₦airaland Forum

justli:
First, the other thief did not believe. Secondly, he did not ask Jesus to save him, instead, like the chief priest he was making mockery of Jesus: "if you be Christ, save yourself and save us". Just like the high priest asking Jesus to bring himself down from the cross if he is the Christ.

You said he never asked Jesus to save him but I proved you wrong with his own quote. He did indeed ask Jesus to save him but you're the one denying and twisting the obvious.

Whether he was sincere is another matter, but I don't think someone who is about to die by crucifixion would be jokingly asking Jesus to save him from death.

jesusjnr2020:
You said he never asked Jesus to save him but I proved you wrong with his own quote. He did indeed ask Jesus to save him but you're the one denying and twisting the obvious.

Whether he was sincere is another matter, but I don't think someone who is about to die by crucifixion would be jokingly asking Jesus to save him from death.

Mark 15:31 32: In the same way the chief priests and the teachers of the law mocked him among themselves. “He saved others,” they said, “but he can’t save himself! 32 Let this Messiah, this king of Israel, come down now from the cross, that we may see and believe.” Those crucified with him also heaped insults on him.

Mathew 27 41-44
Luke 23 39:
One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”

40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”

You can clearly see the other criminal was not putting himself at the mercy of Christ, instead he was hurling insult: "if you are the Christ , save yourself and save us". It's even so bad that the saved criminal had to rebuke the criminal at the left.
Again, the left criminal is not throwing himself at the mercy of Christ, instead he was making mockery of Christ like the passerby and the priests.
The accounts are very clear. The bible is very clear about salvation not by work. You can stretch things however you like, but the truth will always hit your conscience

phemmyfour:
confession unto repentance

God bless your soul richly

[quote author=jesusjnr2020 post=122348389]What Saved The Thief On The Cross?

It wasn't just faith but good works that saved the thief on the cross.

He didn't just put his faith in Jesus and pray for Jesus to remember him as many erroneously think. He did much more than that!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I applaud your attempt to bring attention to this event... praise GOD!

I would just remind you that there isn't a single work that we as human beings do or can do that contributes to our salvation... it is by GOD's election and grace alone (John 1:12-13). The good works GOD does in us after He saves us.

Picture all of humanity, dead in trespasses and sins, in a pit since the fall of mankind. GOD must reach into said pit and breathe life via HIs Holy Word in those whom He will... then we respond to GOD.

Ephesians 2:1
By Grace Through Faith
"And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins"

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9

jesusjnr2020:
What Saved The Thief On The Cross?

It wasn't just faith but good works that saved the thief on the cross.

He didn't just put his faith in Jesus and pray for Jesus to remember him as many erroneously think. He did much more than that!

Luke 23:39-41 (KJV)

And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

This was what the thief said before he told Jesus to remember him. He defended and stood up for Jesus against the other thief while on the cross.

He rebuked him saying, "do you not fear God" because of what he said to Jesus.

Is that not a good work he did for Jesus on the cross?

Remember, this was the loneliest moment in the life of Jesus.

His disciples who He said He would reward with a kingdom because they were there with Him in His temptations, had all forsaken Him and fled, so they weren't there with Him during the moment of the greatest temptation He ever faced. Luke 22:28-30, Mark 14:50.

Worst still, His Father whose presence Jesus valued more than anything else, of who He once said, had never left Him, had now also forsaken Him.

John 8:29 (KJV)

And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Matthew 27:46 (KJV)

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

So this was the same moment on the cross that the thief had risen to the defence of Jesus when He had no one else there to back Him up or bear witness of Him, so was that not a good work the thief on the cross did for Jesus?

It wasn't just a good work but a great and strategic work, and the thief himself appeared to know that he had done an important work for Jesus, hence the language he used.

He said "Lord remember me..." Luke 23:42 (KJV)

He could have said "Lord save me" or "Lord help me" but he said "Lord remember me".

It reminds me of what Joseph said to the cup bearer of Pharoah after he interpreted his dream.

There has to be something to be remembered for, and for the thief it was the great thing he did for Jesus on the cross.

He was there for Jesus in His most trying moment when no one else was, hence Jesus who didn't respond to the request of the other sinner to also save him, didn't hesitate but instantly granted his request.

Luke 23:43 (KJV)

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

So the thief didn't just believe or have faith in Jesus to save him, he did a good work for Jesus on the cross.

God bless

Fairy tales

justli:
On the cross he asked, "Father forgive them". Praying for those who have brutalized him. May God have mercy on you. But your case might be different from those of theRomans soldiers, in that they didn't know he was the Redeemer, never heard the gospel, only taking orders,
But you my friend can do a deep dive in the life of Jesus...the only perfect man on recorded history to walk the face of the earth.

You have access to every information to find the truth for yourself, but instead chose to profane your maker. One day you'll stand before God in judgement.

Thank you, finding the truth is a long life journey. It doesn’t end, even if you have eternity, you will continue making new discoveries till eternity.
But I’ve gone past the age of lies of religion and Jesus Christ. The truth is bigger than jesus and his religion . Jesus is just a microscopic element, same Jesus is in the afterlife exploring the universe and trying to find meaning and redemption for the useless life he lived while on earth

Kobojunkiee:
1. So what you are saying is that Jesus Christ definitely doesn't know what it means to be born-again?

Your response is vague. Not very clear

dazzlingd:
Thank you, finding the truth is a long life journey. It doesn’t end, even if you have eternity, you will continue making new discoveries till eternity.
But I’ve gone past the age of lies of religion and Jesus Christ. The truth is bigger than jesus and his religion . Jesus is just a microscopic element, same Jesus is in the afterlife exploring the universe and trying to find meaning and redemption for the useless life he lived while on earth

So what is your understanding of afterlife?
And be civil. There is no evidence in history that Jesus ever did any wrong. So, let's discuss, what is your understanding of afterlife? I mean, what happens when you die?

justli:
■ Your response is vague. Not very clear

Your response to the question asked is what does not make sense.

Again, Jesus Christ said one absolutely must be born of water and born of spirit before one can then enter into the Kingdom of God.

5 Jesus answered, “Believe me when I say that everyone must be born from water and the Spirit. Anyone who is not born from water and the Spirit cannot enter God’s kingdom. - John 3 vs 5

When exactly, during that conversation did the thief become born-again?

Kobojunkiee:
Your response to the question asked is what does not make sense.

Again, Jesus Christ said one absolutely must be born of water and born of spirit before one can then enter into the Kingdom of God.
When exactly, during that conversation did the thief become born-again?

You just refuted yourself: The criminal already had a spiritual birth and cleansing by trusting in the redeeming power of Jesus and confessing him as lord, that's being born again.

justli:
■ You just refuted yourself:
■ The criminal already had a spiritual birth and cleansing by trusting in the redeeming power of Jesus and confessing him as lord, that's being born again.

1. I refuted what exactly?

2. Where in scripture is this spiritual bullsheet you claim expressed as a possibility in scripture?,

xproducer:
I applaud your attempt to bring attention to this event... praise GOD!

I would just remind you that there isn't a single work that we as human beings do or can do that contributes to our salvation... it is by GOD's election and grace alone (John 1:12-13). The good works GOD does in us after He saves us.

Picture all of humanity, dead in trespasses and sins, in a pit since the fall of mankind. GOD must reach into said pit and breathe life via HIs Holy Word in those whom He will... then we respond to GOD.

Ephesians 2:1
By Grace Through Faith
"And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins"

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9

Your position is antichrist because Jesus told us severally He would judge us according to our works. You cannot know more than Jesus who paid the price for ours sins with His blood concerning what He requires from us to be saved. If you don't believe that works play a crucial role in our salvation, you don't believe in what Jesus says.

justli:
You are stretching you fit your narrative... The apostle emphasized we are no saved by work because the sacrifice was sufficient.

In the course of being a Christian, you'll have to carry your cross to the end, but it isn't the carrying of the cross that saves you...

The below verse is as direct as can be:
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast. [10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in the"

It's a shame that you guys think an apostle could know better than His Master who paid the price for man's sins.

It is antichrist to say that works do not play a role in getting us saved because Jesus who died for our sins Himself said He will judge us according to our works, so it doesn't matter what else someone else says to the contrary even if it be His apostle.

It is only Christ that has the right to determine that, not one else and He says He'd judge us by our works!

It was just a story there was never a thief

BabaAduras:
I do not agree with your statement that "God only remembers people for the good they have done for him ......." This tends to portend that it is by our works that we get remembered and favoured.

Where is the mercy of God in this? God said in Rom 9: 15 and 16 " ........I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy --------- It is not for him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but for God that showeth mercy"

It is not by our works. Yes God do remember our offering and sacrifices, but we are saved by those. It is just His mercies.

You don't have to agree with the Truth for it to be the Truth. God only remembers people for they good they do for Him. His Word says He is going to reward people according to the good works they did for Him. Check through out the Bible, God only remembers people for the good they did for Him.

If it's by the mercies of God alone, everyone would be saved, but the difference between the saved and unsaved in those who obey and do what God requires of them.

If you really want to understand the ways of God and not blindly follow the imaginations of men, study God's ways and reward system. For instance, the centurion, pay close attention to what God said and not whatever preconceptions you have, then you'd be able to discern what is of God and what isn't of such doctrines.

justli:
Mark 15:31 32: In the same way the chief priests and the teachers of the law mocked him among themselves. “He saved others,” they said, “but he can’t save himself! 32 Let this Messiah, this king of Israel, come down now from the cross, that we may see and believe.” Those crucified with him also heaped insults on him.

Mathew 27 41-44
Luke 23 39:
One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”

40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”

You can clearly see the other criminal was not putting himself at the mercy of Christ, instead he was hurling insult: "if you are the Christ , save yourself and save us". It's even so bad that the saved criminal had to rebuke the criminal at the left.
Again, the left criminal is not throwing himself at the mercy of Christ, instead he was making mockery of Christ like the passerby and the priests.
The accounts are very clear. The bible is very clear about salvation not by work. You can stretch things however you like, but the truth will always hit your conscience

It's a lie. They never said save me or us as the thief did. They only said save thyself. The thief asked Jesus to save him but it was the manner in which he said it that was wrong, that's why the other thief corrected him.

The teachings of Christ are very clear that salvation requires works. You can only temporarily reject the teachings of Jesus to accept those which fit your man-made narratives which appease the flesh, but at the end you would have to stand before Jesus who brought man salvation with His blood, and He will judge you according to your works not His!

jesusjnr2020:
Your position is antichrist because Jesus told us severally He would judge us according to our works. You cannot know more than Jesus who paid the price for ours sins with His blood concerning what He requires from us to be saved. If you don't believe that works play a crucial role in our salvation, you don't believe in what Jesus says.

++++++++

Clearly you have not understood... but I pray that you do.

GOD Who works in His own, whom He alone saves, is the only Holy One Who will be glorified!

"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." - Philippians 2:13

Good works are a good thing and are encouraged, but know that works can never save a person from damnation! Why... because "all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags"! (Isaiah 64:6)

Go and read the parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector in Luke 18:9-14!...

The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector
"Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.” - Luke 18:9-14

jesusjnr2020:
What Saved The Thief On The Cross?

It wasn't just faith but good works that saved the thief on the cross.

He didn't just put his faith in Jesus and pray for Jesus to remember him as many erroneously think. He did much more than that!

Luke 23:39-41 (KJV)

And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

This was what the thief said before he told Jesus to remember him. He defended and stood up for Jesus against the other thief while on the cross.

He rebuked him saying, "do you not fear God" because of what he said to Jesus.

Is that not a good work he did for Jesus on the cross?

Remember, this was the loneliest moment in the life of Jesus.

His disciples who He said He would reward with a kingdom because they were there with Him in His temptations, had all forsaken Him and fled, so they weren't there with Him during the moment of the greatest temptation He ever faced. Luke 22:28-30, Mark 14:50.

Worst still, His Father whose presence Jesus valued more than anything else, of who He once said, had never left Him, had now also forsaken Him.

John 8:29 (KJV)

And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Matthew 27:46 (KJV)

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

So this was the same moment on the cross that the thief had risen to the defence of Jesus when He had no one else there to back Him up or bear witness of Him, so was that not a good work the thief on the cross did for Jesus?

It wasn't just a good work but a great and strategic work, and the thief himself appeared to know that he had done an important work for Jesus, hence the language he used.

He said "Lord remember me..." Luke 23:42 (KJV)

He could have said "Lord save me" or "Lord help me" but he said "Lord remember me".

It reminds me of what Joseph said to the cup bearer of Pharoah after he interpreted his dream.

There has to be something to be remembered for, and for the thief it was the great thing he did for Jesus on the cross.

He was there for Jesus in His most trying moment when no one else was, hence Jesus who didn't respond to the request of the other sinner to also save him, didn't hesitate but instantly granted his request.

Luke 23:43 (KJV)

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

So the thief didn't just believe or have faith in Jesus to save him, he did a good work for Jesus on the cross.

God bless

False doctrine. He was saved by grace.

No man is saved by good works. Only by grace lest any man should boast.

jesusjnr2020:
You don't have to agree with the Truth for it to be the Truth. God only remembers people for they good they do for Him. His Word says He is going to reward people according to the good works they did for Him. Check through out the Bible, God only remembers people for the good they did for Him.

If it's by the mercies of God alone, everyone would be saved, but the difference between the saved and unsaved in those who obey and do what God requires of them.

If you really want to understand the ways of God and not blindly follow the imaginations of men, study God's ways and reward system. For instance, the centurion, pay close attention to what God said and not whatever preconceptions you have, then you'd be able to discern what is of God and what isn't of such doctrines.

What made your summation the TRUTH. A mere mortal like you claiming your assertions/interpretations are TRUTHS..

There is only one TRUTH, Jesus Christ. John 4: 6 “…… I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

BabaAduras:
What made your summation the TRUTH. A mere mortal like you claiming your assertions/interpretations are TRUTHS..

There is only one TRUTH, Jesus Christ. John 4: 6 “…… I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

Okay you don't believe God's Word which says, "He'd judge all men according to their works" (Matthew 16:27) is the Truth? Then you don't know who the Truth is even though you claim to know Him.

ErnestNc:
False doctrine. He was saved by grace.

No man is saved by good works. Only by grace lest any man should boast.

It is the "saved by grace alone" doctrine which is false and has nothing to do with Christ who said He'd judge every men according to his works. Matthew 16:27

It has sent a lot of sinners to hell because it emboldens and makes many sinners boast, instead of repenting and turning away from their sins as Christ warned them to do. Luk4 13:3

xproducer:
++++++++

Clearly you have not understood... but I pray that you do.

GOD Who works in His own, whom He alone saves, is the only Holy One Who will be glorified!

"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." - Philippians 2:13

Good works are a good thing and are encouraged, but know that works can never save a person from damnation! Why... because "all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags"! (Isaiah 64:6)

Go and read the parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector in Luke 18:9-14!...

The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector
"Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.” - Luke 18:9-14

Pray for yourself because you walk blindly and in ignorance but still think you know and can see.

Works would have saved man from damnation in the beginning if he had obeyed the Word of God.

Works would have saved the people in the days of Noah if they had kept God's Word and weren't evil doers. God said He would destroy the earth and all flesh because of man's wickedness.

Works saved Noah from damnation because he obeyed God's Word and walked righteously.

Works saved the people of Nineveh because they repented and had turned from their wicked ways.

Jonah 3:10 (KJV)

And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Pay close attention to the above carefully if you don't want to continue arguing blindly that works has never saved any man from damnation.

God has not changed and will never change, hence why He yet said He's going to judge every man according to his works. Matthew 16:27, Revelation 20:12-13.

The Pharisees were an abomination in the sight of God because of their evil works according to Jesus, yet they claimed to be righteous men, hence why the sinner (tax collector) was more justified than his fellow sinner (Pharisee) in the sight of God not because God doesn't consider works.

If that sinner doesn't repent from his sinful ways, he will likewise perish according to Jesus, so humbly telling God to have mercy is not enough. One must repent or perish!

jesusjnr2020:
It is the "saved by grace alone" doctrine which is false and has nothing to do with Christ who said He'd judge every men according to his works. Matthew 16:27

It has sent a lot of sinners to hell because it emboldens and makes many sinners boast, instead of repenting and turning away from their sins as Christ warned them to do. Luk4 13:3

I repeat. NO MAN IS SAVED BY GOOD WORKS.
You can't do the Job better than Jesus(Gal 2:20-21). It's the definition of grace you're getting wrong . You simply don't know what grace means. If anyone truly has received grace , he will be saved.

How many things can you stop doing to save yourself ? You keep acquiring more Knowledge of sin by preventing yourself from sinning . Don't do this, don't do that. Don't kill, don't steal. But you still know how to lie, to lust etc. You keep living trapped in do's and Don'ts. You fast , but you don't pray often or you pray often and then sleep often.

You visit the sick but don't visit the prisoner or orphanage. How many good works can guarantee your salvation? It's not about what you do. Grace helps you do what you need to do at the right time. It's an inbuilt life system governed by the kingdom of God which is the leading of the holy spirit . How can you be lead by God and still sin?
There are scenarios where the grace of God will even discipline you so you cannot sin, even if you want to by all means. I don't want to even go there.

Romans 3:20 KJV
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

But Grace has an inner working, a new life that works within , which makes one subscribe to the law of life and not of sin and death. Grace is a function of faith. What you're teaching is a teaching of death.

four functions/aim of grace

1. Forgiveness and Redemption

2. Salvation
Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.

3.Doctrine
Titus 2:11 KJV
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Titus 2:12
12. Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; m

4. Divine ability to become and to labour/work with and for God (power)
This is the final aim of grace

1 Corinthians 15:10 KJV
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Galatians 2:21 KJv
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Shalom.

KEEP REPEATING YOUR LIES. IT WILL NEVER MAKE IT THE TRUTH!

Works would have saved man from damnation in the beginning if he had obeyed the Word of God.

Works would have saved the people in the days of Noah if they had kept God's Word and weren't evil doers. God said He would destroy the earth and all flesh because of man's wickedness.

Works saved Noah from damnation because he obeyed God's Word and walked righteously.

Works saved the people of Nineveh because they repented and had turned from their wicked ways.

Jonah 3:10 (KJV)

And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Pay close attention to the above carefully if you don't want to continue arguing blindly that works has never saved any man from damnation.

God has not changed and will never change, hence why He yet said He's going to judge every man according to his works. Matthew 16:27, Revelation 20:12-13.


Continue lying to yourself if you like. Your choice!

You can never know more than Jesus who died for man's sins and said that He will judge every man according to the man's work, not His! Matthew 16:27

ErnestNc:
I repeat. NO MAN IS SAVED BY GOOD WORKS.
You can't do the Job better than Jesus(Gal 2:20-21). It's the definition of grace you're getting wrong . You simply don't know what grace means. If anyone truly has received grace , he will be saved.

How many things can you stop doing to save yourself ? You keep acquiring more Knowledge of sin by preventing yourself from sinning . Don't do this, don't do that. Don't kill, don't steal. But you still know how to lie, to lust etc. You keep living trapped in do's and Don'ts. You fast , but you don't pray often or you pray often and then sleep often.

You visit the sick but don't visit the prisoner or orphanage. How many good works can guarantee your salvation? It's not about what you do. Grace helps you do what you need to do at the right time. It's an inbuilt life system governed by the kingdom of God which is the leading of the holy spirit . How can you be lead by God and still sin?
There are scenarios where the grace of God will even discipline you so you cannot sin, even if you want to by all means. I don't want to even go there.

Romans 3:20 KJV
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

But Grace has an inner working, a new life that works within , which makes one subscribe to the law of life and not of sin and death. Grace is a function of faith. What you're teaching is a teaching of death.

four functions/aim of grace

1. Forgiveness and Redemption

2. Salvation
Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.

3.Doctrine
Titus 2:11 KJV
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Titus 2:12
12. Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; m

4. Divine ability to become and to labour/work with and for God (power)
This is the final aim of grace

1 Corinthians 15:10 KJV
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Galatians 2:21 KJv
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Shalom.

jesusjnr2020:
KEEP REPEATING YOUR LIES. IT WILL NEVER MAKE IT THE TRUTH!

Works would have saved man from damnation in the beginning if he had obeyed the Word of God.

Works would have saved the people in the days of Noah if they had kept God's Word and weren't evil doers. God said He would destroy the earth and all flesh because of man's wickedness.

Works saved Noah from damnation because he obeyed God's Word and walked righteously.

Works saved the people of Nineveh because they repented and had turned from their wicked ways.

Jonah 3:10 (KJV)

And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Pay close attention to the above carefully if you don't want to continue arguing blindly that works has never saved any man from damnation.

God has not changed and will never change, hence why He yet said He's going to judge every man according to his works. Matthew 16:27, Revelation 20:12-13.


Continue lying to yourself if you like. Your choice!

You can never know more than Jesus who died for man's sins and said that He will judge every man according to the man's work, not His! Matthew 16:27

Where is grace ? Then what is the essence of grace? Is Grace not for works?
God has seen that man cannot work the works of God without divine ability . So he has given grace. You are teaching death sir.

GRACE ascribes glory to God and Works ascribe glory to man. But if you labour and deny yourself of the Glory and acknowledge the true motor which is God, like Paul , then that is grace at work. Be there preaching self righteousness. The.n of what need is the death of Christ?


You seem blinded. I must leave you now.

ErnestNc:
Where is grace ? Then what is the essence of grace? Is Grace not for works?
God has seen that man cannot work the works of God without divine ability . So he has given grace. You are teaching death sir.

GRACE ascribes glory to God and Works ascribe glory to man. But if you labour and deny yourself of the Glory and acknowledge the true motor which is God, like Paul , then that is grace at work. Be there preaching self righteousness. The.n of what need is the death of Christ?


You seem blinded. I must leave you now.

How can you be so spiritually blind not to how works saved people in the past despite how glaring it is?

Didn't you see what God made of the works of the people of Nineveh or you chose to remain blinded to the Truth?

You think they deserved to be saved because of their works?

No!

They didn't deserve to be saved because of their works, but they were able to partake of God's grace because of their works.

That's what the true grace of God does. That's the essence of the death of Christ. Men don't deserve it but they would only be able to partake of its benefit because of their works. Hence Jesus saying He'd judge every man according to his works.

But the grace you preach which undermines the importance of works in one's salvation, is not of God but an antichrist gospel which encourages/promotes sin, produces many sinners and has sent many souls to hell, so it doesn't ascribe any glory to God as you ignorantly think but to sinners, making them to be boastful and emboldened in their inquity to their own destruction.

How can God get glory from such a gospel that justifies the wicked and make them to continue in the evil ways and not come to repentance?

It the devil that the grace gospel you preach glorifies. It makes sin to abound and it's only the devil can get glory such a result.

So continue to glorify the devil and sinners if you like. You are entitled to your choice.

jesusjnr2020:
How can you be so spiritually blind not to how works saved people in the past despite how glaring it is?

Didn't you see what God made of the works of the people of Nineveh or you chose to remain blinded to the Truth?

You think they deserved to be saved because of their works?

No!

They didn't deserve to be saved because of their works, but they were able to partake of God's grace because of their works.

That's what the true grace of God does. That's the essence of the death of Christ. Men don't deserve it but they would only be able to partake of its benefit because of their works. Hence Jesus saying He'd judge every man according to his works.

But the grace you preach which undermines the importance of works in one's salvation, is not of God but an antichrist gospel which encourages/promotes sin, produces many sinners and has sent many souls to hell, so it doesn't ascribe any glory to God as you ignorantly think but to sinners, making them to be boastful and emboldened in their inquity to their own destruction.

How can God get glory from such a gospel that justifies the wicked and make them to continue in the evil ways and not come to repentance?

It the devil that the grace gospel you preach glorifies. It makes sin to abound and it's only the devil can get glory such a result.

So continue to glorify the devil and sinners if you like. You are entitled to your choice.

How am I supporting the devil sir? From what I wrote up there , did I undermine works? 😂 Ever seeing but not perceiving, ever hearing but not understanding. You clearly did not read my write up. You're also blinded by emotions . How many times will I say that grace is for works? And not the other way?

What you are teaching is death sir.

ErnestNc:
I repeat. NO MAN IS SAVED BY GOOD WORKS.
You can't do the Job better than Jesus(Gal 2:20-21). It's the definition of grace you're getting wrong . You simply don't know what grace means. If anyone truly has received grace , he will be saved. .

No need for long epistles please.

○ So, was Jesus Christ in His statements found in Matthew 10 vs 22 & Matthew 24 vs 12 - 13 & Mark 13 vs 13 perhaps wrong?

○ When in parable He explained how it makes sense to count the cost in Luke 14 vs 25 - 35, was Jesus Christ simply saying His own?

○ When Jesus Christ told you the parable of the 10 brides in Matthew 25 vs 1 - 13 and how 5 of them --- all equally brides --- could not make it in the end, was He not trying to bring your attention to work that had to be done in order to qualify for salvation at the end?

ErnestNc:
How am I supporting the devil sir? From what I wrote up there , did I undermine works? 😂 Ever seeing but not perceiving, ever hearing but not understanding. You clearly did not read my write up. You're also blinded by emotions . How many times will I say that grace is for works? And not the other way?

What you are teaching is death sir.

What exactly do you think you do when you say no man is saved by works in spite of the overwhelming biblical evidence stacked up against your falsehood?

It's antichrist to undermine the importance of works in one's salvation when Christ Himself who brought salvation says works is the parameter He'd used to judge every man.

As for the bolded, you should tell that to the people of Nineveh and all others in the Bible whose works saved them from being destroyed by God.

Just incase, let me still put the truth in front of you to give you another chance to realize your error if you would.

Jonah 3:10 (KJV)

AND GOD SAW THEIR WORKS, THAT THEY TURNED FROM THEIR EVIL WAY; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Now that's the teaching of death to you.

jesusjnr2020:
What exactly do you think you do when you say no man is saved by works in spite of the overwhelming biblical evidence stacked up against your falsehood?

It's antichrist to undermine the importance of works in one's salvation when Christ Himself who brought salvation says works is the parameter He'd used to judge every man.

As for the bolded, you should tell that to the people of Nineveh and all others in the Bible whose works saved them from being destroyed by God.

Just incase, let me still put the truth in front of you to give you another chance to realize your error if you would.

Jonah 3:10 (KJV)

AND GOD SAW THEIR WORKS, THAT THEY TURNED FROM THEIR EVIL WAY; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Now that's the teaching of death to you.

Where in the new testament was any man saved by works except by Jesus(Grace) ?

Kobojunkiee:
No need for long epistles please.

○ So, was Jesus Christ in His statements found in Matthew 10 vs 22 & Matthew 24 vs 12 - 13 & Mark 13 vs 13 perhaps wrong?

○ When in parable He explained how it makes sense to count the cost in Luke 14 vs 25 - 35, was Jesus Christ simply saying His own?

○ When Jesus Christ told you the parable of the 10 brides in Matthew 25 vs 1 - 13 and how 5 of them --- all equally brides --- could not make it in the end, was He not trying to bring your attention to work that had to be done in order to qualify for salvation at the end?

You made zero point. You just denied Jesus working in us and through us and ascribed the glory to flesh. Of what use is the death of Christ, Lady? It seems you don't know the power of Grace that works in man.

You think you can of your own be righteous without the holy spirit? Without the Holy Ghost no man can work the works of God . Without faith that gives access to the visibility of God in our lives your works is dead and counted as filth.

At the end Of the parable what did Jesus say?
Shall the son of man find Faith on the earth when he returns?

What faith is he talking of? The faith that makes a man work the works of God . You think without grace and the spirit of truth you can work the works of God? My spirit is grieved You all Deny Jesus unknowingly.

ErnestNc:
■ You made zero point. You just denied Jesus working in us and through us and ascribed the glory to flesh.
■ Of what use is the death of Christ, Lady? It seems you don't know the power of Grace that works in man.
■ You think you can of your own be righteous without the holy spirit? Without the Holy Ghost no man can work the works of God .
■ Without faith that gives access to the visibility of God in our lives your works is dead and counted as filth. At the end Of the parable what did Jesus say? Shall the son of man find Faith on the earth when he returns? What faith is he talking of? The faith that makes a man work the works of God . You think without grace and the spirit of truth you can work the works of God? My spirit is grieved You all Deny Jesus unknowingly.

1. Where exactly did I do this denying you a accuse me of?

2. The power of grace(eternal life)? You mean the same eternal life that even demons and devil have as they also believe and are eternal as well? Read what Jesus Christ in fact said of the power of Grace in John 3 vs 5 - 8 when He spoke of what it is like to be born of the Spirit(of eternal life)?

3. According to Jesus Christ, you must first become Holy - a Son of God -- through continuous submission and obedience to His teachings and commandments, the Truth of God. It is only after you have become a worthy vessel that the Spirit of Truth who also is called the second Helper then comes and sets you free from slavery to sin -- John 8 vs 31 - 36 and you are then able to be led by Him - John 14 vs 15 - 27. Should I deny what Jesus Christ Himself taught just so you can be happier with my lot or something?

4. God Himself opened His mouth to explain faith to you in Genesis 26 vs 6 when He explained what led to Abraham--- the one you all refer to as the father of the faith ---in fact did to be made righteous by Him, God. Abraham lived his life in continuous submission and obedience of God's commandments and statutes; that is what God said. And Abraham did not have the Holy Spirit before he was justified/made righteous by God. Same as Job, and many of the other old Covenant righteous men.

Jesus Christ will definitely find Faith on earth when He returns, why? Because not all are faithless - living in disobedience of His teachings and commandments while pretending to be of Him -- on earth.

P.s. Notice how what God said Abraham did happens to be exactly what Jesus Christ commands in His God of all those who love Him?