₦airaland Forum

salbis:
Removing government influence, this man would have been an average businessman.

Congratulations to him, though.

Modified: I don't really know why some people are quick to align somebody with certain region or religion when your point doesn't reflect theirs. I'm a full blooded AREWA and it will ever remain as such.
Hold your opinions to yourselves!

Tzar:
In my line of work, if you have several failed deadlines, you have failed.
Dangote refinery has at least 2 major failed deadlines, therefore I personally deem it as failed.

Princewill1:
Just look at this one.

Is Dangota clean?

Haven't you heard about the ongoing Forex scandal where Dangota, Emefiele others looted huge funds belonging to the country.

deenee:
In your line of work. What is your kine of work if I may ask.

The deadline was shifted three times.

First when he had to recaliberate and increase the proposed daily production capacity to 650k building scale into the project for the benefit of Nigerians

Second was due to Covid 19 restrictions, an externality that nobody anticipated and more importantly nobody foresaw the impact of especially post the lock down.

Third was due to the failure of the apex bank deliver much needed fx for importation of critical PPE.

I am happy that you say its your personal opinion

Please ensure you don't use any of the products from the "failed refinery " when these products hit the market.

God bless Nigeria
God bless Dangote

deenee:
Nobody looted funds. Stop saying what yiu don't know

@Seun please can we use your esteemed platform to have training sessions for users so they are abreast with events in the country?

Thank you.

Tzar:
I’m sorry, I can’t say my line of work. And I don’t live in Nigeria to be bothered about using the products from the ‘IMO’ failed refinery.
The truth is that Dangote has pushed the narrative out that if ever his product will hypothetically hit the Nigerian market, he will still not sell it lower that the landing cost of imported products. This implies that he will rather be a profiteer than a patriot. Giving back is not in the dictionary of Nigerians, especially Alh Dangote IMO.







Sorry Sir 007. Secret spy at night, nairalander during the day. He whose line of work can't be mentioned in public!

Please stay in your abroad and leave us to worry about our issues in Nigeria.

He should sell below the cost of production at his refinery so his business will pack up in no time.

If you understand business very well, you will understand that giving back is not done at the cost of running the business which is a cash cow and main source of revenue.

Rather it's done from retained profit ploughed into several non for profit initiatives for the be efir of all and Dangote without doubt has one of the largest and most active foundation in Nigeria.

Why don't you tell Apple and Tesla to sell their products at below cost price as a act of patriotism?

Princewill1:
What is Forex Round Tripping that Dangote was accused of?

Before Tinubu floating of the Naira, CBN under the previous administration had a fixed rate of dollar to naira at about N450 per dollar. While at the parallel market then dollar was N750 per dollar. Remember the dollar at CBN was gotten mainly from the sale of Nigeria's crude oil. Dangote will buy at the CBN at the rate of N420 with the guise that he wants to use for importation of raw material but rather he will move it to his bank accounts abroad, also he resales at the parallel market (Bureu de change) at the then rate of N750 thereby making N330 per dollar instantly. According to the investigators, he did this up to the tune of $3.4billions with the help and preferencial allocations of Emefiele in last 8yrs. I figured out that it's an illiterate that quoted me, that's why I took time to break it down for you.

Now the extra N330+ upto the tune of billions that Dangote made from the forex around tripping, what should it be called?

Is it looting of our Commonwealth at the CBN with tricks or what is it actually?

Look if you are dvmb and useless don't quote me.

deenee:
P.S I am not dumb and definitely not useless and I will quote you.

All the spurious allegations here. Where is your source.

You think business abroad round trip like we don in Nigeria?

See let me explain to you, the moment transactions are cross border, the KYC, AML and CFT requirements become tougher and stiffer.

That's why it's literally impossible for Nigerian to have access to cross border accounts without very tight kyc requirements and any hint of money laundering, the accounts are shut down by the banks otherwise they are dine or could even loose their license.

You explanation is very watery.

First Dangote cannot have unilateral access to USD from the CBN without supporting documents for same.

Secondly the dollars are not paid into his account( local or foreign ) but rather into the account of the respective beneficiaries in renowned bwnkd abroad.

Do you really think the banks will risk their license because Dangote wants to round trip?

Common sense isnt very common afterall

LeonSaab:
lol.....I'm sorry but it's like you don't watch the News but all banks are corrupt....they know the worst that will happen is they get a fine and everyone will move on........when was the last time you heard a bank loose it's license because of money laundering? The Entire UK economy is staying afloat because of laundered money and you think the next thing on their mind will be to start shutting down banks? 🤣🤣🤣

deenee:
Two different analogies and I work in the finance sector so i know what I am saying

deenee:
P.S I am not dumb and definitely not useless and I will quote you.

All the spurious allegations here. Where is your source.

You think business abroad round trip like we don in Nigeria?

See let me explain to you, the moment transactions are cross border, the KYC, AML and CFT requirements become tougher and stiffer.

That's why it's literally impossible for Nigerian to have access to cross border accounts without very tight kyc requirements and any hint of money laundering, the accounts are shut down by the banks otherwise they are dine or could even loose their license.

You explanation is very watery.

First Dangote cannot have unilateral access to USD from the CBN without supporting documents for same.

Secondly the dollars are not paid into his account( local or foreign ) but rather into the account of the respective beneficiaries in renowned bwnkd abroad.

Do you really think the banks will risk their license because Dangote wants to round trip?

Common sense isnt very common afterall

deenee:
Two different analogies and I work in the finance sector so i know what I am saying

LeonSaab:
okay then tell me the last time a bank anywhere in the world lost its license due to money laundering?

Princewill1:
YOU WANTED SOURCE, HERE IS IT:

[b]"Sources have revealed that the massive fraud allegedly committed during the tenure of the former CBN governor, Emefiele, within many GBEs is now being uncovered by the Obazee-led Committee, and these revelations are expected to shock the nation.

The Special Investigator has traced approximately N8 trillion of looted funds from the CBN and GBEs to various bank accounts held by individuals and private businesses.

These findings are part of the preliminary report submitted by the Special Investigator to President Tinubu. An estimated N400 trillion looted from the CBN is anticipated to be recovered by Obazee’s investigative team.

The alleged illicit forex dealings by the Dangote Group were purportedly facilitated with the complicity of the Central Bank of Nigeria under the former governor, Godwin Emefiele, and certain major commercial banks in the country. These entities aided the Dangote Group in transferring $3.4 billion in proceeds from their illegal forex dealings out of the country to foreign personal accounts over the past decade.

The investigation into the Dangote Group was initiated following a petition received by the panel from concerned Nigerian and social justice advocate, Ahmed Fahad. Fahad had previously petitioned President Tinubu in August 2023, accusing the Dangote Group of gross financial misconduct and illegality, specifically, the abuse of CBN forex guidelines over the past decade.

The activist’s petition highlighted the diversion of $3.4 billion from Nigeria’s national treasury at rates well below the parallel exchange rate, a violation of CBN guidelines and a significant threat to the nation’s economic stability. The illegal transfers were made through Form A, instead of the legal route through Form M, further compounding the financial misconduct.

The implicated banks were accused of defying CBN instructions by providing millions of dollars to the Dangote Group at CBN rates, rather than sourcing funds from the parallel or interbank market."[/b]

https://www.newdawnngr.com/2023/10/26/special-investigator-dangote-group-fingered-in-3-4b-cbn-forex-fraud/

https://punchng.com/forex-scandal-efcc-combs-dangote-hq-for-documents-probes-51-firms/

https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/nigerias-anti-graft-body-visits-dangote-group-forex-probe-sources-2024-01-04/

https://medium.com/@odilimenwegbara/the-shocking-forex-fraud-taking-place-at-cbn-c2f607676ee2

https://www.thecable.ng/updated-efcc-operatives-probe-52-companies-over-fx-transactions-with-cbn/amp

deenee:
Sir. They won't seize your license but the fines can literally cripple the business

Google and reconfirm

Tzar:
FYI, Dangote's style of making profit is dubious and crooked. It is called profiteering. Why will he sell at landing cost of imported fuel, when he is getting crude easily from govt, and the shipping cost which is almost 50% of landing cost is no longer factored in?
Dangote and his crooked friends in govt dubiously give him an unfair advantage by allowing unfair tax holidays , corrupt access to FOREX, monopolies, control of supply chain, unfair product pricing and insider information.
Yet he still OVERPRICES his products. Shockingly people like you with zero knowledge in BUSINESS ETHICS think that is how business should be done? No wonder Nigeria is the way it is. When people like you excuse bad business practices and support corporate corruption.

Sir you are blowing grammar.

Apparently you don't understand how the sector works.

Is govt giving crude for free?

Crude will be sold to him at the prevailing price in the international market because Nigeria is a member of OPEC and bound by the rules of OPEC a d th3 refinery is bould i. The LFTZ

Secondly the crude from nigeria sold at international price cannot the delivered in bulk to the refinery so its delivered in batches hence the reason why the initial 6million barrels he bought from NNPCL joint venture is taking like 3-5 months to deliver. This staggered delivery is additional logistics and cost because literally, its the same amount you will spend to deliver 1m litres ot even 50m litres

On the contrary if he had bought from an international seller, he would be able to get instant delivery of up to 50 million litres at once reducing the cost of logistics.

Are you people going to blame him for inefficiencies in govt and NNPCL's ability to have a larger/bigger inland waterways vessel and barge for crude delivery?

Sunk cost in the oil and gas sector is fixed especially in logistics hence the best way to optimise is to build scale into your operations.

More reason Dangote built the 650k per day production capacity because its the same amount of opex you will spend running a 100k or 650k refinery.

So basically he has bought crude from NNPCL out of patriotism instead of buying from IOCs that will delivery on time. Yet y'all want him to build the same inefficiencies into his business?

My prayers for is God give yiu the strength to build your own refinery wherever you are located.

I also pray that you deem the project a failure once the completion date is shifted more than twice even if the delay is not entirely your fault.

I also pray that you sell your end products for free and see how long you will last in business.

Will the price of PMO and other products reduce with the refinery operations. The answer is yes but please dont expect that fuel will go down to 200 naira per litre.

God bless Nigeria

Tzar:
So the logistics for the transportation of crude over the Atlantic (across continents) is equal to ferrying crude from the Niger Delta to Lagos? That is why Dangote should sell at prevailing international price?

Don’t worry your morality lacking arguments as a Nigerian is understandable. I understand your argument that lacks empathy for the plight of Nigerians, given the huge biased and induced opportunities people like Dangote have enjoyed.
If Abacha, Babangida, Ibori, Diezani & many other high profile corrupt people can get supporters, I am not surprised at your support for bad behavior. Who is a selfless philanthropist in Nigeria? I understand you.

As usual yiu have left the cruz of the matter.

Please sit down and do the maths with anyone you know that understand the oli and gas business

So you will stop mixing apples and oranges

God bless you

Tzar:
Please educate me. Are you saying shipping crude across continents is the same cost as shipping crude from Niger Delta to Lagos?

deenee:
SIR TZAR.

Let me explain again

1 whether the crude is from Niger Delta or International the cost is same and it is priced at the prevailing international rate by OPEC. Unless its stolen crude which will be likely sold below market price and off the radar

2 Most international shipments are in large vessels sometimes up to 60m litres because the cost of shipping 1m litres and 50m litres is literally the same. Your diesel or fuel cost won't go down because you are the only passenger in your car. Whether you are the only one or you carry the full number of passengers the cost of fuel and usage remains the same.

Now picture this international tanker delivering 50m litres in on tranche and small barge delivering 6 million litres in tranches of 1m litres per trip who do you this will cost more to deliver?

If you read my post well, you will see that I have used resounding and effective words like operational efficiency, logistics and planning etc.

It isnt much about the location or distance of delivery but the inefficiencies built into the process. Which will inadvertently increase cost.

Also most of the landing cost that forms circa 40-50% of PMS can be eliminated if only the port authorities agree to automate their their processes but alas they won't because that will literally block all the leakages and ways to siphon cash so they are gery contented with the brick and mortar, manual way of doing themselves which literally creates bottlenecks and extra cost for the ender users in the value chain.

I hope you are very clear now and see why you shouldn't mix apples and oranges!

Tzar:
1. The only part I agree with you is that crude oil price per barrel sold to Dangote is same & at the recommended international price.
2. I totally disagree with you that the cost of transporting products or crude from Europe & Asia to Lagos is the same as transporting products from Niger Delta to Lagos. I cannot even believe you tried to argue that. Vessels have sizes & consume fuel differently. If you want to transport 60m litres products, you use large vessels that will consume fuel according to that capacity. If you want to transport 1m litres you will use a smaller vessel that consumes less fuel & the distance that will increase consumption is comparable small.
Asia/Europe to Lagos is about 9500NM
Niger Delta to Lagos is about 400NM

Even if you use a 60m litres vessel to carry just 1m litres product, the price for transportation CANNOT be the same!

What about the cost of human capital and other ad hoc logistics expenses and other carrying cost that stay same irrespective of the of amount of load in freight?

You are also silent on the fact that such cost has been replicated 6 times just to transport a fraction of crude.

Same way most govt agencies have built bureaucracy into that processes and a job that one person can don efficiently will be distributed across 7-8 people, yet very ineffective and inefficient

Tzar:
Oga, I worked in freight and logistics management for 12years before my current line of work. That is not how it works. Distance / fuel consumption determines 40-50% of running logistics cost. You cannot compare the transportation cost of 9500NM to 400NM by any yardstick. You are talking about local Nigerian bureacracy, do you even realize the bottlenecks faced by cargo ships in international and trans-national.
waters?
How can you even attempt to equate cost for a distance that is 23times or 2300% longer? Do you even understand what you are saying?

deenee:
Ok sir. I rest my case.

But what is yiur line of work now.

The one you refused to tell us?

The refinery will work irrespective

Tzar:
I currently work in the aviation and aerospace industry.

I have been in this industry for over 10years.