₦airaland Forum

nairalanda1:
At the end of the day, the APC government was always in support of subsidy.

Nigeria cannot afford subsidy again. If we had kept subsidy since May 29, and fuel remained at N195, by now, subsidy costs would have risen drastically, and government would have either been taking loans from other parts of the budget to pay for the subsidy, or taken more loans, or declare force maejure, and the market would end up having scarcity.

We keep making the same mistake every time, all in the name of cheap fuel

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CHEAP FUEL. Fuel costs money to produce. But because we want the poor to breathe, we use tomorrow's money to pay yesterday's costs.

Ah well, everyone should be 'happy' now.

Don't complain when the debt rises, and when we don't have refineries again.



(Yeah, like it makes sense to sell fuel at N617 when it costs N900 in reality. Apparently believing that it is wrong to sell fuel at a loss means you are an oppressor, and hate Nigerians. Well, anyone quoting me to tell me that I am wrong....WOULD YOU sell your goods at a loss to let the poor breathe? )

Am out. .



Modified


As expected, the subsidy supporters are out in force.

LOL.

Well, I cannot help people who don't want to see to see.

nairalanda1:
Nothing. The problem is, subsidy always encoruages corruption. Even if it was stopped, the problem is petrol is being sold below the cost of production. When that happens, wahala starts.

Libya has a massive fuel smuggling problem. They are now resorting to using jet fighters against the smugglers. Not working. Even Angola, Venezuela, etc...all have smuggling issues. Iran as well. Saudi has the same problem.

.




I have no argument with this, and infact have made this point over and over again...that our economy IS NOT DIVERSIFIED.

I have even gone on the record stating what we need to do to diversify.

Oil is not enough for us.




And power supply is poor because government controls prices there.

As a result, they cannot make enough pofit to pay loans taken, talkless of fixing things. (The Siemens deal involved TCN mostly...which is a government run entitiy).

For two years, them companies were not allowed to raise their prices

Then 40% of Nigerians do not pay for power.

Yet by some miracle you expect 24 hour power supply.

South Africa does not have these constraints, and they have blackouts.

Yes, which is why we have to DIVERSIFY

Simple.

And in most instances, they pay taxes at rates of close to 50% per annum to pay for the subsides. Oil rich countries that can subsidise produce more than we do and have populations not up to 20 million. (Saudi produces ten times what we do, and has a population of 40 million.).

Egypt, Angola, Algeria and Libya still sell cheap fuel in Africa. In fact Egypt with 112m population produces lesser oil than we do, they rarely export. They even import crude oil to compliment their local consumption yet pays billions of dollars to Petro subsidy this year only. Subsidized Fuel is sold at about N301 in Egypt as of today.

Princewill1:
I have read your article, nothing new there... just the usual rethorics; Corruption in the sector, Fuel smuggling to neighboring countries, subsidy being too costly for govt etc.
I have argue with you on this topic here on NL. It seems you're working for some people.

1. What stops govt from tackling the corruption going on in the sector? I thought they are the ones in charge? Egypt, Angola, Algeria, Libya subsidizes oil in their countries with no noise of corruption in their oil sectors. Why is our subsidy different?

2. During Trump's administration, he collaborated with Mexico to send 26 thousands Mexican troops to the border to checkmate illegal immigration. You can't tell me that govt in Nigeria can't drastically minimize oil smuggling.

3. About subsidy being too costly for govt., Then govt should divisify to earn more FX. Egypt, Angola, Algeria and Libya still sell cheap fuel in Africa. In fact Egypt with 112m population produces lesser oil than we do, they rarely export. They even import crude oil to compliment their local consumption yet pays billions of dollars to Petro subsidy this year. Subsidized Fuel is sold at about N301 in Egypt as of today.

Here are reasons why I think subsidy or partial susidy should be a right in Nigeria.

POOR POWER SUPPLY:

Subsidized oil should be a fundamental RIGHT in Nigeria because "petro and diesel" are tied to electricity generation in Nigeria. Millions of businesses in Nigeria rely largely on it for power generation and survival. A country that has stable electricity can't remove subsidy and Nigeria with poor power supply will follow suit.
You stated in your previous post that Ghana sells fuel at over N1000 per liter. Ghana citizens doesn't need fuel for something as crucial as power generation due to their govt provision of stable power supply.

NAIRA FREE FALL:
Govt over the years has failed to fix our refineries making us to rely heavily on imported fuel purchased with scarce Fx. Your 2022 article stated that the landing cost of fuel as of then was N396 now the news on this post is talking of N900 due to the exchange rate. What it means is that in the absence of subsidy, fuel can even be sold for 5k or more per liter in the nearer future as Naira continue to fall.

Is it not idi.otic for politicians in Nigeria to says that corruption in oil subsidy is the main reason they want to end subsidy and the mu.mu masses in Nigeria accepted it. Why not tackle the corruption there first?

All over the world, govts subsidize essential products and basic commodities for it's citizens.

nairalanda1:
At the end, when you sell something less than the cost of producing it, you would end up with corruption and looting...because you are attacking somene's right to make a profit.

Why do we have scarcity of petrol, but no scarcity of bread? Because bread is sold at a profit in Nigeria. Petrol is not.

Bring in a subsidy, corruption wills et in in the sector being subsidised.

Plus even IF YOU ELIMINATE CORRUPTION, all your problem is not solved.

If we kept petrol at N195...our subsidy costs would have gone up from N400 per liter in may to N700-800 per liter by now. Buhari did not budget any money for subsidy beyond June. The money for the increase will come from other sectors of the budget, causing a deficit...which has to be filled in by loans.

sammirano3:
Are you are you normal?

Godszilla:
Here is your own take remove subsidy n corruption dies a natural death. I don't know who is feeding you with all this n it doesn't correlate with reality.

Besides nobody is taking away anyone's profit its being paid by the government - where the corruption n looting n mismanagement stems from.

It is well with you please help us beg emi lokan to hands off completely and let's watch how the country will be better for it.

“And with all thy getting get understanding” (Proverbs 4:7

Princewill1:
I have read your article, nothing new there... just the usual rethorics; Corruption in the sector, Fuel smuggling to neighboring countries, subsidy being too costly for govt etc.
I have argue with you on this topic here on NL. It seems you're working for some people.

1. What stops govt from tackling the corruption going on in the sector? I thought they are the ones in charge? Egypt, Angola, Algeria, Libya subsidizes oil in their countries with no noise of corruption in their oil sectors. Why is our subsidy different?

2. During Trump's administration, he collaborated with Mexico to send 26 thousands Mexican troops to the border to checkmate illegal immigration. You can't tell me that govt in Nigeria can't drastically minimize oil smuggling.

3. About subsidy being too costly for govt., Then govt should divisify to earn more FX. Egypt, Angola, Algeria and Libya still sell cheap fuel in Africa. In fact Egypt with 112m population produces lesser oil than we do, they rarely export. They even import crude oil to compliment their local consumption yet pays billions of dollars to Petro subsidy this year. Subsidized Fuel is sold at about N301 in Egypt as of today.

Here are reasons why I think subsidy or partial susidy should be a right in Nigeria.

POOR POWER SUPPLY:

Subsidized oil should be a fundamental RIGHT in Nigeria because "petro and diesel" are tied to electricity generation in Nigeria. Millions of businesses in Nigeria rely largely on it for power generation and survival. A country that has stable electricity can't remove subsidy and Nigeria with poor power supply will follow suit.
You stated in your previous post that Ghana sells fuel at over N1000 per liter. Ghana citizens doesn't need fuel for something as crucial as power generation due to their govt provision of stable power supply.

NAIRA FREE FALL:
Govt over the years has failed to fix our refineries making us to rely heavily on imported fuel purchased with scarce Fx. Your 2022 article stated that the landing cost of fuel as of then was N396 now the news on this post is talking of N900 due to the exchange rate. What it means is that in the absence of subsidy, fuel can even be sold for 5k or more per liter in the nearer future as Naira continue to fall.

Is it not idi.otic for politicians in Nigeria to says that corruption in oil subsidy is the main reason they want to end subsidy and the mu.mu masses in Nigeria accepted it. Why not tackle the corruption there first?

All over the world, govts subsidize essential products and basic commodities for it's citizens.

Godszilla:
Here is your own take remove subsidy n corruption dies a natural death. I don't know who is feeding you with all this n it doesn't correlate with reality.

Besides nobody is taking away anyone's profit its being paid by the government - where the corruption n looting n mismanagement stems from.

It is well with you please help us beg emi lokan to hands off completely and let's watch how the country will be better for it.

“And with all thy getting get understanding” (Proverbs 4:7

Againstallodds:
Are you really sure this man is an accountant like they hyped him

lexy2014:
Egypt, Angola, Algeria and Libya still sell cheap fuel in Africa. In fact Egypt with 112m population produces lesser oil than we do, they rarely export. They even import crude oil to compliment their local consumption yet pays billions of dollars to Petro subsidy this year only. Subsidized Fuel is sold at about N301 in Egypt as of today..

nairalanda1:
Because we spent a large chunk of that revenue from the 100 dollars per barrel to pay for subsidies

Even then GEJ wanted to remove it. You his supporters and the opponents like Tinubu said no.

Treadway:
these facts say otherwise. Diezani one person, stole more than the whole subsidy payment for a year even using the prevailing exchange rate at that time, but you've sworn that corruption is just small fry. Not to mention, the exchange rate was managed and manageable at the time so even despite years of high crude oil prices our lives didn't get turned upside down, but fast forward to 2023 you Harvardus economist somehow believe that floating the naira and removing subsidies in one fell swoop is a great idea..and when we tell you the corruption and mismanagement ilare the real issues you say subsidy is the monster...as if the subsidies on diesel, kerosene that were removed solved anything.

I know say you no go accept lailai, so this point and the screenshots are just to remind some nairalanders who may have forgotten the events of yester-years not to get carried away with big big English and remind themselves of a little history

nairalanda1:
Do grow up . My supporting subsidy removal does not mean I support stealing.

sammirano3:
Are you are you normal?

Treadway:
you downplay it so much so, we could infer you do.

According to you (numerous times), the stealing is insignificant in the grand scheme of things...or you want screenshots. Screenshots dey if you want. Even your statement which I quoted ,you were still harping on that same thing, that subsidy was hemorrhaging the budget, hence, my decision to show you proof it wasn't so at least in 2011-2012, and to also show you the stealing that clearly was hemorrhaging the budget, by showing just 1 person! Go figure...

nairalanda1:
1.Egypt has a diversified economy, not the oil economy APC has put us under.

2.Angola has a serious debt problem, and a massive fuel smuggling issue. Plus their populaiton is not up to 50 million

3.Algeria has a diversified economy as well. Not the APC oil dependent economy we have.

4.Libya?

Libya produces slightly more oil than we do and has

1.8-10 million people compared to our 200 million people

2.Thus more revenue per capita than we do

3.So they can afford subsidy.

4.And...they have a bad smuggling problem that they are resorting to airstrikes to fight the fuel smugglers. Yes, it is that bad.


Nigeria, especially after 8 years of APC rule is so bad that we cannot afford subsidy. Maybe when we vote in a government that would diversify our economy, and improve tax collection and not pretend fuel is cheap...and no it is not this current government we have, we can get somewhere.

Also, Lexy, if you want subsidy, meet your senator and agi...no wait, Tinubu has heard your cry and brught you subsidy. So, as a tinubu supporter you should be happy. As someone who is a realist and is apolitical, I am pissed.



Now, I want you to keep on asking me questions again and again.

I hereby command you to do so, oga Lexy.

lexy2014:
what is so diversified about the egyptian that makes it better than the nigerian economy?

is it diversification that makes egypt better than nigeria?

what has Angolas "debt problem" got to do with the fact that they pay subsidy? what is the correlation?

is it because of subsidy that they have a debt problem?

is it under APC or 8years ago that Nigeria started having an "oil dependent economy"?

you keep bringing up population but you avoided these questions i asked you earlier

what has population got to do with subsidy? is it because of population that the Saudi government can provide for its people? is there any social service that nigerian governments at all levels have shown competence in providing? is it because of the nigerian population?

what has improving tax collection got to do with providing subsidy? have tax collection been stagnant since 1960?

what has been done with the taxes al these years?

can you on behalf of the government account for the taxes collected so far?

what has supporting tinubu or not supporting tinubu got to do with the discussion? can you help me out?

nairalanda1:
Okay, make you sell your products at half price it cost you to make or buy them to help the poor.

And do grow up. My supporting subsidy removal does not mean I support stealing.

nairalanda1:
You are right.

lexy2014:
in what way?

what is so diversified about the egyptian that makes it better than the nigerian economy?

is it diversification that makes egypt better than nigeria?

what has Angolas "debt problem" got to do with the fact that they pay subsidy? what is the correlation?

is it because of subsidy that they have a debt problem?

is it under APC or 8years ago that Nigeria started having an "oil dependent economy"?

you keep bringing up population but you avoided these questions i asked you earlier

what has population got to do with subsidy? is it because of population that the Saudi government can provide for its people? is there any social service that nigerian governments at all levels have shown competence in providing? is it because of the nigerian population?

what has improving tax collection got to do with providing subsidy? have tax collection been stagnant since 1960?

what has been done with the taxes al these years?

can you on behalf of the government account for the taxes collected so far?

what has supporting tinubu or not supporting tinubu got to do with the discussion? can you help me out?

nairalanda1:
Your cat is right.

nairalanda1:
1.Egypt has a diversified economy, not the oil economy APC has put us under.

2.Angola has a serious debt problem, and a massive fuel smuggling issue. Plus their populaiton is not up to 50 million

3.Algeria has a diversified economy as well. Not the APC oil dependent economy we have.

4.Libya?

Libya produces slightly more oil than we do and has

1.8-10 million people compared to our 200 million people

2.Thus more revenue per capita than we do

3.So they can afford subsidy.

4.And...they have a bad smuggling problem that they are resorting to airstrikes to fight the fuel smugglers. Yes, it is that bad.


Nigeria, especially after 8 years of APC rule is so bad that we cannot afford subsidy. Maybe when we vote in a government that would diversify our economy, and improve tax collection and not pretend fuel is cheap...and no it is not this current government we have, we can get somewhere.

Also, Lexy, if you want subsidy, meet your senator and agi...no wait, Tinubu has heard your cry and brught you subsidy. So, as a tinubu supporter you should be happy. As someone who is a realist and is apolitical, I am pissed.



Now, I want you to keep on asking me questions again and again.

I hereby command you to do so, oga Lexy.

Treadway:
make you no buy cctv camera for your business premises and then hand your business to rogues and see if the business will fail at every turn or not.

lexy2014:
what is so diversified about the egyptian that makes it better than the nigerian economy?

is it diversification that makes egypt better than nigeria?

what has Angolas "debt problem" got to do with the fact that they pay subsidy? what is the correlation?

is it because of subsidy that they have a debt problem?

is it under APC or 8years ago that Nigeria started having an "oil dependent economy"?

you keep bringing up population but you avoided these questions i asked you earlier

what has population got to do with subsidy? is it because of population that the Saudi government can provide for its people? is there any social service that nigerian governments at all levels have shown competence in providing? is it because of the nigerian population?

what has improving tax collection got to do with providing subsidy? have tax collection been stagnant since 1960?

what has been done with the taxes al these years?

can you on behalf of the government account for the taxes collected so far?

what has supporting tinubu or not supporting tinubu got to do with the discussion? can you help me out?

Treadway:
hahahaha....una no go kee me for this Nairaland aswear.🤣🤣🤣

'I hereby command you' got me in stitches for real for real🤣🤣🤣

nairalanda1:
Your mother loves chickens.

lexy2014:
what is so diversified about the Egyptian that makes it better than the Nigerian economy?

is it diversification that makes Egypt better than Nigeria?

what has Angola's "debt problem" got to do with the fact that they pay subsidy? what is the correlation?

is it becos of subsidy that they have a debt problem?

is it under APC or 8years ago that Nigeria started having an "oil dependent economy"?

you keep bringing up population but you avoided these questions i asked you earlier

what has population got to do with subsidy? is it because of population that the Saudi government can provide for its people? is there any social service that nigerian governments at all levels have shown competence in providing? is it because of the nigerian population?

what has improving tax collection got to do with providing subsidy? have tax collection been stagnant since 1960?

what has been done with the taxes al these years?

can you on behalf of the government account for the taxes collected so far?

what has supporting tinubu or not supporting tinubu got to do with the discussion? can you help me out?