SIRTee15:


Talking about racism.
Maybe u should explain to us why muhammed sold two black slaves to purchase the freedom of one Arab slave.
I guess the two blacks slaves told Muhammed they loved their chain.

Before we further digress; Acts 13:22 After removing Saul, he made David their king. God testified concerning him: ‘I have found David son of Jesse, a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do.’

Did your christian God have David commit adultery and plan a murder?

TenQ:

Why dodge answering my questions as it was neatly and carefully laid out for you to respond to one by one.

You have just shown David in spite of the special wisdom given to him to be intellectually below average. Could it be that Allah failed in his mission of giving him wisdom? The case is simple to judge sir.

My questions again so that you wouldn't claim ignorance.



Hello my brother!
How you seem to swallow illogicalities still amaze me. I will proove that to you with just some simple questions.

To you, the Tafsir of Al-Tabari is wrong and you know Islam better than him.

1. Qur'an 38:20 And We strengthened his (David's) dominion, and bestowed upon him wisdom and sagacity in judgment

But you are saying that David did not have wisdom and sagasity in judgment because he decided based on hearing only the poor man speak.

Is the claim of Allah wrong in verse 20?

2. Qur'an 38:21 AND YET, has the story of the litigants come within thy ken - (the story of the two) who surmounted the walls of the sanctuary (in which David prayed)

a. Tell me how it is logical for a poor man who want to seek redress from the king force or coherse or pasuaded the rich man to scale the walls of the palace of the king with him.

b. Tell me how the security details of King David didn't apprehend them. Was it a miracle or the two men decided to be extremely quiet!?

3. Qur'an 38:22 As they came upon David, and he shrank back in fear from them, they said: “Fear not!( We are but) two litigants. One of us has wronged the other: so judge thou between us with justice, and deviate not from what is right, and show (both of) us the way to rectitude

Note that this wasn't a monologue as you want us to believe: both men spoke to the king. Is that untrue?

4. Quran 38:24 Said (David) : “He has certainly wronged thee by demanding that thy ewe be added to his ewes! Thus, behold, do many kinsmen wrong one another (all) save those who believe (in God) and do righteous deeds: but how few are they!” And (suddenly) David understood that We had tried him: and so he asked his Sustainer to forgive him his sin, and fell down in prostration, and turned unto Him in repentance

a. Was David in error with his judgment?
If he was in error, how then is the rich man justified for taking the lamb of his poor brother?
b. Can you suggest plausible reasons how the rich man may be justified for taking the lamb of the poor man?

A sound judge is one who makes fair and well-reasoned decisions based on the available evidence and in accordance with the law. However, being perfectly correct is an unattainable standard for any human being, including a judge. It is important to recognize that judges are not infallible and are susceptible to making mistakes just like anyone else.

Do answer Both of them jointly said?

23. “This brother of mine has ninety-nine ewes, and I have one ewe, and he said, ‘Entrust it to me,’ and he pressured me with words.”

(SINCERELY ANSWER)

Anxiously waiting

Explore2xmore:


What are the differences between Mary and Miriam?

Was there a Miriam sister of Aaron and Moses in the old testament ?

Was there a Mary (Maryam) born to Jochebed and Anne that bore Yeshua or Jesus?

Can names repeat within a culture and people without being the same person?

Yes, there was a Mariam sister of Aaron and Moses in the Old Testament.

There was no Mary born to any Jochebed and Anne couples who bore Jesus.

Names repeat themselves but Mariam sister of Aaron is clearly not the same as Mary mother of Jesus.

Explore2xmore:


Before we further digress; Acts 13:22 After removing Saul, he made David their king. God testified concerning him: ‘I have found David son of Jesse, a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do.’

Did your christian God have David commit adultery and plan a murder?

The focus of this thread is the version of the story in the koran. U Muslims already said the biblical narration is false, so why should I discuss it with u.
Will I change your mind if I explain the biblical exegesis to u? No?
My friend, tell us why the version of the Koran is true. That's what this thread is all about.

The Jewish people wrote the history of their kings in a book. 1500 yrs later, Muslims from Arab land claimed they have a better version.

It's like the Ashanti people of Ghana claiming they have the true version of what happened to sango and the Yoruba narration is false.

Explore2xmore:


Before we further digress; Acts 13:22 After removing Saul, he made David their king. God testified concerning him: ‘I have found David son of Jesse, a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do.’

Did your christian God have David commit adultery and plan a murder?

Let me ask u a question? because I notice u ve yarning about private chamber up and down, claiming they dont have physical walls.

How do fresh air enter private inner chambers?

SIRTee15:


The focus of this thread is the version of the story in the koran. U Muslims already said the biblical narration is false, so why should I discuss it with u.
Will I change your mind if I explain the biblical exegesis to u? No?
My friend, tell us why the version of the Koran is true. That's what this thread is all about.

The Jewish people wrote the history of their kings in a book. 1500 yrs later, Muslims from Arab land claimed they have a better version.

It's like the Ashanti people of Ghana claiming they have the true version of what happened to sango and the Yoruba narration is false.

How convenient?
You already see errors in your arguments before sharing with me which makes you sure I wouldn't find them credible? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I see how high you rate your Biblical Christian arguments.

Take a thorough look at yourself and the Christianity you profess. Perhaps you have done this and wish to relieve your regrets by seeking faults elsewhere?

Sadly I hope it eventually does you some good.


Interesting analogy you drive haven fallen into the colonial division of Africa that broke up tribes through the arbitral creation of colonial units and eventually countries.

Why didn't you say Benin republic and Togo where you also have the Yoruba tribe?

Don't you know Joktan who descended from Eber and his relation to the ishmaelites?
The 12 tribes of Ishmael?

Alright I agree with you here but do tell me the parents of Mary the mother of Jesus according to your christian books?

CrystalBliss:


Yes, there was a Mariam sister of Aaron and Moses in the Old Testament.

There was no Mary born to any Jochebed and Anne couples who bore Jesus.

Names repeat themselves but Mariam sister of Aaron is clearly not the same as Mary mother of Jesus.

AntiChristian:


And Jesus was what?

John 2:14-16
When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!

vex finish!

How is this related to the topic?

MightySparrow:



How is this related to the topic?

You mentioned comedy and I showed you a comedy scene!

TenQ:

So you are checking up this thread?

Questions have been asked and you are not helping your Muslim brothers to respond clearly with proves!?

You fall my hands!


Maybe you can help me

It seems that the poor man convinced the rich man to climb the walls quietly with him so that he can report the rich nan to King David!? None of the security agents heard them o!

Just look at how the illogicality sounds!

Nobody needs help here!
The question has been answered but will you accept?
No, you'll either move to another new topic or reject clear evidence. This is typical of the biblical Sadducees and Pharisees who keep parroting the miniscule knowledge they had!

If you won't oblige others in your topics why bring out the topic in the first place?

Even in your Christian circle you're never always correct when it comes to judgement so how come your position on any Islamic theology must be sacrosanct?

Does your perceived holy spirit interpret the books of the disbelievers?

Anyways I know say na person wet get ear fit hear!
Person fit get eyes and lack insight!

Shalom Aliechem!

Explore2xmore:
You see. A check is a question and you are bothered to say if it's going well or not and go on to question if you were reported to me.

Bringing in unasked questions?

Clearly you refuse to see two different Miriams born centuries appart? How many centuries apart are David and Jesus according to your bible? Yet Matthew 1:1 The record of the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Is Jesus literally the immediate Son of David or David an immediate son of Abraham?

David was from the Tribe of Judah and Jesus was also from the Tribe of Judah. Not only that, you can trace the genealogy of Jesus to David: hence Jesus is called son of David.

Levi and Judah are two different tribes thus it was impossible for one to trace the genealogy of Mary (Judah) to Aaron (Levi).

What of the coincidence?
Mariam is Sister of Aaron
Mariam was daughter of Imran

Explore2xmore:


Because you are fixated on a physical fence and do not know how come a chamber is private.

Private to David and restricted from many. Thank you Mr Expert of Philosophy and Logic

Was it an invisible spiritual walls!?
Please read the story again.

Do you think that the story was real or ficticious?

Tell me if it is reasonable that two people quarrelling would scale the fence to obtain justice?

Tell me how a king does not have both bodyguards and security round the palace?

Can you show a single record from anywhere where David built a chamber outside his palace where he worshipped God? Even then don't forget the fence.

Explore2xmore:



A sound judge is one who makes fair and well-reasoned decisions based on the available evidence and in accordance with the law. However, being perfectly correct is an unattainable standard for any human being, including a judge. It is important to recognize that judges are not infallible and are susceptible to making mistakes just like anyone else.

Do answer Both of them jointly said?

23. “This brother of mine has ninety-nine ewes, and I have one ewe, and he said, ‘Entrust it to me,’ and he pressured me with words.”

(SINCERELY ANSWER)

Anxiously waiting

If David was wrong in his judgement of the two men, tell us how the rich man was correct and the poor man wrong?

The question is simple to comprehend isn't it?

Qur'an 38:21
AND YET, has the story of the litigants come within thy ken - [the story of the two] who surmounted the walls of the sanctuary [in which David prayed]
Allah was asking if you Muslims have heard of this story..

Please, I ask you:
From who would you Muslims hear the story if not from Jews and Christians?

See how you rope yourself in with more lies that it isn't the case of Batsheba, Uriah and David!

AntiChristian:


Nobody needs help here!
The question has been answered but will you accept?
No, you'll either move to another new topic or reject clear evidence. This is typical of the biblical Sadducees and Pharisees who keep parroting the miniscule knowledge they had!

If you won't oblige others in your topics why bring out the topic in the first place?

Even in your Christian circle you're never always correct when it comes to judgement so how come your position on any Islamic theology must be sacrosanct?

Does your perceived holy spirit interpret the books of the disbelievers?

Anyways I know say na person wet get ear fit hear!
Person fit get eyes and lack insight!

Shalom Aliechem!

Unfortunately, the responses fall short as they created more problems rather than resove any of the questions.


Again! .
I will prove that to you with just some simple questions.

To you, the Tafsir of Al-Tabari is wrong and you know Islam better than him.

1. Qur'an 38:20 And We strengthened his (David's) dominion, and bestowed upon him wisdom and sagacity in judgment

But you are saying that David did not have wisdom and sagasity in judgment because he decided based on hearing only the poor man speak.
This happened just a verse or two before the report of David's perceived foolishness

Is the claim of Allah wrong in verse 20?

2. Qur'an 38:21 AND YET, has the story of the litigants come within thy ken - (the story of the two) who surmounted the walls of the sanctuary (in which David prayed)

a. Tell me how it is logical for a poor man who want to seek redress from the king force or coherse or pasuaded the rich man to scale the walls of the palace of the king with him.

b. Tell me how the security details of King David didn't apprehend them. Was it a miracle or the two men decided to be extremely quiet!?

3. Qur'an 38:22 As they came upon David, and he shrank back in fear from them, they said: “Fear not!( We are but) two litigants. One of us has wronged the other: so judge thou between us with justice, and deviate not from what is right, and show (both of) us the way to rectitude

Note that this wasn't a monologue as you want us to believe: both men spoke to the king. Is that untrue?

4. Quran 38:24 Said (David) : “He has certainly wronged thee by demanding that thy ewe be added to his ewes! Thus, behold, do many kinsmen wrong one another (all) save those who believe (in God) and do righteous deeds: but how few are they!” And (suddenly) David understood that We had tried him: and so he asked his Sustainer to forgive him his sin, and fell down in prostration, and turned unto Him in repentance

a. Was David in error with his judgment?
If he was in error, how then is the rich man justified for taking the lamb of his poor brother?
b. Can you suggest plausible reasons how the rich man may be justified for taking the lamb of the poor man?

Explore2xmore:



Do you abrogate a family relation between the 12 tribes of Israel?
Anyway there are notes of exact racism in your Biblical literature so much so your Biblical Jesus made difference between the Jews and Gentiles.
Then in circumspect Paul and Christians want to force a Jesus who restricted himself upon the whole world.

In essence your concerns and errors in slandering the one the Biblical God says is after his own heart.

Acts 13:22 After removing Saul, he made David their king. God testified concerning him: ‘I have found David son of Jesse, a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do.’

So God wanted David to commit adultery or fornication with Bathseba then further place her husband or Bethroted to be killed?

Do take your confusing contradictions to your private corners

Unfortunately unlike you Muslims, we don't belive in the Destiny of Allah as Allah has destined David to both be wise and foolish at the same time. David was a man after God's heart and he did everything God asked him to do except that he also did what he was not sent to by God like Adultery and Murder against Uriah the Hittite. I am sure you know that God doesn't tell David EVERYTHING to do like when to sleep with his wives or go to the toilet or when to worship or when to read the scriptures.

Unfortunately, If you check your Quran, you will notice that the verse on Allah bestowing wisdom and sagacity of judgement immediately preceeded his perceived stupidity. This is an apparent contradiction which is inexcusable.

Secondly,
You will note that Allah was telling a story that was already in existence

Qur'an 38:21
AND YET, has the story of the litigants come within thy ken - [the story of the two] who surmounted the walls of the sanctuary [in which David prayed]
Allah was asking if you Muslims have heard of this story..

Please, I ask you:
From who would you Muslims hear the story if not from Jews and Christians?

AntiChristian:


You mentioned comedy and I showed you a comedy scene!

Is the Quran from Allah, Shytan, or from Mohammed?

Or at least two of those mentioned above?

Explore2xmore:
Alright I agree with you here but do tell me the parents of Mary the mother of Jesus according to your christian books?

Mary's father was Joachim according to Christian traditions. Her mother was Anne.

Mariam's father was Amram and her mother was Jochebed according to the Old Testaments.

Explore2xmore:
Alright I agree with you here but do tell me the parents of Mary the mother of Jesus according to your christian books?

CrystalBliss:


Mary's father was Joachim according to Christian traditions. Her mother was Anne.

Mariam's father was Amram and her mother was Jochebed according to the Old Testaments.

I asked the emboldened. What is the ancestry of her parents?

MightySparrow:


Is the Quran from Allah, Shytan, or from Mohammed?

Or at least two of those mentioned above?

You're a comedian now!

Explore2xmore:



I asked the emboldened. What is the ancestry of her parents?

And I have answered the emboldened.

She's descended from Judah.

You are yet refusing to answer .
Do answer Both of them jointly said?

23. “This brother of mine has ninety-nine ewes, and I have one ewe, and he said, ‘Entrust it to me,’ and he pressured me with words.”

What stops you?

TenQ:

Unfortunately unlike you Muslims, we don't belive in the Destiny of Allah as Allah has destined David to both be wise and foolish at the same time. David was a man after God's heart and he did everything God asked him to do except that he also did what he was not sent to by God like Adultery and Murder against Uriah the Hittite. I am sure you know that God doesn't tell David EVERYTHING to do like when to sleep with his wives or go to the toilet or when to worship or when to read the scriptures.

Unfortunately, If you check your Quran, you will notice that the verse on Allah bestowing wisdom and sagacity of judgement immediately preceeded his perceived stupidity. This is an apparent contradiction which is inexcusable.

Secondly,
You will note that Allah was telling a story that was already in existence

Qur'an 38:21
AND YET, has the story of the litigants come within thy ken - [the story of the two] who surmounted the walls of the sanctuary [in which David prayed]
Allah was asking if you Muslims have heard of this story..

Please, I ask you:
From who would you Muslims hear the story if not from Jews and Christians?

Review the ancestry of both Parents of Mary.
Which parent of Mary makes him related to John the Baptist?

CrystalBliss:


And I have answered the emboldened.

She's descended from Judah.

Explore2xmore:
Review the ancestry of both Parents of Mary.
Which parent of Mary makes him related to John the Baptist?

Her mother of course. That does not make her the sister of Aaron but rather his daughter.

TenQ:

Unfortunately unlike you Muslims, we don't belive in the Destiny of Allah as Allah has destined David to both be wise and foolish at the same time.

Explicitly your Bible tells you:
1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1 Corinthians 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written, “He is the one who catches the wise in their craftiness”


Now boldly answer if the litigants jointly said:
Quran 38:23. “This brother of mine has ninety-nine ewes, and I have one ewe, and he said, ‘Entrust it to me,’ and he pressured me with words.”

Your repeated refusal to answer

CrystalBliss:


Her mother of course. That does not make her the sister of Aaron but rather his daughter.

By motherly relations does Jesus have a Levi ancestry?

Here below was what I posted
Unfortunately unlike you Muslims, we don't belive in the Destiny of Allah as Allah has destined David to both be wise and foolish at the same time. David was a man after God's heart and he did everything God asked him to do except that he also did what he was not sent to by God like Adultery and Murder against Uriah the Hittite. I am sure you know that God doesn't tell David EVERYTHING to do like when to sleep with his wives or go to the toilet or when to worship or when to read the scriptures.

Unfortunately, If you check your Quran, you will notice that the verse on Allah bestowing wisdom and sagacity of judgement immediately preceeded his perceived stupidity. This is an apparent contradiction which is inexcusable.

Secondly,
You will note that Allah was telling a story that was already in existence

Qur'an 38:21
AND YET, has the story of the litigants come within thy ken - [the story of the two] who surmounted the walls of the sanctuary [in which David prayed]
Allah was asking if you Muslims have heard of this story..

Please, I ask you:
From who would you Muslims hear the story if not from Jews and Christians?
See your response below
Is there any correlation?

Explore2xmore:
You are yet refusing to answer .
Do answer Both of them jointly said?

23. “This brother of mine has ninety-nine ewes, and I have one ewe, and he said, ‘Entrust it to me,’ and he pressured me with words.”

What stops you?

I challenge you to bring out the place where you asked me this question and I refused to answer it! I am not like you Muslims who evade questions because of fear of exposure.

First show me that only one person of the two spoke to David
Qur'an 38:22 As they came upon David, and he shrank back in fear from them, they said: “Fear not!( We are but) two litigants. One of us has wronged the other: so judge thou between us with justice, and deviate not from what is right, and show (both of) us the way to rectitude



Of course simple English tells us that one person spoke this sentence
“This brother of mine has ninety-nine ewes, and I have one ewe, and he said, ‘Entrust it to me,’ and he pressured me with words.”


The problem now is that you claim that David erred in judging the rich man because he did not hear his own side of the story.

1. It didn't dawn on you that as you Muslims usually claim that "the Qur'an is not a storybook" that Allah or is it Mohammed summarised the story. If not, can you tell us what finally happened to the ewe in question?

Is it that David just dismissed them after he repented to Allah for his rashness in judgment?
2. Till now, you have not explained how the rich man is vindicated in this matter. Please justify how the poor man was wrong and the rich man is right in this case?


Waiting endlessly as usual with response which would not correlate with the questions.


By the way,
How did the poor man convince the rich man to climb the fence with him to seek redress with the king

Explore2xmore:


By motherly relations does Jesus have a Levi ancestry?

Both Arabs and Jews trace lineages from the father blood line.

Explore2xmore:


Explicitly your Bible tells you:
1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1 Corinthians 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written, “He is the one who catches the wise in their craftiness”


Now boldly answer if the litigants jointly said:
Quran 38:23. “This brother of mine has ninety-nine ewes, and I have one ewe, and he said, ‘Entrust it to me,’ and he pressured me with words.”

Your repeated refusal to answer

I wonder if it is jot English comprehension that is disturbing you in your quest to make a single point of value interpret 1 Corinthians 1:20 and 1 Corinthians 3:19


I have done justice to your question but again

Of course simple English tells us that one person spoke this sentence
“This brother of mine has ninety-nine ewes, and I have one ewe, and he said, ‘Entrust it to me,’ and he pressured me with words.”


It didn't dawn on you that as you Muslims usually claim that "the Qur'an is not a storybook" that Allah or is it Mohammed summarised the story . If not, can you tell us what finally happened to the ewe in question?

Is this an exact replica of what happened between the litigant and David?

If it is,
1. Did David now asked the rich man to tell his own side of the story after his repentance?
2. What then was the aftermath of the litigation?
3. What happened to the Ewe in question: did David divide it into two?

Above for your response

By the way,
How did the poor man convince the rich man to climb the fence with him to seek redress with the king

Explore2xmore:


How convenient?
You already see errors in your arguments before sharing with me which makes you sure I wouldn't find them credible? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I see how high you rate your Biblical Christian arguments.

Take a thorough look at yourself and the Christianity you profess. Perhaps you have done this and wish to relieve your regrets by seeking faults elsewhere?

Sadly I hope it eventually does you some good.

My friend leave all this whataboutism and give us dawah. We here to learn about Islam and its tales by moonlight, not your lecture on what u know nothing about.

If u want us to talk about the biblical version of David, open another thread. But here we want to know about Islam and to test it's book.

I just don't understand all these modern Muslims, u ask them a question about Koran, they quickly run to the bible.
Can't Koran be defended standing alone, must u seek validation from another religion b4 the Koran makes sense.

Explain to us how a poor man convinced a rich man to climb wall so that the poor man can report the rich man to the king.

Give a logical explanation to the forgiveness asked by dawood in the story.

You said the 2 men were angels and u claim they disappeared, back this up with evidence from your koran. Show me anything from your Koran that depicts them as supernatural beings.
If they have powers, why are they climbing walls like thieves.

Is this too hard to ask for of the koran? Why are u dragging the bible into your mess created by your own book?


I've debated you and other Muslims on this platform multiple times, u will never see me ducking to the Koran to defend the bible. Not once.
It makes no sense seeking validation for your faith in another religion. It's an indirect way of saying 'my religion makes no sense, so I must also discredit yours so that both are inside potopoto- mud'

My friend, if islam no make sense, try another religion. I'm very much happy to welcome u to the Christian fold. if u want to give Jesus Christ a chance, trust me u will never regret it.

Explore2xmore:


Interesting analogy you drive haven fallen into the colonial division of Africa that broke up tribes through the arbitral creation of colonial units and eventually countries.

Why didn't you say Benin republic and Togo where you also have the Yoruba tribe?

Don't you know Joktan who descended from Eber and his relation to the ishmaelites?
The 12 tribes of Ishmael?

Are u ok? how Ashanti take relates to Yoruba that they will be ones correcting our history.
And what has the white man got to do with this? U well so? Wetin concern colonial division of Africa with our native ancient history, is it the white man that wrote it? My guy u not making sense here.

My example is same everywhere. A french man cannot be correcting the history of king Henry VIII and his 7 wives, neither can an English man be telling us what actually happened to queen Marie Antoinette.

If I want to learn about muhamed, I will check Arab sources. I wont travel to Israel to start researching Muhammed in the Talmud. Do u get it now?

Besides, If at all we should even accept the Abrahamic genealogy of Arabs, they got cut off from chain link 1000yrs b4 the story of David and bathsheba happened. Arabs are in no position to be telling us the history of the Jews.
It makes no sense my friend and you know it. If not for religion and blind faith, u would not even consider it.

AntiChristian:


You're a comedian now!

But Before it was abrogated, Shaitans words were part of the Qur'an. The only problem is that you Muslims don't know if he has many more verses undetected in the Qur'an

TenQ:

But Before it was abrogated, Shaitans words were part of the Qur'an. The only problem is that you Muslims don't know if he has many more verses undetected in the Qur'an

What kind anuofia kpotokpoto talk be this?

AntiChristian:


What kind anuofia kpotokpoto talk be this?

You never hear of the three daughters of Allah whose intercession is desired.
It was abrogated by Mohammed himself!

Tell me you're hearing of this for the first time!?