₦airaland Forum

jaephoenix:
Its not a literal fruit? Well, how do you know that?

jaephoenix:
Are you saying Yahweh isn't omniscient?

jaephoenix:
How? What trust? Yahweh already knew he'd fall.
Are you saying Yahweh aint omniscient?
You chrissies keep shooting yourself in the foot

Steep:
Yes God knew Adam and eve would fall but however it is as a result of their choices. God gave man ability to make choices and he would not hamper that ability even if it is evil but rather man would be held accountable.

God knows that man would fall and he prepares salvation for man through christ sacrifice.

God ordained Jesus to be our salvation before creation started.

MaxInDHouse:
It's not a literal fruit but choice either to live and let live or enforce his opinion on others as their ruler setting standards for right and wrong.

AkinwaleJJ:
When you read the Bible and found a part that's difficult to understand all you need to do is search for the meaning of symbolic terms used later then go back to that part you are trying to grasp.

Later in the Bible Jesus taught his disciples using a tree, branches and FRUIT to illustrate something vital.
There the tree according to Jesus is faith God planted on planet earth {John 15:1} the seed germinated and began growing up till branches sufficed {John 15:5} then the FRUIT.

So the FRUIT here doesn't mean literal fruit but something else that's how i got to know that the serpent also doesn't mean a literal snake because later God's word said:

"So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him." Revelations 12:9

This means a highly intelligent unseen being used a snake as puppet to speak to Eve snakes don't talk!

jaephoenix:
So why did yahweh do it, knowing already adam would fall?

schoolboymatt:
Regarding the story of creation,
Genesis 2:16-17 states, "And the Lord God commanded the man, 'You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.'"
This verse establishes God's instruction to Adam and the warning of consequences associated with eating from the forbidden tree.

God is the creator of the universe and everything within it. His knowledge encompasses every possible scenario that could ever arise. God was aware that Satan would tempt Eve, leading to Eve eventually tempting Adam. He had the power to prevent all that unfolded.

Additionally, God ensures that you are not tempted beyond what you can overcome. Corinthians 10:13 "No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it."

Does this imply that Man was created with the intention to fall into sin from the beginning.

Dtruthspeaker:
Amen! May I wake up and see that the foolish have been wiped out from the earth forever, as God promised. Amen.

ichuka:
Version
I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please. Isaiah46;10
Yes,God knows how His creation will end even before He started creation.
He knew Adam would sin from the beginning .
He even purposely gave the children of Israel His laws through Moses for them to break it.

Kobojunkie:
How can it be said that God created man with the intention to fall into sin from the beginning when the first passage you highlighted stated that God warned man of the consequences of sin— disobedience of God's direct commandment? God created man with the ability [b]to sin and not to sin. Man chose to sin, so why is God at fault?[/b]

NNTR:
We human beings are not all-knowing and all-seeing like God is, so to circumvent that handicap, we aiming to be being responsible, put hypo/sniper, hot pots on gas cookers knives and electrical stuffs like hot iron in our homes well out of children's hands to reach to and make sure that electrical sockets et cetera are barricaded off

1. Being that God was aware of before it happened (i.e. foreknew), that Adam would disobey His expressed command not eat from the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, do you then, think it was not only a stupid God idea but also is, irresponsible of God to have exposed, a not a child, Adam, to the danger of an unprotected from dangerous Tree of knowledge of Good and Evil?

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
What you, gave as an example and the case, where you claimed, was about all knowing, isnt at all anything about all knowing, it is about calculating a possibility of children passing their boundaries. Its suspecting children might cross their boundaries, and so putting things in place to counteract any an eventuality

You are drawing similarities between two things that are not similar. God's abilities and human being's abilities are not in the same category

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

schoolboymatt:
so Man was created to fall, just so He could be offered salvation?

I am confused sir.

Kobojunkie:
Man was created from the physical elements of this earth; He did not have eternal life and so could not live forever as is. He had to have Jesus Christ — the Life and the Truth(the knowledge of Good and Evil) — for eternity to happen to a man. But Adam missed that chance and was kicked out of the Garden as a result of his choice against God's plan - Genesis 3 vs 19 - 24

2. According to the story, it was a serpent that tempted man, not Satan. Now, man's free will was a choice of either to to obey or not to obey.

3. Jesus Christ was always the plan from the beginning. Recall He reminded up in John 14 vs 6 that He is the Life and the Truth, the same one Adam chose to forego in the beginning.

jaephoenix:
The phone makers aren't omniscient. They are human. Yahweh is supposedly a god, and an omniscient one at that. So he knows his creation would sin and rebel, yet went ahead to create them

jaephoenix:
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things

Aemmyjah:
■ You made perfect sense until to u got ro the highlighted and it has destroyed everything you said. An unreasonably conclusion destroy a good story. It's like me saying i taught a child how to steal but nit to steal Or you gave a child the ability to sing but not to sing We all have to exploit our abilities well. You can't keep goat weed in a goat cage and expect the goat nit to eat. You will be cruel to punish that goat
■ I'm nit condemning you sha but your premises lead or support the argument you are trying to refute.
■ God simply gave man freewill to choose. The tree symbolized God's sovereignty and as long as man abstain from eating the fruit, he prove to be on God's side. Man was nit made a robot but could demonstrate love and obedience to his Creator by obeying him. Just like a married person exchange vows to be faithful, if one still cheats does nit mean that he was already going to sin. He used his freewill selfishly and that is what Adam and his wife did.
Eve disobedience was out of greed. Adam disobedience was to please the woman

Aemmyjah:
■ This is where you have made God the author of sin. You're not making sense?
■ Who did Jesus come to give his life for? Imperfect mankind, offspring of Adam
■ If Adam was obedient, there would be no need fir Jesus sacrificial death just as ni need for a ransom when one is not kidnapped

Kobojunkie:
1. Jesus didn't die for Adam though. Rather, Jesus Christ came to die for the sinners of Israel who mostly refused to obey God's Old Law of Moses and were hence cursed and scattered by God to the ends of the world as consequence of their disobedience of His Law.

2. Mankind was cursed by God as a result of Adam's sin for sure. But sent Jesus Christ rather to save His Israel.

3. Jesus Christ was the tree of Life and the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil-- Truth --- in the garden - John 14 vs 6. If Adam had obeyed, we would have had a chance at Jesus Christ from our before our birth. Jesus Christ was always God's plan. Adam was just a man through whom that plan could have come down to us by.

Aemmyjah:
■ So was Jesus part of the arrangement BEFORE the original sin?

Kobojunkie:
1. So the doctrines and your particularly group falls to pieces when you consider that the fact that Adam was quite capable of eating from the tree and it was for this reason that God gave Adam the Law not to?

2. My premises isn't the problem at all since OP realizes that simply having the ability to do something does not make my creator culpable for the choices I hence make. Rather it is your religious interpretations that pose an issue here.

3. As I said, nonsense. Isn't what you term freewill a choice between to sin or not to sin/ to obey God or not to obey God where sin refers to direct disobedience of God's given commandment in this case Genesis 2 vs 15 - 17 and is hence transgression of God's Law ?

Kobojunkie:
Yes, He was there from BEFORE the beginning — scripture tells you that much. God's plan has always been Jesus Christ. And there is no such thing as original sin. Rather, there is sin and the consequence of sin.

Aemmyjah:
■ This is where you shoot yourself in the foot. Jesus ransom sacrifice waa an arrangement by God just as a literal ransom is an arrangement when one ia kidnapped. That was Jesus purpose.
■ Read ans understand John 3;16. Jesus came ti redeem mankind. Had Adam obeyed, there would have been no need for Jesus coming to earth. Remember he was compared to the bronze snake that Moses erect to save the Israelites.
■ Before then, Jesus was acting as God's spokesman in heaven
■ Original sin is simply the sin that caused Man's fall. Simple as ABC

Aemmyjah:
Original sin is simply the sin that caused Man's fall. Simple as ABC

Aemmyjah:
■ Na u sabi. This is a logical thing but you made it lead to another conclusion entirely. Lemme illustrate for your understanding. Jehovah is the life giver and creator of Adam. But they are intelligent creatures and have to demonstrate obedience to God but they are not robots. Imagine going to a friend's house and his son comes to bim each morning and night and say 'Mummy, i love you' and that friend turns to you and say, 'wow, my son loves me'... You discover that the son does this cos he was told to do this each day. Will you say that those words were from his heart? He has to demonstrate true obedience from his heart.
■ Adam was a perfect man and he did nit have any sinful tendencies or ability to sin as your wrongfully conclude according to whichever dogma you were taught, he was given a simple instruction. He knew it was nit right but went ahead to rebel. Adam sinned and your definition of sin ia correct but he was not given the ability to sin. You don't give your child the ability to steal by warning him against stealing

Kobojunkie:
You don't even realize the contradictions in your very own statements there. There in bold is you admitting to the fact that
■ God made man with the ability to obey Him
■ God did not make a man a robot meaning man also had the ability to disobey

So, I am not certain why you feel the need to argue needlessly here.

2. Adam was not created a perfect man. Nowhere in scripture is it found written that Adam was created a perfect man Perfection/Holiness is attained only through careful, continuous submission and obedience to God's Law. Rather, what is written is that God created Adam, and then God certified His creation as good aka in excellent order/quality.

Kobojunkie:
1. What ransom sacrifice?

2. Redeem mankind from what? Jesus Christ came to offer a path to redemption only to the sinners by offering them citizenship in His own Nation, God's special nation of priests aka the Kingdom of God where He, Jesus Christ sits as King and Judge over them all. His offering, He said, is only available to the sinners — the damned convicts — of God's Old Law of Moses, the Lost sheep of Israel. And as explained in the context of John 3 vs 1 - 21 from which you picked to focus only on the context of the one verse, only those among them who would become born-again — born of water AND born of Spirit — would be able to gain citizenship in the Kingdom of God.

3. God's spokesperson in Heaven?

4. The sin is like any other sin except the consequence that devastated most of man's progenies, but not all.

Kobojunkie:
Yes, He was there from BEFORE the beginning — scripture tells you that much. God's plan has always been Jesus Christ. And there is no such thing as original sin. Rather, there is sin and the consequence of sin.

Aemmyjah:
■ From the highlighted, will u say I'm perfect?
■ So God made a imperfect man (a sinner)
■ Adam was created perfect
■ Jesus was also perfect but when tempted, he remained obedient. Satan was once a perfect angel but did not stand firm in the truth You no sabi wetin u de yan

Aemmyjah:
1. If Adam had nit sin a, will Jesus come die for us?
2. All these arrangement began after Adam and Eve rebelled and not an arrangement before the universe began
3. In the Beginning was the WORD. JESUS is the word of God (God's spokesman)
4. Who is excluded from the consequence? You?

Aemmyjah:
■ Original sin or the first Sin is what i mean. Haba. The arrangement for rescue came AFTER. Adam sinned