₦airaland Forum

Workch:
I'm arguing because you are not getting the Point.

Yoi can even barely understand how Nhis works.

You don't even understand that government does not subsidize health in Nigeria. You think that a caeseram session should cost 15million. That's funny 😂

nairalanda1:
Fight for your subsidy then.

nairalanda1:
Problem was, the corruption was a result of subsidy.

You bring in price controls...an integral part of subsidy, and copule it up with free money..another ingredient of subsidy, and anarchy and corruption results.

Ghana and Niger republique both have working refineries, as does Chad. They also DO NOT HAVE and HAVE NEVER HAD subsides. As a result, their refineries can make enough profit, and work well to produce and sell fuel. And they don't have 'strong institutions' (Chad is a one man dictatorship show, Niger too has corruption issues, as does Ghana.).

MTN and Airtel work where Nitel failed because they were selling services , telephony and internet, at high prices...and making enough profit to build things and improve services over time.

The thing is, once you make it difficult for someone to make a profit in a business, that person is going to turn to corruption and wayo to make money. Infact the periodic scarcity that used to happen under subsidy was a means by which marketers made enough profit to survive and balance their books. They had no choice....other wise they would have gone broke. Yeah it is nice to sell fuel cheap...but there are things needed for the business to run that don't rely on subsides...and are expensive to boot.

Nigeria should have removed subsides in 1993, when it was suggested strongly that we do. By now, we won;t be having this discussion....but we said no. 30 years later...

P.S

I do not support APC, PDP or LP. My problem with them, and with Nigerian leaders is simple. Nigeria runs a resoruce dependent economy that no longer works, and none of the parties have taken measures to get us off it

I have also backed subsidy removal since 2012, when I simply put, woke up.

Hedonisco:
Thank you, OP.

It's puzzling how there's some kind of elite conspiracy to deliberately complicate what should be a simple argument concerning this subsidy removal of a thing.

As as long as I can remember, I have argued that any talk about removing subsidy on fuel simply means that the government would be punishing poor Nigerians for its own inefficiency, incompetence and corruption. It's as simple as that, in spite of any laboriously long arguments our 'professors' want to make to the contrary.

1. Professionally and continuously audit the fuel consumption numbers and subsidy payments regime to plug loopholes.

2. Tackle smuggling of subsidised fuel across Nigeria's borders

3. Make sure that Nigeria's publicly owned refineries work at full capacity, and remove any bottlenecks that impede the creation of new small and large private refineries

4. Supply crude to these local refineries at rebated prices if possible, in Naira of course. Give the local refineries tax waivers where necessary

5. The DPR (or whatever its current incarnations are called) should be doing its job to tackle hoarding and manipulation)

Frankly I don't care if anyone says all of these are easier said than done. It's not rocket science, and if we can't do these, then we're buttressing the point being made about government's incompetence/inefficiency which the masses SHOULD NOT take responsibility for!

Hedonisco:
Thank you, OP.



1. Professionally and continuously audit the fuel consumption numbers and subsidy payments regime to plug loopholes.

2. Tackle smuggling of subsidised fuel across Nigeria's borders

3. Make sure that Nigeria's publicly owned refineries work at full capacity, and remove any bottlenecks that impede the creation of new small and large private refineries

4. Supply crude to these local refineries at rebated prices if possible, in Naira of course. Give the local refineries tax waivers where necessary

5. The DPR (or whatever its current incarnations are called) should be doing its job to tackle hoarding and manipulation)

Frankly I don't care if anyone says all of these are easier said than done. It's not rocket science, and if we can't do these, then we're buttressing the point being made about government's incompetence/inefficiency which the masses SHOULD NOT take responsibility for!

gawu1:
Frankly speaking, these are the truths we are all dodging away from.

nairalanda1:
1.No one is saying that supporting removal of subsidy means you don't want audits to be done.

2. As Libya, Angola, Venezuela, Iran and Saudi have successfuly tackled smuggling...no wait' they haven't.

Subsidy is a great lubricator of smuggling.

3.Refineries can work when there is a profit motive, or ability to make profits which can only happen when there is no subsidy

4. In other words, you want the folks who drill for crude to supply crude at 'cheap prices' That works till they start losing money, then they stop drilling for crude, then jobs get lost, and wahala starts.

Money has to be made for a host of things...including paying a decent wage to workers, and buying or leasing drilling equipment.

5. In other words, price controls...has been tried elsewhere. It caused more problems. No one is going to sell at a loss.

nairalanda1:
Yeah you pay something into it...but in return, you get drugs at a heavily discounted rate.


Which is what happens in government run hospitals, and even for some medications eg malaria drugs.

Simples. I work there after all.



That was partly the case prior to 2016, when Government made NNPC sole importer and paid subsidy costs to them to compensate them for selling fuel at a loss to marketers.

The remaining bit went to transporters. It is why pre subsidy, prices were the same all over the country.





K.

Workch:
So why are they not doing it properly? We won't be in this situation if they have been doing that.

there's no single country in the world that doesn't face smuggling but Nigerias borders are bigger than the vagina of a prostitute. Smuggling is almost free for all and customs is corrupt and deliberately won't stop it. The citizens should not be meant to suffer for Thr inefficiencies of customs who are relatively properly funded.

is that not why we are funding customs. Should we disband them? Why pay them taxpayers money if they cannot do their primary duties?

the cost of running a refinery is much lower than the cost of not running it. Do you know that we already run at lost from Importing fuel. Very silly thing we have been doing for years because of the ineptness of government.

the folks are not drilling oil for cheap price. You don't know how this thing works. Stop talking.

Oil companies drills at normal price for government. Government takes the crude to it refineries and then sells to citizens at a subsidized rate. By doing this, the cost exporting the crude and importing the constituents back into this country will be saved. Government, the people and oil companies are all winners in this because our refineries made the product, our government can dictate price outside of external forces. What external market rate will only affect is the crude which we are selling to other countries.
Think, it's no rocket science.

Dude, you have brains draining. Students who studied petrochemistry in Nigeria don't have jobs. This will create massive employment too. You are not making any sense here

price control is working in UAE and Saudi very well. It's not causing a y problem. Where did you get your from from?

FoolishBoy419:
I am with you on the subsidy removal issue but I don't think NHIS gives drugs at a discounted price. They are denying a lot of people access to the drugs even though many workers are forced to pay them monthly.

Workch:
you really have said nothing new here. And whose job is it to fight the corruption, my job?
There's nothing wrong with subsidizing a commodity, the problem is the bad structure, weak institutions and the total unavailability of reliable database that gives insights to help channel the subsidy efficiently.
Subsidy for certain commodities is a norm is Most parts of the world, the problem is our weak structure.
U.K subsidizes for health, some goods and even tax for low income earners. Don't deprive yourself of basic benefits as a citizen because your government doesn't want to fight corruption.
These countries cannot produce enough crude oil to serve their own country, we can produce enough crude oil to serve our population and even export excess. This is why if we have a working refinery, we can easily regulate prices internally better than Benin and Ghana.
Benin and Ghana still depends on buying crude oil from other countries to refine, which means they will still be heavily dependent on international market forces.

this does not correlate, I don't get how this is directly related to oil and gas industry and how government subsidizes services.

again, there's nothing wrong in subsidizing commodities as a government if you have reliable data to track what you are subsidizing and a corruption commission that is efficient. It all boils down to the bd structure in Nigeria.

subsidy is what you are suppose to enjoy as a citizen if EFCC and ICPC were doing their jobs in the downstream and upstream sector. Don't suffer for their inefficiencies.

you didnt comprehend my post. You failed to get the point
The point is not that we should not remove subsidy, the point is why and how we are removing it. Read it again

ChybuzzDD:
That is just an an a.ss-hole.

ChybuzzDD:
I always wonder how much they paid him to be throwing those puerile, purulent, and annoying defence lines where ever petrol subsidy is mentioned in this forum.

nairalanda1:
Work within the system..



I dare say that Venezuela (which loses 18 billion dollars through smuggling yearly) and Libya (which is now using airstrikes to attack smugglers) and even Angola (big issues on its borders) would love to agree with you.





Yeah, and when there are opportunites for arbitage...




So remove subsidy, and let it run at a price


Erm, was telling him that they cannot sell crude oil at cheap prices because it would mean they lose money

You sure you understood what was being discussed?



And then the government sustains a large deficit doing so, because crude oil prices rise and rise and rise.

Therein is the problem





This is a nairaland convo. Calm down.



Yes because

Saudi 10million barrels a day of crude, 40 MILLION people

UAE : 2.5-8 million barrels of crude, 14 MILLION people

Nigeria meanwhile...1.5 million barrels of crude, 220 million

We can't afford it.


See the issue.

Workch:
I have a feeling that you are helinues

Workch:
I have a feeling that you are helinues