₦airaland Forum

FOLYKAZE:
After showing you the text of Pharaoh that called Israelites Shasu or wanderers who worship Yahweh,

and corroborate my points by showing you Yahweh is not Israel as we know but from far distant desert in mesopotami,

what other evidence do you want?

Oga you lost it

KnownUnknown:
Were the “prophecies” written after the fact. Yes or No

SIRTee15:
Which prophecies. I'm not here to discuss theology but historicity.

Emusan:
Waooo just waoooo.

So in your own understanding a wanderer doesn't have a place of birth

Besides, in which year was that remark was made by Pharoah?



You claimed Israel worshipped Yahweh and you provided a Bible verse that says God comes from so so place.

I pointed to you that, that's not Israel.

So who in his right thinking mind will equate worshippers with the object being worshipped?



I want archeological evidence that shows where Israel first located.

A wanderer musty have FIRST location.

The first case of wanderer in the Bible was that of Cain yet Cain still have specific location before becoming a wanderer.



Says the genius who doesn't know a wander must have a specific location before becoming one and a wanderer have the ability to conquered an established cities with mighty armies

SIRTee15:
Which prophecies. I'm not here to discuss theology but historicity.

[30] brought their heavy tribute before me and in Babylon they kissed my feet. From [Babylon] to Aššur and (from) Susa,

[31] Agade, Ešnunna, Zamban, Me-Turnu, Der, as far as the region of Gutium, the sacred centers on the other side of the Tigris, whose sanctuaries had been abandoned for a long time,

[32] I returned the images of the gods, who had resided there,note to their places and I let them dwell in eternal abodes. I gathered all their inhabitants and returned to them their dwellings.

[33] In addition, at the command of Marduk, the great lord, I settled in their habitations, in pleasing abodes, the gods of Sumer and Akkad, whom Nabonidus, to the anger of the lord of the gods, had brought into Babylon.

2 “This is what Cyrus king of Persia says:

“‘The Lord, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and he has appointed me to build a temple for him at Jerusalem in Judah.
3 Any of his people among you may go up to Jerusalem in Judah and build the temple of the Lord, the God of Israel, the God who is in Jerusalem, and may their God be with them.
4 And in any locality where survivors may now be living, the people are to provide them with silver and gold, with goods and livestock, and with freewill offerings for the temple of God in Jerusalem.’”

FOLYKAZE:
I have shown you quite enough evidence of fabrications, twisting and heavy distortion of facts in the Bible as against the Cyrus cylinder.

If it is half truth, it is as good as a lie

SIRTee15:
I don't know your background so I'm not here to discuss theology with u.
I'm here to debate historical fact. I mentioned u because u claimed Jews exiles returning to Jerusalem was a myth which in all practicality your claim makes no sense.

The Cyrus cylinder is evidence Cyrus gave an edict that deportees are to return home and to restore their religious temple.
Of Jews were exiled in Babylon during the time Cyrus conquered Babylon, then the verdict applies to them.
Simple.

FOLYKAZE:
Bro read the excerpt from the declaration..



Now compare with Ezra 1


Where was Israel, Jerusalem, Yahweh or Judah mentioned?

When did Cyrus identify with Yahweh?

If you cannot see the fabrications, distortion of fact and revision done by Israel there then you are a hypocrite

FOLYKAZE:
Please go back to what you firstly quoted. I was saying bible is simply an amplified Jewish nationalistic propaganda. And that Cyprus declaration is one of the proof of fabrications, revision and distortions of fact in the Bible.

You would have believe that Nebuchadnezzar ate grass for seven years because he is a historical figure and was mentioned in the bible

SIRTee15:
A Babylonian king actually ate grass though not Nebuchadnezzar.

SIRTee15:
And who told u the Cyrus decree in the book of Ezra is meant to be the same as the edict in the Cyrus cylinder.

When did Cyrus issue the cylinder edict? He gave it after conquering Babylon and ordered it to be buried into the ground in Babylon.
It was an example of general verdict given by Persian kings after conquering a city to stamp their authority.

So u saying he couldn't have given further specific decree in pursuant of his earlier policy of deportee returning to their homeland and building the temple.

Is that what u saying?

Here is another extra biblical source depicting the policy of Jews returning to their homeland as ordered by Cyrus. From flavius Josephus, antiquities of the Jews.

SIRTee15:
A Babylonian king actually ate grass though not Nebuchadnezzar.

FOLYKAZE:
Ate grass and walked on four limbs....

SIRTee15:
What do u think they depicting when they say someone ate grass. Can someone in his sane mind eat grass.
A Babylonian king was in that state of mind.

FOLYKAZE:
If you know he gave a further declaration then show evidence.

When presenting evidence, please give us primary source and not sme overcopied tertiary source like the one below



Flavius Josephus is simply retorting the garbage in Torah.

SIRTee15:
My primary source is the Septuagint that was written 250 yrs after the said event.

Maynman:
What's the sources of the Septuagint?

The reason why it was called Septuagint was because it represented number "70" representing the scholars that interpreted it now that we know that wasn't the case and there was no 70 scholars, who are the people that interpreted it, which text did they use?
Think, Yahweh worshipper.

SIRTee15:
If I pounce on u now people will think I'm wicked.
Stop mentioning me!!! how many times will I tell u.

SIRTee15:
What do u think they depicting when they say someone ate grass. Can someone in his sane mind eat grass.
A Babylonian king was in that state of mind.

SIRTee15:
Primary source for something that happend more than 2500 yrs ago.
Do u know when the cylinder edict was found? 1879.

My primary source is the Septuagint that was written 250 yrs after the said event.

Now bring your own primary source that says Persian king do not issue further decrees to reiterate given edicts.

FOLYKAZE:
You brought a source that was written not even by the eye witness and call that primary source? Do you know what primary source is? Please save us from the concorted tales.


I have shown you the text from Cyrus cylinder and it explicitly dictate that he identified with Marduk and reestablished sanctuaries in Mesopotamia. You are the one claiming he made further declaration so give us evidence... Not just a concorted garbage from the bible but data from primary source.


And we have trashed this issue in the past.
https://www.nairaland.com/5682778/historicity-bible-justification-christian-faith



Let us focus on the subject of this thread

SIRTee15:
The Cyrus cylinder is evidence that Cyrus ordered all deportees to return to their homeland in mesopotamia and other regions

Maynman:
Where did the text say this?

FOLYKAZE:
Hahahaha

He had a very long tail too

FOLYKAZE:
What Bible are you talking about? The conjoined propaganda? If you want to read the chronicles then get yourself the Apocryphal books, not the concorted lies and fabrications in your 66books you call Bible.

And how many times do I have to tell you that Israelites do not have land? They were wanderers, Shasu and worshipper of the desert God yahweh.

SIRTee15:
Ask your parents

FOLYKAZE:
Hahahaha

He had a very long tail too

Maynman:
They are not Jewish slaves like your parents

SIRTee15:
Continue dragging your parents to shame. Shameless fool
That's what u get when u fail to instill Godliness into your kids.

FxMasterz:
Let's set the records straight.

There's a city in Palestine called Jerusalem. There are still others like Bethlehem, Galiliee, etc. These are very ancient cities. If Israel had no land in Palestine, why do these lands have Hebrew names? Why is it that Biblical sites and artifacts are bring uncovered there by archeology. Perhaps I didn't understand your point. Kindly clarify.

It's understandable if the kings of Egypt called the Israelites Sashu and wanderers. They were actually wanderers when the came into Egypt. They had no nation according to the Bible. They were 70 in number who came in from Luz in Mesopotamia. They wandered until they settled briefly in Luz, also called Bethel. During the seven year famine, they found their way into Egypt as a family of 70 people. Jacob their father, an old man at the time was also in the company. So, a family that later grew into a large population after long stay in a place would certainly be given a name by the indigenes. It's brainer that the Egyptians call them Sashu. They were wanderers before coming to Egypt. Became sojourners while in Egypt, and became Israelites after leaving Egypt.

Now, is Yahweh a desert God simply because He's worshipped by desert people (Edomites, Moabotes and Ammonites) ? No. Note that Israel, Edom, Moab and Ammon are brethren. They all worship Yahweh but have varying understanding of Him. Each depict Him differently. Abraham was the grandfather of both Edom (Esau) and Israel (Jacob). Abraham was the father figure of Lot through whom the Moabites and the Ammonites descended. All serve the same God through the influence of Abraham but have varying knowledge of Him. Some of them even have a depiction of Him as an idol. All of these nations were Canaanites. So, the depiction of Yahweh as a Canaanite God is well understood. However He's not.

FxMasterz:
Now, is Yahweh a desert God simply because He's worshipped by desert people (Edomites, Moabotes and Ammonites) ? No. Note that Israel, Edom, Moab and Ammon were brethren. They all worship Yahweh but have varying understanding of Him. Each depict Him differently. Abraham was the grandfather of both Edom (Esau) and Israel (Jacob). Abraham was the father figure of Lot through whom the Moabites and the Ammonites descended. All serve the same God through the influence of Abraham but have varying knowledge of Him. Some of them even have a depiction of Him as an idol. All of these nations were Canaanites. So, the depiction of Yahweh as a Canaanite God is well understood. However He's not.