₦airaland Forum

Dtruthspeaker:
Sure.



My number 1 Answer is because it is His House and He can put whatever He likes in it, exactly as you have hypo/sniper and gas cookers and knives and electricity in your house, even though you foreknow that they can kill your children.

But you also foreknow that if they listen to you, they would not be harmed, so no problem.

Just like a man would leave electricity on, hypo bleach around, hot water and oil on the table. Knowing a 3 year old is around. And whats more, he knew already that the 3 year old would die from the hot oil.
Makes perfect sense

Dtruthspeaker:
I have just shown you an example and a case where you were all knowing.



Inspite of that our children have tried plucking our ceiling fans, eating soaps and drinking kerosene to their deaths. And you were aware that all these could happen.

So, judge yourself, are you irresponsible and stupid for having all these things in your house?

Yup

NNTR:
You mistake, what is pure and adulterated guesswork for omniscience and equate it to mean know-all, see-all

I'll repeat here so you'll notice.
Adam was not a child.
Adam was capable of doing the right thing.
Adam was not deceived.
Adam betrayed the trust placed in him

I dont see your answer to this question

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

How? What trust? Yahweh already knew he'd fall.
Are you saying Yahweh aint omniscient?
You chrissies keep shooting yourself in the foot

Steep:
Yes God knew Adam and eve would fall but however it is as a result of their choices. God gave man ability to make choices and he would not hamper that ability even if it is evil but rather man would be held accountable.

God gave man free will so that man could fellowship with him. Free will means that we can choose to follow God or reject him, God desires those who would worship him in truth and in spirit.

However, God put things in place to enable man make the right choice eg by giving Him his laws.

God knows that man would fall and he prepares salvation for man through christ sacrifice.

God ordained Jesus to be our salvation before creation started.

The real damnation lies in rejecting God's salvation because there is no other salvation plan apart from Jesus.


Take note in everything God does he did not change the ordinal design of giving man free will because that is what he desires but he provided means for us to be saved from our bad choices which is Jesus Christ and his finished work on the cross.

You keep hot oil on a table. A toddler knocks it over and gets a major burns which kills him. And whats more, you knew that hot oil would kill the poor boy, but that didn't stop you from keeping it.
Yep. Lets blame that toddler

MaxInDHouse:
Why not ask for the explanation?

Well you're an atheist so for the benefit of others who wants to know, God is telling His servants to be courageous because no matter the evil bad people scheme it's not beyond what He created so He has the power to undo it all.
Take for instance Nebuchadnezzar through God's servants into a burning furnace after heating it seven times only for the Creator of fire to change the gases and turn it to air-conditioner for Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego.
Again God's enemies threw Daniel into the lions den only for the Creator to turn lions into domestic pets for His faithful friend.

So He created the good and evil simply means He has the power to change what we know as evil (destructive) like fire to good (air-conditioner)

May you have PEACE!

What do you understand by 'Creating evil? '
Use your brain and think

Aemmyjah:
Answer is NO
Remwmber that Angels too sinned by marrying wives and bearing hybrid offspring
Will you say that when God was creating the woman, Eve (which was to complement the man), he did that knowing that some angels would have an affair with some of the children?
Reason am

Relevant Verses where yahweh said he's omniscient

Psalm 147:5
Great is our Lord and abundant in strength;
His understanding is infinite.

1 John 3:20
in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things.

Psalm 139:4
Even before there is a word on my tongue,
Behold, O Lord, You know it all.

Matthew 10:30
But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

Psalm 147:4
He counts the number of the stars;
He gives names to all of them

jaephoenix:
You mean yahweh doesn't know the future?

did u even read what i wrote at all....God didn't expect them to fall for the serpent's trick despite the warning he gave them prior to that tree and fruit

jaephoenix:
What do you understand by 'Creating evil? '
Use your brain and think

Creating evil simply means creating what can cause harm!

jaephoenix:
So why did yahweh do it, knowing already Adam would fall?

Jeremiah 29:11
For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD,
thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.

Without needing to reinvent the wheel, I will advance the response given to schoolboymatt, where similar question was asked

There are inexhaustible reasons for why God did go ahead to create man, knowing fully well that man will disobey Him, and go into a spiral of degradation, loss of pride, diminished self worth et cetera.

Some of the reasons are:
1. It is how the proverbial, separate the men from the boys operates
2. Confidence in one's abilities to have everything under control and power to fix things so they dont run out of control
3. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, meaning Adam for the benefit of all, needed to be seen test run
4. It will be unfair and unjust to say Adam has the gift of freewill, and not have the so call freewill be tested, tested by giving him, alternatives (i.e. choices)
5. Having a contingency plan or equally having a back-up plan helps
6. Being omnipotent and omniscient certainly comes in handy

God lets and allows things to happen for other reasons, aside the listed six above.

Creativity is to be encouraged and not stifled or muzzled. Adam notwithstanding, his shortcoming, and/or fallibility has the fundamental right to be birth into existence, and exercising a fundamental human right of freedom of expressing himself, hence the reason why God forged ahead to create Adam

Every good thing in life, takes time to achieve, being that everything in life goes through a process. Now, Adam, just as like every other potentially good thing, would require to be processed, be subjected to action(s) or steps taken in order to see him achieve a particular desired end (i.e. Jeremiah 29:11)

Life is a journey to be experienced, and it cant be experienced, if not in it. The process of Adam, is the most important part of the journey, being its all a learning process journey

jaephoenix:
How?

His capability

jaephoenix:
What trust?

He was trusted with the tasks of giving names to animals in accordance to how what genus he deemed they fit , however the trust to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, he did not keep, simply by flagrantly violating God's commanding when he refused to comply with it

jaephoenix:
Yahweh already knew he'd fall.
Are you saying Yahweh aint omniscient?
You chrissies keep shooting yourself in the foot

The fall of Adam, isnt the end of Adam and there is nothing in this world that can stop the work of God.

Where mere, puny mortal human beings, seeing how Adam will end up to do, will baulk and shirk at going ahead with the human being creation project., God isnt like that. God forged through with his plan and desire because He knows, that He has everything under control

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

jaephoenix:
You keep hot oil on a table. A toddler knocks it over and gets a major burns which kills him. And whats more, you knew that hot oil would kill the poor boy, but that didn't stop you from keeping it.
Yep. Lets blame that toddler

Your analogy is daft. A toddler has no knowledge of what he is doing unlike an adult.

schoolboymatt:
so Man was created to fall, just so He could be offered salvation?

I am confused sir.

So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.1Cor15:45
The first Adam was a shadow/prototype of the last Adam who is the main purpose from the beginning.

schoolboymatt:
but why?

So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous, and good. Rom7:12
The law and commandments are Holy. Adam was created purely without sin. but there's nothing Holy in him to uphold God's moral command. God told him DO NOT EAT JUST ONE FRUIT, in the whole garden, But he still ate it. Why? Because there's nothing Holy in him to uphold Gods command.
Same with the children of Israel .
There's nothing holy in them to keep His commandments.
Ithe Holy Spirit in a believer aids him to uphold His laws.

Steep:
Your analogy is daft. A toddler has no knowledge of what he is doing unlike an adult.

No it isnt. Adam had no knowledge of good and evil. Matter of fact, the odds are stacked against him. Hes competing against the devil who is omnipotent, omniscient etc. What does poor Adam have to fight him?
And remember yahweh created this devil and knew he's gonna bring down Adam and mankind, but he went "Fvck it, iont care"

ichuka:
So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous, and good. Rom7:12
The law and commandments are Holy. Adam was created purely without sin. but there's nothing Holy in him to uphold God's moral command. God told him DO NOT EAT JUST ONE FRUIT, in the whole garden, But he still ate it. Why? Because there's nothing Holy in him to uphold Gods command.
Same with the children of Israel .
There's nothing holy in them to keep His commandments.
Ithe Holy Spirit in a believer aids him to uphold His laws.

Who created that tree, gave it luscious fruits, placed it in the middle of the garden where Adam would be admiring it?
And of course he created Adam(with all these frailties you listed) knowing he'll fail, and still kept that tree near him.
Tell me who's to blame?
A. Adam?
B. Jaephoenix
C. Ichuka
D. Yahweh

jaephoenix:
Who created that tree, gave it luscious fruits, placed it in the middle of the garden where Adam would be admiring it?
And of course he created Adam(with all these frailties you listed) knowing he'll fail, and still kept that tree near him.
Tell me who's to blame?
A. Adam?
B. Jaephoenix
C. Ichuka
D. Yahweh

It's not a literal fruit but choice either to live and let live or enforce his opinion on others as their ruler setting standards for right and wrong.

That's what it means and only God supposed to set standards so different fruits in the garden refers to whatever Adam will like to do but the fruit of good and evil means setting standards as ruler over other humans!

jaephoenix:
No it isnt. Adam had no knowledge of good and evil. Matter of fact, the odds are stacked against him. Hes competing against the devil who is omnipotent, omniscient etc. What does poor Adam have to fight him?
And remember yahweh created this devil and knew he's gonna bring down Adam and mankind, but he went "Fvck it, iont care"

Adam had no knowledge of good and evil by himself however he had to depend on God to know what is good and what is evil, so he was accountable to that.
Satan is not omniscient, omnipresent etc Adam was well equipped to defeat the devil.
First God gave him authority over the earth meaning Satan has zero power on earth secondly God told Adam before hand the consequence of eating from the tree.

jaephoenix:
Just like a man would leave electricity on, hypo bleach around, hot water and oil on the table. Knowing a 3 year old is around. And whats more, he knew already that the 3 year old would die from the hot oil.
Makes perfect sense

And we have all left these things and worse so many times through the life of our 3 year oldd, yet our sweet 3 year olds have all grown into a 47 and 80 year olds and married with their own children who have also grown and passed your 3 year old mark and have also married and had their own children, in spite of these acts

So, you guys are talking absolute rubbish and you people are just Irresponsible excuse making bastards, who do not deserve the life you have been given.

jaephoenix:
The phone makers aren't omniscient. They are human. Yahweh is supposedly a god, and an omniscient one at that. So he knows his creation would sin and rebel, yet went ahead to create them

Over their phones they are, which is he warns, don't go into direct sunlight and stupid phones will not listen.

NNTR:
1. According to your understanding, does God do guess?
2. Does God know exactly what, you'll type in 10 minutes time?
3. Does God know what time tonight you'll fall asleep?

Knowing is very different from guessing.

Guessing means you are not sure of whatever you know but in knowing, you know what you know, hence the clear example which gave i which no one has answered.

So God knows, exactly as you know that by 4;00pm your children coming back from secondary school will be very very hungry and would certainly need to eat.

jaephoenix:
Who created that tree of knowledge? Yahweh.
Did he know Adam would succumb to it? Yep.
Then why create it? <crickets>

the tree of knowledge isn't some physical tree.
It's a metaphor to something.

schoolboymatt:
■ so Man was created to fall, just so He could be offered salvation?
I am confused sir.

No. If Adam had obeyed God, he would have eventually obtained eternal life and the Knowledge of good and evil. But because he tried to steal it instead from God, he ended up cursed and in need of saving.

Sin is a human construct...

Except you mean that God made a mistake..

Then I can take that up with you...

God created us with freedom of choice...he expects us to exercise it...

So whatever we can do is the capacity God has given us...

schoolboymatt:
■ the tree of knowledge isn't some physical tree.
It's a metaphor to something.

Whether physical or metaphorical isn't what matters. The point is Adam tried to obtain that which belonged to God by other means and ended up cursed for it. He knowing full well the consequence of his choice went for it anyways.

NNTR:
1. According to your understanding, does God do guess?
2. Does God know exactly what, you'll type in 10 minutes time?
3. Does God know what time tonight you'll fall asleep?

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Dtruthspeaker:
Knowing is very different from guessing.

Guessing means you are not sure of whatever you know but in knowing, you know what you know, hence the clear example which gave i which no one has answered.

So God knows, exactly as you know that by 4;00pm your children coming back from secondary school will be very very hungry and would certainly need to eat.

Instead of pandering to your ignoble instincts, please kindly and exactly, give your answers to questions #1 to #3

1. According to your understanding, does God do guess?
2. Does God know exactly what, you'll type in 10 minutes time?
3. Does God know what time tonight you'll fall asleep?

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
Instead of pandering to your ignoble instincts, please kindly and exactly, give your answers to questions #1 to #3

1. According to your understanding, does God do guess?
2. Does God know exactly what, you'll type in 10 minutes time?
3. Does God know what time tonight you'll fall asleep?...

I have given you the practical use and distinction between guessing and knowledge and it is your right to use it to obtain understanding or reject it. and continue speaking erroneously, for their was no clock and watch in the Bible's day, so all these specific times you lay is not as important as you think.

sonmvayina:
Sin is a human construct...

Sin is a biblical truth

sonmvayina:
Except you mean that God made a mistake..

Then I can take that up with you...

God doesnt make mistake(s), people like Adam, people like sonmvayina, you do

sonmvayina:
God created us with freedom of choice...he expects us to exercise it...

What use is freedom of choice, if there isnt an alternative choice on offer

sonmvayina:
So whatever we can do is the capacity God has given us...

Genesis 4:6-7
6And the LORD said to Cain,
“Why are you so angry? And why do you look annoyed?
7If you do well [believing Me and doing what is acceptable and pleasing to Me], will you not be accepted?
And if you do not do well [but ignore My instruction], sin crouches at your door;
its desire is for you [to overpower you], but you must master it.”

Rome wasn't built in a day. The capacity to become a copy or copies of God, wont happen in matter of a day nor two. It takes time, rather years, even a lifetime, to master a skill, craft, habit, even certainly sin

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Dtruthspeaker:
My number 1 Answer is because it is His House and He can put whatever He likes in it, exactly as you have hypo/sniper and gas cookers and knives and electricity in your house, even though you foreknow that they can kill your children.

But you also foreknow that if they listen to you, they would not be harmed, so no problem.

We human beings are not foreknowing like God is, so to circumvent that handicap, guessing that eventualities might happen, we aiming to be responsible, put hypo/sniper, hot pots on gas cookers knives and electrical stuffs like hot iron in our homes, well out of children's hands to reach to and we even make sure that electrical sockets et cetera are barricaded off, so that accidentally touching them or mischievously poking objects into them and get electrocuted, would at least with that much safeguarding effort be prevented

Now, being that God was aware of before it happened (i.e. foreknew), that Adam would disobey His expressed command not to eat from the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, do you then, think it was not only a stupid God idea but also is, irresponsible of God, to have exposed, adult Adam, to the danger of an unprotected from dangerous Tree of knowledge of Good and Evil?

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
Sin is a biblical truth

God doesnt make mistake(s), people like Adam, people like sonmvayina, you do

What use is freedom of choice, if there isnt an alternative choice on offer

Genesis 4:6-7
6And the LORD said to Cain,
“Why are you so angry? And why do you look annoyed?
7If you do well [believing Me and doing what is acceptable and pleasing to Me], will you not be accepted?
And if you do not do well [but ignore My instruction], sin crouches at your door;
its desire is for you [to overpower you], but you must master it.”

Rome wasn't built in a day. The capacity to become a copy or copies of God, wont happen in matter of a day nor two. It takes time, rather years, even a lifetime, to master a skill, craft, habit, even certainly sin

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Bible was written by men..

Therefore a human construct....

NNTR:
Sin is a biblical truth

God doesnt make mistake(s), people like Adam, people like sonmvayina, you do

What use is freedom of choice, if there isnt an alternative choice on offer

Genesis 4:6-7
6And the LORD said to Cain,
“Why are you so angry? And why do you look annoyed?
7If you do well [believing Me and doing what is acceptable and pleasing to Me], will you not be accepted?
And if you do not do well [but ignore My instruction], sin crouches at your door;
its desire is for you [to overpower you], but you must master it.”

Rome wasn't built in a day. The capacity to become a copy or copies of God, wont happen in matter of a day nor two. It takes time, rather years, even a lifetime, to master a skill, craft, habit, even certainly sin

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Bible was written by men..

Therefore a human construct....

Nature(God) knows no such..

NNTR:
We human beings are not foreknowing like God is, so to circumvent that handicap, guessing that eventualities might happen, we aiming to be responsible, put hypo/sniper, hot pots on gas cookers knives and electrical stuffs like hot iron in our homes, well out of children's hands to reach to and we even make sure that electrical sockets et cetera are barricaded off,...]

You are just repeating yourself.

I have showed you how we are foreknowing just like God. Thus, there is no excuse or blame. Neither did you hear that the trespasser say "I did it because it was unprotected"

You people have no excuse whatsoever and that is why people are always going to die because of the foolishness of making excuses instead of acting responsibly and taking responsibility.

schoolboymatt:
the tree of knowledge isn't some physical tree.
It's a metaphor to something.

Lol. How do you know its a metaphor?

MaxInDHouse:
It's not a literal fruit but choice either to live and let live or enforce his opinion on others as their ruler setting standards for right and wrong.

That's what it means and only God supposed to set standards so different fruits in the garden refers to whatever Adam will like to do but the fruit of good and evil means setting standards as ruler over other humans!

Its not a literal fruit? Well, how do you know that?