Ken4Christ:


It's a good counsel to tell people to avoid drinking alcohol. I agree with you. But don't condemn anyone who drinks it and didn't get drunk. This is my point. Our church fathers are not the standard for Christian living. It's the Bible.

You have said it.

BBIA:
∆ You have said it.

The so-called Church fathers happen to be the standard of Christianity that is why while God Himself never in fact said drunkenness was a sin, there remains that hesitation among Christians to warn against drunkenness... Christians have a hard time resisting the urge to ADD there will to the mouth of God.

Ken4Christ:


It's a good counsel to tell people to avoid drinking alcohol. I agree with you. But don't condemn anyone who drinks it and didn't get drunk. This is my point. Our church fathers are not the standard for Christian living. It's the Bible.

You seem so fixated on this "not condemning" people who drink. Yet that has no bearing with this discussion. Feels like you're fighting a personal experience or something. Lol.

Well, the Bible doesn't even teach condemning any sinner, even fornicators, adulterers, etc. The godly thing is to restore them in love.

Jesus was not a drunkard but he drank wine
The wine he miraculous did in the wedding in Cana is definitely alcoholic because the head of the ceremony called it the best wine and should have been offered first until the people were intoxicated
Alcohol makes the heart Bible as the Bible says and Paul urged Timothy to drink alcohol for medicinal purposes
The bible only condemns drunkenness or excessive use of alcohol

damosky12:


If you want to drink alcohol, free free to indulge yourself in your drinking and drunkenness.

It's either you lack a proper command of English language or you're just rude.

I am a "fanatic" (you know what that means??) for explicitly going through the scriptures in response to an error. But you trying to validate your drunkenness or "drinking" out of all is there is the ideal believer? How absurd!

Drinking alcohol does not make you a drunkard
Just as eating normal food does not make you a glutton
Excess is bad

epainos:

Thanks for this verse. Actually, I read this part many times while I was trying to figure it out many years ago before I understood why it cannot still mean that Jesus drank alcohol. As I said earlier, no one can prove that he did or he didn't. Let us look at the verse.

The Greek word used in that portion is: μεθυσθῶσιν (methysthōsin) as you mentioned above. It means "get drunk". You are right. However, Bro! Remember that it was the chief guest who spoke about this. He said...ha ba! Why is the best wine coming out now? The fact is this: people drink both non-alcoholic and alcoholic drinks together at parties even in Jesus' time.

I lived very well in Europe and I have lived in Russia. You cannot drink vodka without having non-alcohol present. And let me tell you something...vodka tastes almost the same there because the producers must get the particular taste Russians want otherwise, they won't buy it. Even in Nigeria...ogogoro has a particular taste that those who drink it will tell you that..." this is it". But Naija is not a standardised place. So, inferior ones can still sell. Since vodka has a unique taste, the enjoyment derived comes from the (alkaline) non-alcohol you combine with it. Russians don't even mix it. They drink vodka directly and then drink something soft to cool down the effect of its extremely low pH. So, they rarely care about the quality of vodka, but you see big boys asking for fresh juice with no artificial sweeteners. While some just put on table-packed carbonated juice with glucose syrup. Some will tell you that only organic fresh apple is what they want. While varieties of fresh or packed juices are on the table also.


In that party, there is no proof that ONLY alcoholic drinks were served. Of course, Jews always have both too during parties.

The chief guest could have meant that haba! Why bring out the best fresh grape when everyone is already drunk and they cannot drink it again? Or why bring out the best-fermented grape when people are already drunk on a low-quality fermented one?

The only way to know the kind of drink Jesus produced was to know the exact one he produced. Not from indirect comments. And Bible uses a word that means both non-alcoholic and alcoholic. So, we don't know.

You can only guess and explain based on assumptions like yours. But still, it doesn't prove whether the one Jesus produced is alcoholic or not.

As long as "oinon" is the word used for wine in that same verse which means both alcoholic and non-alcoholic, no one can prove it. Period. That word.....wine...is the ONLY way to prove it. And we don't know.

Using the word of the chief guest is not the solution. That word for wine is the ONLY way to prove it.

Please tell me about a party where you have ONLY alcoholic drinks. If you can, then, you can win this argument. But let me tell you...you can still have only non-alcoholic drinks at parties...but never only alcohol.

Lol
Does non-alcoholic wine make you intoxicated?
Have you searched any reference material to make you belive that Jews give non alcoholic wine in joyous events?

damosky12:


I normally wouldn't indulge. But this fallacy that "wine" has to be alcohol is disturbing.

Jesus called the wine He drank "fruit of the vine." Matthew 26:29. You know what a fruit of the vine is? The words literally mean fruit from vine (those little grapes). That is grape wine. Not Hennessy.

If you want yo drink alcohol, do so with your bold mind. Don't try to justify the indulgence with this fallacy. Please...

Which one did Jesus drink in Cana?

epainos:


No one has proved that Jesus drank alcohol or did not, so, let us allow this issue to rest

What kind of wine intoxicates or make people drunk?
Alcoholic or non-alcoholic?
Besides, it was not taken from the garden or took days
Water was poured into large jars and they miraculously turned into wine

epainos:


Jewish are/were alcoholic is not the subject, but if it is, does it equate to Jesus drinking alcohol? OMG! I am just seeing how Nigerians reason logically.

Jesus was born a jew and lived like a jew

damosky12:


You seem so fixated on this "not condemning" people who drink. Yet that has no bearing with this discussion. Feels like you're fighting a personal experience or something. Lol.

Well, the Bible doesn't even teach condemning any sinner, even fornicators, adulterers, etc. The godly thing is to restore them in love.

I am not fighting a personal experience. I don't drink alcohol. I didn't even drink it when I was not yet saved. I am only correcting the wrong notion that drinking alcohol is sin. It's not in the Bible. It is not even inferred.

Aemmyjah:


Jesus was born a jew and lived like a jew

Lol! So you are born a Nigerian, and you live a Nigerian. Like igbos... you must drink "palm wine". Right? Or fulani...you must dangoyaro to knack woman... or yoruba...you must use water to wash your yansh after using the toilet. Right? Stereotyping!

Aemmyjah:


What kind of wine intoxicates or make people drunk?
Alcoholic or non-alcoholic?
Besides, it was not taken from the garden or took days
Water was poured into large jars and they miraculously turned into wine

Use your head. Think deep. That wine that intoxicated them that the chief guest talked about....was it Jesus' product? Think deep! Or are you guys not able to assimilate simple things? I don't get it.

Aemmyjah:


Lol
Does non-alcoholic wine make you intoxicated?
Have you searched any reference material to make you belive that Jews give non alcoholic wine in joyous events?

Did you read that Jesus' product was fermented? Did the chief guest say Jesus' product was fermented? Please, show me na where you got it from that the chief guest said Jesus' product is alcoholic. Please, show me. Cos I don't understand how you people dont quickly grab simple things.

Guy...na common sense this issue need na. This isnt a rocket science. What is hard here that you don't understand?

At times I wonder why people say Nigerians are smart. Cos i cant see smartness in this NL oooo. Like one using 2016 paper to explain 2,000 years old case.

epainos:

Did you read that Jesus' product was fermented? Did the chief guest say Jesus' product was fermented? Please, show me na where you got it from that the chief guest said Jesus' product is alcoholic. Please, show me. Cos I don't understand how you people dont quickly grab simple things.

Guy...na common sense this issue need na. This isnt a rocket science. What is hard here that you don't understand?

At times I wonder why people say Nigerians are smart. Cos i cant see smartness in this NL oooo. Like one using 2016 paper to explain 2,000 years old case.

That's ridiculous of your part
The head of ceremony calls it the best wine and they could have drank it first until people were intoxicated or drunk?
Na ferment enter ur small head

epainos:

Use your head. Think deep. That wine that intoxicated them that the chief guest talked about....was it Jesus' product? Think deep! Or are you guys not able to assimilate simple things? I don't get it.

What did the chief guest say?

epainos:

Lol! So you are born a Nigerian, and you live a Nigerian. Like igbos... you must drink "palm wine". Right? Or fulani...you must dangoyaro to knack woman... or yoruba...you must use water to wash your yansh after using the toilet. Right? Stereotyping!

You reason worse like than a child
We're talking about what is native to Jews in ceremony
You're talking about sex
Does you comment make any sense to you?

epainos:

Use your head. Think deep. That wine that intoxicated them that the chief guest talked about....was it Jesus' product? Think deep! Or are you guys not able to assimilate simple things? I don't get it.

King James Version
John 2:10
1And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.


Does the one Jesus produce exclude that of the Chief guest description?

Aemmyjah:


That's ridiculous of your part
The head of ceremony calls it the best wine and they could have drank it first until people were intoxicated or drunk?
Na ferment enter ur small head

If you dont understand the purpose i included fermentation there, it is worthless to continue explaining this issue especially to you.

And you mean that you still don't understand the reason the chief guest did not attribute Jesus' wine to contain alcohol or not? Mehn! I give up.

See...you must be the real victim of this forex saga ooo cos you can't think deep. Im sure you aren't earning forex in anyway. Cos if you don't still get it, it means you can't imagine abstract things and you cannot think deep at all.

Oga, a beg, when person wey fit reason deep come around, I will respond again on this thread. It seems people who can't think deep are in this religious section. No wonder pastors dey wooz dem as magas.

But make a try the last time. Does the best equate fermentation? If you don't understand this question....guy...I pray God solves Naija forex issue, cos if not...see..hunger go bad in your house ooo.

Prayer point for you: You that opened the eyes of Jacob that he was able to put stick with spots in front of the cattles when they mate, open my eyes to see deep things. Where that wisdom came from, God....I tap into it. Pray this prayer very well ooo.

Being a lawyer is far from you. I am not insulting you ooo cos person wey sabi think deep don get my view. Na fufu and indomie heads no dey grab am easily. Not insulting you ooo. Even see NL front page...dem dey show size of fufu now.... When deep thinkers are making dollars in their bedrooms. Even boys making $300 per month sef are chairmen now. Mainwhile, you see fake ogas running mouth....nothing dey dem brain.


When person wey fit reason enter here, a go know, and a go respond. A beg.....you will see people with your IQ here...go discuss with them.

Good luck!

Ken4Christ:


I am not fighting a personal experience. I don't drink alcohol. I didn't even drink it when I was not yet saved. I am only correcting the wrong notion that drinking alcohol is sin. It's not in the Bible. It is not even inferred.

Are we back to square one?

Drunkenness isn't "interred" as a sin. It's comprehensively nailed as sin.

I would avoid alcohol then. Because it's what culminates drunkenness.

That's how a devoted Christian should think. That's the point. It's not about condemning anyone or self-righteousness, but devotion to God. Simple!

Why's this raising too much dust? Why should it? Is alcohol another god?

epainos:

If you dont understand the purpose i included fermentation there, it is worthless to continue explaining this issue especially to you.

And you mean that you still don't understand the reason the chief guest did not attribute Jesus' wine to contain alcohol or not? Mehn! I give up.

See...you must be the real victim of this forex saga ooo cos you can't think deep. Im sure you aren't earning forex in anyway. Cos if you don't still get it, it means you can't imagine abstract things and you cannot think deep at all.

Oga, a beg, when person wey fit reason deep come around, I will respond again on this thread. It seems people who can't think deep are in this religious section. No wonder pastors dey wooz dem as magas.

But make a try the last time. Does the best equate fermentation? If you don't understand this question....guy...I pray God solves Naija forex issue, cos if not...see..hunger go bad in your house ooo.

Prayer point for you: You that opened the eyes of Jacob that he was able to put stick with spots in front of the cattles when they mate, open my eyes to see deep things. Where that wisdom came from, God....I tap into it. Pray this prayer very well ooo.

Being a lawyer is far from you. I am not insulting you ooo cos person wey sabi think deep don get my view. Na fufu and indomie heads no dey grab am easily. Not insulting you ooo. Even see NL front page...dem dey show size of fufu now.... When deep thinkers are making dollars in their bedrooms. Even boys making $300 per month sef are chairmen now. Mainwhile, you see fake ogas running mouth....nothing dey dem brain.


When person wey fit reason enter here, a go know, and a go respond. A beg.....you will see people with your IQ here...go discuss with them.

Good luck!

An Olodo will write an entire epistle that makes no sense and shift goalpost
You mentioned forex, palmwine, sex, fufu, prayer points
Oga
Answer my question
Which wine makes people drunk or intoxicated and why did the chief guest say that when he drank Jesus wine?

You're suffering from mental gymnastics
Visit Yaba asap

damosky12:


Are we back to square one?

Drunkenness isn't "interred" as a sin. It's comprehensively nailed as sin.

I would avoid alcohol then. Because it's what culminates drunkenness.

That's how a devoted Christian should think. That's the point. It's not about condemning anyone or self-righteousness, but devotion to God. Simple!

Why's this raising too much dust? Why should it? Is alcohol another god?

Too much alcohol causes drunkenness
Too much food causes gluttony

Bible is not against drinking or eating
Only excess is bad

Aemmyjah:


Too much alcohol causes drunkenness
Too much food causes gluttony

Bible is not against drinking or eating
Only excess is bad

You're constantly shifting the goal post because of this your alcohol activism. 🥱 Here comes your fallacy of false equivalence again.

The Bible is against greed as sin, not "excessive eating." There's nothing like that in scripture. (MAYBE you should do a search and come back). But the Bible is EXPLICITLY against drunkenness.

Come to think of it. You need food to survive. You don't need alcohol to survive. GOD knows. Otherwise, drunkenness won't be a sin (since He didn't give a measure).

Again, a devoted Christian won't be looking for a justification for alcoholism. He would stay clear. If alcohol can cause me to be drunken (and drunkenness is a sin), I would leave alcohol altogether. Right?

Aemmyjah:



King James Version
John 2:10
1And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.


Does the one Jesus produce exclude that of the Chief guest description?

I won't report you....I will only bless you. It is not my fault you don't get it. And for asking those questions...you don't get it...but it is alright. Not everyone can see deeper things..or think deeply to unravel issues like this. Logical issues don't resonate with many. It is ok. You just need to find a subject you thrive at. That's all.

Best of luck! When someone else comes around with deeper insights, I will respond. If you wanna hang around...do. perhaps you will get your answers then. If you want to continue throwing insults...feel free to do so.

Our IQs range ....very far from each other. It is frustrating going so low. A beg...no vex if you are offended.

Good luck!

Aemmyjah:


An Olodo will write an entire epistle that makes no sense and shift goalpost
You mentioned forex, palmwine, sex, fufu, prayer points
Oga
Answer my question
Which wine makes people drunk or intoxicated and why did the chief guest say that when he drank Jesus wine?

You're suffering from mental gymnastics
Visit Yaba asap

Na on top this alcohol matter you dey throw all these tirades at him abi something else?

Don't mind him my guy, dey shayo dey go. Go on soun with your palmy, Hennessey, even azul if your money reach. Notin do u.

damosky12:


Na on top this alcohol matter you dey throw all these tirades at him abi something else?

Don't mind him my guy, dey shayo dey go. Go on soun with your palmy, Hennessey, even azul if your money reach. Notin do u.

I am not supporting your fanatical ideas either

epainos:

I won't report you....I will only bless you. It is not my fault you don't get it. And for asking those questions...you don't get it...but it is alright. Not everyone can see deeper things..or think deeply to unravel issues like this. Logical issues don't resonate with many. It is ok. You just need to find a subject you thrive at. That's all.

Best of luck! When someone else comes around with deeper insights, I will respond. If you wanna hang around...do. perhaps you will get your answers then. If you want to continue throwing insults...feel free to do so.

Our IQs range ....very far from each other. It is frustrating going so low. A beg...no vex if you are offended.

Good luck!

And you brought up things that had nothing to do with our discussion
Even fools will claim to be wise as their folly never addresses anything

I ask you simply question, you talk nonsense from your head

damosky12:


You're constantly shifting the goal post because of this your alcohol activism. 🥱 Here comes your fallacy of false equivalence again.

The Bible is against greed as sin, not "excessive eating." There's nothing like that in scripture. (MAYBE you should do a search and come back). But the Bible is EXPLICITLY against drunkenness.

Come to think of it. You need food to survive. You don't need alcohol to survive. GOD knows. Otherwise, drunkenness won't be a sin (since He didn't give a measure).

Again, a devoted Christian won't be looking for a justification for alcoholism. He would stay clear. If alcohol can cause me to be drunken (and drunkenness is a sin), I would leave alcohol altogether. Right?

Why then did Paul ask Timothy to drink it?
Will you use same analogy regarding talking to the opposite sex?


Ecclesiastes 9:7
Go, eat your food with rejoicing, and drink your wine with a cheerful heart, for already the true God has found pleasure in your works.

One fruitage of the spirit is self control
Only those who can't control their drinking habits should avoid alcoholic beverages

Aemmyjah:


Why then did Paul ask Timothy to drink it?
Will you use same analogy regarding talking to the opposite sex?


Ecclesiastes 9:7
Go, eat your food with rejoicing, and drink your wine with a cheerful heart, for already the true God has found pleasure in your works.

One fruitage of the spirit is self control
Only those who can't control their drinking habits should avoid alcoholic beverages

Feel free jare. Go and drink your drink with self-control.

Aemmyjah:


I am not supporting your fanatical ideas either

Shebi you've been rooting for alcohol all over this thread. I give you the full approval as the OP. Go on soun with your bear and azul jare.

Thread closed biko!

damosky12:


Feel free jare. Go and drink your drink with self-control.

1 Corinthians 10:31
Therefore, whether you are eating or drinking or doing anything else, do all things for God’s glory.

Drinking my palmwine or Heineken is not a sin. I don't drink too much or a lot. I eat and drink to God's glory 😉

damosky12:


Shebi you've been rooting for alcohol all over this thread. I give you the full approval as the OP. Go on soun with your bear and azul jare.

Thread closed biko!

1 Timothy 5:23
Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.

What kind of wine is used for stomach upset? Alcoholic or non alcoholic?
Bible does not teaches abstinence from wine 😉

Aemmyjah:

1 Timothy 5:23
Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.
What kind of wine is used for stomach upset? Alcoholic or non alcoholic?
Bible does not teaches abstinence from wine 😉

The idea his pastors gave him has fallen yakata because if drinking must surely lead to drunkenness then eating must lead to gluttony and speaking to a female must surely lead to fornication!