₦airaland Forum

paxonel:
ofcourse they bowed before Jesus. ..

At least you have admitted that they indeed bowed, all other things you said are off point.

paxonel:
Those things aren't Idols, they are monuments of Christian martyrs of which Mary was one of them. ...

Correction: Catholic creation of monuments depicting some Christian notables (as separate from catholic notables eg their father Tansi, Augustine etc) which they idolized.

paxonel:
they don't pray to any saint. Rather, they believe that these saints are still alive today praying

Now you even know you are lying for they have many prayers to saint this, st that eg prayers to mary, joseph, then prayer to mary and joseph, benedict, dominic etc

The way you are trying to defend this just clearly shows that you are catholic. Obviously, pastor chris don tire you.

vdestro:
What has been going on here? Is it not the judging of the catholics bowing to images, with The Law?

you mentioned stealing, adultery and murder. How does this relate to Catholics bowing to images?
You can arrest someone for stealing, how many Catholics have they arrested for bowing down to images?

Therefore, your points do not follow

There is actually nothing for you to say.

all am saying is, if you have a better argument, present it well and i will be on your side, I'm not a catholic

Obviously you have not read the bible well enough. Luke 24:50/51.

For the purpose transparency

Luke 24:50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.
Luke 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

What's this?
How does this relate?

paxonel:
you mentioned stealing, adultery and murder. How does this relate to Catholics bowing to images?

I said it up, and you saw it where i said "same Law"!.

You are just trying to see if you can find something to say since you have nothing, as i told you, there is nothing for you to say.

paxonel:
You can arrest someone for stealing, how many Catholics have they arrested for bowing down to images?

Off point! Arrest is not the point (for if the authorities do not arresr you, it does not mean you have not broken The Law. And lo, people have not been arrested for coveting, yet it is in breach of The Law.

As i said, there is nothing valid for you to say

paxonel:
For the purpose transparency

Luke 24:50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.
Luke 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

What's this?
How does this relate?

O oh! I hate phone typing. I meant
Luke 23; 50/51

Here it is
50Now there was a man named Joseph, from the Jewish town of Arimathea. He was a member of the council, a good and righteous man,
51[b]who had not consented to their decision and action[/b]

vdestro:
At least you have admitted that they indeed bowed, all other things you said are off point.



Correction: Catholic creation of monuments depicting some Christian notables (as separate from catholic notables eg their father Tansi, Augustine etc) which they idolized.



Now you even know you are lying for they have many prayers to saint this, st that eg prayers to mary, joseph, then prayer to mary and joseph, benedict, dominic etc

The way you are trying to defend this just clearly shows that you are catholic. Obviously, pastor chris don tire you.

I don't know what you gain in causing division in the body of Christ. But i know you have a long way to go, na you go tire last last.

Cathalic church as a sect in Christianity has been in existence long before you were born and nothing will change that.
The same with winners chapel, Rccg, Christ Embassy, Presbyterian, Anglican, celestial church, mountain of fire, etc.

You know what your problem is?
Oyinbo carry religion were you nor fit understand come Africa, you carry the religion put for head without understanding. See am now, e dey cause division among Africans

paxonel:
I don't know what you gain in causing division in the body of Christ...

They are not part of the body of Christ, so i definitely would not allow it to be said that they are.

By their fruits, we know them and worse for them, i was in their numbers and like joseph of Arimithea, i did not consent to their activities.

paxonel:
ofcourse they bowed before Jesus. Again, there is no record in the bible that their bowing to baby Jesus is a translation of what they truly worshipped, neither was there any record that these people ended up becoming disciple of Jesus.
Remember, they were more or less like astrologers who study stars, perhaps stars could be their religion.

Most Bible translators used the word "worshipped" and not "bowed" what the Maggians did for Jesus! They were like Zoroastrians who worshipped stars, Ahura Mazda, etc. So why was bowing/prostration translated as worship by so many if not all Bible translators particularly when Jesus is involved? But now you're reinterpreting your own bowing not to mean worship but honor?

I ain't no catholic, I'm just being object here talking like someone who have gone to verify the truth. Those things aren't Idols, they are monuments of Christian martyrs of which Mary was one of them.
has nothing to do with you
they don't pray to any saint. Rather, they believe that these saints are still alive today praying
catholic mass are usually symbolic. Going by the fact that Jesus resurrected, Catholics believe that these saints have also resurrected and they are alive today praying for the world. That's why they keep saying pray for us
well, that's your own belief.
But we Christians believe that the saints are still alive

Where verse in the Bible points to "hail Mary full of Grace the Lord is with..... Holy Mary, mother of God pray for all sinners....

Which Bible verses support the believe that saints (eg. Saint Ignatius of Loyola, etc) are alive today?

How can we verify them being alive?

Is there any difference between an Ogun worshipper who bows for Iron, recite incantation, believes it can help him and the Catholics rituals?

vdestro:
O oh! I hate phone typing. I meant
Luke 23; 50/51

Here it is
50Now there was a man named Joseph, from the Jewish town of Arimathea. He was a member of the council, a good and righteous man,
51[b]who had not consented to their decision and action[/b]

OK, I understand what you are saying, that Joseph of Arimathea a good man compared to other members of the council.

That not withstanding, he was still a member of the council right?

paxonel:
OK, I understand what you are saying, that Joseph of Arimathea a good man compared to other members of the council.

That not withstanding, he was still a member of the council right?

"Though we are in the world, we are not of the world!" Though we are with them, we are not with them

Lol

The Catholic church is the mother of all false churches all around the world.

A church where Mary & Saint Peter is more regarded than Jesus Christ.

Where did Jesus Christ or any of the Apostles says you should honor saints?

Have you ever seen a Jew bow down to an Image of Abraham or Moses?

It is easier to convince a Boko Haram member to leave terrorism than to convince a Brainwashed religious person to quit believing a lie & wrong doctrines.

AntiChristian:
Most Bible translators used the word "worshipped" and not "bowed" what the Maggians did for Jesus! They were like Zoroastrians who worshipped stars, Ahura Mazda, etc. So why was bowing/prostration translated as worship by so many if not all Bible translators particularly when Jesus is involved? But now you're reinterpreting your own bowing not to mean worship but honor?

you know, evolution of languages occurs over time.
The words worship and bow meant the same thing as they applies in those verses. But may be some translators decides to use the word worship more when it comes to bowing to Jesus because, they intended to maintain the Lordship of Jesus towards human worship which does not necessarily apply to those verses in reality, if you have a critical study of them.

Where verse in the Bible points to "hail Mary full of Grace the Lord is with..... Holy Mary, mother of God pray for all sinners....

hail Mary isn't the same as worship Mary.

All these mass processional statements or whatever are simply historical. It seems they were something of the ancient Roman empire people saying.
Hail the emperor!
Hail the emperor!
They later infused it into Christianity

It is certainly not from the bible

Which Bible verses support the believe that saints (eg. Saint Ignatius of Loyola, etc) are alive today?

John 3:16 ... that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

How can we verify them being alive?

there is nothing to verify. All we do is believe.
That's why we have faith

Is there any difference between an Ogun worshipper who bows for Iron, recite incantation, believes it can help him and the Catholics rituals?

no difference!

rituals, rituals, rituals, they are all rituals.
Rituals is characteristics of religion you know

vdestro:
"Though we are in the world, we are not of the world!" Though we are with them, we are not with them

this is exactly what i tried to explain when i said the human mind cannot be predicted by what they do.
Joseph was with them, at the same time his mind was with Christ.

It was the same Joseph that provided the tomb where Jesus was burried?
That is to tell you that his mind was totally for Christ

paxonel:
i ain't no catholic, but atleast i have interacted with some professional cathecists back then while i was in school and i asked them the same questions you are asking.

Here is the thing.
Bowing before figures and images among Catholics does not necessarily mean worship but it is a traditional thing of the ancient Roman empire.
In a bid to show respect to figures or biblical characters they consider heronic, they traditionally bow before their images and monuments, just like the Yoruba tradition demands that the younger ones bows before their elders. In such case, the younger ones are not said to worship their elders but rather, they are showing signs of respect.

But spiritually,, in the real sense, what is worship in Christianity?
How do we distinguish between mere bowing down before someone, figures or images from worship?

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Mark the phrase THE HOUR COMETH.
It refers to the hour when Christ will die and resurrect. From that point the true worshippers begin to exist in contrast to those who worship during the old covenant. These true worshippers are believers.

So if Catholics have believed in Christ and they profess that Jesus is the Christ, then it is unfair to use their mere traditional practices of bowing and honoring monuments of faithful martyrs to judge them, seeing that tradition is already part of the people and there is nothing you can do to separate certain traditional practices from the people.

But what is fascinating is, most Catholics cannot explain what they do if you ask them. Because they are usually groomed to obey without asking questions

Thanks. Except the bible SPECIFICALLY says do not bow to graven images

Nsogbu001:
U bow wen u meet ur elderly ones right? It's th d same

The bible SPECIFICALLY says do not bow to graven images. It says nothing against bowing to the elderly

vdestro:
I said "living persons" not living things.

And God knows that when we bow before living people, it is as a result of His Law of "respect the hoary head"/ honour the honourfull man.

That includes humans

davinchecodes:
■ Oga rest, religion have been in existence since man existed.

So also has prostitution. Do you have a point of sorts?

paxonel:
this is exactly what i tried to explain when i said the human mind cannot be predicted by what they do.
Joseph was with them, at the same time his mind was with Christ.

It was the same Joseph that provided the tomb where Jesus was burried?
That is to tell you that his mind was totally for Christ

Remember it is written by their fruits...

davinchecodes:
That includes humans

Also includes goats and lizards and iroko tree.