₦airaland Forum

NNTR:
'Where one would end up', is a difference between hell and the lake of fire (i.e. difference is, one ends up in the belly of the other)

The Israelites have no concept of hell, which incidentally is a Greek concept manufactured based on Greek mythology

Hell aka Hades, has a Greek mythology origin, as I earlier alluded to

Gehenna, is a smouldering incinerating refuse dump site, that Israelites are well conversant with, being a location in Jerusalem, where corpses of criminals, dead animals and all manners of waste, refuse, household rubbish et cetera were thrown to be destroyed

Lake of Fire, on the other hand, essentially, is Gehenna, on steroids, its a final destination and point of no return place, as it were

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

So what happens to someone who goes to hell?

Michael547:
So what happens to someone who goes to hell?

Please try to unlearn, relearn and learn that hell is not a Jewish concept.

From a biblical account and/or Jewish perspective, in the afterlife, the body ends up in Sheol, (i.e. grave) first, whilst the spirit (i.e. life-force aka ruach or breath of God) goes back to the Owner, God, and the soul, incidentally, is transported to a temporary destination, consisting of two places separated by a wide chasm

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Michael547:
Where does the Bible teach that the earth is a training ground.

I reiterate, 'simply because earth is a training ground, as it were', where 'as it were' is self explanatory, as operative words

Let's flip this with you, using your own style.
Kk, where does the Bible teach that you wipe your bum after done having a dump?

Michael547:
Does that mean that God's plan for creating humans was for them to suffer?

Jeremiah 29:11
I will bless you with a future filled with hope
--a future of success, not of suffering.

God's plans are thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
Please try to unlearn, relearn and learn that hell is not a Jewish concept.

From a biblical account and/or Jewish perspective, in the afterlife, the body ends up in Sheol, (i.e. grave) first, whilst the spirit (i.e. life-force aka ruach or breath of God) goes back to the Owner, God, and the soul, incidentally, is transported to a temporary destination, consisting of two places separated by a wide chasm

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

So are you saying that the soul does not die, but goes and live somewhere else?

NNTR:
I reiterate, 'simply because earth is a training ground, as it were', where 'as it were' is self explanatory, as operative words

Let's flip this with you, using your own style. Where does the Bible teach that you wipe your bum after a dump?

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

I don't see how your question relates to the topic.
Where does the Bible say that the purpose of man's creation on earth was for a training purpose, and that he would eventually live somewhere else?

Michael547:
I don't see how your question relates to the topic.
Where does the Bible say that the purpose of man's creation on earth was for a training purpose, and that he would eventually live somewhere else?

You framed the question like biblical literalists would have do.
So if you're looking for where the bible teaches about training grounds, I can as well, ask you where the bible taught you about wiping your bum after using the toilet. You get it now

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Michael547:
So are you saying that the soul does not die, but goes and live somewhere else?

Evidently. The soul will be destroyed in the Lake of Fire, along with death et cetera
Or have you an alternative view?

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
You framed the question like biblical literalists would have do.
So if you're looking for where the bible teaches about training grounds, I can as well, ask you where the bible taught you about wiping your bum after using the toilet. You get it now

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

I can finally conclude that you have no biblical basis for this particular train of thought.
So does the Bible teach that the soul does not die?

NNTR:
Evidently. The soul will be destroyed in the Lake of Fire, along with death et cetera
Or have you an alternative view?

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Ok so what exactly is the soul? Is it me or something different from me that survives death?

Michael547:
■ So explain what you mean by saying that the nations would be shattered.

Well, if they are ruled with an iron fist, ofcourse the are bound to not have many of the freedoms they formerly had about themselves. They will break many.

Kobojunkie:
Well, if they are ruled with an iron fist, ofcourse the are bound to not have many of the freedoms they formerly had about themselves. They will break many.

How does ruling the nations with an iron fist and shattering them means that God would limit their freedom?
Does not the word 'shatter' means to destroy?
So where did you get your explanation of that verse from?

Michael547:
Ok so what exactly is the soul?
Is it me or something different from me that survives death?

You. Your beingness, you, are a soul. Soul is you. You are soul.

What you call death (i.e. the first death) actually is sleep. The second death (i.e. the real, proper and final death) will occur in the Lake of Fire

Michael547:
I can finally conclude that you have no biblical basis for this particular train of thought.

It is increasingly becoming apparent that you're void of any biblical foundation standing

Michael547:
So does the Bible teach that the soul does not die?

Resounding yes, the bible teaches that the soul that sinneth, it shall die

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Resounding yes, the bible teaches that the soul that sinneth, it shall die

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}[/quote]You are saying that the Bible says the soul does not die...and you are saying that the soul that sinneth shall die. Are you not contradicting yourself?
What exactly is the soul?

NNTR:
It is increasingly becoming apparent that you're void of any biblical foundation standing

Resounding yes, the bible teaches that the soul that sinneth, it shall die

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

You are saying that the Bible says the soul does not die...and you are saying that the soul that sinneth shall die. Are you not contradicting yourself?
What exactly is the soul?

NNTR:
You. Your beingness, you, are a soul. Soul is you. You are soul.

What you call death (i.e. the first death) actually is sleep. The second death (i.e. the real, proper and final death) will occur in the Lake of Fire

So when I die how come the soul does not die, since the soul is me? Please read psalm 146:4, and show me where the soul survives death.

Michael547:
Ok so what exactly is the soul?
Is it me or something different from me that survives death?

The soul is you.
It is you, on earth, best or worst, expressing yourself according to what your nature is
When your life-force leaves you (i.e. returns back to God), your body drops dead, while your soul (i.e. you) gets transported to a lounge area, to await judgment that will determine what and where your final destination will be (i.e. which will be either of eternal life or destruction in the Lake of Fire)

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Michael547:
You are saying that the Bible says the soul does not die...and you are saying that the soul that sinneth shall die. Are you not contradicting yourself?

Exactly what and how an inexperienced eyes will say
I am sure you are more cleverer to understand what was typed than to be trying to twist what I typed

Michael547:
What exactly is the soul?

You are. You are soul, you are the soul
You are housed in a body aka flesh (i.e. thats how, you're made in the image of the Godhead)

It is with your spirit man, aka life-force, also aka breath of God or ruach that you (i.e. your soul) affiliate, connects, communicates with the Godhead (i.e. its through your spirit man that you show how much according to the likeness of the Godhead you are turning out to be

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
The soul is you.
It is you, on earth, best or worst, expressing yourself according to what your nature is
When your life-force leaves you (i.e. returns back to God), your body drops dead, while your soul (i.e. you) gets transported o a lounge area, to await judgment that will determine what and where your final destination will be (i.e. which will be either of eternal life or destruction in the Lake of Fire)

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Where is the biblical basis for this your submission?...please read psalm 146:4 and show me where the bible says that the soul also departs.

Michael547:
So when I die how come the soul does not die, since the soul is me?

You'll be in a lounging area to await judgment D-Day

Michael547:
Please read psalm 146:4, and show me where the soul survives death.

Go read the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus for this please

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
You'll be in a lounging area to await judgment D-Day

Go read the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus for this please

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Was the story of the rich man and Lazarus a true life story? If yes when did it happen according to Jesus?
And how does the story teach that the soul resides in a lounging area before judgment?

Michael547:
Was the story of the rich man and Lazarus a true life story? If yes when did it happen according to Jesus?
And how does the story teach that the soul resides in a lounging area before judgment?

What point are weakly trying to make here. Hmm?

Jesus with the parable of the rich man and Lazarus revealed truths about what happens in Sheol after death, what goes on in there, how the place is divided into two sections with a chasm separating the two sides

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}spiritsoulbodyman

NNTR:
What point are weakly trying to make here. Hmm?

Jesus with the parable of the rich man and Lazarus revealed truths about what happens in Sheol after death, what goes on in there, how the place is divided into two sections with a chasm separating the two sides

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}spiritsoulbodyman

1)So it was not something that happened in real life?
2)So the location the rich man and Lazarus found themselves after death, Was it a lounging area or their final destination?

Michael547:
1)So it was not something that happened in real life?

Please tell me what is the reason(s) for telling parables

Michael547:
2)So the location the rich man and Lazarus found themselves after death, Was it a lounging area or their final destination?

It is the former
Final destination is either eternal life or the Lake of Fire

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}spiritsoulbodyman

NNTR:
Please tell me what is the reason(s) for telling parables

It is the former
Final destination is either eternal life or the Lake of Fire

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}spiritsoulbodyman

Please where is the evidence for this your explanation? No where in that parable did Jesus say that either the rich man or Lazarus still had a place to go. So I ask again where is the biblical basis for all these your teachings?

Michael547:
Please where is the evidence for this your explanation? No where in that parable did Jesus say that either the rich man or Lazarus still had a place to go. So I ask again where is the biblical basis for all these your teachings?

Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades [the realm of the dead] were thrown into the lake of fire.
This is the second death, the lake of fire [the eternal separation from God].

Beloved, please give it a rest, as its obvious you're in water too deep, for you to stand in.

You're theologically and biblically poorly equipped to continue with this conversation and discussion

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades [the realm of the dead] were thrown into the lake of fire.
This is the second death, the lake of fire [the eternal separation from God].

Beloved, please give it a rest, as its obvious you're in water too deep, for you to stand in.

You're theologically and biblically poorly equipped to continue with this conversation and discussion

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

1)This is what the Bible has to say about Hades [realm of the dead] in the pics down below. So I guess it is me and wise king Solomon that does not understand the Bible or Jesus parable. Hades is simply a place of inactivity. Jesus parable was not a true life story. It was meant to teach other lessons apart from torment in Hades.
I am very sure that the soul of an inanimate object like death too had to travel to the lake of fire as a final destination according to your explanation.
Did you not see there that the lake of fire symbolically means 'second death' and that it is not a literal location?

2) is eternal life a place or a final destination for Lazarus? Do people travel to a place called eternal life after death...... I guess according to you, Lazarus still had to travel from Abraham's side to a place called eternal life as a final destination.

Your idea that the soul survives death has no biblical basis. Nowhere did Jesus even say that it was Lazarus or the rich man's soul that was either enjoying or suffering. And that it had a final destination to go to.

Michael547:
■ How does ruling the nations with an iron fist and shattering them means that God would limit their freedom? Does not the word 'shatter' means to destroy?
■ So where did you get your explanation of that verse from?

Ruling a Nation with an iron rod/scepter/fist does not imply destruction of the Nation. You can Google that figure of speech for yourself to understand its use at application.

26 “I will give power over the nations to all those who win the victory and continue until the end to do what I want. 
27 They will rule the nations with an iron rod. They will break them to pieces like clay pots.
28 They will have the same power I received from my Father, and I will give them the morning star. 
29 Everyone who hears this should listen to what the Spirit says to the churches. - Revelation 2 vs 26 - 29

Let's not let our imaginations run away with us particularly in a desperate bid to force a previously held delusion on Scripture abeg!

2. Where did I get my explanation from? I am reading this all straight from what is presented in Scripture as is written. Also you are told that those to rule over the nations will do so by the power of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is not a power of destruction.

NNTR:
You. Your beingness, you, are a soul. Soul is you. You are soul.

What you call death (i.e. the first death) actually is sleep.
The second death (i.e. the real, proper and final death) will occur in the Lake of Fire

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Michael547:
1)This is what the Bible has to say about Hades [realm of the dead] in the pics down below. So I guess it is me and wise king Solomon that does not understand the Bible or Jesus parable. Hades is simply a place of inactivity.

The Jews, (i.e. king Solomon, the Israelites) did not know at all nor understand that awareness and consciousness exists in the realm of the dead. It was, Jesus through the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, that He used to reveal these invaluable insights to us

Michael547:
Jesus parable was not a true life story.

'Jesus parable was not a true life story', does not take away nor diminish the truths, that, awareness and consciousness exists in Sheol after one crosses over.

Michael547:
It was meant to teach other lessons apart from torment in Hades.

Please share an inexhaustible list what other lessons apart from torment in Hades, was the parable used to reveal?
(i.e. other than torment, what is the reason(s) for Jesus to tell the rich man and Lazarus parable)

Michael547:
I am very sure that the soul of an inanimate object like death too had to travel to the lake of fire as a final destination according to your explanation.
Did you not see there that the lake of fire symbolically means 'second death' and that it is not a literal location?

Death is real, this I am sure you agree to.
Now death, as with many others things similar, at the end of time, will be done away with and put an end to, using the Lake of Fire, whether its a literal location or not, to achieve just that with

Michael547:
2) is eternal life a place or a final destination for Lazarus?
Do people travel to a place called eternal life after death...... I guess according to you, Lazarus still had to travel from Abraham's side to a place called eternal life as a final destination.

Revelation 20:11-15
11And I saw a great white throne and Him who was seated upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away,
and no place was found for them [for this heaven and earth are passing away].
12And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened.
Then another book was opened, which is the Book of Life;
and the dead were judged according to what they had done as written in the books
[that is, everything done while on earth].
13And the sea gave up the dead who were in it,
and death and Hades (the realm of the dead) surrendered the dead who were in them;
and they were judged and sentenced, every one according to their deeds.
14Then death and Hades [the realm of the dead] were thrown into the lake of fire.
This is the second death, the lake of fire [the eternal separation from God].
15And if anyone’s name was not found written in the Book of Life, he was hurled into the lake of fire.

Matthew 12:36-37
36But I tell you, on the day of judgment people will have to give an accounting for every careless or useless word they speak.
37For by your words [reflecting your spiritual condition] you will be justified and acquitted of the guilt of sin;
and by your words [rejecting Me] you will be condemned and sentenced.”

Lazarus currently is in paradise, formerly known as Abraham's bosom and would not come into judgment and condemnation of the Lake of Fire

Michael547:
Your idea that the soul survives death has no biblical basis

Hebrews 9:27
And just as it is appointed and destined for all men to die once
and after this [comes certain] judgment,

So what you reckon happens to you, (i.e. yourself, happens to your soul) after you've drawn your last breath?

Michael547:
Nowhere did Jesus even say that it was Lazarus or the rich man's soul that was either enjoying or suffering. And that it had a final destination to go to.

Luke 16:19-28
19“Now there was a certain rich man who was habitually dressed in expensive purple and fine linen, and celebrated and lived joyously in splendor every day.
20And a poor man named Lazarus, was laid at his gate, covered with sores.
21He [eagerly] longed to eat the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores.
22Now it happened that the poor man died and his spirit was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom (paradise); and the rich man also died and was buried.
23In Hades (the realm of the dead), being in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom (paradise).
24And he cried out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in severe agony in this flame.’
25But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things [all the comforts and delights], and Lazarus likewise bad things [all the discomforts and distresses]; but now he is comforted here [in paradise], while you are in severe agony.
26And besides all this, between us and you [people] a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to come over from here to you will not be able, and none may cross over from there to us.’
27So the rich man said, ‘Then, father [Abraham], I beg you to send Lazarus to my father’s house--
28for I have five brothers--in order that he may solemnly warn them and witness to them, so that they too will not come to this place of torment.’

So, in summary, what is or are your point(s) please?

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Kobojunkie:
Ruling a Nation with an iron rod/scepter/fist does not imply destruction of the Nation. You can Google that figure of speech for yourself to understand its use at application.
Let's not let our imaginations run away with us particularly in a desperate bid to force a previously held delusion on Scripture abeg!

2. Where did I get my explanation from? I am reading this all straight from what is presented in Scripture as is written. Also you are told that those to rule over the nations will do so by the power of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is not a power of destruction.

So what does verse 27 mean when it says they would be shattered like clay pots? Because I notice you are now avoiding the word 'shatter'?

NNTR:

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The Jews, (i.e. king Solomon, the Israelites) did not know at all nor understand that awareness and consciousness exists in the realm of the dead. It was, Jesus through the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, that He used to reveal these invaluable insights to us

'Jesus parable was not a true life story', does not take away nor diminish the truths, that, awareness and consciousness exists in Sheol after one crosses over.

Please share an inexhaustible list what other lessons apart from torment in Hades, was the parable used to reveal?
(i.e. other than torment, what is the reason(s) for Jesus to tell the rich man and Lazarus parable)

Death is real, this I am sure you agree to.
Now death, as with many others things similar, at the end of time, will be done away with and put an end to, using the Lake of Fire, whether its a literal location or not, to achieve just that with

Revelation 20:11-15
11And I saw a great white throne and Him who was seated upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away,
and no place was found for them [for this heaven and earth are passing away].
12And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened.
Then another book was opened, which is the Book of Life;
and the dead were judged according to what they had done as written in the books
[that is, everything done while on earth].
13And the sea gave up the dead who were in it,
and death and Hades (the realm of the dead) surrendered the dead who were in them;
and they were judged and sentenced, every one according to their deeds.
14Then death and Hades [the realm of the dead] were thrown into the lake of fire.
This is the second death, the lake of fire [the eternal separation from God].
15And if anyone’s name was not found written in the Book of Life, he was hurled into the lake of fire.

Matthew 12:36-37
36But I tell you, on the day of judgment people will have to give an accounting for every careless or useless word they speak.
37For by your words [reflecting your spiritual condition] you will be justified and acquitted of the guilt of sin;
and by your words [rejecting Me] you will be condemned and sentenced.”

Lazarus currently is in paradise, formerly known as Abraham's bosom and would not come into judgment and condemnation of the Lake of Fire

Hebrews 9:27
And just as it is appointed and destined for all men to die once
and after this [comes certain] judgment,

So what you reckon happens to you, (i.e. yourself, happens to your soul) after you've drawn your last breath?

Luke 16:19-28
19“Now there was a certain rich man who was habitually dressed in expensive purple and fine linen, and celebrated and lived joyously in splendor every day.
20And a poor man named Lazarus, was laid at his gate, covered with sores.
21He [eagerly] longed to eat the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores.
22Now it happened that the poor man died and his spirit was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom (paradise); and the rich man also died and was buried.
23In Hades (the realm of the dead), being in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom (paradise).
24And he cried out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in severe agony in this flame.’
25But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things [all the comforts and delights], and Lazarus likewise bad things [all the discomforts and distresses]; but now he is comforted here [in paradise], while you are in severe agony.
26And besides all this, between us and you [people] a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to come over from here to you will not be able, and none may cross over from there to us.’
27So the rich man said, ‘Then, father [Abraham], I beg you to send Lazarus to my father’s house--
28for I have five brothers--in order that he may solemnly warn them and witness to them, so that they too will not come to this place of torment.’

So, in summary, what is or are your point(s) please?

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

When Jesus friend Lazarus the brother to Mary and Martha died, where did his soul go to?

Michael547:
When Jesus friend Lazarus the brother to Mary and Martha died, where did his soul go to

Psalm 30:3
O LORD, You have brought up my soul from Sheol;
You have kept me alive, that I would not go down to the pit.

1. Based on all the knowledge and information, you so far, have read to learn from or had refused to learn, on this thread, hazard a lucky guess, where you think, Lazarus' soul went to

2. Also hazard another guess, why didnt Jesus wait longer than 4 days, before starting to summon Lazarus' soul back into Lazarus' already dead and tombed body?

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}