₦airaland Forum

Kobojunkiee:
1. Where exactly did I do this denying you a accuse me of?

2. The power of grace(eternal life)? You mean the same eternal life that even demons and devil have as they also believe and are eternal as well? Read what Jesus Christ in fact said of the power of Grace in John 3 vs 5 - 8 when He spoke of what it is like to be born of the Spirit(of eternal life)?

3. According to Jesus Christ, you must first become Holy - a Son of God -- through continuous submission and obedience to His teachings and commandments, the Truth of God. It is only after you have become a worthy vessel that the Spirit of Truth who also is called the second Helper then comes and sets you free from slavery to sin -- John 8 vs 31 - 36 and you are then able to be led by Him - John 14 vs 15 - 27. Should I deny what Jesus Christ Himself taught just so you can be happier with my lot or something?

4. God Himself opened His mouth to explain faith to you in Genesis 26 vs 6 when He explained what led to Abraham--- the one you all refer to as the father of the faith ---in fact did to be made righteous by Him, God. Abraham lived his life in continuous submission and obedience of God's commandments and statutes; that is what God said. And Abraham did not have the Holy Spirit before he was justified/made righteous by God. Same as Job, and many of the other old Covenant righteous men.

Jesus Christ will definitely find Faith on earth when He returns, why? Because not all are faithless - living in disobedience of His teachings and commandments while pretending to be of Him -- on earth.

P.s. Notice how what God said Abraham did happens to be exactly what Jesus Christ commands in His God of all those who love Him?

You think Abraham was not helped by God? Do you know the encounters he had? How did he fear and obey God without ever knowing the spirit of God? There are so many monks that are Holy, but doesn't mean they are holy by the standards of God and his emphasis.

Faith in Abraham's generation was obedience to the emphasis of God. And it was
counted as righteousness.

In Moses's time it was obedience to the law


What is the emphasis of God now in our time?

ErnestNc:
Where in the new testament was any man saved by works except by Jesus(Grace) ?

From "works has never saved anyone" to "where in the new testament"?

At least it shows we're making progress but before I do what you ask, would you believe if I showed you an instance Jesus Himself saved someone else because of the person's works as God did on that occasion in the old testament?

Because I don't have time to waste if it would not make any difference.

ErnestNc:
■ You think Abraham was not helped by God? Do you know the encounters he had? How did he fear and obey God without ever knowing the spirit of God?
■ There are so many monks that are Holy, but doesn't mean they are holy by the standards of God and his emphasis.
■ Faith in Abraham's generation was obedience to the emphasis of God. And it was counted as righteousness. In Moses's time it was obedience to the law What is the emphasis of God now in our time?

1. So, God who stated in Genesis 26 vs 6 that Abraham was justified because he, Abraham, lived His life in continuous submission and obedience to His commandments and statutes lied?

Do you mean that when we are told that Abraham simply chose to fear and obey God even as a child would obey a parent, Abraham really didn't do that?

2. If their standard does not coincide with that which is the standard set by God Himself, what relevance is their mention in this conversation that is strictly about God and His standard/Law/agreement for men to follow?

3. ■ In the beginning God gave Law to Adam — one of the important commandments found in Genesis 2 vs 15 - 17— and commanded Adam to obey His commandments and statues
■ God said Abraham lived His life in obedience to His commandments and statutes aka God's Law as given by God to Abraham.
■ In Moses's time, God's instructions to the people were that they live their lives in obedience to His commandments and statutes aka God's Law as He gave them to them.
■ Under Jesus Christ, we are called to live our lives in continuous submission and obedience to the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ, God's Covenant, and Law in the Kingdom of God.

The mandate from God to all men regarding His Laws remains the same as it was from the very beginning. So what exactly are you insisting has changed in all that time?

Kobojunkiee:
1. So, God who stated in Genesis 26 vs 6 that Abraham was justified because he, Abraham, lived His life in continuous submission and obedience to His commandments and statutes lied?

Do you mean that when we are told that Abraham simply chose to fear and obey God even as a child would obey a parent, Abraham really didn't do that?

2. If their standard does not coincide with that which is the standard set by God Himself, what relevance is their mention in this conversation that is strictly about God and His standard/Law/agreement for men to follow?

3. ■ In the beginning God gave Law to Adam — one of the important commandments found in Genesis 2 vs 15 - 17— and commanded Adam to obey His commandments and statues
■ God said Abraham lived His life in obedience to His commandments and statutes aka God's Law as given by God to Abraham.
■ In Moses's time, God's instructions to the people were that they live their lives in obedience to His commandments and statutes aka God's Law as He gave them to them.
■ Under Jesus Christ, we are called to live our lives in continuous submission and obedience to the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ, God's Covenant, and Law in the Kingdom of God.

The mandate from God to all men regarding His Laws remains the same as it was from the very beginning. So what exactly are you insisting has changed in all that time?

You argue alot. You should channel this energy in to converting the whole world. You will make a great evangelist.

ErnestNc:
■ You argue alot. You should channel this energy in to converting the whole world. You will make a great evangelist.

Answer the questions!

1. So, God who stated in Genesis 26 vs 6 that Abraham was justified because he, Abraham, lived His life in continuous submission and obedience to His commandments and statutes lied?

Do you mean that when we are told that Abraham simply chose to fear and obey God even as a child would obey a parent, Abraham really didn't do that?

2. If their standard does not coincide with that which is the standard set by God Himself, what relevance is their mention in this conversation that is strictly about God and His standard/Law/agreement for men to follow?

3. ■ In the beginning God gave Law to Adam — one of the important commandments found in Genesis 2 vs 15 - 17— and commanded Adam to obey His commandments and statues
■ God said Abraham lived His life in obedience to His commandments and statutes aka God's Law as given by God to Abraham.
■ In Moses's time, God's instructions to the people were that they live their lives in obedience to His commandments and statutes aka God's Law as He gave them to them.
■ Under Jesus Christ, we are called to live our lives in continuous submission and obedience to the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ, God's Covenant, and Law in the Kingdom of God.

The mandate from God to all men regarding His Laws remains the same as it was from the very beginning. So what exactly are you insisting has changed in all that time?

jesusjnr2020:
Okay you don't believe God's Word which says, "He'd judge all men according to their works" (Matthew 16:27) is the Truth? Then you don't know who the Truth is even though you claim to know Him.

Again, go and read your bible. Roman 6:15-16 and Isaiah 64: 6.

It is good to do good work. Yes God do remember the good works. But we can not claim that to be favoured. It is all down to HIS mercy.

You are not in any position to know my relationship with Christ.

BabaAduras:
■ Again, go and read your bible. Roman 6:15-16 and Isaiah 64: 6.
■ It is good to do good work. Yes God do remember the good works. But we can not claim that to be favoured. It is all down to HIS mercy.
You are not in any position to know my relationship with Christ.

1. Are you certain you have clear understanding there of what is written in those passages you quote?

15 So what should we do? Should we sin because we are under grace and not under law? Certainly not!
16 Surely you know that you become the slaves of whatever you give yourselves to. Anything or anyone you follow will be your master. You can follow sin, or you can obey God. Following sin brings spiritual death, but obeying God makes you right with him.
17 In the past you were slaves to sin—sin controlled you. But thank God, you fully obeyed what you were taught.
18 You were made free from sin, and now you are slaves to what is right.
19 I use this example from everyday life because you need help in understanding spiritual truths. In the past you offered the parts of your body to be slaves to your immoral and sinful thoughts. The result was that you lived only for sin. In the same way, you must now offer yourselves to be slaves to what is right. Then you will live only for God. - Romans 6 vs 15 - 19

Clearly, Paul there tells you that without obedience(works) to the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ — God's Constitutional Law in the Kingdom of God, you cannot be made right with God.

As for what is written in Isaiah 64, please open your eyes to the truth so you are no longer misled by the soundbites out there. Sin is disobedience of God's Law — God's teachings and commandments — and is unholy to God.

5 You welcome people who enjoy doing good and who remember you by living the way you want them to. But we sinned against you, and you became angry with us. But you always saved us!
6 We are all dirty with sin. Even our good works are not pure. They are like bloodstained rags. We are all like dead leaves. Our sins have carried us away like wind. - Isaiah 64 vs 6

What Isaiah said of the people is that their sins (unholiness) taint everything they do in service of God, including their good works, rendering it all an abomination to God — filthy and unholy in God's sight. That is what sin does to your relations — your offerings, your prayers, and yes, your good works. And that is what Isaiah meant.

2. Jesus Christ made it clear to you do not do good works, you will never enter into His Heaven - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46. And as Isaiah points out, it is impossible for you to while full of sin — unholy — do good works that are acceptable to God. What does that all mean? It means you must first meet God's standard of Holiness — be set free from slavery to sin through continuous submission and obedience to the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ, God's Truth - John 8 vs 31 - 36 - to then be transformed by the Truth of God into a Son of God, a Holy vessel worthy of God — then your good works which come after that will be acceptable(holy) to God.

Kobojunkiee:
1. Are you certain you have clear understanding there of what is written in those passages you quote?
Clearly, Paul there tells you that without obedience(works) to the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ — God's Constitutional Law in the Kingdom of God, you cannot be made right with God.

As for what is written in Isaiah 64, please open your eyes to the truth so you are no longer misled by the soundbites out there. Sin is disobedience of God's Law — God's teachings and commandments — and is unholy to God.
What Isaiah said of the people is that their sins (unholiness) taint everything they do in service of God, including their good works, rendering it all an abomination to God — filthy and unholy in God's sight. That is what sin does to your relations — your offerings, your prayers, and yes, your good works. And that is what Isaiah meant.

2. Jesus Christ made it clear to you do not do good works, you will never enter into His Heaven - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46. And as Isaiah points out, it is impossible for you to while full of sin — unholy — do good works that are acceptable to God. What does that all mean? It means you must first meet God's standard of Holiness — be set free from slavery to sin through continuous submission and obedience to the teachings and commandments of Jesus Christ, God's Truth - John 8 vs 31 - 36 - to then be transformed by the Truth of God into a Son of God, a Holy vessel worthy of God — then your good works which come after that will be acceptable(holy) to God.

There was typo error in my last response. I meant to type Romans 9:15-16.

FrancisDiote:
When God said he will have mercy upon whom he will, you think say that statement na joke?

Do not mistake God's mercy/kindness for God's righteousness. Jesus Christ explained to you in His teachings, that God pours out that very same mercy/kindness every day on the wicked and the ungrateful of mankind, the unbelievers as well. All of the benefits of God's mercy are enjoyed by even those who do not believe in God at all. Yes, even unbelievers experience happiness, and miracles in their lives, all courtesy of God's mercy and compassion on mankind.

What the thief on the cross experienced was more than God's compassion. However, it was certainly not that defined as being of the Kingdom of God, since Jesus Christ made it abundantly clear that no man will enter the Kingdom of God without being born-again.

BabaAduras:
There was typo error in my last response. I meant to type Romans 9:15-16.

In Romans 9, Paul speaks instead of God's mercy/compassion — use of individuals in the forwarding of His plan— which God made clear He pours out on all of mankind — not just those who believe in Him — every single day. Another important point is to always pay attention to the contextual message of writing in order to avoid giving a different meaning to a verse from that intended by its author as many seem to do in this case.

1. I am in Christ and I am telling you the truth. I am not lying. And my conscience, ruled by the Holy Spirit, agrees that what I say now is true.
2 I have great sorrow and always feel much sadness
3 for my own people. They are my brothers and sisters, my earthly family. I wish I could help them. I would even have a curse on me and cut myself off from Christ if that would help them.
4 They are the people of Israel, God’s chosen children. They have the glory of God and the agreements he made between himself and his people. God gave them the Law of Moses, the Temple worship, and his promises.
5 They are the descendants of our great fathers, and they are the earthly family of the Messiah, who is God over all things. Praise him forever Amen.
6 I don’t mean that God failed to keep his promise to the Jewish people. But only some of the people of Israel are really God’s people. 7 And only some of Abraham’s descendants are true children of Abraham. This is what God said to Abraham: “Your true descendants will be those who come through Isaac.”
8 This means that not all of Abraham’s descendants are God’s true children. Abraham’s true children are those who become God’s children because of the promise he made to Abraham.
9 Here is what God said in that promise: “About this time next year I will come back, and Sarah will have a son.”
10 And that is not all. Rebecca also had sons, and they had the same father. He is our father Isaac.
11-12 But before the two sons were born, God told Rebecca, “The older son will serve the younger.” This was before the boys had done anything good or bad. God said this before they were born so that the boy he wanted would be chosen because of God’s own plan. He was chosen because he was the one God wanted to call, not because of anything the boys did.
13 As the Scriptures say, “I loved Jacob, but I hated Esau.”
14 So what does this mean? That God is not fair? We cannot say that.
15 God said to Moses, “I will show mercy to anyone I want to show mercy to. I will show pity to anyone I choose.”
16 So God will choose anyone he decides to show mercy to, and his choice does not depend on what people want or try to do.
17 In the Scriptures God says to Pharaoh: “I made you king so that you could do this for me. I wanted to show my power through you. I wanted my name to be announced throughout the world.”
18 So God shows mercy to those he wants to show mercy to and makes stubborn those he wants to make stubborn.
19 So one of you will ask me, “If God controls what we do, why does he blame us for our sins?”
20 Don’t ask that. You are only human and have no right to question God. A clay jar does not question the one who made it. It does not say, “Why did you make me like this?”
21 The one who makes the jar can make anything he wants. He uses the same clay to make different things. He might make one thing for special purposes and another for daily use. - Romans 9 vs 1 - 21

In the above passage, Paul addresses the issue of God's using of people in the forwarding of His plan and intentions towards His people, Israel. Paul points out that following what God said to Moses, anyone, whether good or bad, stubborn or evil, can be used by God to forward His plan. Paul goes on to point out the example of how God used Pharaoh in forwarding His plan toward His Israel.

---

Should we confuse any of what Paul has stated in the above passage to mean that God can randomly make anyone He wants righteous simply by way of His mercy? Of course not! You should note that absolutely none of the righteous men of Old were ever granted salvation by God simply on grounds of God's mercy. God made clear in HIs Law — His standard of righteousness — to His people, that only those of them who love Him — live in submission and obedience to His teachings and commandments — that are made righteous, justified by Him through their obedience. This was true in the case of Abraham - Genesis 26 vs 5 -, for Jacob, for Moses and all the Old Prophets and same even through Jesus Christ.

jesusjnr2020:
It's a lie. They never said save me or us as the thief did. They only said save thyself. The thief asked Jesus to save him but it was the manner in which he said it that was wrong, that's why the other thief corrected him.

The teachings of Christ are very clear that salvation requires works. You can only temporarily reject the teachings of Jesus to accept those which fit your man-made narratives which appease the flesh, but at the end you would have to stand before Jesus who brought man salvation with His blood, and He will judge you according to your works not His!

Are you now more knowledgeable than Mathew as quoted above: "One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”

Does that sound like the criminal trusting in Jesus as his lord and saviour? I don't understand your insistence in such blind argument.

Again the apostle clearly said salvation is by grace and not work less any should boast, are you more knowledgeable than the apostle.

Salvation by work undermines Jesus final words: "It is finished". Nothing else is needed. Just believe and confess , and carry your cross to the end. The thing you call work, is the cross you carry daily by virtue of your acceptance of Christ. But that's just a consequence, not the source of your salvation.

Show me a single verse where were it says salvation is dependent on your work. None. You are only making inferences of the life and suffering of the saints as an example of work for salvation, but this clearly highlights your lack of understanding of the good news.

Felix6:
That means a mandate thief can be saved if He duly returned it to the owner and asked for forgiveness.

I am afraid that is an entirely wrong assumption made there by your person!

jesusjnr2020:
It's a shame that you guys think an apostle could know better than His Master who paid the price for man's sins.

It is antichrist to say that works do not play a role in getting us saved because Jesus who died for our sins Himself said He will judge us according to our works, so it doesn't matter what else someone else says to the contrary even if it be His apostle.

It is only Christ that has the right to determine that, not one else and He says He'd judge us by our works!

Work is the evidence of faith in Christ and the renewal of spirit that you have. Work is how you live your life in righteousness, carrying your cross daily. What gets you to heaven is the sacrifice of Jesus...It is final. Work is absolute consequence that follows becoming a born again.
You cannot be a Christian and dwell in sin. Your light must shine because of the renewed spirit in you. Again, you cannot be a Christian and dwell in sin, and because the world hate you, it will persecute you and you have to hate the things of the world... These are all works a Christian must do as evidence of their faith... But these are not what take you to heaven, only the sufficient blood of Christ does, but again, you cannot go to heaven without work because you cannot love Jesus and the world at the same time .

Kobojunkiee:
1. I refuted what exactly?

2. Where in scripture is this spiritual bullsheet you claim expressed as a possibility in scripture?,

The thief said: "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom"

He already confessed Jesus as Lord and he believed in the resurrection.

The bible said if you'll confess with your mouth that he is the lord and believed in your heart that was raised from the dead, then you shall be saved. You can see the theief confessed Jesus and believed in his resurrection.

Now this refutes your understanding of born again as mere baptism... Baptism symbolises the moment, but the real spiritual renewal and rebirth is the acceptance of Jesus as lord and saviour.
To buttress, the thief clearly has not being baptized, yet saved because he already received a renewal of spirit. By accepting Jesus, he was born again.

justli:
■ Rom 10: The condition for redemption is straight forward if we don't go stretching: Believe that he is the Lord, crucified and raised, and confess him as your lord. No work needed.

I cannot stress the importance of paying attention to the contextual message intended by a writer before we make these leaps in supposed logic.

---

Paul, beginning from verse 1 of that passage of Romans 10 begins by stating the conditions of his people under the Old Law. Then in verse 4 he expressed his belief that Christ ended the Old Law in order that everyone who believes in HIm may be made right with God — not in Jesus Christ.
In verse 5 of Romans 10, Paul references God's statement from the Law revealing that trust and obedience to God's commandments and statutes — faith — was in fact God's mandate even to His people of Old.

1 The Lord said to Moses,
2 “Tell the Israelites: I am the Lord your God.
3 You must not follow the customs of Egypt where you lived, and you must not follow the customs of the Canaanites where I am leading you. You must not live the way they do.
4 You must obey my rules and follow my laws. Be sure to follow my rules because I am the Lord your God.
5 You must obey my rules and my laws, because whoever obeys them will live. I am the Lord. - Leviticus 18 vs 5

In verse 6-8 of Romans 10, Paul quotes another important teaching from the Old Law of Moses where God made clear that the commands He had given them to obey were in their hearts for them to obey, again, stressing the need for them to trust and obey — faith.

11 “This command that I give you today is not too hard for you. It is not a secret hidden in some far away land.
12 This command is not in heaven so that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us and bring it to us, so that we can hear and do it?’
13 This command is not on the other side of the sea so that you should say, ‘Who will go across the sea for us and bring it to us so that we can hear it and do it?’
14 No, the word is very near to you. It is in your mouth and in your heart. So you can obey it. - Deuteronomy 30 vs 11 - 14

Jesus Christ, the one who did, in fact, come down from Heaven, made reference to God's message in Deuteronomy 30 vs 11 - 14 when He proclaimed, conversation with Nicodemus, that He is the one come down from Heaven, the teaching from God that the people ought also to obey.

10 Jesus said, “You are an important teacher of Israel, and you still don’t understand these things?
11 The truth is, we talk about what we know. We tell about what we have seen. But you people don’t accept what we tell you.
12 I have told you about things here on earth, but you do not believe me. So I’m sure you will not believe me if I tell you about heavenly things!
13 The only one who has ever gone up to heaven is the one who came down from heaven—the Son of Man.
14 “Moses lifted up the snake in the desert. It is the same with the Son of Man. He must be lifted up too.
15 Then everyone who believes in him can have eternal life.”
16 Yes, God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him would not be lost but have eternal life. - John 3 vs 10 - 16

So, as Jesus Christ said, those who believe in Him will have eternal life— grace— which is given as salvation from Death, the consequence or judgment against them by God's Old Law — not to be confused with righteousness by the Law that is Jesus Christ. All those who believe are saved i.e. justified by the standard that is God's Old Law which Jesus Christ ended by offering them Life in place of the Old penalty.

The act of believing which constitutes trust and obedience to God's commandment or rule or statute also constitutes the doing of work. More importantly, be well aware of how all of this is said in reference to God's Old Law, and not the Kingdom of God.

justli:
■ The thief said: "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom" He already confessed Jesus as Lord and he believed in the resurrection.
■ The bible said if you'll confess with your mouth that he is the lord and believed in your heart that was raised from the dead, then you shall be saved. You can see the theief confessed Jesus and believed in his resurrection.
■ Now this refutes your understanding of born again as mere baptism... Baptism symbolises the moment, but the real spiritual renewal and rebirth is the acceptance of Jesus as lord and saviour.
■ To buttress, the thief clearly has not being baptized, yet saved because he already received a renewal of spirit. By accepting Jesus, he was born again.

1. Yes, I know what the thief said, but what He said does not change what God Himself decreed.

2. The Bible did not say that as instead Jesus Christ is instead the one who said that like the serpent in the wilderness, He will be raised up and all those condemned to die that would look up and believe in Him would not perish but have eternal life - John 3 vs 10 - 16. Jesus, however, did not say they would be born-again by that since in the same John 3 Jesus Christ, prior to speaking in reference to the Old Law, made it emphatically clear that no man can enter into the Kingdom of God i.e. become born-again without being born of water and born of the spirit of eternal life.

3. I beg to differ because you seem to be the one mistaking what is stated for what it isn't. Baptism does not symbolize a moment, not according to Jesus Christ who instead made clear that all must be — without exception — born of water and of Spirit in this life before they can then enter into the Kingdom of God. This means anyone who is not born of water and born of Spirit cannot enter the Kingdom of God. So, you need to decide whether you believe Jesus Christ or whether you believe instead in the stories in your head which clearly oppose Jesus Christ's very own declaration regarding entry into His own Kingdom.

4. Answer this for yourself.
What was the thief saved from? How could the thief have received what you call a renewal of spirit when Jesus Christ said that only to be born of spirit applies only to those who enter into the Kingdom of God? Are you saying Jesus Christ who made said all that in the context of His conversation with Nicodemus lied?

BabaAduras:
Again, go and read your bible. Roman 6:15-16 and Isaiah 64: 6.

It is good to do good work. Yes God do remember the good works. But we can not claim that to be favoured. It is all down to HIS mercy.

You are not in any position to know my relationship with Christ.

Reading your Bible is not enough as clearly proven by you who after much reading can't still comprehend or accept the simple truth .

Is is not the Bible that said this?

Jonah 3:10 (KJV)

AND GOD SAW THEIR WORKS, THAT THEY TURNED FROM THEIR EVIL WAY; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

If their works saved them from being destroyed by God and God still says He'd judge every man according to His works, why won't you still believe that works could not save man from damnation?

Man needs God's mercy and grace, but that alone cannot save anyone who refused to truly repent and turn from his evil way, and that is work.

Tomorrow you'd still come and talk about studying the Bible when you refused to believe what the Bible says.

justli:
Are you now more knowledgeable than Mathew as quoted above: "One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”

Does that sound like the criminal trusting in Jesus as his lord and saviour? I don't understand your insistence in such blind argument.

Again the apostle clearly said salvation is by grace and not work less any should boast, are you more knowledgeable than the apostle.

Salvation by work undermines Jesus final words: "It is finished". Nothing else is needed. Just believe and confess , and carry your cross to the end. The thing you call work, is the cross you carry daily by virtue of your acceptance of Christ. But that's just a consequence, not the source of your salvation.

Show me a single verse where were it says salvation is dependent on your work. None. You are only making inferences of the life and suffering of the saints as an example of work for salvation, but this clearly highlights your lack of understanding of the good news.

What's the insult there but "save thyself and us" if you're the Messiah? Even the translation you use is quite misleading, yet it couldn't alter the fact that the thief asked Jesus to save him, which yet proves you were wrong to say that thief didn't ask Jesus to save him, because he did even though the way he did it was wrong as I said earlier.

Even little children are taught better ways to make requests especially to their seniors, like adding "please" to "give me" instead of "give me" which sounds insulting.

That doesn't mean they didn't mean what they asked for.

So it's you that is blindly debating the fact that thief asked Jesus to save him when he clearly did even though he didn't do it properly or respectfully, hence the correction.

Moreover, boasting isn't enough reason to make a false claim that works is not crucial to one's salvation when Jesus Himself had said so severally, because such an erroneous idea which only appeases the flesh, has only succeeded in emboldening sinners and given them something to boast about in their sinful lifestyle, instead of making them repent and to turn from their evil ways.

Again, i repeat, just incase you didn't get it the first time, an apostle can never be more knowledgeable than Christ His Master, the one who died for man's salvation, who made it clear on several occasions that He's is going to judge every man according to his works not grace, so if you say you haven't seen any verse in the Bible that says we're going to be saved according to our works, it because you chose to remain blind to it, not because it's not there.

Revelation 20:12-13 (KJV)

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Here's another instance in the Bible that clearly proves salvation by works in the Bible, but if you like continue to blindly arguing that there's no verse in the Bible that says that.

Jonah 3:10 (KJV)

AND GOD SAW THEIR WORKS, THAT THEY TURNED FROM THEIR EVIL WAY; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

And please spare me the excuse that this it is not in the new testament, except you think that God can change His ways, because it's the same God that says He's judge every man according to His works at the end that did that to the people of Nineveh.

justli:
Work is the evidence of faith in Christ and the renewal of spirit that you have. Work is how you live your life in righteousness, carrying your cross daily. What gets you to heaven is the sacrifice of Jesus...It is final. Work is absolute consequence that follows becoming a born again.
You cannot be a Christian and dwell in sin. Your light must shine because of the renewed spirit in you. Again, you cannot be a Christian and dwell in sin, and because the world hate you, it will persecute you and you have to hate the things of the world... These are all works a Christian must do as evidence of their faith... But these are not what take you to heaven, only the sufficient blood of Christ does, but again, you cannot go to heaven without work because you cannot love Jesus and the world at the same time .

Mr man, stop arguing blindly what you don't know about. You're not to the one decide what would be final in heaven but Jesus who died for man's sins, and Jesus said He's judge every man according to the person' works, not His grace.

Also stop this ignorant argument that someone cannot be a Christian and continue in sin. Haven't you seen many Christians who believe Jesus is Lord and Saviour, yet continue to sin? Jesus said He's turn many of them back on that day because of their works of iniquity, so this idea wouldn't help anyone but only justify sinners and make sin to abound.

People need to know that they must repent and turn away from their wicked ways for them to be saved from eternal damnation.

Jesus said, "repent or perish", so there's no point dancing around that truth. Works are very essential for anyone's salvation. If you don't have works of repentance or righteousness, you perish! Kapish!

Kobojunkiee:
I am afraid that is an entirely wrong assumption made there by your person!

I like how you managed to hold body (pretend) to still sound correct. Tru tru the opium of the masses na .........

jesusjnr2020:
Mr man, stop arguing blindly what you don't know about. You're not to the one decide what would be final in heaven but Jesus who died for man's sins, and Jesus said He's judge every man according to the person' works, not His grace.

Also stop this ignorant argument that someone cannot be a Christian and continue in sin. Haven't you seen many Christians who believe Jesus is Lord and Saviour, yet continue to sin? Jesus said He's turn many of them back on that day because of their works of iniquity, so this idea wouldn't help anyone but only justify sinners and make sin to abound.

People need to know that they must repent and turn away from their wicked ways for them to be saved from eternal damnation.

Jesus said, "repent or perish", so there's no point dancing around that truth. Works are very essential for anyone's salvation. If you don't have works of repentance or righteousness, you perish! Kapish!

You just talk with no verse citation... Obviously stating what you've been told and lacking in humility to learn and grow. Repent or perish, absolutely.
If someone claimd to be born again and dwell in sin, they are deceiving themselves because they don't have the spirit of God in them. Every born again is repentant Christian , not because they work like the Pharisees and Muslims, but because they have a new spirit that abhors sin .

The renewal of spirit is that you have a newness that hates sin, so you hate your old ways --- this is the york of Christ that is light... You cannot work your way to righteousness

jesusjnr2020:
What's the insult there but "save thyself and us" if you're the Messiah? Even the translation you use is quite misleading, yet it couldn't alter the fact that the thief asked Jesus to save him, which yet proves you were wrong to say that thief didn't ask Jesus to save him, because he did even though the way he did it was wrong as I said earlier.

Even little children are taught better ways to make requests especially to their seniors, like adding "please" to "give me" instead of "give me" which sounds insulting.

That doesn't mean they didn't mean what they asked for.

So it's you that is blindly debating the fact that thief asked Jesus to save him when he clearly did even though he didn't do it properly or respectfully, hence the correction.

Moreover, boasting isn't enough reason to make a false claim that works is not crucial to one's salvation when Jesus Himself had said so severally, because such an erroneous idea which only appeases the flesh, has only succeeded in emboldening sinners and given them something to boast about in their sinful lifestyle, instead of making them repent and to turn from their evil ways.

Again, i repeat, just incase you didn't get it the first time, an apostle can never be more knowledgeable than Christ His Master, the one who died for man's salvation, who made it clear on several occasions that He's is going to judge every man according to his works not grace, so if you say you haven't seen any verse in the Bible that says we're going to be saved according to our works, it because you chose to remain blind to it, not because it's not there.

Revelation 20:12-13 (KJV)

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Here's another instance in the Bible that clearly proves salvation by works in the Bible, but if you like continue to blindly arguing that there's no verse in the Bible that says that.

Jonah 3:10 (KJV)

AND GOD SAW THEIR WORKS, THAT THEY TURNED FROM THEIR EVIL WAY; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

And please spare me the excuse that this it is not in the new testament, except you think that God can change His ways, because it's the same God that says He's judge every man according to His works at the end that did that to the people of Nineveh.

Good luck with your understanding of doing kingdom's work. Someday, you'll understand why Jesus said, "Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. [29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. [30] For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. "

Kobojunkiee:
1. Yes, I know what the thief said, but what He said does not change what God Himself decreed.

2. The Bible did not say that as instead Jesus Christ is instead the one who said that like the serpent in the wilderness, He will be raised up and all those condemned to die that would look up and believe in Him would not perish but have eternal life - John 3 vs 10 - 16. Jesus, however, did not say they would be born-again by that since in the same John 3 Jesus Christ, prior to speaking in reference to the Old Law, made it emphatically clear that no man can enter into the Kingdom of God i.e. become born-again without being born of water and born of the spirit of eternal life.

3. I beg to differ because you seem to be the one mistaking what is stated for what it isn't. Baptism does not symbolize a moment, not according to Jesus Christ who instead made clear that all must be — without exception — born of water and of Spirit in this life before they can then enter into the Kingdom of God. This means anyone who is not born of water and born of Spirit cannot enter the Kingdom of God. So, you need to decide whether you believe Jesus Christ or whether you believe instead in the stories in your head which clearly oppose Jesus Christ's very own declaration regarding entry into His own Kingdom.

4. Answer this for yourself.
What was the thief saved from? How could the thief have received what you call a renewal of spirit when Jesus Christ said that only to be born of spirit applies only to those who enter into the Kingdom of God? Are you saying Jesus Christ who made said all that in the context of His conversation with Nicodemus lied?

The verse in front of you clearly said the theif hurled insults on. Now you are going to tell us the translation is wrong even though three books of the gospel said the same thing, yet you didn't bring any translation that said otherwise.

justli:
■ The verse in front of you clearly said the theif hurled insults on. Now you are going to tell us the translation is wrong even though three books of the gospel said the same thing, yet you didn't bring any translation that said otherwise.

My response has nothing to do with the other thief on the cross.

justli:
Good luck with your understanding of doing kingdom's work. Someday, you'll understand why Jesus said, "Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. [29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. [30] For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. "

What you just quoted emanated from Jesus who said He'd judge every man according to his works, so if you think that saying exempts you from His requirement of works, you think wrong.

Don't have any worksHe requires when you appear before Him and you'd understand He didn't mean what you thought.

justli:
You just talk with no verse citation... Obviously stating what you've been told and lacking in humility to learn and grow. Repent or perish, absolutely.
If someone claimd to be born again and dwell in sin, they are deceiving themselves because they don't have the spirit of God in them. Every born again is repentant Christian , not because they work like the Pharisees and Muslims, but because they have a new spirit that abhors sin .

The renewal of spirit is that you have a newness that hates sin, so you hate your old ways --- this is the york of Christ that is light... You cannot work your way to righteousness

Is verse citation now your own excuse? What have you done with the ones I quoted? If you didn't believe all the ones I already quoted is it if I quoted another that you would believe?

Thank God I have already proven to you that your belief that works cannot save anyone is not just unbiblical but also antichrist.

If you don't want to believe the Truth that has been proven to you beyond any reasonable doubt, it's because your heart's hardened against the Truth not something else.

By the way, there's no humility in preaching falsehood even though it appeals to the flesh and pleases men.

If you think saying "repent or perish" means a lack of humility, that shows how ignorant you are of true humility because that's exactly what Jesus did.

Luke 13:3 (KJV)

"...UNLESS YOU REPENT YOU WILL ALL LIKEWISE PERISH."

Luke 13:5 (KJV)

"...UNLESS YOU REPENT YOU WILL ALL LIKEWISE PERISH.”

@Jesusjunior, where has Jesus said he’d judge every man according to His works?


'For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. '

Matthew 16:26-27

Why twist the scripture to fit your own narrative?

madegreatbygrace:
@Jesusjunior, where has Jesus said he’d judge every man according to His works?


'For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. '

Matthew 16:26-27

Why twist the scripture to fit your own narrative?

You already quoted it but still couldn't see it because you've chosen to remain perpetually blinded to the Truth.

What's the difference between that which you quoted and this below if not that you're the one guilty of the bolded and not those you falsely accuse?

Revelation 20:12-13 (KJV)

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

As least now you don't have any more excuses to continue in your falsehood if you're really sincere.

According to the Bible, what saved the thief on the cross was his faith in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, and his acknowledgement of his own sins and need for salvation, as he said to Jesus, "Remember me when you come into your kingdom" (Luke 23:42). Jesus then responded, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43), indicating that the thief's repentance and faith had granted him eternal life. [url=https://www.localcashpropertybuyers.com/sanantonio-tx.html rel="do follow"]sell my house fast san antonio[/url]

bobbrencher01:
■ According to the Bible, what saved the thief on the cross was his faith in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, and his acknowledgement of his own sins and need for salvation,
■ as he said to Jesus, "Remember me when you come into your kingdom" (Luke 23:42). Jesus then responded, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43), indicating that the thief's repentance and faith had granted him eternal life.

1. But Jesus Christ never said "faith" alone in him can save anyone, and when I say faith, I mean mental assent which is typical among those of you of the religion of Christianity.

2. The very same Jesus Christ made clear in His teachings that everyone must be born again. If
■ everyone must be born-again, and
■ no man can enter into the Kingdom of God except he is born-again,
then surely, the salvation that the thief on the cross obtained was not that which had to do with the Kingdom of God but of another Kingdom entirely.

bobbrencher01:
According to the Bible, what saved the thief on the cross was his faith in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, and his acknowledgement of his own sins and need for salvation, as he said to Jesus, "Remember me when you come into your kingdom" (Luke 23:42). Jesus then responded, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43), indicating that the thief's repentance and faith had granted him eternal life. [url=https://www.localcashpropertybuyers.com/sanantonio-tx.html rel="do follow"]sell my house fast san antonio[/url]

This is Wrong! Do you recall what Jesus Christ in fact told the thief on the cross?

39 One of the criminals hanging there began to shout insults at Jesus: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Then save yourself, and save us too!”
40 But the other criminal stopped him. He said, “You should fear God. All of us will die soon.
41 You and I are guilty. We deserve to die because we did wrong. But this man has done nothing wrong.”
42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you begin ruling as king!”
43 Then Jesus said to him, “I promise you, today you will be with me in paradise.” - Luke 23 vs 39 - 43

Paradise is where Jesus Christ was that same day, right? Well, according to Jesus Christ Himself, He was in the grave, that day and the 2 days that followed that day.

21 From that time Jesus began telling his followers that he must go to Jerusalem. He explained that the older Jewish leaders, the leading priests, and the teachers of the law would make him suffer many things. And he told his followers that he must be killed. Then, on the third day, he would be raised from death.- Matthew 16 vs 21

...

32 Jesus and those with him were on their way to Jerusalem. He was at the front of the group. His followers were wondering what was happening, and the people who followed behind them were feeling afraid. Jesus gathered the twelve apostles again and talked with them alone. He told them what would happen in Jerusalem.
33 He said, “We are going to Jerusalem. The Son of Man will be handed over to the leading priests and teachers of the law. They will say that he must die and will hand him over to the foreigners,
34 who will laugh at him and spit on him. They will beat him with whips and kill him. But on the third day after his death, he will rise to life again.”. - Mark 10 vs 32 - 34

...

22 Then Jesus said, “The Son of Man must suffer many things. He will be rejected by the older Jewish leaders, the leading priests, and teachers of the law. And he will be killed. But after three days he will be raised from death.” - Luke 9 vs 22

What all that means is that Paradise is simply a reference to the grave where Jesus Christ was for 3 days.