point made that Pele indeed came into the 1962 WC as the Undisputed Best in the World. But 1962 WC eventually became Garrincha's WC.... The Greateat Dribbler and Wing Wizard in football history.

So in a nutshell....

1954 - Didi and co played... No Pele... Brazil faltered.

1958 - Pele's first WC, Didi and Garrincha present but Pele was clearly the Main Talisman.

1962 - Pele came into the Tournament as the Undisputed Best Player on the planet but injury stopped him in Game 2 and Garrincha took over and clearly owned that World cup tournament.

1966 - Pele and Garrincha played the first game and scored. But Pele missed the 2nd game due to injury. Garrincha played that 2nd game and they lost.

This was also Tostao's and Jairzinho's Debut WCs

And in the 3rd game, hate it or despise it... Pele was kicked throughout the game and Portugal won. GARRINCHA DIDNT PLAY because HE WAS BLOODY DROPPED. There was also no substitutions back then in 1966 Check the fifa and Guardian articles below the Ballon dor graphics below this post.

1970 - Pele returns and He again was the Main Man.

1974 - No Pele. He has retired... Jairzinho, Rivellino and co couldn't do it.

Below is also the summary of Pele's Dominant Years in Ballon Dor marks... Pele is Undisputed. Finito.... and do yourself some more reading on that era. You are again Welcome.

mostob:
Nobody is against keeping the ball. What we are on about is PURPOSE. What is the use of keeping the ball without scoring? I will take -100% possession with a win rather than 100% possession with a lose or a draw.

elyte89:
Those guys u mentioned are not better,u only prefer d names ,I have seen akpoguma enuf in eagles jersey,he’s just dere and for bassey I will prefer he maintains his. Lb position cos what I saw during Algeria,a good team with a sharp striker will punish us severely,he’s good no doubt but he’s not calm ,cbs are known for been calm and calculative in deir positioning and marking to avoid unnecessary mistakes and cards...odas mentioned too are not better Dan d poor ekong..we seriously need a new cv pairing...d only person dt gives me d confidence in dt defense is still d aging balogun.

Samueltemi337:
Balogun gives you confidence in defence

elyte89:
Yes na, u go talk who Dey give u ur own confidence na,abi crime Dey dere

benji93:
All you have done is talk a dribble around yourself in your bid to maintain your subtle playdown stance on Pele's impact across his 3 WC wins.

How did i misinform anyone? You are the one bringing in facts that are not relevant to the subject. I never mentioned Santos, you brought it up. I never said that South Americans playing in South America was a bad thing, but you suggested that that was my position. If something is not clear ask. It's ok. My entire argument was centered on 'he won three world cups narrative', making it seem as if he was overwhelmingly the best player in those tournaments. But there was at least one player who was close in contribution. Maybe even better as decided by the football journalists in 1958. This was my argument. Not Santos, Not anything else.

It's never useful to bring relatives into an argument. You should no better. But I'll make an exception. We'll admit those files into evidence. Nobody is a kid here. I challenge you. Present files that are not available on the internet today. I am waiting. I won't fall for, you don't know half blablabla. Either you do or you don't. Very simple.
Do not assume you know more than the other person, especially if you don't know them. It's never useful. Quite strange someone who calls himself a researcher takes such a stance. Do better.

Peripheral? I am telling you what Fifa says. No be me manufacture info. This is my challenge. Can you present any information about anything that happened at that 1958 world cup that cannot be found on the internet?
You have been dodging the points I have made. You are not addressing my points head-on.

Ok. Always throwing small jabs.

Won't be overrated if you remember to mention that they won one without him cos he was injured. It was unfortunate, but it was a fact. If that didn't happen, we would be having a different conversation. His injury pointed out something about that team. It tells us the team was star-studded.
And please stop the 'you are confused' phrase. It's not useful. Most folks that use it do so out of frustration. Present your points, and let the other person present his. No need for phrases meant to make you seem smarter than the other person. Disagreements happen. Even the most reknowned experts of history differ on these kind of arguments. No be fight. Pele is probably not related to any of us.

I am actually very smart. No caps. . His exploits at Santos dey now. No be only world cup him play for now. You clearly saw that i ignored Santos in my first post. You should have wondered why. Nobody can argue Santos and win. Just like European teams dominate today, Santos was one of the teams that dominated then. The narrative has always been, oh he won 3 world cups, and they won't tell you his teams had some incredible players, so incredible that they won one without him.

Thank you for the information. The last time I checked Fifa still has that in their archives. But again, that wasn't my argument. My argument was that he wasn't given the best player award. That he was the best young player is irrelevant to my point. Nobody argues that Pele wasn't impressive in that tournament.

Nobody cares. He was adjudged the best by football journalists. They were the most qualified to vote. The whole world doesn't get to vote, sorry. There's no way to confirm what you are saying. Na person wey carry award win award. You are just throwing out arguments that may be hard to prove. It was 1958. It was Pele's world cup too. It was his first and he was impressive. It announced him to the world. Moreso because he was 17. However, it was Didi's too. He was given the best player award.

No, it doesn't stand. You just no get anything better to talk on the matter. I would side with your argument for why it stands if at least half of the team that started in 1950/1954 started in 1958, especially during the knockout stages. The 1958/1962 argument works better. Sorry.

I am sorry, but he didn't have Garrincha too in 1954. No Zagallo either. . Besides no be me give Didi award now. Fifa adjudged that Didi was more important in 1958. No blame me abeg.


No be the same thing i don dey tell you since? Wetin consign Maradona and Garrincha? . That Garrincha is no the same level as Maradona abi wetin?

He wasn't leading anyway. He was injured in the second game. That wasn't leading the way.

Football journalists at the time disagree with you. They thought Didi was more valuable. Sorry.

I am taking the judgment of journalists who were there, however flawed they were over yours any day.
I can admit he was the main man in 1970, but even with that it wasn't by a mile as you are making it seem.

Great players here. You mean R9 that keeps changing is mind. You mean Bobby Charlton that thinks Di Stefano is the best player he ever saw?Provide a link to where Fontaine mentioned that he was the GOAT. It seems you are just throwing some names of greats hoping it sticks. Maybe na you suppose do research now.
Argentines like Cesar Luis Menotti, Hugo Gatti, Jorge Valdano (who played alongside Maradona) all say Pelé is incomparable, the most complete player in history and the greatest of all time.


Singled him out? Which kain language be that? Was he awarded? . Even at the time, Balon D'or was synonymous with European player of the year.

What are you saying, man? Nobody cares if he came into the tournament on fire. He played the first two games and was injured for the rest of it. So simple. Abi him spirit carry dem through the tournament ni? Cos i don't understand what your point is.

Ok


. Na you suppose do research now. His biography says he was injured going into that tournament. They kick Garrincha all the time too. The guy na dribbler. I am not sure why the 'they kicked him' argument is useful here. They kick normal players not to talk of transcendental players.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrincha

Neither Jairzinho nor Rivellino is as great as Pele. No problem. Garrincha and co did it in 1962 without him too. No problem. Besides only two players from 1970 were in the forward-midfield combo in 1974. Rivellino and Jairzinho. The 1974 starting lineup was very different from 1970. You forgot to include that fact. You are welcome.


Not welcome, sorry.

Samueltemi337:
All our CBs are not good


Na Balogun I even dey fear pass

TheGoodJoe:
You can't have a purpose if you can't keep the ball. I am talking about our team, the super eagles and why we find it difficult to keep the ball as a team.

It is because we do not have players who are gifted with the attributes to achieve it.

TheGoodJoe:


That is what I am explaining. Instead of hating a team because they are good at keeping the ball, boost our team to become better at keeping the ball.

This mean players with stamina, skill on the ball, intelligence in passing and ability to hit vital passes.

I am saying we need to improve our scouting and development program.

We can't keep the ball if we keep going with players that are not comfortable with the ball. If our players are not well versed in the passing game and if they lack the ability to make incisive and creative passes.

TheGoodJoe:
cc: TheSuperNerd

You saw that second goal by Croatia. That is what I pointed out on beating a compact setup defense.

Just as in the early 90s and 2000a where people who could cross accurately from a long range and pick up strikers in the pool of defenders were a toast, people gifted in picking up angles from long range with curling shots will become hot cake.

TheSuperNerd:
Many folks laughing at Spain's playing style.... better look in the mirror. Your national team can't even string 5 passes comfortably in the middle and you are mocking Spain? Hahahahahahaha

Spain only lost out on penalties to my Morocco at th3 WC and on penalties to Italy at the last Euros.

Against France in the Last Nations league final, Spain outplayed France, no caps with young Gavi in the middle, Eric Garcia in defence and Oyarzabal up top. France's OVERquality saw them through in the end to a 2-1 win.

Before that game, we saw how Spain schooled the European Champs in Italy in the Nations league Semis. That is the same team you mock?

Our Super Eagles can't do a quarter of their basic passing sequences. That is a problem and should bother us but naah... mocking Spain make us feel better.

Let us be serious abeg. Lol