Aemmyjah:




1 Timothy 5:23
Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.

What kind of wine is used for stomach upset? Alcoholic or non alcoholic?
Bible does not teaches abstinence from wine 😉

🤣 Paul wrote wine. You saw alcohol. Una get issues o. 🤣🥱

That literally was "fruit of the vine (grape)" which was prevalent in Paul's time and in Ephesus where Timothy to whom he wrote was. Simple, honest research should be saving you guys' these embarrassment, but una sha wan justify una alcoholism.

Sorry o, no be for this Bible. I left a screenshot for you.

Galatians 5:19-21
[19]Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[20]Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[21]Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Even with this una obsession with defending taking alcohol, we can already infer drunkenness. If you feel you should start to search up and down to defend your appetite for beer, that's not so different from the man in the beer palor drinking to "satisfaction."

Again, if I would not be drunken, I would not drink. The journey to being drunken is to indulge my appetite with alcohol.

damosky12:

🤣 Paul wrote wine. You saw alcohol. Una get issues o. 🤣🥱

You may then spend the money on whatever you desire—cattle, sheep, goats, wine and other alcoholic beverages, and anything you please; and you will eat there before Jehovah your God and rejoice, you and your household! Deuteronomy 14:26

Please quote this verse in the Bible version you just used!

MaxInDHouse:


You may then spend the money on whatever you desire—cattle, sheep, goats, wine and other alcoholic beverages, and anything you please; and you will eat there before Jehovah your God and rejoice, you and your household! Deuteronomy 14:26

Please quote this verse in the Bible version you just used!

Eh ehn. Was that written to you? Na wa o. Why not read the totality of Deuteronomy na.

Burnt offerings, fruit tithing, capital punishments. 🤣 As per na you be ancient near Eastern jews

damosky12:


🤣 Paul wrote wine. You saw alcohol. Una get issues o. 🤣🥱

That literally was "fruit of the vine (grape)" which was prevalent in Paul's time and in Ephesus where Timothy to whom he wrote was. Simple, honest research should be saving you guys' these embarrassment, but una sha wan justify una alcoholism.

Sorry o, no be for this Bible. I left a screenshot for you.

Galatians 5:19-21
[19]Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[20]Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[21]Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Even with this una obsession with defending taking alcohol, we can already infer drunkenness. If you feel you should start to search up and down to defend your appetite for beer, that's not so different from the man in the beer palor drinking to "satisfaction."

Again, if I would not be drunken, I would not drink. The journey to being drunken is to indulge my appetite with alcohol.

That's why Paul said little wine, not much
Moderation is the key

damosky12:


🤣 Paul wrote wine. You saw alcohol. Una get issues o. 🤣🥱

That literally was "fruit of the vine (grape)" which was prevalent in Paul's time and in Ephesus where Timothy to whom he wrote was. Simple, honest research should be saving you guys' these embarrassment, but una sha wan justify una alcoholism.

Sorry o, no be for this Bible. I left a screenshot for you.

Galatians 5:19-21
[19]Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[20]Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[21]Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Even with this una obsession with defending taking alcohol, we can already infer drunkenness. If you feel you should start to search up and down to defend your appetite for beer, that's not so different from the man in the beer palor drinking to "satisfaction."

Again, if I would not be drunken, I would not drink. The journey to being drunken is to indulge my appetite with alcohol.

Paul did not say product of the grape. He said wine
Alcohol has medicinal purposes too

For me, I drink responsibly 1
I don't drink beer, cos I don't like the sour taste of it and people you pass will easily know but I don't criticize anyone who does it. I cherish the taste of palmwine. Still, I drink responsibly 🍷

damosky12:

Eh ehn. Was that written to you? Na wa o. Why not read the totality of Deuteronomy na.
Burnt offerings, fruit tithing, capital punishments. 🤣 As per na you be ancient near Eastern jews

So when did the God who commanded what is written there condemned alcoholic beverages or sent anyone to condemn it?

damosky12:




Really?

Show me.

Fruit wine don't have different taste cos they don't go thru fermentation process.
Read about Jesus 1st miracle and the comment about the taste of the wine Jesus provided.

Dnaz:

I didn't need freeze to tell me that Jesus drank Alcohol. It is clear in the bible. U just went through great length to obscure the truth

I don't know the type of wine someone could be drinking that onlookers will end up calling him "a drunkard" perhaps it comes and Fanta! Luke 7:31-35

To the myth of Non-alcoholic wine existing 2000 years ago

Foods That Contain Alcohol (including ABV [alcohol by volume] %):
● Ripe and very ripe bananas - between 0.2-0.4% ABV [4]
● Breads (burger rolls, rye bread) - between 1.18-1.28% ABV [5]
● Fruit & Fruit juices (grape, orange, apple) - between 0.04-0.5% ABV [6]
● Yogurt & Kefir - between 0.05-2% ABV [4a/4b]
● Kombucha, Must (usually made from grapes) - between 0.5-5% ABV [7]
● Vinegars (balsamic, champagne, sherry, wine vinegar) - between 0.1-0.4% ABV [8]
● Food additives like extracts or flavourings - up to 35% ABV [9]
● Condiments like mustard and soy sauce - between 1.5-2% ABV [10]
● Some soft drinks - up to 0.5% ABV [11]

Alcohol in everyday food can fluctuate by volume depending on the item and how long it ferments before consumption

damosky12:


Are we back to square one?

Drunkenness isn't "interred" as a sin. It's comprehensively nailed as sin.

I would avoid alcohol then. Because it's what culminates drunkenness.

That's how a devoted Christian should think. That's the point. It's not about condemning anyone or self-righteousness, but devotion to God. Simple!

Why's this raising too much dust? Why should it? Is alcohol another god?

I never said drunkenness is inferred as a sin, I said drinking. And there is a marked difference between both.

Fornication is a sin also. Does it mean you will not date or get close to the opposite sex because you don't want to fornicate? The argument is in the same direction. Stop defending doctrines of Old that is not backed up by scripture. After all, under the Old Testament, the Jews were instructed to use their money to buy strong drink and make merry in a yearly feast they organize. And that God of Israel is still our God today.

damosky12:


Are we back to square one?

Drunkenness isn't "interred" as a sin. It's comprehensively nailed as sin.

I would avoid alcohol then. Because it's what culminates drunkenness.

That's how a devoted Christian should think. That's the point. It's not about condemning anyone or self-righteousness, but devotion to God. Simple!

Why's this raising too much dust? Why should it? Is alcohol another god?

Deuteronomy 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for STRONG DRINK, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household

MaxInDHouse:


So when did the God who commanded what is written there condemned alcoholic beverages or sent anyone to condemn it?

Abi na. The same God who commanded the jews not to stone the woman caught in adultery.

If you would follow the laws, why not follow all please.

Jesus spoke against drunkenness. Moses' laws didn't. We are called Christians not for following Jewish laws, but the teachings of Christ and His Apostles. The OT is only relevant within the scope of their teachings.

I thought this was basic though.

Aemmyjah:



Paul did not say product of the grape. He said wine
Alcohol has medicinal purposes too

For me, I drink responsibly 1
I don't drink beer, cos I don't like the sour taste of it and people you pass will easily know but I don't criticize anyone who does it. I cherish the taste of palmwine. Still, I drink responsibly 🍷

Correct! Feel free to drink jare. You can add more bottles sef. Don't force the Bible into your narrative.

BTW, do you know fresh palmwine is unfermented and isn't alcoholic. Hope y'all know that?

Ken4Christ:


I never said drunkenness is inferred as a sin, I said drinking. And there is a marked difference between both.

Fornication is a sin also. Does it mean you will not date or get close to the opposite sex because you don't want to fornicate?

First, google "fallacy of false equivalence."

Dating, btw, isn't a Bible practice. Let's say courting. Courting or speaking with a woman on nothing sexual or lustful is will in no way lead you to fornication.

But taking alcohol would. It's like tempting yourself... If the Bible calls drunkenness (intoxication) sin, I want to flee indulging my appetite with alcohol in its totality.

The argument is in the same direction. Stop defending doctrines of Old that is not backed up by scripture. After all, under the Old Testament, the Jews were instructed to use their money to buy strong drink and make merry in a yearly feast they organize. And that God of Israel is still our God today.

Under the OT, the Jews were instructed to offer burnt offerings, to not shape their hair, to kill children that insult their parents, to kill/banish fornicators or adulterers, etc.

Don't cherrypick Bible verses. If you want to live by the law, let's know you want to.

Here's the simple point. Think through it. If alcohol is what leads to drunkenness, why should I practice indulging my appetite with it? Is it compulsory to take it? Is it necessary? Is it important? And cant it cause you to stumble (figuratively and literally, yes).

As a personal devotion to God and to His word, many Christians don't take it. And that's the ideal, virtuous mindset.

damosky12:

Jesus spoke against drunkenness.

It's time to start lying again God's Son!

Oya quote where Jesus spoke against drinking alcoholic beverages!

MaxInDHouse:


It's time to start lying again God's Son!

Oya quote where Jesus spoke against drinking alcoholic beverages!

Wo! 🥱 Go and be drinking your buzz jare. Shelve this infantile hide and seek.

damosky12:


First, google "fallacy of false equivalence."

Dating, btw, isn't a Bible practice. Let's say courting. Courting or speaking with a woman on nothing sexual or lustful is will in no way lead you to fornication.

But taking alcohol would. It's like tempting yourself... If the Bible calls drunkenness (intoxication) sin, I want to flee indulging my appetite with alcohol in its totality.




Under the OT, the Jews were instructed to offer burnt offerings, to not shape their hair, to kill children that insult their parents, to kill/banish fornicators or adulterers, etc.

Don't cherrypick Bible verses. If you want to live by the law, let's know you want to.

Here's the simple point. Think through it. If alcohol is what leads to drunkenness, why should I practice indulging my appetite with it? Is it compulsory to take it? Is it necessary? Is it important? And cant it cause you to stumble (figuratively and literally, yes).

As a personal devotion to God and to His word, many Christians don't take it. And that's the ideal, virtuous mindset.

I can take alcohol and not get drunk because I have the spirit of self control.

Courting with a lady you love that is not yet your wife can also tempt you to fornicate. If it doesn't, why do we here stories of women getting pregnant before marriage even in the church.

Temptation is not in drinking alone. Even looking at a woman can cause you to sin. So, will you pluck your eyes off?

I sure know that we are not under the Law but the Law of Moses never gave unrighteous instructions. The scripture says that the Law is holy. So even the instruction to purchase strong drink was a holy one.

The difference between those under grace is that we have the ability to put the flesh under control.

Even in the letters of Paul to the churches, he never said that they should never take wine. Are you greater than Paul?

Paul only said, do not drink wine in excess. Please, renew your mind and stop making dogmas doctrines.

damosky12:

Wo! 🥱 Go and be drinking your buzz jare. Shelve this infantile hide and seek.

So you lied against God's only begotten Son!

damosky12:

Jesus spoke against drunkenness

Next time don't just assume whatever your pastors told you are from Jesus of Nazareth most times they often teach doctrine of men! Matthew 15:7-9

Ken4Christ:


I can take alcohol and not get drunk because I have the spirit of self control.

Courting with a lady you love that is not yet your wife can also tempt you to fornicate. If it doesn't, why do we here stories of women getting pregnant before marriage even in the church.

I carefully read all you typed. Please, read this too line by line. Don't skim through.

This is a fallacy of false equivalence. Its basic logic! This scenario doesn't align with the scenario of taking alcohol.

Indulging your appetite with alcohol isn't necessary for anything in life. It's not courtship. It's not eating. It's not sleeping. It's not central to normal life. Biko Why this forced uneven equivalence?

Also, self-control is to stay away from it. If I can't control my appetite to stay away, one bottle may become two. On a day you feel down, it could become a crate. Especially in this age of abundance of alcohol.

So, it's Christian practice to self control from the fanaticism about alcohol.

Temptation is not in drinking alone. Even looking at a woman can cause you to sin. So, will you pluck your eyes off?

This your constant repetition of this woman woman has me concerned. Are you really battling lust?

I sure know that we are not under the Law but the Law of Moses never gave unrighteous instructions. The scripture says that the Law is holy. So even the instruction to purchase strong drink was a holy one.

This theology is disturbing! I guess Jesus didn't know this when He constantly flouted the ordinances of Moses.

Pause, open your Bible, go read the story of Jesus' stance in the first few chapters of John 8. Read the first few chapters of Matt 19 (to verse 6). I could send more, but you may be impatient.

Now, see this:

Galatians 5:4
[4]Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Galatians 2:19,21
[19]For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
[21]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

1 Timothy 1:9-10
[9]Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
[10]For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Note also that Paul writes that practicing an aspect of the law as a justification from the law (i.e. circumcisions) is to be a debtor to the whole law. Galatians 5:3

Anyone with a wholesome knowledge of the Bible knows that the law wasn't written to you. You LITERALLY cannot cherrypick ordinances of the law that justify your obsession or lust whilst leaving the rest.

Abi should buying slaves because the law of Moses permits it? Or I should utterly destroy enemies that oppose God because the law permits it. There's a reason why Jesus and then His Apostles were hated by those Jews. And there's a reason why the early believers were called CHRISTians.

Shelve your activism for alcohol for a sec. Wear thinking caps.

The difference between those under grace is that we have the ability to put the flesh under control.

Well, the singular difference is this:
Romans 6:14
[14]For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

It's not hard to see that grace and law don't mix. You are not a disk jockey that will mix some part of the law that justifies your appetite with some parts of grace that suits you.

The law had its purpose; that purpose was to lead the ancient Israelites in the times they were and in the unrefined culture they lived in to grace. All the ordinances had symbolic meanings that aren't for us. This includes that one verse you're using to justify your alcohol. Read.


Galatians 3:24-25
[24]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[25]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


You see why, if you want to follow the school master that is done away with, you are a DEBTOR to do all. You can't seek justifications from the law. That makes you a debtor for all the law. You choose a part.


2 Corinthians 3:13-15
[13]And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
[14]But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
[15]But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.


You see. You can't cherrypick the law, especially the ordinances.

Even in the letters of Paul to the churches, he never said that they should never take wine. Are you greater than Paul?

Paul need not write everything explicitly. For instance, he didn't wrote to Timothy to flee youthful lusts (in 2Tim 2). The word he used was "epithumia." it's a Greek word also often used by Plato. It means "an unhealthy longing." It's an expression that has to do with appetite. So, he needs not tell Timothy not to fornicate or to use porn. That covers it.

Is alcoholism an unhealthy longing?
Answer that. Can a bottle spring to two bottles and more?
Do you stand a chance of drunkenness or getting attached to alcoholism when you indulge your appetite with alcohol.

Now Paul severely warned against drunkenness. Jesus did, too.

Paul only said, do not drink wine in excess. Please, renew your mind and stop making dogmas doctrines.

Dogma is a philosophical term that connote unreasoned beliefs that are strongly held to. They have no basis.

Here's a simple reasoning against alcoholism for a Christian.

If I would flee sin, I would practice not indulging my appetite with anything that may lead me to sin. Especially when the thing is not a necessity and has no important connection with my existence.

So many believers out of devotion to God don't indulge their appetite with alcohol. Drinking is where drunkenness starts from. Why not avoid drinking which you can?


Caveat: If you drink, I am not condemning you. This thread, written years ago, wasn't for that purpose at all. But the ideal Christian conduct is to be clean from such indulgence.

I don't know why this is raising much dust!

MaxInDHouse:


So you lied against God's only begotten Son!



Next time don't just assume whatever your pastors told you are from Jesus of Nazareth most times they often teach doctrine of men! Matthew 15:7-9

Go and freely drink your burukutu brother. Don't mind me jare.

damosky12:

Go and freely drink your burukutu brother. Don't mind me jare.

I'm not your brother but your neighbour and i do drink my alcoholic beverages responsibly just as Jesus did it's Pharisees like you that are trying to add to what God said by accusing the faultless yet we are better than you in doing God's will! Luke 7:31-35

MaxInDHouse:


I'm not your brother but your neighbour and i do drink my alcoholic beverages responsibly just as Jesus did it's Pharisees like you that are trying to add to what God said by accusing the faultless yet we are better than you in doing God's will! Luke 7:31-35

Ok, my guy. More beer to your table! 🤜🤛

damosky12:

Ok, my guy. More beer to your table! 🤜🤛

The alcoholic beverages makes the heart of man rejoice {Psalms 104:15} so i wish you joy!

damosky12:


I carefully read all you typed. Please, read this too line by line. Don't skim through.

This is a fallacy of false equivalence. Its basic logic! This scenario doesn't align with the scenario of taking alcohol.

Indulging your appetite with alcohol isn't necessary for anything in life. It's not courtship. It's not eating. It's not sleeping. It's not central to normal life. Biko Why this forced uneven equivalence?

Also, self-control is to stay away from it. If I can't control my appetite to stay away, one bottle may become two. On a day you feel down, it could become a crate. Especially in this age of abundance of alcohol.

So, it's Christian practice to self control from the fanaticism about alcohol.



This your constant repetition of this woman woman has me concerned. Are you really battling lust?



This theology is disturbing! I guess Jesus didn't know this when He constantly flouted the ordinances of Moses.

Pause, open your Bible, go read the story of Jesus' stance in the first few chapters of John 8. Read the first few chapters of Matt 19 (to verse 6). I could send more, but you may be impatient.

Now, see this:

Galatians 5:4
[4]Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Galatians 2:19,21
[19]For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
[21]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

1 Timothy 1:9-10
[9]Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
[10]For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Note also that Paul writes that practicing an aspect of the law as a justification from the law (i.e. circumcisions) is to be a debtor to the whole law. Galatians 5:3

Anyone with a wholesome knowledge of the Bible knows that the law wasn't written to you. You LITERALLY cannot cherrypick ordinances of the law that justify your obsession or lust whilst leaving the rest.

Abi should buying slaves because the law of Moses permits it? Or I should utterly destroy enemies that oppose God because the law permits it. There's a reason why Jesus and then His Apostles were hated by those Jews. And there's a reason why the early believers were called CHRISTians.

Shelve your activism for alcohol for a sec. Wear thinking caps.



Well, the singular difference is this:
Romans 6:14
[14]For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

It's not hard to see that grace and law don't mix. You are not a disk jockey that will mix some part of the law that justifies your appetite with some parts of grace that suits you.

The law had its purpose; that purpose was to lead the ancient Israelites in the times they were and in the unrefined culture they lived in to grace. All the ordinances had symbolic meanings that aren't for us. This includes that one verse you're using to justify your alcohol. Read.


Galatians 3:24-25
[24]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[25]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


You see why, if you want to follow the school master that is done away with, you are a DEBTOR to do all. You can't seek justifications from the law. That makes you a debtor for all the law. You choose a part.


2 Corinthians 3:13-15
[13]And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
[14]But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
[15]But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.


You see. You can't cherrypick the law, especially the ordinances.



Paul need not write everything explicitly. For instance, he didn't wrote to Timothy to flee youthful lusts (in 2Tim 2). The word he used was "epithumia." it's a Greek word also often used by Plato. It means "an unhealthy longing." It's an expression that has to do with appetite. So, he needs not tell Timothy not to fornicate or to use porn. That covers it.

Is alcoholism an unhealthy longing?
Answer that. Can a bottle spring to two bottles and more?
Do you stand a chance of drunkenness or getting attached to alcoholism when you indulge your appetite with alcohol.

Now Paul severely warned against drunkenness. Jesus did, too.



Dogma is a philosophical term that connote unreasoned beliefs that are strongly held to. They have no basis.

Here's a simple reasoning against alcoholism for a Christian.

If I would flee sin, I would practice not indulging my appetite with anything that may lead me to sin. Especially when the thing is not a necessity and has no important connection with my existence.

So many believers out of devotion to God don't indulge their appetite with alcohol. Drinking is where drunkenness starts from. Why not avoid drinking which you can?


Caveat: If you drink, I am not condemning you. This thread, written years ago, wasn't for that purpose at all. But the ideal Christian conduct is to be clean from such indulgence.

I don't know why this is raising much dust!

I never said that we should follow what the Law instructed. Christ ended the law but it's righteous requirements was not abolished.

The point I am making is that alcoholic drinks were neither condemned in the old or the new testament. So, there is consistency. What you are saying is a personal opinion. And personal opinion is not the word of God.

Below are what our Lord Jesus, Apostle Paul and Apostle Peter said concerning it. Don't add to it. Let's stick to what the word of God says;


Our Lord Jesus only Condemned Drunkeness!

“But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, AND TO BE DRUNKEN.” (Luke 12:45).

“And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and DRUNKENNESS, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.” (Luke 21:34).

Apostle Paul also Condemned Drunkenness Only.

“Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and DRUNKENNESS, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.” (Romans 13:13).

“But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, OR A DRUNKARD, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.” (1 Corinthians 5:11).

“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, NOR DRUNKARDS, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

“Envyings, murders, DRUNKENNESS, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:21).

“And BE NOT DRUNK WITH WINE, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit.” (Ephesians 5:18).

In all these passages, Paul didn’t say, don’t drink wine. But he condemned drunkenness and cautioned on taking wine in excess.

Another verse reads;

“NOT GIVEN TO WINE, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous” (1st Timothy 3:3).

In the instructions given to deacons, he wrote;

“Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, NOT GIVEN TO MUCH WINE, not greedy of filthy lucre.” (1st Timothy 3:.

To the Bishops, he also admonished;

“For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, NOT GIVEN TO WINE, no striker, not given to filthy lucre.” (Titus 1:7).

And to the aged women, he said;

“The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, NOT GIVEN TO MUCH WINE, teachers of good things.” (Titus 2:3).

You see the consistency of Apostle admonition concerning drinking of wine. There is no single verse he condemned it. He only cautioned against its excesses.

Apostle Peter’s Comment on The Subject.

“For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, EXCESS OF WINE, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries.” (1st Peter 4:3).

Here Peter only condemned the excess of wine like Paul said. However, there are manner and ways you take it that could cause your brother to stumble. Hence Paul said;

“It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.” (Romans 14:21).

How can you cause someone to stumble when you take wine? If a new member of your church who is already addicted to wine comes to you for counselling on how he could free himself from that addiction. Then he sees you with one bottle of alcohol on your table, he will certainly will be embolden to continue. And it is worse if you are a Pastor he was looking up to.

Therefore, there are times we refrain from exercising our liberty for the sake of the weaker brethren in our midst.

“Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.” (1 Corinthians 8:13).

Ken4Christ:


How can you cause someone to stumble when you take wine? If a new member of your church who is already addicted to wine comes to you for counselling on how he could free himself from that addiction. Then he sees you with one bottle of alcohol on your table, he will certainly will be embolden to continue. And it is worse if you are a Pastor he was looking up to.

Awesome study. I see you found amongst those expressions, "not given to wine" (alcohol in that context). You also found the use of "excess of wine," "not given to much wine."

The word, "given" there is word that relates to a habit. See... It's a word for craving. That's instructive.

Now, the use of "much wine," "excess wine," etc. was not a license for the church to indulge the appetite with alcohol. That's been a common beer parlor justification.

Wear your thinking cap, Jesus condemns drunkenness. His Apostles did same. And it's unquestionable. Hence, their use of "not given much wine," cannot mean "given to small wine."

In 1Tim 3:3 and Titus 1:7, He outrightly says "not given to wine." In other words, he doesn't have an habit of taking alcohol. No use of much or excess.

Therefore, there are times we refrain from exercising our liberty for the sake of the weaker brethren in our midst.

“Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.” (1 Corinthians 8:13).

If you read the context of this portion, it has nothing to do with alcohol. You are reading your mind into it. It had to do with food offered to idols. Full stop. And why? The answer is in verses 4 to 6. There's nothing like an idol. Jesus Christ rules over them all. So that "liberty" is theological one. It's an exercise of dominion over idols.

Alcohol isn't part of this liberty o. 🤣 Alcohol? Liberty ke?

Now see my main point again: I don't encourage believers to indulge their appetite with alcohol. The Apostles didn't. Why?

1. Drunkenness which comes from taking alcohol is sin. And being GIVEN TO alcohol begins with taking a bottle for fun.

If I want to help a believer live without worries of falling into alcohol addiction (as the point you even made), I would teach staying clear! Why? Drunkenness and being given to drinking are lurking.

2. There is no Biblical measure of the amount of alcohol that will get you drunk. You can use alcohol. To cook. To make medicine. But drinking is to indulge your appetite for it.

There is no saying how much of it you'll take to get drunk. Some would be drunk after a cup. Some, after a bottle.


CONCLUSION: Let's shelve this beer parlour justifications and do better things. No godly pastor would infer in his teachings that christians who don't take alcohol can go ahead to try it out.

That's where a christian should be. We are not unbelievers who glorify our flesh that much.

damosky12:


Awesome study. I see you found amongst those expressions, "not given to wine" (alcohol in that context). You also found the use of "excess of wine," "not given to much wine."

The word, "given" there is word that relates to a habit. See... It's a word for craving. That's instructive.

Now, the use of "much wine," "excess wine," etc. was not a license for the church to indulge the appetite with alcohol. That's been a common beer parlor justification.

Wear your thinking cap, Jesus condemns drunkenness. His Apostles did same. And it's unquestionable. Hence, their use of "not given much wine," cannot mean "given to small wine."

In 1Tim 3:3 and Titus 1:7, He outrightly says "not given to wine." In other words, he doesn't have an habit of taking alcohol. No use of much or excess.




If you read the context of this portion, it has nothing to do with alcohol. You are reading your mind into it. It had to do with food offered to idols. Full stop. And why? The answer is in verses 4 to 6. There's nothing like an idol. Jesus Christ rules over them all. So that "liberty" is theological one. It's an exercise of dominion over idols.

Alcohol isn't part of this liberty o. 🤣 Alcohol? Liberty ke?

Now see my main point again: I don't encourage believers to indulge their appetite with alcohol. The Apostles didn't. Why?

1. Drunkenness which comes from taking alcohol is sin. And being GIVEN TO alcohol begins with taking a bottle for fun.

If I want to help a believer live without worries of falling into alcohol addiction (as the point you even made), I would teach staying clear! Why? Drunkenness and being given to drinking are lurking.

2. There is no Biblical measure of the amount of alcohol that will get you drunk. You can use alcohol. To cook. To make medicine. But drinking is to indulge your appetite for it.

There is no saying how much of it you'll take to get drunk. Some would be drunk after a cup. Some, after a bottle.


CONCLUSION: Let's shelve this beer parlour justifications and do better things. No godly pastor would infer in his teachings that christians who don't take alcohol can go ahead to try it out.

That's where a christian should be. We are not unbelievers who glorify our flesh that much.

You are going round in circles.

I repeat that the Bible never said don't drink alcoholic drinks. It only condemns drunkenness which you have also noted. Your point is don't drink at all to avoid the temptation of getting drink. And I said that is your personal opinion. The scripture never said that.

Not given to wine simply means to get addicted to it. It never said, don't drink wine.

The one who drinks and didn't get drunk has not sinned. Period.

Ken4Christ:


You are going round in circles.

I repeat that the Bible never said don't drink alcoholic drinks. It only condemns drunkenness which you have also noted. Your point is don't drink at all to avoid the temptation of getting drink. And I said that is your personal opinion. The scripture never said that.

Not given to wine simply means to get addicted to it. It never said, don't drink wine.

The one who drinks and didn't get drunk has not sinned. Period.

Can you calm down and read. Stop this bubbly hurrying to give a blanket rebuttal like this. I am believing you have self-control.

Respond paragraph by paragraph if it'll help. Go over it. Then respond by reasoning from scriptures. That's what I did. Not this "it's your opinion" fallacy. Show that the scripture contradicts my stance. Do the epistles tilt more towards encouraging alcoholism or discouraging it?

And bracket your bias for a second. I'm believing you can. Na "4 Christ" dey your name so. The evidence is before you!

damosky12:


Can you calm down and read. Stop this bubbly hurrying to give a blanket rebuttal like this. I am believing you have self-control.

Respond paragraph by paragraph if it'll help. Go over it. Then respond by reasoning from scriptures. That's what I did. Not this "it's your opinion" fallacy. Show that the scripture contradicts my stance. Do the epistles tilt more towards encouraging alcoholism or discouraging it?

And bracket your bias for a second. I'm believing you can. Na "4 Christ" dey your name so. The evidence is before you!

Please stop being proud. Accept the truth. The scripture only cautious against drunkenness. And I proved it to you. But you are saying, don't drink so you don't get drunk. It's a good counsel and your personal opinion.

I am saying that the one who drinks and don't get drunk hasn't committed any sin unless it is done in manners and ways as to cause a weak soul to stumble.

Ken4Christ:


Please stop being proud. Accept the truth. The scripture only cautious against drunkenness. And I proved it to you. But you are saying, don't drink so you don't get drunk. It's a good counsel and your personal opinion.

I am saying that the one who drinks and don't get drunk hasn't committed any sin unless it is done in manners and ways as to cause a weak soul to stumble.

I am proud now?.. 🤣 For what? For not succumbing to your alcoholic "truth?" Beer parlour "truth!" Ah! Nairaland baffles me o.

You know what you're defending so hard? It's not alcohol o. It's a fallen devotion standard.

damosky12:


I am proud now?.. 🤣 For what? For not succumbing to your alcoholic "truth?" Beer parlour "truth!" Ah! Nairaland baffles me o.

You know what you're defending so hard? It's not alcohol o. It's a fallen devotion standard.

I know you are shocked to see that there is not a single scripture condemning drinking alcohol. Just show me one.

I don't drink alcohol by habit. I can stay years without tasting it. But I don't condemn Christians who take it. And the scripture don't either.

Ken4Christ:


I know you are shocked to see that there is not a single scripture condemning drinking alcohol. Just show me one.

I don't drink alcohol by habit. I can stay years without tasting it. But I don't condemn Christians who take it. And the scripture don't either.

"A single scripture..." 🥱 Says so much about your theology! It's muffled man! But God can help you if you'll allow Him.

This beer palpur theology is a thing though. 😐

It goes like this: the Bible says drunkenness is a sin. Therefore, the Bible says we can drink. So, we can drink, but we would stop drinking before we get drunk." What a dishonest devotion? 🤣 Just an excuse (or justification?) to indulge their appetite as some would even defend any sin they're guilty of.

Here are questions to keep us sane:

1. if the Bible describes drunkenness as a sin, does it give a measure of how much alcohol to drink before slipping into drunkenness or before counting as "given to excess alcohol"?


2. If the Bible describes drunkenness as a sin, how wholesome is it for me to tell myself, "let me go for alcohol - just one bottle and I'll stop?" Does that sound like I'm devoted to actually staying far from sin?



3. If the epistles teach against drunkenness, would it be okay to conclude from texts like "dont be drunk with excess wine" (Eph 5:18) or "much wine" as a go ahead to self-indulge our appetite with alcohol? Wouldn't we be picking these texts out of context?

"If the epistles says much wine is sin, therefore, it is saying little wine is fine." How reasonable is that, given that it gives no measurement for what is much or little, what is excess or not excess?


4. Considering all, would it not be crystal clear that the Bible teaches against self-indulging with alcohol? (Not necessarily alcohol use as alcohol has been used in preparation of some foods, preservation of foods, medicinal purposes, etc.).

Wouldn't we be better off to maintain a stance against indulging alcohol (which is what the epistles severally infer), especially as a doctrinal matter?


CONCLUSION: Drunkenness or being "given to alcohol" cannot happen when we don't self-indulge with alcohol. If we do, it can and most likely would happen as there's no divine measurement for what's "excess" alcohol for anyone.

Recall, the epistles teach FLEEING (to run totally from or japa from) sin. 1Tim 6:11, 2 Tim 2:22, 1 corinth 6:18. The Christian's godly response to sin is to flee, not to apply self-control or use will power to scale through. But the "beer parlour doctrine" seems to believe otherwise: "indulge with alcohol, but try escape getting drunk. And you're good."

Self deceit seeking justification.