₦airaland Forum

This call for parliamentary system of government is spreading even from unexpected quarters.

Shikena:
You are right, but this one is a real issue.

Read our history. If you read the accounts of things that happened pre independence and read the accounts of things that happened post independence in the 1st republic, you will be shocked……It’s like you are in 2024 and you never went back in time! Please try to find old newspapers from the 50s, 60s and 70s, if you remove the dates you will think you are reading stories from 2023. We can’t run away from ourselves…that the real issue.

The practicality of your suggestion is the issue.

The representatives of the most aggrieved parts of Nigeria are all in Abuja, and always been in Abuja, and have never made a move in that direction. The governors of the most aggrieved parts of Nigeria have never made a move in that direction.
The state house of assembly in those parts have never made such move.

Nawa4nl:
Let's just break nija, so we can all go our respective ways

I have read our history. Be specific about what you want me to re-read.

casualobserver:
Read our history. If you read the accounts of things that happened pre independence and read the accounts of things that happened post independence in the 1st republic, you will be shocked……It’s like you are in 2024 and you never went back in time! Please try to find old newspapers from the 50s, 60s and 70s, if you remove the dates you will think you are reading stories from 2023. We can’t run away from ourselves…that the real issue.

Confedral or nothing...

Shikena:
I have read our history. Be specific about what you want me to re-read.

Stories of politics from any of those eras. It’s always the same thing.

The psyche of the Nigerian can be seen whenever you are in traffic. We always try to change lanes multiple times just to advance 1 car length only to find that the lane you were on is moving “faster” and so another attempt to change lanes, rinse repeat. In the end it does not really advance the cause as in the process we have a fender bender and make the traffic worse for everybody. The Nigerian must always do something because we are more concerned with appearing to do something for doing sake but we don’t face the real issues which in the case of the man in traffic is simply you are in traffic and if everyone is patient, we’ll all get out of it faster but there are always some impatient people that end up making the traffic worse aka longer for everybody. These are the change the system people!

SoNature:
We should be talking about resource control by states and state policing. Those are critical at this point, not changing the system of government.

relax your mind … Tinubu is at work before you know it’s you will discover Tinubu has return the country back to regional government… every state and region needs police and weapon first before you step on toes … Igbo must get Igbo nation of the 5 state by force by fire

The North is looking for every means to retain power, if PBAT is not vigilant a military coup by a northerner might happen soon. PBAT is in a trap

We have been talking about the huge cost of our current over-bloated presidential system for decades. This is not a fire brigade suggestion by Nigerians.

Here is an example from a conversation that may help your understand why this is an issue (one of our numerous issues):

"The method by which Nigeria allocates revenue between the central government and states impedes the development of a truly federal polity. The 1963 constitution granted regional governments control over natural and human resources found within their territories as well as broad powers to use these resources to fast-track local development. Consequently, big strides were made in areas such as education and agriculture."

casualobserver:
Stories of politics from any of those eras. It’s always the same thing.

The psyche of the Nigerian can be seen whenever you are in traffic. We always try to change lanes multiple times to secure 1 car gap that doesn’t really advance their cause in the process we have a fender bender and make the traffic worse for everybody. The Nigerian must always do something because we are more concerned with appearing to do something for doing sake but we don’t face the real issues which in the case of the man in traffic is simply you are in traffic and if everyone is patient, we’ll all get out of it faster but there are always some impatient people that end up making the traffic worse aka longer for everybody. These are the change the system people!

Shikena:
We have been talking about the huge cost of our current presidential system for decades. This is not a fire brigade suggestion by Nigerians.

Here is an example from a conversation that may help your understand why this is an issue (one of our numerous issues):

"The method by which Nigeria allocates revenue between the central government and states impedes the development of a truly federal polity. The 1963 constitution granted regional governments control over natural and human resources found within their territories as well as broad powers to use these resources to fast-track local development. Consequently, big strides were made in areas such as education and agriculture."

My friend the cost of governance is not the problem, the problem is why states are not generating the revenue corresponding to their potential? If states were generating the revenue corresponding to all the natural resources we hear about, a portion of that would go to the center and cost of governance would not be an issue. Secondly, is a parliamentary system going to stop the parliamentarians from buying exotic imported jeeps and all the costs of office they currently enjoy? Are they not still going to be in Abuja? What happens to state governments?

Like I said the cost of government is not the problem, the problem is our revenue is too low for our GDP.

Don’t get me wrong I am neither and advocate for parliamentary system or Presidential system. I just believe insincere actors in either system will fail and sincere actors in either system will work. My issue is the actors are insincere so it matters not what system we practice.

Lastly you are confusing parliamentary system with resource control. Parliamentary system has nothing to do with resource control. You can achieve true federalism and resource control in a presidential system. We don’t need a parliamentary system to revert the issue of resources to the same state it was under regional government, after all it is under this same presidential system that derivation was increased


Have we implemented the Federal presidential system the way it is supposed to be implemented? Does Osun control its mines, does Enugu control its coal, does Zamfara control its gold? Does the money from Dangote cement go to Kogi or Ogun? If I allow you to mine the resources of my state who gets the money, state or federal, therefore what is the incentive for me as a state to allow my resources to be tapped? These are the real issues and it has nothing to do with presidential or parliamentary system. If you want the Zamfara state governor for example to turn his state into a behive of mining and exploration simple amend the current derivation laws to 50% which can be done under current the presidential system.

nony43:
It been months I have seen people prouding themselves as Batist. Abi Jagabandist anyone them call themselves. Tinubu met $ at 750 now it it 1600 in just 9 months my prayer be say BAT must complete him 8 years in good health i won check how much $ go be in 7 years time under BAT.

You don't need to check how much , just use your calculator.....

Dollar 9 months ago ....#750
Dollar in 9 months. ......#1530

Difference of #1530 - #750...= #780

So if Dollar doubles in every 9 months under Tinubu....

Then in 7 years.....it will be ....
2023....$750
2024....#1530
2025.....$2280
2026....$3030

If by 2026, if Dollar is equal to $3030.....
Agbadorians and Batists must have died of hunger and regrets....
While the children of Tinubu and his Sons and daughters in-laws will be cruising in Federal offices and eating fat, preparing for his second term ....lols

SoNature:
We should be talking about resource control by states and state policing. Those are critical at this point, not changing the system of government.

which resource are states supposed to control that they dont control?

Shikena:
We have been talking about the huge cost of our current over-bloated presidential system for decades. This is not a fire brigade suggestion by Nigerians.

Here is an example from a conversation that may help your understand why this is an issue (one of our numerous issues):

"The method by which Nigeria allocates revenue between the central government and states impedes the development of a truly federal polity. The 1963 constitution granted regional governments control over natural and human resources found within their territories as well as broad powers to use these resources to fast-track local development. Consequently, big strides were made in areas such as education and agriculture."

what makes the presidential system overbloated that does not make the parliamentary system overbloated?

how does the method of revenue allocation between the central and state governments impede the development of a truly federal polity?

if you say "The 1963 constitution granted regional governments control over natural and human resources found within their territories", are you saying that states dont have control over the human resources found within their territories under the presidential system?

which powers do states not have to develop their territories whether it be in education or in agriculture?

sterlingD:
This call for parliamentary system of government is spreading even from unexpected quarters.

a very good issue to use to distract many foolish Nigerians from what is important...good governance, accountability, patriotism and good leadership

casualobserver:
Nigerians like running around in circles avoiding the real issues. When we had parliamentary system we failed, we tried presidential, it has failed…what is the common denominator…..Nigerians! Every time we have an election they want to amen the electoral act, we have one of the best in the world but they still want to amend, what is the common denominator….Nigerians. We have all sorts of laws but the country does not work, what is the common denominator……Nigerians! We had regional government, the same people who abolished it are the ones calling to regional government 60 yrs later. We had secession clause, the same people that opposed it are the ones calling for referendum.

We can a,mend laws and systems all we like but we can’trun away from ourselves. When we are ready to deal with our real issues…..our Nigerian traits, our Pysche, they should let us know.

100% well said.

Cost of governance is not the problem, it is one of the major issues behind the problem.

Your points are accurate about the 'other' issues, where I disagree is with your opinion on the system of government. It appears that you have not taken a deeper look at how the parliamentary system differs from the presidential system and how this relates to our situation and peculiarities in Nigeria. Our system is driven by "enablers", and the presidential system or in our case (The Abuja System) is a destructive enabler. The specific individual issues are mere offshoots of these enablers.

For example, our GDP is not getting addressed because the enabler has a bottomline which is currently being met! All it takes is for Abuja to have enough funds to go round the stakeholders and nothing else matters. If the cake at the center shifts away from Abuja, that's a fatal blow on that specific enabler.

That's my point. Take a deeper look at it.

casualobserver:
My friend the cost of governance is not the problem, the problem is why states are not generating the revenue corresponding to their potential? If states were generating the revenue corresponding to all the natural resources we hear about, a portion of that would go to the center and cost of governance would not be an issue. Secondly, is a parliamentary system going to stop the parliamentarians from buying exotic imported jeeps and all the costs of office they currently enjoy? Are they not still going to be in Abuja? What happens to state governments?

Like I said the cost of government is not the problem, the problem is our revenue is too low for our GDP.

Don’t get me wrong I am neither and advocate for parliamentary system or Presidential system. I just believe insincere actors in either system will fail and sincere actors in either system will work. My issue is the actors are insincere so it matters not what system we practice.

Lastly you are confusing parliamentary system with resource control. Parliamentary system has nothing to do with resource control. You can achieve true federation and resource control in a presidential system.

Na scam oooooo


What we need is regional government


Reject this with all your passion

This is not the restructure we need

Shikena:
Cost of government is not the problem, it is one of the major issues behind the problem.

Your points are accurate about the 'other' issues, where I disagree is with your opinion on the system of government. It appears that you have not taken a deeper look at how the parliamentary system differs from the presidential system and how this relates to our situation and peculiarities in Nigeria. Our system is driven by "enablers", and the presidential system or in our case (The Abuja System) is a destructive enabler. The specific individual issues are mere offshoots of these enablers.

For example, our GDP is not getting addressed because the enabler has a bottomline which is currently being met! All it takes is for Abuja to have enough funds to go round the stakeholders and nothing else matters. If the center shifts away from Abuja, that's a fatal blow on that specific enabler.

That's my point. Take a deeper look at it.

My friend cost of governance is not the problem, a country like Nigeria with a GDP of $500b, Should generate revenue of $100b as a minimum. How much do we generate? Our 2024 budget was N27T based on a rate of 800:1 so approx $35b. And we are borrowing to fund it because the revenue is not enough. That is where the problem is, why is it that a country with a GDP has to borrow to fund a pittance of a budget of a mere $35b? Let us say cost of governance is $3b ( this is a guess). It only seems big because our budget is $35b. If our budget was $60b, it wouldn’t matter. Furthermore there is a minimum level of government spending, there is only so much you can cut. In my hypothetical $3b cost of govt (BTW I doubt it is up to this and don’t forget we are talking about the cost of the presidential system and parliament) not the civil service etc, the most you will save with all the cost cutting in the world if you are lucky is $500m! So the problem is not spending but revenue.

Nice quick reads on this interesting debate (for and against) so comments/contributions can be a bit above 101 level questions :

Parliamentary systems do better economically than presidential ones
https://theconversation.com/parliamentary-systems-do-better-economically-than-presidential-ones-111468

Are Parliamentary Systems Better?
https://www.bu.edu/sthacker/files/2012/01/Are-Parliamentary-Systems-Better.pdf

THE PARLIAMENTARY SYSTEM VERSUS THE PRESIDENTIAL SYSTEM
https://borgenproject.org/parliamentary-system-versus-presidential-system/

Presidential System
https://www.annenbergclassroom.org/glossary_term/presidential-system/

Parliament Over Presidents
https://www.the-american-interest.com/2019/10/18/parliament-over-presidents/

Why are we not generating enough?

How did we perform with GDP between 1960 and 1966? You should have this answer since you have read our history extensively

*I believe Nigeria can do with savings of $500m today, don't you think so?

casualobserver:
My friend cost of governance is not the problem, a country like Nigeria with a GDP of $500b, Should generate revenue of $100b as a minimum. How much do we generate? Our 2024 budget was N27T based on a rate of 800:1 so approx $35b. And we are borrowing to fund it because the revenue is not enough. That is where the problem is, why is it that a country with a GDP has to borrow to fund a pittance of a budget of a mere $35b? Let us say cost of governance is $3b ( this is a guess). It only seems big because our budget is $35b. If our budget was $60b, it wouldn’t matter. Furthermore there is a minimum level of government spending, there is only so much you can cut. In my hypothetical $3b cost of govt (BTW I doubt it is up to this and don’t forget we are talking about the cost of the presidential system and parliament) not the civil service etc, the most you will save with all the cost cutting in the world if you are lucky is $500m! So the problem is not spending but revenue.

Shikena:
Why are we not generating enough?

How did we perform with GDP between 1960 and 1966? You should have this answer since you have read our history extensively

Like I said type of government is different from resource control. You are confusing both. What regions and states control changed many times during region Al government and during the presidential system. You don’t need parliamentary system to give states control of their resources.


1960-1966 worked because of resource control. What is being proposed not resource control just a change of system of government to parliamentary.

Again use the analogy of Nigerians in traffic, your problem is you are in traffic not the lane you are on.

Shikena:
Johnson Aguiyi-Ironsi had good intentions back then but in retrospect, a huge mistake. His infamous Decree No. 34 of 1966, the “unification decree", effectively did away with the federal system of government practiced by Nigeria since its independence from British colonial rule in 1960.

What good intentions did he have?

Please explain.

I think your problem is you are mixing modeling with reality in your debate. You are creating your own models and placing objects exactly where you want

casualobserver:
Like I said type of government is different from resource control. You are confusing both


1960-1966 worked because of resource control. What is being proposed not resource control just a change of system of government to parliamentary.

Again use the analogy of Nigerians in traffic, your problem is you are in traffic not the lane you are on.

Based on the situation at that point in time, the decree was promulgated as a way of discouraging “tribal loyalties and activities which promote tribal consciousness and sectional interests and which must give way to the urgent task of national reconstruction.”

HBB1:
What good intentions did he have?

Please explain.

SoNature:
We should be talking about resource control by states and state policing. Those are critical at this point, not changing the system of government.

1000% agree. With the issues we are currently facing, the last thing we need is a wholesale change of the system of the govt. Also we need to remember the lessons of the first republic. The Parliamentary system of govt can be very unstable.
The Presidential system actually works, but it needs to be done properly, and that means states and LG's need to be totally fiscally independent. Every state should have resource control of their resources and can pay 'energy tax' the center. Police, power generation and rail should all be state responsibilities, while high speed rail between states will be Federal.

Shikena:
I think your problem is you are mixing modeling with reality in your debate. You are creating your own models and placing objects exactly where you want

When people know more than you and try to educate you best not to insult them else they don’t waste their time and you remain uninformed.

Under a parliamentary military or presidential system, you can agree who owns what resources and how much goes to the center. Again it has nothing to do with the system of government. We can decide to revert to the old 50% they can do it today without changing the system from presidential to parliamentary. To think otherwise means you don’t know what is involved and the subject matter. We can revert to a parliamentary system and the Oil in Ogoni land will still belong to federal govt and they still get on 13%. like I have told you for the umpteenth time, they are 2 different issues.

In the same way it was 20% under a presidential system in 1979 and it is 13% under a presidential system post 1999, so also the same presidential system can increase it to the 50% it was in 1960.

Furthermore, the real issue apart of derivation is who owns the resources. Changing to a parliamentary system does not automatically mean Rivers state owns the oil under it. We are not practicing true federalism under the presidential system. We can achieve the same effect of the days of regional government by simply removing oil and other minerals from the exclusive list and increasing derivation to 50%. Don’t let people deceive you with parliamentary system if those 2 things do not change and trust me they won’t change. The real issue are derivation and exclusive lists not the system of government...both can be achieved under a presidential system. Like I have said before system of government does not matter if the actors are the same insecure actors…..in typical Nigerian fashion, you will come back in 25 years saying you want the old presidential system back.


Anything else is just changing lanes in traffic going nowhere!

We got a presidential system without true federalism, what makes you think because they revert to a parliamentary system it will be the same as it was. During the regional days? The devil is in the detail…who owns what resources and what percentage do you keep….that is what should concern you if you want a return to the glory days of 1960-66 not what type of government.

Shikena:
Based on the situation at that point in time, the decree was promulgated as a way of discouraging “tribal loyalties and activities which promote tribal consciousness and sectional interests and which must give way to the urgent task of national reconstruction.”

Sounds like concocted bullshit to me.

Ironsi made that decision to consolidate power for himself.

Shikena:
Johnson Aguiyi-Ironsi had good intentions back then but in retrospect, a huge mistake. His infamous Decree No. 34 of 1966, the “unification decree", effectively did away with the federal system of government practiced by Nigeria since its independence from British colonial rule in 1960.

Irons was clueless, and he intended to entrench his people in power, but he failed with his life. Had he arrested and prosecuted the coup plotters, then Nigeria might have avoided the civil war.

Nigeria can never work as a unified country, and the evidence before us is that after 65 years, Nigeria has failed, regional government is the only option for Nigeria.

The way this thing is gaining support without opposition fun FG e don clear to me say the motive no pure at all

Too many assumptions again
You assume you know more than people based on casual online conversation while at work? Besides, how is knowing more a big deal?
Also, where is the INSULT? Interesting.

Lastly, the premises of my opinion here is not EXCLUSIVELY based on 'derivation/resource control'. That's an assumption on your part to fit the model that you have created for this debate. I even shared online resources here to buttress that.

casualobserver:
When people know more than you and try to educate you best not to insult them else they don’t waste their time and you remain uninformed.

Under a parliamentary military or presidential system, you can agree who owns what resources and how much goes to the center. Again it has nothing to do with the system of government. We can decide to revert to the old 50% they can do it today without changing the system from presidential to parliamentary. To think otherwise means you don’t know what is involved and the subject matter. We can revert to a parliamentary system and the Oil in Ogoni land will still belong to federal govt and they still get on 13%. like I have told you for the umpteenth time, they are 2 different issues.

In the same way it was 20% under a presidential system in 1979 and it is 13% under a presidential system post 1999, so also the same presidential system can increase it to the 50% it was in 1960.

Furthermore, the real issue apart of derivation is who owns the resources. Changing to a parliamentary system does not automatically mean Rivers state owns the oil under it. We are not practicing true federalism under the presidential system. We can achieve the same effect of the days of regional government by simply removing oil and other minerals from the exclusive list and increasing derivation to 50%. Don’t let people deceive you with parliamentary system if those 2 things do not change and trust me they won’t change. The real issue are derivation and exclusive lists not the system of government...both can be achieved under a presidential system. Like I have said before system of government does not matter if the actors are the same insecure actors…..in typical Nigerian fashion, you will come back in 25 years saying you want the old presidential system back.


Anything else is just changing lanes in traffic going nowhere!

We got a presidential system without true federalism, what makes you think because they revert to a parliamentary system it will be the same as it was. During the regional days? The devil is in the detail…who owns what resources and what percentage do you keep….that is what should concern you if you want a return to the glory days of 1960-66 not what type of government.

Well, issues like that are always up for debate. We have better clarity in retrospect, same way we see slave trade today compared with those who lived through it.

In my opinion, I think Ironsi (a typical Nigerian military officer "out to enforce sanity" ) had good intention but sometimes "GOOD is relative" and a matter of perspective.

sulaak:
Irons was clueless, and he intended to entrench his people in power, but he failed with his life. Had he arrested and prosecuted the coup plotters, then Nigeria might have avoided the civil war.

Nigeria can never work as a unified country, and the evidence before us is that after 65 years, Nigeria has failed, regional government is the only option for Nigeria.