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Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by FOLYKAZE(m): 11:22am On Feb 12
The christian faith is centred on gospel of Jesus and Jewish history as narrated in the bible. The account of Jesus's life and all his theological teachings stem directly from the Genesis creation narrative, Noah flood, Israelite exodus, and Babylonia exile down to the birth of the so called messiah. But since it is found that many of the accounts have no basis in history, how come Christians still hold onto their faith? In the face of reality, vividly exposing that the accounts and narratives from Genesis till the end is fiction, and the characters captured in the entire bible are legends, on what exactly are Christians rooting their faith? Are Christians really trusting on folktales to bring them heaven/paradise they hope for?

The bible accounts, as interesting as it sound have no single basis in history. The creation story, many churches have accepted that it is metaphoric or philosophical which shouldn't be taken as happening at a historic time or place. The catholic and many Christian denominations admitted that the story of Adam and Eve is more allegorical, specially designed for theological purposes, without any basis in history. The Noah and the global flooding account too have no basis in history. Up till this moment, not a single shred of evidence have been found to buttress there was any global flooding on this planet. The global flooding and ark narration have so many parallels which further exposes the mythical nature of the account, having no basis in history. Up till date, no single shred of evidence have been presented that Noah or his Ark existed.

One of the story I loved back then as a child is the Exodus. The account detail Israelis enslavement in Egypt, emancipation by Moses, sojourn through the wilderness and the military campaign that rounded up Canaan. Findings have shown that the whole Exodus is pure work of fiction, not having any fact. There is no Moses, Israelite were never in or enslaved in Egypt, Pharaoh and his people were not plagued by any Yahweh, the Red sea was not parted, the wildernesses sojourn have no basis in history, and Canaan was not overran by Israel military forces. Archaeological evidence revealed that all the accounts about Israel in the bible is myth.

The monarchy reign of David and Solomon in the United kingdom of Israel is all false. Archaeological findings expose that Israel is a small clan in Canaan, having no king. There is no evidence or traces of the Solomon temple. The captivity by Babylon is more reconstructions of facts though. However, the bible rather provides half truth laced with propaganda which makes the whole account unacceptable as historical fact.

The Jesus account is majorly work of fiction. While many would argue that there is a historical personality known as Jesus as recorded by Apostle Paul, Gospels, and non Christian sources like Josephus and Tacitus, the fact remains that these are not eye witness account which can easily be dismissed. The earliest manuscript that recorded the person of Jesus is written somewhere around 60yrs after Jesus crucifixion. The gospel of Matthew, Luke and John all copied from accounts in the book of Mark. The authorship of the gospel of Mark is a subject if debate. However, the general consensus among the scholars is that whoever wrote the gospel of Mark is not providing an eye witness account but simply relaying heavily distorted traditions.

The Zombies invasion and the wingless ascension of Jesus is a popular incidence which would supposedly be witnessed by many people, but no one expect in the gospels wrote about it. Josephus and Tacitus mentioned that a person called Jesus or Christ but left out the major events recorded in the gospel. Josephus original writings has not been found, and scholars argued that the word 'Jesus' found in the Testimonium Flavianum is Christian interpolation. Tacitus was born 25yrs after the death of Jesus. None of this writings provided an eye witness account. They are majorly tradition with no factual basis.

The gospels have loads of inconsistency and contradictions. Apostle Paul admitted he learned the creed. As a matter of fact, Paul's sister and nephew were converted Christians before he converted. He also confessed he met with James and Peter for days, many years after his conversion. So it is nothing new, Paul converted base on tradition he was told to.

At a point, Paul questioned the basis of his faith, exactly what I wanted Christians to do. Apostle Paul, who didn't met Jesus or witnessed his death queried if Jesus truly died and resurrected. He questioned the historicity of Jesus crucifixion, noting with doubt that his faith and missionary job is in vain if peradventure there is no Jesus that died and resurrected. The inquiry furthermore buttressed that Paul only knew the traditional story of Jesus, and not the historical fact. Reason he added that one should find and stick to truth only.

My questions to my brothers who are Christians, how do you keep onto faith knowing that all the narration recorded in the bible have no basis in history? Where exactly is the confidence of hope drawn from knowing that the Bible stories are fables having no substances in history? How can you strongly trust that a Jesus who never exist as accounted would take you to heaven/paradise? What is the basis of your faith; historical fairies or historical facts?

Cc shadeyinka, EMILO2STAY, Maximus69, MuttleyLaff

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Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by MuttleyLaff: 11:39am On Feb 12
FOLYKAZE:
My questions to my brothers who are Christians, how do you keep faith onto faith knowing that all the narration recorded in the bible have no basis in history? Where exactly is the confidence of hope drawn from knowing that the Bible stories are fables having no substances in history? How can you strongly trust that a Jesus who never exist as accounted would take you to heaven/paradise? What is the basis of your faith; historical fairies or historical facts?
Cc shadeyinka, EMILO2STAY, Maximus69, MuttleyLaff

The short answer is, it is drawn from and/or based on, conviction, faith and a little bit of historic facts here and there, my dear friend and brother from another mother

1 Like

Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by Nobody: 11:54am On Feb 12
FOLYKAZE:
The christian faith is centred on gospel of Jesus and Jewish history as narrated in the bible. The account of Jesus's life and all his theological teachings stem directly from the Genesis creation narrative, Noah flood, Israelite exodus, and Babylonia exile down to the birth of the so called messiah. But since it is found that many of the accounts have no basis in history, how come Christians still hold onto their faith? In the face of reality, vividly exposing that the accounts and narratives from Genesis till the end is fiction, and the characters captured in the entire bible are legends, on what exactly are Christians rooting their faith? Are Christians really trusting on folktales to bring them heaven/paradise they hope for?

The bible accounts, as interesting as it sound have no single basis in history. The creation story, many churches have accepted that it is metaphoric or philosophical which shouldn't be taken as happening at a historic time or place. The catholic and many Christian denominations admitted that the story of Adam and Eve is more allegorical, specially designed for theological purposes, without any basis in history. The Noah and the global flooding account too have no basis in history. Up till this moment, not a single shred of evidence have been found to buttress there was any global flooding on this planet. The global flooding and ark narration have so many parallels which further exposes the mythical nature of the account, having no basis in history. Up till date, no single shred of evidence have been presented that Noah or his Ark existed.

One of the story I loved back then as a child is the Exodus. The account detail Israelis enslavement in Egypt, emancipation by Moses, sojourn through the wilderness and the military campaign that rounded up Canaan. Findings have shown that the whole Exodus is pure work of fiction, not having any fact. There is no Moses, Israelite were never in or enslaved in Egypt, Pharaoh and his people were not plagued by any Yahweh, the Red sea was not parted, the wildernesses sojourn have no basis in history, and Canaan was not overran by Israel military forces. Archaeological evidence revealed that all the accounts about Israel in the bible is myth.

The monarchy reign of David and Solomon in the United kingdom of Israel is all false. Archaeological findings expose that Israel is a small clan in Canaan, having no king. There is no evidence or traces of the Solomon temple. The captivity by Babylon is more reconstructions of facts though. However, the bible rather provides half truth laced with propaganda which makes the whole account unacceptable as historical fact.

The Jesus account is majorly work of fiction. While many would argue that there is a historical personality known as Jesus as recorded by Apostle Paul, Gospels, and non Christian sources like Josephus and Tacitus, the fact remains that these are not eye witness account which can easily be dismissed. The earliest manuscript that recorded the person of Jesus is written somewhere around 60yrs after Jesus crucifixion. The gospel of Matthew, Luke and John all copied from accounts in the book of Mark. The authorship of the gospel of Mark is a subject if debate. However, the general consensus among the scholars is that whoever wrote the gospel of Mark is not providing an eye witness account but simply relaying heavily distorted traditions.

The Zombies invasion and the wingless ascension of Jesus is a popular incidence which would supposedly be witnessed by many people, but no one expect in the gospels wrote about it. Josephus and Tacitus mentioned that a person called Jesus or Christ but left out the major events recorded in the gospel. Josephus original writings has not been found, and scholars argued that the word 'Jesus' found in the Testimonium Flavianum is Christian interpolation. Tacitus was born 25yrs after the death of Jesus. None of this writings provided an eye witness account. They are majorly tradition with no factual basis.

The gospels have loads of inconsistency and contradictions. Apostle Paul admitted he learned the creed. As a matter of fact, Paul's sister and nephew were converted Christians before he converted. He also confessed he met with James and Peter for days, many years after his conversion. So it is nothing new, Paul converted base on tradition he was told to.

At a point, Paul questioned the basis of his faith, exactly what I wanted Christians to do. Apostle Paul, who didn't met Jesus or witnessed his death queried if Jesus truly died and resurrected. He questioned the historicity of Jesus crucifixion, noting with doubt that his faith and missionary job is in vain if peradventure there is no Jesus that died and resurrected. The inquiry furthermore buttressed that Paul only knew the traditional story of Jesus, and not the historical fact. Reason he added that one should find and stick to truth only.

My questions to my brothers who are Christians, how do you keep onto faith knowing that all the narration recorded in the bible have no basis in history? Where exactly is the confidence of hope drawn from knowing that the Bible stories are fables having no substances in history? How can you strongly trust that a Jesus who never exist as accounted would take you to heaven/paradise? What is the basis of your faith; historical fairies or historical facts?

Cc shadeyinka, EMILO2STAY, Maximus69, MuttleyLaff
Source??

1 Like

Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by FOLYKAZE(m): 12:04pm On Feb 12
Ob3kpa:
Source??
Bible and archaeological reports
Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by FOLYKAZE(m): 12:31pm On Feb 12
MuttleyLaff:


The short answer is, it is drawn from and/or based on, conviction, faith and a little bit of historic facts here and there, my dear friend and brother from another mother

A little historical fact is not enough. It is synonymous to half truth which is falsity. If your faith is half truth dear friend, isn't this same as saying your faith is based on falsehood and hope is vain?

1 Like

Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by Nobody: 1:11pm On Feb 12
FOLYKAZE:

Bible and archaeological reports
Links to the archaeological reports

1 Like

Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by EMILO2STAY(m): 1:16pm On Feb 12
FOLYKAZE:
The christian faith is centred on gospel of Jesus and Jewish history as narrated in the bible. The account of Jesus's life and all his theological teachings stem directly from the Genesis creation narrative, Noah flood, Israelite exodus, and Babylonia exile down to the birth of the so called messiah. But since it is found that many of the accounts have no basis in history, how come Christians still hold onto their faith? In the face of reality, vividly exposing that the accounts and narratives from Genesis till the end is fiction, and the characters captured in the entire bible are legends, on what exactly are Christians rooting their faith? Are Christians really trusting on folktales to bring them heaven/paradise they hope for?

The bible accounts, as interesting as it sound have no single basis in history. The creation story, many churches have accepted that it is metaphoric or philosophical which shouldn't be taken as happening at a historic time or place. The catholic and many Christian denominations admitted that the story of Adam and Eve is more allegorical, specially designed for theological purposes, without any basis in history. The Noah and the global flooding account too have no basis in history. Up till this moment, not a single shred of evidence have been found to buttress there was any global flooding on this planet. The global flooding and ark narration have so many parallels which further exposes the mythical nature of the account, having no basis in history. Up till date, no single shred of evidence have been presented that Noah or his Ark existed.

One of the story I loved back then as a child is the Exodus. The account detail Israelis enslavement in Egypt, emancipation by Moses, sojourn through the wilderness and the military campaign that rounded up Canaan. Findings have shown that the whole Exodus is pure work of fiction, not having any fact. There is no Moses, Israelite were never in or enslaved in Egypt, Pharaoh and his people were not plagued by any Yahweh, the Red sea was not parted, the wildernesses sojourn have no basis in history, and Canaan was not overran by Israel military forces. Archaeological evidence revealed that all the accounts about Israel in the bible is myth.

The monarchy reign of David and Solomon in the United kingdom of Israel is all false. Archaeological findings expose that Israel is a small clan in Canaan, having no king. There is no evidence or traces of the Solomon temple. The captivity by Babylon is more reconstructions of facts though. However, the bible rather provides half truth laced with propaganda which makes the whole account unacceptable as historical fact.

The Jesus account is majorly work of fiction. While many would argue that there is a historical personality known as Jesus as recorded by Apostle Paul, Gospels, and non Christian sources like Josephus and Tacitus, the fact remains that these are not eye witness account which can easily be dismissed. The earliest manuscript that recorded the person of Jesus is written somewhere around 60yrs after Jesus crucifixion. The gospel of Matthew, Luke and John all copied from accounts in the book of Mark. The authorship of the gospel of Mark is a subject if debate. However, the general consensus among the scholars is that whoever wrote the gospel of Mark is not providing an eye witness account but simply relaying heavily distorted traditions.

The Zombies invasion and the wingless ascension of Jesus is a popular incidence which would supposedly be witnessed by many people, but no one expect in the gospels wrote about it. Josephus and Tacitus mentioned that a person called Jesus or Christ but left out the major events recorded in the gospel. Josephus original writings has not been found, and scholars argued that the word 'Jesus' found in the Testimonium Flavianum is Christian interpolation. Tacitus was born 25yrs after the death of Jesus. None of this writings provided an eye witness account. They are majorly tradition with no factual basis.

The gospels have loads of inconsistency and contradictions. Apostle Paul admitted he learned the creed. As a matter of fact, Paul's sister and nephew were converted Christians before he converted. He also confessed he met with James and Peter for days, many years after his conversion. So it is nothing new, Paul converted base on tradition he was told to.

At a point, Paul questioned the basis of his faith, exactly what I wanted Christians to do. Apostle Paul, who didn't met Jesus or witnessed his death queried if Jesus truly died and resurrected. He questioned the historicity of Jesus crucifixion, noting with doubt that his faith and missionary job is in vain if peradventure there is no Jesus that died and resurrected. The inquiry furthermore buttressed that Paul only knew the traditional story of Jesus, and not the historical fact. Reason he added that one should find and stick to truth only.

My questions to my brothers who are Christians, how do you keep onto faith knowing that all the narration recorded in the bible have no basis in history? Where exactly is the confidence of hope drawn from knowing that the Bible stories are fables having no substances in history? How can you strongly trust that a Jesus who never exist as accounted would take you to heaven/paradise? What is the basis of your faith; historical fairies or historical facts?

Cc shadeyinka, EMILO2STAY, Maximus69, MuttleyLaff
yes the Christian faith is centered on the gospels, Jewish history and the teachings of Jesus christ.
But to say the bible accounts has no historical basis is displaying ignorance.

I believe the bible not just because it is a Christian book but because it is a historical book that tells the real truth about our world and the major event that has happened still happening and yet to happen.

some of the the accounts recorded in the bible were dismissed as myths and fables until they were discovered. This goes to show that the bible is telling the truth even if some account have not been found in other historical records.
The biblical flood story is one which cannot be disputed by anybody in this world unless that person has abandoned the use of their common sense.
The evidence of a global flood is rife all over the world with every tribe and cultures across the world having their own legend and tales of a world wide flood.
The last ice age, the shifting continent, the fossil records the petrified trees and animals the black sea the lakes, the rock formations the grand canyon, these are just a few things that point to a global flood because these things cannot take place with out a sudden catastrophic water.

The historical account of the man "Jesus " might be little but the impact he made is all over the world as he is the founder of the Christian faith which has shaken the entire world till this day. If you study and understand history as regards the major event of this world you will realize that most which happened and is still happening and yet to happen is all because of the true Christians of this world christianity in it self will not be so wide spread if their was not a person like Jesus christ who founded it.

Our Christian faith is based on the teachings of christ which not only leads to the promised eternal life but also leads to living a fulfilling life here on earth.
If the teachings of christ is to be applied on by every person in this world then there would no wars, no famines, no hatred, no greed, no jealousy, no lying, no fighting, no envy, no false accusations, no stealing. But peace, joy, selflessness, love etc.

But world system is corrupt and so cannot do with out wars, greed, hatred. Which is exactly what the bible says. So no Christian should have a shred of doubt about the authenticity of the bible because every thing the bible says has played, is playing and is still yet to play out

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Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by MuttleyLaff: 2:12pm On Feb 12
FOLYKAZE:
A little historical fact is not enough. It is synonymous to half truth which is falsity. If your faith is half truth dear friend, isn't this same as saying your faith is based on falsehood and hope is vain?
Let me rephrase that then, friend.

The short answer is, it is drawn from and/or based on, conviction, faith and available/known historic facts out in there, my dear friend and brother from another mother.

If there were any half truths anywhere in my faith, I'll be the first to draw attention to it.

Everything about our Lord Jesus Christ and Saviour of the world are absolute truth. There are no lies to be found about Him.

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Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by FOLYKAZE(m): 2:55pm On Feb 12
MuttleyLaff:
Let me rephrase that then, friend.

The short answer is, it is drawn from and/or based on, conviction, faith and available/known historic facts out in there, my dear friend and brother from another mother.

If there were any half truths anywhere in my faith, I'll be the first to draw attention to it.

Everything about our Lord Jesus Christ and Saviour of the world are absolute truth. There are no lies to be found about Him.

Oh well, the available records about Jesus, within and outside the bible are all retorted traditional stories. Available historical facts indicate that such personality that flew without wings or propelled engine into the sky does not exist. Bible recorded at the point when this man called Jesus died, there was zombies everywhere. If the account is truth, and witnessed by many people, there would have been records of the zombie incident. So far so food sir, there is no historical fact which point to the existence of the person called Jesus.

I will appreciate, any historical document, written by eye witness about the person of Jesus. Thanks

3 Likes

Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by MuttleyLaff: 3:19pm On Feb 12
FOLYKAZE:
Oh well, the available records about Jesus, within and outside the bible are all retorted traditional stories. Available historical facts indicate that such personality that flew without wings or propelled engine into the sky does not exist. Bible recorded at the point when this man called Jesus died, there was zombies everywhere. If the account is truth, and witnessed by many people, there would have been records of the zombie incident. So far so food sir, there is no historical fact which point to the existence of the person called Jesus.
I know you are well versed in ATR, say, particularly talking about Sango, for an example and I am 10000% sure you have no qualms about Shango without wings/propulsion, ascended to heaven, lol

FOLYKAZE:
I will appreciate, any historical document, written by eye witness about the person of Jesus. Thanks
I will after you've first shown me historical document, written by eye witness about the person of Shango and/or Ọṣun who turned into the river at Oshogbo.

1 Like

Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by FOLYKAZE(m): 3:39pm On Feb 12
EMILO2STAY:

yes the Christian faith is centered on the gospels, Jewish history and the teachings of Jesus christ.
But to say the bible accounts has no historical basis is displaying ignorance.

I believe the bible not just because it is a Christian book but because it is a historical book that tells the real truth about our world and the major event that has happened still happening and yet to happen.

some of the the accounts recorded in the bible were dismissed as myths and fables until they were discovered. This goes to show that the bible is telling the truth even if some account have not been found in other historical records.

As per the emboldened, I will appreciate it if you can tell us one of the accounts in the bible that was dismissed as fable, and later admitted or discovered it is fact.

All through the time, efforts to beam light into bible accounts and narratives have expose those accounts are father from been reality.

EMILO2STAY:
The biblical flood story is one which cannot be disputed by anybody in this world unless that person has abandoned the use of their common sense.
The evidence of a global flood is rife all over the world with every tribe and cultures across the world having their own legend and tales of a world wide flood.
The last ice age, the shifting continent, the fossil records the petrified trees and animals the black sea the lakes, the rock formations the grand canyon, these are just a few things that point to a global flood because these things cannot take place with out a sudden catastrophic water.

1. Myth and fables from different cultures across the world is not equivalent to fact. And the fact that there are parallel flood fables across different cultures doesn't make Noah account in the genesis truth.

2. Ice age, shifting of the continent, fossil records and rock formations are not evidence for Noah flood account.
The Noah flooding as recorded in the bible happened possibly 5000 yrs ago. Ice age and fossils date back to millions of years ago. Rocks have been forming, currently forming and would form in the future. None of this points to Noah story.

3. Noah flood account have brought many hoaxes and conspiracies from people who claimed they found the ark somewhere around Armenia. Modern findings have exposed the Ark discoveries as fraud.

So far so good, there is no tangible evidence that can punctuate that Noah flood account is truth. I will appreciate if you can provide evidence sir.

EMILO2STAY:
The historical account of the man "Jesus " might be little but the impact he made is all over the world as he is the founder of the Christian faith which has shaken the entire world till this day. If you study and understand history as regards the major event of this world you will realize that most which happened and is still happening and yet to happen is all because of the true Christians of this world christianity in it self will not be so wide spread if their was not a person like Jesus christ who founded it.

Our Christian faith is based on the teachings of christ which not only leads to the promised eternal life but also leads to living a fulfilling life here on earth.
If the teachings of christ is to be applied on by every person in this world then there would no wars, no famines, no hatred, no greed, no jealousy, no lying, no fighting, no envy, no false accusations, no stealing. But peace, joy, selflessness, love etc.

But world system is corrupt and so cannot do with out wars, greed, hatred. Which is exactly what the bible says. So no Christian should have a shred of doubt about the authenticity of the bible because every thing the bible says has played, is playing and is still yet to play out

The OP focuses on the person, not the message of the person of Jesus. The OP wants to know the basis of your faith, upon what it is founded. Considering now that you know that the characters from Jesus down to Adam are fictional, would you still remain a Christian?

Jesus the person described in the bible does not exist. There could be a historical person known as Jesus or Christ. My point is that the person known as Jesus in the bible, performing wonders, flying without wings, resurrecting zombies, doing all powerful things before people should have eye witness records. However, the earliest record about him was only written 60yrs after he is dead. None of the gospel is an eye witness record. Apostle Paul confessed about the creed and meeting with Peter for days. And the many contradictions and inconsistency reveal that this person does not exist.

If I were to ask.... What are the evidences that prove Jesus existed. Do you have an eye witness account that prove the existence of this man?

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Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by FOLYKAZE(m): 3:59pm On Feb 12
MuttleyLaff:
I know you are well versed in ATR, say, particularly talking about Sango, for an example and I am 10000% sure you have no qualms about Shango without wings/propulsion, ascended to heaven, lol

I will after you've first shown me historical document, written by eye witness about the person of Shango and/or Ọṣun who turned into the river at Oshogbo.

Seriously, I knew you will bring Sango or whatever into the discussion. But sorry to burst your bubble faster than expected dear.

1. Sango stories in Ifa are all traditional stories. Ifa/Orunmila are known as Erigi alo (tale teller).

2. Not a single Babalawo ever claimed that there is a figure who breathe fire in Oyo kingdom. They all agreed the account are metaphor or allegory used to convey messages.

3. There existed a Man called Sango in Oyo Kingdom. There is a documented fact the person existed but he doesn't breathe fire.

4. As a matter of fact, pataki or narration of Ifa are historical legends defined as a legend constructed in historical figures purposely to convey a message beyond such figure.

You see?

How is this different from Bible and Christianity...

1. The Jesus stories are told as fact and reality even when there is no evidence.

2. Christians like EMILO2STAY are claiming Bible hold historical facts. And the incident of ascension or the zombie invasion happened as reality.

3. Not single account in the bible about Jesus match any documents about incidence. Not a single historian write about ascension or zombie invasion. They are all lies.



Then I begin to wonder how you and your colleague in Christ could hold fast to these accounts as truth when they are infact the opppsite. Doesn't the knowledge that Jesus didn't exist as a person shaken your faith in him? Should your faith be based on fantasy and fiction or reality and fact?

6 Likes

Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by shadeyinka(m): 4:13pm On Feb 12
FOLYKAZE:
The christian faith is centred on gospel of Jesus and Jewish history as narrated in the bible. The account of Jesus's life and all his theological teachings stem directly from the Genesis creation narrative, Noah flood, Israelite exodus, and Babylonia exile down to the birth of the so called messiah. But since it is found that many of the accounts have no basis in history, how come Christians still hold onto their faith? In the face of reality, vividly exposing that the accounts and narratives from Genesis till the end is fiction, and the characters captured in the entire bible are legends, on what exactly are Christians rooting their faith? Are Christians really trusting on folktales to bring them heaven/paradise they hope for?

The bible accounts, as interesting as it sound have no single basis in history. The creation story, many churches have accepted that it is metaphoric or philosophical which shouldn't be taken as happening at a historic time or place. The catholic and many Christian denominations admitted that the story of Adam and Eve is more allegorical, specially designed for theological purposes, without any basis in history. The Noah and the global flooding account too have no basis in history. Up till this moment, not a single shred of evidence have been found to buttress there was any global flooding on this planet. The global flooding and ark narration have so many parallels which further exposes the mythical nature of the account, having no basis in history. Up till date, no single shred of evidence have been presented that Noah or his Ark existed.

One of the story I loved back then as a child is the Exodus. The account detail Israelis enslavement in Egypt, emancipation by Moses, sojourn through the wilderness and the military campaign that rounded up Canaan. Findings have shown that the whole Exodus is pure work of fiction, not having any fact. There is no Moses, Israelite were never in or enslaved in Egypt, Pharaoh and his people were not plagued by any Yahweh, the Red sea was not parted, the wildernesses sojourn have no basis in history, and Canaan was not overran by Israel military forces. Archaeological evidence revealed that all the accounts about Israel in the bible is myth.

The monarchy reign of David and Solomon in the United kingdom of Israel is all false. Archaeological findings expose that Israel is a small clan in Canaan, having no king. There is no evidence or traces of the Solomon temple. The captivity by Babylon is more reconstructions of facts though. However, the bible rather provides half truth laced with propaganda which makes the whole account unacceptable as historical fact.

The Jesus account is majorly work of fiction. While many would argue that there is a historical personality known as Jesus as recorded by Apostle Paul, Gospels, and non Christian sources like Josephus and Tacitus, the fact remains that these are not eye witness account which can easily be dismissed. The earliest manuscript that recorded the person of Jesus is written somewhere around 60yrs after Jesus crucifixion. The gospel of Matthew, Luke and John all copied from accounts in the book of Mark. The authorship of the gospel of Mark is a subject if debate. However, the general consensus among the scholars is that whoever wrote the gospel of Mark is not providing an eye witness account but simply relaying heavily distorted traditions.

The Zombies invasion and the wingless ascension of Jesus is a popular incidence which would supposedly be witnessed by many people, but no one expect in the gospels wrote about it. Josephus and Tacitus mentioned that a person called Jesus or Christ but left out the major events recorded in the gospel. Josephus original writings has not been found, and scholars argued that the word 'Jesus' found in the Testimonium Flavianum is Christian interpolation. Tacitus was born 25yrs after the death of Jesus. None of this writings provided an eye witness account. They are majorly tradition with no factual basis.

The gospels have loads of inconsistency and contradictions. Apostle Paul admitted he learned the creed. As a matter of fact, Paul's sister and nephew were converted Christians before he converted. He also confessed he met with James and Peter for days, many years after his conversion. So it is nothing new, Paul converted base on tradition he was told to.

At a point, Paul questioned the basis of his faith, exactly what I wanted Christians to do. Apostle Paul, who didn't met Jesus or witnessed his death queried if Jesus truly died and resurrected. He questioned the historicity of Jesus crucifixion, noting with doubt that his faith and missionary job is in vain if peradventure there is no Jesus that died and resurrected. The inquiry furthermore buttressed that Paul only knew the traditional story of Jesus, and not the historical fact. Reason he added that one should find and stick to truth only.

My questions to my brothers who are Christians, how do you keep onto faith knowing that all the narration recorded in the bible have no basis in history? Where exactly is the confidence of hope drawn from knowing that the Bible stories are fables having no substances in history? How can you strongly trust that a Jesus who never exist as accounted would take you to heaven/paradise? What is the basis of your faith; historical fairies or historical facts?

Cc shadeyinka, EMILO2STAY, Maximus69, MuttleyLaff
If half of what you've written is the pure truth, it would have been worthy of a reply but it isn't, so why waste precious time.

I will ask you then:
What are your suggestions to Christians? What do you offer as a replacement? For if you have none, it's better to have minded your own business!

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Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by FOLYKAZE(m): 4:31pm On Feb 12
shadeyinka:

If half of what you've written is the pure truth, it would have been worthy of a reply but it isn't, so why waste precious time.

I will ask you then:
What are your suggestions to Christians? What do you offer as a replacement? For if you have none, it's better to have minded your own business!


Isn't this funny? You are suggesting my submission have no iota of truth yet you refused to tell us what the truth is. Lol

What is my suggestion and possible replacement? Thing is, I am not promoting any religion because they all sell one thing to the people, illusion of hope. Religion is the opium of the masses, shouldn't be taken away from them but should be shown that what they believe is hot air and ultimate hopelessness.

While we should leave that aside and focus on Pauline's duty of verification according to 1 Thessalonians 5:21. And his fear in 1 corinthian 15. Can you tell us if you consider Bible accounts as truth? What would you remain faithful if you realise the bible accounts are fables, having no prints in history?

4 Likes

Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by budaatum: 4:40pm On Feb 12
The Republic is a fictional philosophical work written by a guy called Plato. It is fictional because the dialogue he uses to express his philosophy never happened. Some even claim that some of the people engaging in the dialogue never existed so it isn't historical at all. But I have faith that if you read, or listen to it, as is this case, you would become much smarter and wiser than you currently are, and it might help you understand how even made up parables enhance human living.

3 Likes

Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by FOLYKAZE(m): 4:57pm On Feb 12
budaatum:
The Republic is a fictional philosophical work written by a guy called Plato. It is fictional because the dialogue he uses to express his philosophy never happened. Some even claim that some of the people engaging in the dialogue never existed so it isn't historical at all. But I have faith that if you read, or listen to it, as is this case, you would become much smarter and wiser than you currently are, and it might help you understand how even made up parables enhance human living.


Budda would be a great magician. Pointing to the right when his trick is developing in the left.

The OP isn't about the message but the messenger. Maybe just maybe budda is admitting the messenger is fictional and that we shouldn't bother about that. But hey, the reality of the messenger put more relevance on the message. In the face when the messenger is hoax, the message is implausible.
Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by budaatum: 5:26pm On Feb 12
FOLYKAZE:


Budda would be a great magician. Pointing to the right when his trick is developing in the left.

The OP isn't about the message but the messenger. Maybe just maybe budda is admitting the messenger is fictional and that we shouldn't bother about that. But hey, the reality of the messenger put more relevance on the message. In the face when the messenger is hoax, the message is implausible.
The messenger is irrelevant, unless by messenger you mean God! You don't even know who the messenger is to be honest, because that could be the author of the scriptures you speak of and you don't exactly have much detail about those authors. But that still does not invalidate the message. It is still beneficial that we love our neighbours and our enemies moreso.

You are likely thinking, no, the messenger is the Jesus Christ or the other characters in the book, but you would be missing the point that those people are actually part of the message, just as the Buddha is a massive part of the message of Buddhism as those who bother to study what we have of his life today would understand.

I have a particular example you might want to consider. Please see this thread and let me know if you detect an error in perspective. Its one we call the strawman fallacy, as in, when one sets up one's own perspective and claims that is the only perspective everyone has and must have and there cannot possibly be any other. Another word for it is blindness, and its based on ones own narrow ignorant parochial view. You may see it in how the respondent points a finger at others without noticing his other fingers are pointing to himself. And despite how much we try to make him (and you) reflect and see what is meant, his response is "Budda would be a great magician. Pointing to the right when his trick is developing in the left", though I doubt you would understand the similarities.

This is about the ability to read and understand. There are levels, and not everyone is on the same one.
Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by MuttleyLaff: 5:35pm On Feb 12
FOLYKAZE:
Seriously, I knew you will bring Sango or whatever into the discussion. But sorry to burst your bubble faster than expected dear.

1. Sango stories in Ifa are all traditional stories. Ifa/Orunmila are known as Erigi alo (tale teller).

2. Not a single Babalawo ever claimed that there is a figure who breathe fire in Oyo kingdom. They all agreed the account are metaphor or allegory used to convey messages.

3. There existed a Man called Sango in Oyo Kingdom. There is a documented fact the person existed but he doesn't breathe fire.

4. As a matter of fact, pataki or narration of Ifa are historical legends defined as a legend constructed in historical figures purposely to convey a message beyond such figure.

You see?

How is this different from Bible and Christianity...

1. The Jesus stories are told as fact and reality even when there is no evidence.

2. Christians like EMILO2STAY are claiming Bible hold historical facts. And the incident of ascension or the zombie invasion happened as reality.

3. Not single account in the bible about Jesus match any documents about incidence. Not a single historian write about ascension or zombie invasion. They are all lies.

Then I begin to wonder how you and your colleague in Christ could hold fast to these accounts as truth when they are infact the opppsite. Doesn't the knowledge that Jesus didn't exist as a person shaken your faith in him? Should your faith be based on fantasy and fiction or reality and fact?
I see you conveniently did havent anything to say about Ọṣun who turned into that river at Osogbo, lol and who is worshipped plus yearly is offered sacrifices, lol.

You out of all people should know better that Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour of the world is not a myth, fantasy nor fiction.
Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by FOLYKAZE(m): 5:46pm On Feb 12
MuttleyLaff:
I see you conveniently did havent anything to say about Ọṣun who turned into that river at Osogbo, lol and who is worshipped plus yearly is offered sacrifices, lol.

You out of all people should know better that Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour of the world is not a myth, fantasy nor fiction.

The whole Osun stories like Sango is allegorical. The essence Osun river is what people worship. The deity is explained through Osun personal nature.

And brother, you are the one telling me, an ignorant folk, that Jesus isn't myth or fantasy without presenting evidence from eye witness to prove he existed.

I have shown in the the OP that the gospel account are not acceptable with the bogus inconsistencies and contradictions. You darling friend should present your evidence and let us analyze it.

Let me ask Muttley, is your faith based on on unverifiable and unsubstantiated statements, and arguably on falsity?

1 Like

Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by EMILO2STAY(m): 5:47pm On Feb 12
FOLYKAZE:


As per the emboldened, I will appreciate it if you can tell us one of the accounts in the bible that was dismissed as fable, and later admitted or discovered it is fact.

All through the time, efforts to beam light into bible accounts and narratives have expose those accounts are father from been reality.
the city of tyre and sidon spoken of in the bible was once considered to be fables until it was discovered. No documentation recorded of pontus pilate until an evidence of him was discovered. I can give you more but no time now.



FOLYKAZE:
1. Myth and fables from different cultures across the world is not equivalent to fact. And the fact that there are parallel flood fables across different cultures doesn't make Noah account in the genesis truth.
there is no smoke without fire. For different cultures across the world who have never met to hold a legend so similar is a pointer to the fact that it happened world wide, but not only that, it bears a striking resemblance to the account of the bible. This is an evidence that there was once a global flooding. Even main stream science admitted a catastrophic flooding on the earth but only to say that it was not world wide. Any body who looks at the fossil records and how some animals were perfectly petrified with so much detail will admit it takes flooding and a short time for such to happen.

FOLYKAZE:
2. Ice age, shifting of the continent, fossil records and rock formations are not evidence for Noah flood account.
The Noah flooding as recorded in the bible happened possibly 5000 yrs ago. Ice age and fossils date back to millions of years ago. Rocks have been forming, currently forming and would form in the future. None of this points to Noah story.
these are evidence of a world wide catastrophic event brought upon by water and has been scientifically proven.
Carbon dating is a faulty system of dating as it has been shown to be very unreliable. Even a living snail was carbon dated to have died thousands of years ago, no real scientist regards carbon dating. Soft tissues and red blood cells were found in the bone of a tyranausarus rex, something which is impossible if it were over 60million years old. Have you witnessed the formation of a rock before? There are rocks with foot prints of both man and animals on them telling you that they were once like a mud . The grand canyon in america shows sign of flooding which cannot be denied There is no evidence of this world been older than six thousand years old. It is a proven fact through historical records that All human beings migrated from the near east around babylonia which os the area of the earliest recorded civilization.

FOLYKAZE:
3. Noah flood account have brought many hoaxes and conspiracies from people who claimed they found the ark somewhere around Armenia. Modern findings have exposed the Ark discoveries as fraud.

So far so good, there is no tangible evidence that can punctuate that Noah flood account is truth. I will appreciate if you can provide evidence sir.
flavius josephus gave an account of the the ark and stated that it can still be seen on the mountains of ararat as at his own time. Now given the deplorable condition of the wooden object it might be difficult to tell wether it was noahs ark or not. But there definitely exist a large object of petrified wooden structure that lies on that mountain till this day, wether it was noahs ark or not one cannot tell precisely



FOLYKAZE:
The OP focuses on the person, not the message of the person of Jesus. The OP wants to know the basis of your faith, upon what it is founded. Considering now that you know that the characters from Jesus down to Adam are fictional, would you still remain a Christian?

Jesus the person described in the bible does not exist. There could be a historical person known as Jesus or Christ. My point is that the person known as Jesus in the bible, performing wonders, flying without wings, resurrecting zombies, doing all powerful things before people should have eye witness records. However, the earliest record about him was only written 60yrs after he is dead. None of the gospel is an eye witness record. Apostle Paul confessed about the creed and meeting with Peter for days. And the many contradictions and inconsistency reveal that this person does not exist.

If I were to ask.... What are the evidences that prove Jesus existed. Do you have an eye witness account that prove the existence of this man?
the message of the person and the impact of his message is an evidence of the existence of the person as such a thing is not possible without the person not existing. The gospels are copies of copies of accounts of men who witnessed christ. The apostle Paul did not doubt the existence of christ, he saw christ in his glorified form and this is his reason for becoming a Christian himself.. The epistles of Paul is an eye witness record, the writings of John the revelator was an eye witness record. These men saw christ in his glorified form.

The man christ Jesus cannot be a work of fiction because the impact of his teaching and the religion he founded has continued to shake the world till this day. But not only that the prophecies foretold by the gospels is witnessed by all today. If christ does not exist then who founded Christianity? Why do Christians exist today? Even after so much deadly effort by the romans and the catholic church to exterminate them?
If christ is a work of fiction then who is responsible for that work of fiction can you name any body who is responsible for that work of fiction?.
Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by macof(m): 6:00pm On Feb 12
FOLYKAZE:
The christian faith is centred on gospel of Jesus and Jewish history as narrated in the bible. The account of Jesus's life and all his theological teachings stem directly from the Genesis creation narrative, Noah flood, Israelite exodus, and Babylonia exile down to the birth of the so called messiah. But since it is found that many of the accounts have no basis in history, how come Christians still hold onto their faith? In the face of reality, vividly exposing that the accounts and narratives from Genesis till the end is fiction, and the characters captured in the entire bible are legends, on what exactly are Christians rooting their faith? Are Christians really trusting on folktales to bring them heaven/paradise they hope for?

The bible accounts, as interesting as it sound have no single basis in history. The creation story, many churches have accepted that it is metaphoric or philosophical which shouldn't be taken as happening at a historic time or place. The catholic and many Christian denominations admitted that the story of Adam and Eve is more allegorical, specially designed for theological purposes, without any basis in history. The Noah and the global flooding account too have no basis in history. Up till this moment, not a single shred of evidence have been found to buttress there was any global flooding on this planet. The global flooding and ark narration have so many parallels which further exposes the mythical nature of the account, having no basis in history. Up till date, no single shred of evidence have been presented that Noah or his Ark existed.

One of the story I loved back then as a child is the Exodus. The account detail Israelis enslavement in Egypt, emancipation by Moses, sojourn through the wilderness and the military campaign that rounded up Canaan. Findings have shown that the whole Exodus is pure work of fiction, not having any fact. There is no Moses, Israelite were never in or enslaved in Egypt, Pharaoh and his people were not plagued by any Yahweh, the Red sea was not parted, the wildernesses sojourn have no basis in history, and Canaan was not overran by Israel military forces. Archaeological evidence revealed that all the accounts about Israel in the bible is myth.

The monarchy reign of David and Solomon in the United kingdom of Israel is all false. Archaeological findings expose that Israel is a small clan in Canaan, having no king. There is no evidence or traces of the Solomon temple. The captivity by Babylon is more reconstructions of facts though. However, the bible rather provides half truth laced with propaganda which makes the whole account unacceptable as historical fact.

The Jesus account is majorly work of fiction. While many would argue that there is a historical personality known as Jesus as recorded by Apostle Paul, Gospels, and non Christian sources like Josephus and Tacitus, the fact remains that these are not eye witness account which can easily be dismissed. The earliest manuscript that recorded the person of Jesus is written somewhere around 60yrs after Jesus crucifixion. The gospel of Matthew, Luke and John all copied from accounts in the book of Mark. The authorship of the gospel of Mark is a subject if debate. However, the general consensus among the scholars is that whoever wrote the gospel of Mark is not providing an eye witness account but simply relaying heavily distorted traditions.

The Zombies invasion and the wingless ascension of Jesus is a popular incidence which would supposedly be witnessed by many people, but no one expect in the gospels wrote about it. Josephus and Tacitus mentioned that a person called Jesus or Christ but left out the major events recorded in the gospel. Josephus original writings has not been found, and scholars argued that the word 'Jesus' found in the Testimonium Flavianum is Christian interpolation. Tacitus was born 25yrs after the death of Jesus. None of this writings provided an eye witness account. They are majorly tradition with no factual basis.

The gospels have loads of inconsistency and contradictions. Apostle Paul admitted he learned the creed. As a matter of fact, Paul's sister and nephew were converted Christians before he converted. He also confessed he met with James and Peter for days, many years after his conversion. So it is nothing new, Paul converted base on tradition he was told to.

At a point, Paul questioned the basis of his faith, exactly what I wanted Christians to do. Apostle Paul, who didn't met Jesus or witnessed his death queried if Jesus truly died and resurrected. He questioned the historicity of Jesus crucifixion, noting with doubt that his faith and missionary job is in vain if peradventure there is no Jesus that died and resurrected. The inquiry furthermore buttressed that Paul only knew the traditional story of Jesus, and not the historical fact. Reason he added that one should find and stick to truth only.

My questions to my brothers who are Christians, how do you keep onto faith knowing that all the narration recorded in the bible have no basis in history? Where exactly is the confidence of hope drawn from knowing that the Bible stories are fables having no substances in history? How can you strongly trust that a Jesus who never exist as accounted would take you to heaven/paradise? What is the basis of your faith; historical fairies or historical facts?

Cc shadeyinka, EMILO2STAY, Maximus69, MuttleyLaff

Folykaze the man. You are back again

2 Likes

Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by FOLYKAZE(m): 6:01pm On Feb 12
budaatum:

The messenger is irrelevant, unless by messenger you mean God! You don't even know who the messenger is to be honest, because that could be the author of the scriptures you speak of and you don't exactly have much detail about those authors. But that still does not invalidate the message. It is still beneficial that we love our neighbours and our enemies moreso.

The message is as important as the messenger. In a case the messenger is exposed as intelligent construction or hoax, the message burns, vaporize and won't hit target. Apostle Paul particularly saw that the messenger is important, more important than the message. Reason he said in 1 Cor 15 that if Jesus wasn't dead as accounted in the creed, the whole faith and mission is vanity. Though he didn't justify the messenger is real, but he revealed the messenger is more important than any other thing.

budaatum:
You are likely thinking, no, the messenger is the Jesus Christ or the other characters in the book, but you would be missing the point that those people are actually part of the message, just as the Buddha is a massive part of the message of Buddhism as those who bother to study what we have of his life today would understand.

This whole thing have been addressed in the OP. The Christian faith is founded on Jesus teaching which stemmed from creation story, Noah flood, exodus and Babylon captivity. The whole account have no root in history. Simple.

budaatum:
I have a particular example you might want to consider. Please see this thread and let me know if you detect an error in perspective. Its one we call the strawman fallacy, as in, when one sets up one's own perspective and claims that is the only perspective everyone has and must have and there cannot possibly be any other. Another word for it is blindness, and its based on ones own narrow ignorant parochial view. You may see it in how the respondent points a finger at others without noticing his other fingers are pointing to himself. And despite how much we try to make him (and you) reflect and see what is meant, his response is "Budda would be a great magician. Pointing to the right when his trick is developing in the left", though I doubt you would understand the similarities.

This is about the ability to read and understand. There are levels, and not everyone is on the same one.

Your effort at making me see the message and dropping the messenger is a twist which taste bad. Point to the right direction, let us discuss the messenger sir. It is far important than you think
Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by FOLYKAZE(m): 6:03pm On Feb 12
macof:

Folykaze the man. You are back again
Comrade, how things?

I am always here though anonymous. How are you doing?
Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by shadeyinka(m): 6:11pm On Feb 12
FOLYKAZE:



Isn't this funny? You are suggesting my submission have no iota of truth yet you refused to tell us what the truth is. Lol

What is my suggestion and possible replacement? Thing is, I am not promoting any religion because they all sell one thing to the people, illusion of hope. Religion is the opium of the masses, shouldn't be taken away from them but should be shown that what they believe is hot air and ultimate hopelessness.

While we should leave that aside and focus on Pauline's duty of verification according to 1 Thessalonians 5:21. And his fear in 1 corinthian 15. Can you tell us if you consider Bible accounts as truth? What would you remain faithful if you realise the bible accounts are fables, having no prints in history?
You set up a grub of lies based upon the truth and you expect me to correct a pathological liar's script!?
God forbid. You can choose whatever you want to believe. Some people even believe that the earth is flat. My argument changes nothing.

Therefore, my strength is for more productive and sincere discuss.

1 Like

Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by MuttleyLaff: 6:14pm On Feb 12
FOLYKAZE:
The whole Osun stories like Sango is allegorical. The essence Osun river is what people worship. The deity is explained through Osun personal nature.

And brother, you are the one telling me, an ignorant folk, that Jesus isn't myth or fantasy without presenting evidence from eye witness to prove he existed.

I have shown in the the OP that the gospel account are not acceptable with the bogus inconsistencies and contradictions. You darling friend should present your evidence and let us analyze it.

Let me ask Muttley, is your faith based on on unverifiable and unsubstantiated statements, and arguably on falsity?
I am 10000% sure you unquestionably believe in Olodumare and dont ever contest Olodumare's existence. Two can play this game FOLYKAZE, have verifiable and substantiated evidences of Olodumare? Or it simply, is a case of conviction, like what I have of Jesus, hmm, lol?

Belief in Jesus, is not a do or die literally business FOLYKAZE. Seems something about Jesus is on your mind, tugging at you and this has led you to go open this thread.
Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by budaatum: 6:19pm On Feb 12
FOLYKAZE:


The message is as important as the messenger.
Yes "the message is as important as the messenger", depending on the level that you are at. As I said, "Just as the Buddha is a massive part of the message of Buddhism as those who bother to study what we have of his life today would understand".

You'd note that for some, the message is "the cross", or "accept Jesus into your life". This is a focus on the messenger, and you might detect them in their use of the word 'believe'. But for some, its way much deeper than that and involves an understanding of how the book and information therein came about, what its effect has been over time, what are the implications if its existence, why it has endured so long, what would the world be like if it didn't exist, are there similar texts, will there be other texts in the future, how does it motivate, and so on and so on.

As is written therein, When John, who was in prison and heard about the deeds of the Messiah, he sent his disciples to ask him, “Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?”

Jesus replied, “Go back and report to John what you hear and see: The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy b are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is proclaimed to the poor. Blessed is anyone who does not stumble on account of me.”


Essentially, each person understands (receives) according to their ability (and needs). So it would be rather pointless of either of us insisting our own understanding is the only understanding and that the understanding of the other "tastes bad".
Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by FOLYKAZE(m): 6:43pm On Feb 12
EMILO2STAY:
the city of tyre and sidon spoken of in the bible was once considered to be fables until it was discovered. No documentation recorded of pontus pilate until an evidence of him was discovered. I can give you more but no time now.

That the name of a town, cities, person or animal is mentioned in a tale doesn't make it truth.


EMILO2STAY:
there is no smoke without fire. For different cultures across the world who have never met to hold a legend so similar is a pointer to the fact that it happened world wide, but not only that, it bears a striking resemblance to the account of the bible. This is an evidence that there was once a global flooding. Even main stream science admitted a catastrophic flooding on the earth but only to say that it was not world wide. Any body who looks at the fossil records and how some animals were perfectly petrified with so much detail will admit it takes flooding and a short time for such to happen.

Many cultures use tales and myth to convey messages, and not treating myth as historical fact. The bible as retorted by Christians is that the whole account is factual base on historic happenings. The myth is actually what it is, fiction and folktales with no substance in reality. Equating both account is fallacy, making your own case implausible. Myth cannot authenticate reality.

The Noah account is dated to be around 5000yrs ago, and the fossil found dates back to millions of yrs. How does the two correlate?



EMILO2STAY:
these are evidence of a world wide catastrophic event brought upon by water and has been scientifically proven.
Carbon dating is a faulty system of dating as it has been shown to be very unreliable. Even a living snail was carbon dated to have died thousands of years ago, no real scientist regards carbon dating. Soft tissues and red blood cells were found in the bone of a tyranausarus rex, something which is impossible if it were over 60million years old. Have you witnessed the formation of a rock before? There are rocks with foot prints of both man and animals on them telling you that they were once like a mud . The grand canyon in america shows sign of flooding which cannot be denied There is no evidence of this world been older than six thousand years old. It is a proven fact through historical records that All human beings migrated from the near east around babylonia which os the area of the earliest recorded civilization.

Can you present evidence to the emboldened. Living snail dating back to thousands of years. I will appreciate that sir.

EMILO2STAY:
flavius josephus gave an account of the the ark and stated that it can still be seen on the mountains of ararat as at his own time. Now given the deplorable condition of the wooden object it might be difficult to tell wether it was noahs ark or not. But there definitely exist a large object of petrified wooden structure that lies on that mountain till this day, wether it was noahs ark or not one cannot tell precisely

Josephus record is not an eye witness account. The discovery of the Ark have been exposed as hoax and total fraud. You can present your evidence if you have one.



EMILO2STAY:
the message of the person and the impact of his message is an evidence of the existence of the person as such a thing is not possible without the person not existing. The gospels are copies of copies of accounts of men who witnessed christ. The apostle Paul did not doubt the existence of christ, he saw christ in his glorified form and this is his reason for becoming a Christian himself.. The epistles of Paul is an eye witness record, the writings of John the revelator was an eye witness record. These men saw christ in his glorified form.

1. Lady justice is important to the whole world as she constitute orderliness, law and justice among the people. Lady Justice however doesn't exist.

2. The gospel of Matthew, Luke and John largely copied from the gospel of Mark. The gospel of mark was written several decades after Jesus was dead. And scholars consensus is that the author of gospel of mark do not have understanding of geography, politics and popular figures of Jesus time. Till date, the author of gospel of Mark is unknown, and definitely not Jesus disciple. The author probably is recounting tradition and popular belief of the Jew, and not an eye witness.

3. I don't know what you call 1 Cor 15:3, 14 and 17 is an indication of doubt and fear.

4. Apostle Paul according to the scripture didn't see Jesus, he read about him in the scripture and the Creed. Much of the Paul account is recorded 60yrs after Jesus death, there is no way he is an eye witness of Jesus.

EMILO2STAY:
The man christ Jesus cannot be a work of fiction because the impact of his teaching and the religion he founded has continued to shake the world till this day. But not only that the prophecies foretold by the gospels is witnessed by all today. If christ does not exist then who founded Christianity? Why do Christians exist today? Even after so much deadly effort by the romans and the catholic church to exterminate them?
If christ is a work of fiction then who is responsible for that work of fiction can you name any body who is responsible for that work of fiction?.

Buddha wrote many philosophical thoughts which shake the whole Asia. The adherent of buddhism practise the religion till date but we all know that Buddha is fiction, not born with the the help of elephant.

We also know that Mohammed didnt flew up and cut the moon into half even when we have billions of Muslims across the world. That moon cutting story is fiction.

All these ain't different from the account of Jesus and the religion, Christianity.

2 Likes

Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by FOLYKAZE(m): 6:49pm On Feb 12
shadeyinka:

You set up a grub of lies based upon the truth and you expect me to correct a pathological liar's script!?
God forbid. You can choose whatever you want to believe. Some people even believe that the earth is flat. My argument changes nothing.

Therefore, my strength is for more productive and sincere discuss.

Did I say I was right? Nope. I found some substantial evidence that exposes the bible accounts as myth. It is your duty to present evidence that the account in the bible is reality.
Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by FOLYKAZE(m): 6:56pm On Feb 12
MuttleyLaff:
I am 10000% sure you unquestionably believe in Olodumare and dont ever contest Olodumare's existence. Two can play this game FOLY, have verifiable and substantiated evidences of Oludumare? Or it simply, is a case of conviction, like what I have of Jesus, hmm, lol?

Olodumare does not interfere in human activities and realities.

Can you quite red herring pls? Let us focus on Jesus and the bible.

MuttleyLaff:
Belief in Jesus, is not a do or die literally business FOLY. Seems something about Jesus is on your mind, tugging at you and this has led you to go open this thread.

I visited the church, I told you. And the pastor subtly sent me out. Asked me to stop asking questions in his church and directed me to have encounter with God in my house. I have been going to church since 4 months now.....but hey, it blows my head, can't swallow the dogmatism been reeled out there.

I am doing what the pastor asked me. 1Thessalonians 5:21 says one should dig deep and find the truth. I dug and found the account myth.

2 Likes

Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by budaatum: 7:16pm On Feb 12
FOLYKAZE:

Buddha wrote many philosophical thoughts which shake the whole Asia. The adherent of buddhism practise the religion till date but we all know that Buddha is fiction, not born with the the help of elephant.

We also know that Mohammed didnt flew up and cut the moon into half even when we have billions of Muslims across the world. That moon cutting story is fiction.

All these ain't different from the account of Jesus and the religion, Christianity.
So, you admit that despite "the messenger [maybe] a hoax", the philosophical thoughts shake the whole world.

Do you realise you are saying that even though the stories about the messenger may be a hoax, the message itself is plausible?

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Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by shadeyinka(m): 8:04pm On Feb 12
FOLYKAZE:


Did I say I was right? Nope. I found some substantial evidence that exposes the bible accounts as myth. It is your duty to present evidence that the account in the bible is reality.
No one is stopping you from Living your life the way you want with your evidence!

1 Like

Re: Historicity Of The Bible And Justification Of Christian Faith by BeLookingIDIOT(m): 8:10pm On Feb 12
budaatum:

So, you admit that despite "the messenger [maybe] a hoax", the philosophical thoughts shake the whole world.

Do you realise you are saying that even though the stories about the messenger may be a hoax, the message itself is plausible?
That something is popular doesn't make it the truth.Do we still have to argue that undecided

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Are Jehovah Witnesses Chrtistians? / The Quran Or The Bible,which Is God's Word? / The Trinity And Identity Of God

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