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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Culture / Orun Oba Ado In Ife/benin Relationship Real Facts (2670 Views)
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Re: Orun Oba Ado In Ife/benin Relationship Real Facts by Nobody: 12:25am On Dec 31, 2022 |
AreaFada2:Below, the Obi of Agbor in 1935 (Obi Obika Gbenoba) I think the picture is that of the father or the grand father of the current Obi of Agbor, since his title is hereditary. I don't really understand why someone chose to change the title to "Dein" ...? Whomever denies the Agbor people are Edo needs his eyes to be examined. 2 Likes 2 Shares
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Re: Orun Oba Ado In Ife/benin Relationship Real Facts by Nobody: 12:30am On Dec 31, 2022 |
Although I told you guys long ago that there was never such a thing as ogiso, oduduwa, oranmiyan, igodomigodo... The fact is that in Nigeria and in most of Africa people are not very educated on the meaning of history. You guys seem to have this belief that people alive today would be able to tell what happened several hundreds of years before their great grand father's grand father was even born. Even unwritten words can't logically travel such time span talkless of entire unwritten events. An other thing: anybody whose ancestral title is Obi is linked to Benin. Show me any of them, I will show you his Benin regalia. 1 Like |
Re: Orun Oba Ado In Ife/benin Relationship Real Facts by Nobody: 12:53am On Dec 31, 2022 |
The current Obi of Agbor when he was crowned. It seems he is the one who changed the title to "Dein". Why do our people love to destroy their traditions so much ? Why do we love to devide ourselves all the time ? Indeed when was the last time this Obi was spotted with his Benin regalia ? Although he is a noble of Benin empire, I am a commoner, so I owe him that respect. 3 Likes 1 Share
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Re: Orun Oba Ado In Ife/benin Relationship Real Facts by RedboneSmith(m): 1:02am On Dec 31, 2022 |
Ghostwon821:Nobody changed the title to Dein. Dein was used in ancient times. Obi, and even eze, were used too. Obi became more prominent along the line, especially under colonial rule. The present Obi of Agbor is merely trying to return the old title of Dein to the prominence it once enjoyed. Even outside Agbor, in places like Issele-Ukwu and co., nwadei (nwa-Dein) still means a Prince, ie, son of a king; and umudei (Umu-Dein) still means children of a king. This underscores the 'ancientness' of Dei/Dein in that axis. It is not a recent creation. |
Re: Orun Oba Ado In Ife/benin Relationship Real Facts by Nobody: 1:09am On Dec 31, 2022 |
RedboneSmith:Do you care to provide evidence ? |
Re: Orun Oba Ado In Ife/benin Relationship Real Facts by AreaFada2: 1:12am On Dec 31, 2022 |
Ghostwon821:Oh, you see. He even looks much like my late relative in his Enogie (ducal) regalia. I believe the idea of Dein was to call the title a name of one of the earliest monarchs of Agbor. I may be wrong though. Asaba case is even more pathetic. Ajayi Crowther somehow highlighted it in the 1800s. He mentioned that the majority Edo speaking people were being diluted by Igbo from across the Niger. Today, many Asaba people don't even know of Asaba population composition back then. Many Igbo criticise Zik of Africa for writing in his book published in the early 70s that Onitsha people are of Benin origin. Ojukwu hated him for it. But Zik's grandmother was emphatic that they are from Benin. We are not dragging anything or anyone but please don't distort history. That is Edo position on history. 4 Likes |
Re: Orun Oba Ado In Ife/benin Relationship Real Facts by RedboneSmith(m): 1:17am On Dec 31, 2022 |
Ghostwon821: The fact that in many Kingdoms all over Anioma, nwadei is prince and umudei is descendants of a king, and Idibodein means servants of the king, and they didn't start using those expressions when Obi Keagborekuzi Ikenchuku ascended the throne should be evidence enough for people who can recognise items from lexicons. Edit: Also forgot to mention that Chief Iduuwe who wrote a manuscript on Agbor history before Keagborekuzi became the Obi, stated quite clearly that the first Obi of Agbor, called Ebonka was known by Dein. |
Re: Orun Oba Ado In Ife/benin Relationship Real Facts by AreaFada2: 1:27am On Dec 31, 2022 |
Ghostwon821: It's not only in Agbor. In Eastern Yorubaland monarchs there increasingly don't use their Benin-type regalia still prevalent just 10 to 20 years ago. There is pressure to identify with larger tribes like Igbo and Yoruba for political expediency. But old pictures don't lie. Google the two monarchs in Owo. Olowo of Owo and Ojomo-Oluda of Ijebu-Owo in Ondo State. Just like in Benin, the Ezomo is the only town chief that has a coronet. Over time Ojomo's (Ezomo) coronet in Owo became a crown. He is now an Oba and descended from same ancestor as the Olowo. While Ezomo remains a chief in Benin and now third ranking among the Edions of Benin (Uzama) after Oliha and Edohen. 3 Likes |
Re: Orun Oba Ado In Ife/benin Relationship Real Facts by Nobody: 1:28am On Dec 31, 2022 |
RedboneSmith: So the chief you are talking about is more than 1000 years old, right ? Otherwise, I don't know how he would be able to know what was going on 1000 years ago and which wasn't recorded in writing. Or perhaps the chief is a time traveler. RedboneSmith:You are yet to provide proof, for your info, our West African languages can't be analysed via etymology because their written form is too recent. I asked for proof and you provided me with "I strongly believe my story, therefore you should believe my story too and everybody should" 3 Likes |
Re: Orun Oba Ado In Ife/benin Relationship Real Facts by RedboneSmith(m): 1:31am On Dec 31, 2022 |
Ghostwon821: So people's orally-preserved memories of their past are completely of no value? Noted. You are yet to provide proof, for your info, our West African languages can't be analysed via etymology because their written form is too recent. K. |
Re: Orun Oba Ado In Ife/benin Relationship Real Facts by Nobody: 1:34am On Dec 31, 2022 |
RedboneSmith:There is no way to prove that a story which is claimed to be "orally preserved" is actually such. When such a claim is made, it can only be taken as anecdotal or recreational, what matters are the hard evidence and when they coincide with the story, then the story is somewhat proven to have some truth in it (the truth in it being exactly what the hard evidence says). You gave me stories, not evidence. 2 Likes |
Re: Orun Oba Ado In Ife/benin Relationship Real Facts by RedboneSmith(m): 1:44am On Dec 31, 2022 |
Ghostwon821: If I say now that the Ogisos and Obas like Eweka, Oguola and Ewuare, etc are just stories because these names do not exist in any contemporary written records by anyone whether European or local, you will go into an angry frenzy. A historian of his people (Chief Iduuwe) recorded the title 'Dein' BEFORE Obi Keagborekuzi even became obi but someone you choose to believe that the Obi invented it. How? Did Chief Iduuwe travel forward in time to find out Keagborekuzi was going to invent 'Dein' when he became king, so he decided to record the title even BEFORE Keagborekuzi introduced it? Was it also Keagborekuzi (who just became Obi 'yesterday') that convinced towns as far away as Issele-Uku, Aboh and Onitsha to introduce nwadei and umudei and Idibodein in their vocabulary and cultural spaces. Ọmọ, its too late to be up arguing inanities. Believe what you will. |
Re: Orun Oba Ado In Ife/benin Relationship Real Facts by Nobody: 1:48am On Dec 31, 2022 |
RedboneSmith: If you had read my earlier comment (which I reproduced below) then you wouldn't be saying the above. Ghostwon821: |
Re: Orun Oba Ado In Ife/benin Relationship Real Facts by Nobody: 1:53am On Dec 31, 2022 |
I want people in Africa to understand the meaning of the word "history" and stop making up their "history" which is making us a laughing stock in the world, indeed educated people in Europe and Asia and America can see through your bs and they just conclude that we don't have any history. You guys are only fooling other uneducated and gullible Africans, nobody else is fooled. |
Re: Orun Oba Ado In Ife/benin Relationship Real Facts by Nobody: 1:58am On Dec 31, 2022 |
The Germans wanted to come and do some excavation in Benin city in order to discover more of our history, I hope their archeologists do so, I wonder what we will discover. 1 Like |
Re: Orun Oba Ado In Ife/benin Relationship Real Facts by Nobody: 2:11am On Dec 31, 2022 |
RedboneSmith:You are being intellectually dishonest. 1) I didn't say that the Obi invented the word. 2) I said the Obi changed the title from "Obi" to "Dein" 3) your claims about the word "Dein" remain without proof 4) if the chief wrote a story about the word "Dein" in which he makes the same claim as you before the Obi made the change, then isn't it logical to assume that the Obi borrowed the word from the chief ? 5) in which universe would you assume that I would believe the chief did a time travel to the future ? Especially when a much more logical explanation is not hard to find ? Have a nice day. 1 Like |
Re: Orun Oba Ado In Ife/benin Relationship Real Facts by Nobody: 10:56am On Dec 31, 2022 |
I think the reason the Obi of Agbor changed his title is that he wasn't raised by his father (his father died when he was 2 years old), he didn't learn his traditions from his father, he allowed a story teller to dupe him and that is why he changed his title. 2 Likes |
Re: Orun Oba Ado In Ife/benin Relationship Real Facts by samuk: 12:11pm On Dec 31, 2022 |
Ghostwon821: You are very correct, but the Obi still acknowledges his Benin roots just like the Olu of Warri, Obi of Issele-Uku. 2 Likes |
Re: Orun Oba Ado In Ife/benin Relationship Real Facts by samuk: 12:17pm On Dec 31, 2022 |
Ghostwon821: Again you make a very valid point. This is why Benin history has been introduced into the British secondary school curriculum, in doing so, the British started their research in aspect of Benin history that they can backup with early independent European eyewitness accounts. Benin history was chosen to make children of black heritage lean about black African past glorious history pre slaving. They are also considering verifiable materials on Ashanti empire. More materials and research is being done on Benin history to expand the scope. The Benin Kingdom/empire is the only one worthy of research in this regard so far in Nigeria, the Europeans know that most Africa history/stories that were written starting in the late 1800s by some so called Africa historians are not necessarily true. 1 Like |
Re: Orun Oba Ado In Ife/benin Relationship Real Facts by GhostOfNigeria(m): 1:54am On Mar 09, 2023 |
BanyXchi:it is not my business if they are Yoruba or not but the oba of Benin is Yoruba not the bini people |
Re: Orun Oba Ado In Ife/benin Relationship Real Facts by Babinski: 1:52am On Dec 09, 2023 |
samuk: The request for written Pre-1897 Benin History as a basis to attack the Oranmiyan-Benin Royalty link is weak, particularly when your own sources are oral histories recounted by persons born in the 18th or 19th Century. A book written in the 20th Century may be based on historical findings that date back centuries which may be corroborated by recent archeological discoveries. Trying to discredit such book based on publication date is at best the works of uninformed minds. Ryder's book "A Reconsideration of the Ife-Benin Relationship" which some people attacking the OP tried to quote from was published in 1965 and contained a dubious and discredited 1823 account of a European that Benin Kingdom was founded by a white man who came over the great waters and supplanted the Ogisos. That someone would even made allusions to such ludicrous story to counter the OP shows the paucity and weakness of evidence to support their claims. Unsurprisingly, Ryder's later book "Benin and the Europeans, 1485-1897" which was published in 1969 acknowledged the Oranmiyan story in the establishment of the Oba Dynasty in Benin. Chief Jacob U. Egharevba, the local Benin Historian, acknowledged by people like Ryder and many others, is widely accepted as an authority on Benin History. In all his books including the popular "A Short History of Benin", the Oranmiyan-Benin link was acknowledged as the start of the Oba of Benin Dynasty. From almost all credible sources including statements from the Benin Palace, the Obas of Benin are descendants of Oranmiyan, a Yoruba Prince. The OP substantiated his claims with clear evidence from written history. All others opposing him want us to simply take their words or what their grandmothers told them as authoritative. Such position is ludicrous. You cannot re-write history to suit you or your feelings. |
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