paxonel:
let's look at what it means to confess Christ in the context of this scripture.
It does not necessarily mean to confess sin. For instance, if someone is a fornicator it doesn't mean that the person should confess that he is a fornicator. Confession in this context actually mean to be convinced and accept it to the point you can say it out with your mouth that the Jesus that was crucified is the Christ or Messiah(as anticipated by the Israelites of that time).

Don't get me wrong : I'm not saying that confession sin to a Reverend father or a pastor is wrong. But I'm saying that, this is not what the context of that scripture is referring to

Now, do you agree that everyone, especially those that were born and raised by Christian parents have no problem confessing Christ according to this scripture, even though they may be witches, members of the occult , armed robbers, kidnappers, and therefore they are all saved?

Fixed.

If they have no problem confessing Christ, then let them freely do it anyway they're invited to do it.

I

paxonel:
Telling a Christian that he should give his life to Christ is like telling a child of the president or King to become a child of the president or king that he already is..
It amount to a contradiction.

Giving your life to Christ is not the same thing as repentance

When a pastor make an altar call, that church members should come out and give their lives to Christ, it shows how ignorant and deficient in scriptures the pastor has made himself to be. As a pastor, you either call out church members to repent of their sin, or to renew their commitment in church, or for communion ,etc

Therefore engaging in evangelism as Paul the apostle and other early Christians did, entails bringing a non Christian into the kingdom.
Not bringing someone who is already a Christian that is committing sin.

Though, repentance was part of their preaching, but it was never a requirement to be a Christian.

Who is an unbeliever?
An unbeliever is someone that does not believe

Examples of non Christians are Muslims, atheists, judaists, traditionalists, etc
Take note that these people can be morally upright as Christians too.

Meaning of the word TO CONVERT someone

The Oxford dictionary defines the word CONVERT as the definite and decisive adoption of another religion

This implies that when a Christian preaches to a Muslim for example, about Christ, and the Muslim begins to adopt Christianity, then the Christian has converted the Muslim.
Not a Christian preaching to a Christian.
.

How does one become a Christian?

vdestro:


Correct!

How does someone become a Christian?

paxonel:
who told you that?
Have you ever see Muslim or atheist going to church?
You are still finding it difficult to define who a Christian is
lies!
Big lies

A believer is anyone who believes in Christ.

John 3:16 ...whosever believth in him should not perish.

The only reason why you see anyone going to church is because they believe
lordreed case could just be an exception. It's like a true Muslim attending church which is not common.

But most people you see in church are Christians in Ernest, you can't dispute that .

By the way, what's all the altar calls for?
To catch up with one muslim or atheist who possibly is not available among a hundred Christian population in the congregation?

What a hypocritic wild geese chase

Believing alone doesn't make you a Christian.

Besides, you must believe in your heart and not in your head.

The template for conversion is contained in Romans 10:9-10.

It's in two stages.

Stage one - Believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead. Not everyone believes this. For instance, The Jehovah Witness do not believe that Jesus was raised from the dead bodily.

Second stage - Confess that Jesus is Lord of your life. This is what finally initiates you into the body of Christ.

Even our Lord Jesus said that it's your word that justifies or condemns you - Matthew 12:37.

Goodlady:

Define who's a Christian and why those alive today must be a Christian.

Na you i ask?

Who is a Christian?

Was John the Baptist a born again Christian?

Were Moses, Abraham, Noah, etc born Again Christians?

Was Jesus a born again Christian?

No! No! No!

AbuTwins:


Na you i ask?

Who is a Christian?

Was John the Baptist a born again Christian?

Were Moses, Abraham, Noah, etc born Again Christians?

Was Jesus a born again Christian?

No! No! No!

A Christian is a modernization of Musa, Ibrahim, etc. Moses, Abraham etc are born again based on what Allah demanded during their time. They came before Jesus.
The word Christianity came from era of Jesus Christ. It means to live a just life and as well serving Allah as directed by Prophet Issa (PBUH).

The word born again is just a modern era of telling someone like you who's not a Christian to convert to Christianity or someone who was already a Christian and backslided to return.

John the Baptist was born again too cos he lived during the time of Jesus and witnessed God's confirmation of Jesus that This is my beloved son. John 1:29-33. Matthew 3:13, Matthew 16:17.


Now tell me who's a Christian from your own angle. I v answered all ya first questions.

Goodlady:


A Christian is a modernization of Musa, Ibrahim, etc. Moses, Abraham etc are born again based on what Allah demanded during their time. They came before Jesus.
The word Christianity came from era of Jesus Christ. It means to live a just life and as well serving Allah as directed by Prophet Issa (PBUH).

The word born again is just a modern era of telling someone like you who's not a Christian to concert to Christianity or someone who was already a Christian and backslided to return.

John the Baptist was born again too cos he lived during the time of Jesus and witnessed God's confirmation of Jesus that This is my beloved son. John 1:29-33. Matthew 3:13, Matthew 16:17.


Now tell me who's a Christian from your own angle. I v answered all ya first questions.

Omo you sabi o!
Please I'm sending a mail. I wish you reply. Thanks.

tollyboy5:

Omo you sabi o!
Please I'm sending a mail. I wish you reply. Thanks.

Monitoring spirit. Go to ya work, you can't afford me

Goodlady:

Monitoring spirit. Go to ya work, you can't afford me

Afford? Lol
What is your price range. I sent a mail

Goodlady:

Monitoring spirit. Go to ya work, you can't afford me

Just name your price.

you can’t be more expensive than Jennyclay and Siofra combined

paxonel:
definitely you are right. I understand what you are saying.
It follows that altar calls are never the right approach to win souls since the pastor cannot determine who exactly among the congregation is unbeliever. Because any attempt to make a general call will also include ignorant believers or Christians whom the church has failed to educate them in that aspect to let them know that they were already saved by virtue of the fact that they were born Christians and were made to believe in Christ from childhood.

So, a better approach to catch up with Non Christians is to preach the word of salvation from the pulpit. If any of them deem it fit or decides to change their religion at that point, will do so quietly, or approach the pastor secretly to inform him that he want to be converted.
This is more appropriate than throwing a random call for salvation to the general congregation. Except their target is to continue deceiving people to make money from their ignorance

Hear a clown unbeliever that knows more than the apostles that counted 3000 souls and discipled them.

paxonel:
Telling a Christian that he should give his life to Christ is like telling a child of the president or King to become a child of the president or king that he already is..
It amount to a contradiction.

Giving your life to Christ is not the same thing as repentance

When a pastor make an altar call, that church members should come out and give their lives to Christ, it shows how ignorant and deficient in scriptures the pastor has made himself to be. As a pastor, you either call out church members to repent of their sin, or to renew their commitment in church, or for communion ,etc

Therefore engaging in evangelism as Paul the apostle and other early Christians did, entails bringing a non Christian into the kingdom.
Not bringing someone who is already a Christian that is committing sin.

Though, repentance was part of their preaching, but it was never a requirement to be a Christian.

Who is an unbeliever?
An unbeliever is someone that does not believe

Examples of non Christians are Muslims, atheists, judaists, traditionalists, etc
Take note that these people can be morally upright as Christians too.

Meaning of the word TO CONVERT someone

The Oxford dictionary defines the word CONVERT as the definite and decisive adoption of another religion

This implies that when a Christian preaches to a Muslim for example, about Christ, and the Muslim begins to adopt Christianity, then the Christian has converted the Muslim.
Not a Christian preaching to a Christian.
.

He that is born of God does not commit sin, believest thou this?

Ken4Christ:


Believing alone doesn't make you a Christian

this your statement contradicts Romans 3:28

Romans Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Besides, you must believe in your heart and not in your head.

you didn't attach any scripture in support of this

The template for conversion is contained in Romans 10:9-10.

Romans 10 is very straight forward to understand.

start reading from verse 1 you will understand what the whole chapter is explaining

Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

The aim of this whole Epistle of Paul is that Israel should be saved. And for them to be saved they have to confess Christ. That is, to agree that Jesus is the Christ, simple.

The opposite of the word confess there is to deny.

To confirm this, read the stories of Jesus while he was yet alive before he was crucified. The Pharisees who were the leaders of the Jews(Israelites) actually denied Christ as their Messiah.
Even till today

It's in two stages.

Stage one - Believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead.

the scripture did not mention any stage.
It is just believe that's all.

Whether you believe in the heart or mind or confess it out with your mouth that Jesus is the Christ, it is still amount to believe which all Christians today have done in their heart too

Not everyone believes this. For instance, The Jehovah Witness do not believe that Jesus was raised from the dead bodily.

that is their own cup of tea.
What is important is that the vast majority of Christians all over the world today have believed

Second stage - Confess that Jesus is Lord of your life. This is what finally initiates you into the body of Christ.

confess, believe, accept, they are all the same synonyms, therefore there is nothing like second stage.

The point is, Paul had used all these synonyms to say one thing, which is to believe that's all

Jesus put is as one, not on stages by saying whoever believes in me should not perish but have everlasting life.

Even our Lord Jesus said that it's your word that justifies or condemns you - Matthew 12:37.

one can only say the words that he believes. Meaning, if you don't believe in your heart you cannot confess or say it out .

So everything still amount to believe

Ken4Christ:
I

How does one become a Christian?

There are two possible ways to become a Christian.
1. By birth : as in new birth in Christ.

1 Timothy 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

A child that is born and brought up in Christian home is a Christian right from the point of his birth until he decides to change his religion when he becomes an adult.
If he choses to continue in Christ and die a Christian then he has eternal life, simple

2. By conversion : that is, when someone that wasn't a Christian initially is preached to, and he believed. At that point he is a believer

Image123:


He that is born of God does not commit sin, believest thou this?

certainly.

It depend on what God sees as sin, not what we see as sin.
The truth is, whosever is born of God is seen by God as Christ himself. Not by what he actually is. Because of this, he does not commit sin in God's eyes.
That is, God has forgiven all his iniquities in advance because of Christ

Image123:


Hear a clown unbeliever that knows more than the apostles that counted 3000 souls and discipled them.

You have started again abi?
Can't you make your argument without using words like clown?
You are very free to counter anything i say, but do it constructively and not with insult and i will see your point and agree with you

I will not respond to you again if you repeat this

paxonel:

There are two possible ways to become a Christian.
1. By birth : as in new birth in Christ.

1 Timothy 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

A child that is born and brought up in Christian home is a Christian right from the point of his birth until he decides to change his religion when he becomes an adult.
If he choses to continue in Christ and die a Christian then he has eternal life, simple

2. By conversion : that is, when someone that wasn't a Christian initially is preached to, and he believed. At that point he is a believer

You can't be a Christian just because you were raised in a Christian home. You must get to the age of accountability where you personally make it decision to accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour.

paxonel:
this your statement contradicts Romans 3:28

Romans Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
you didn't attach any scripture in support of this
Romans 10 is very straight forward to understand.

start reading from verse 1 you will understand what the whole chapter is explaining

Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

The aim of this whole Epistle of Paul is that Israel should be saved. And for them to be saved they have to confess Christ. That is, to agree that Jesus is the Christ, simple.

The opposite of the word confess there is to deny.

To confirm this, read the stories of Jesus while he was yet alive before he was crucified. The Pharisees who were the leaders of the Jews(Israelites) actually denied Christ as their Messiah.
Even till today
the scripture did not mention any stage.
It is just believe that's all.

Whether you believe in the heart or mind or confess it out with your mouth that Jesus is the Christ, it is still amount to believe which all Christians today have done in their heart too
that is their own cup of tea.
What is important is that the vast majority of Christians all over the world today have believed
confess, believe, accept, they are all the same synonyms, therefore there is nothing like second stage.

The point is, Paul had used all these synonyms to say one thing, which is to believe that's all

Jesus put is as one, not on stages by saying whoever believes in me should not perish but have everlasting life.
one can only say the words that he believes. Meaning, if you don't believe in your heart you cannot confess or say it out .

So everything still amount to believe

Just accept that you have learnt something new which is also very important.

Believe in your heart and confessing with your mouth doesn't mean the same thing. But what you confess is definitely a function of what you believe. Out of the abundance of the heart, the month speaks.

Goodlady:

Monitoring spirit. Go to ya work, you can't afford me

Honestly I don't wish to afford you.
I don't like that statement. Women are not commodity that need to be purchased.
I wanted to ignore completely but just felt I should let you know you can do better.
I also sincerely don't wish to extend this convo. Thanks tho.

Goodlady:

You and the op need to understand that preachers or evangelists just their their jobs randomly to all. If you are a Christian (not a worshipper or Church goer) you ll know the message isn't for you. Giving life to Christ is for those who backslided or haven't done so before. Understand English and meaning of programmes, events etc that warranted such.

Backslided means that person already knows about giving their lives to Christ which is the point of the thread, so telling them to.do so, kind of feels pointless and ridiculous as we would say

"dem no know before? If dem wan give their life to Christ before dem no for do am since even before today? Abeg, dem no serious"

paxonel:
why then are postors not saying if you know you are an atheist in this church, come out for salvation?

Why are they targeting Christians?

.

LordReed:


LoLz. You think if a pastor says that I will go out? That is not how to appeal to people.

FxMasterz:


The case of lordreed is not an exception!

My dad went to church as a Muslim. He married my mum from there. Many Ogbonis are in Church. A lot of witches and people of the occult are in Church! Some robbers go to church too. But according to you, they don't need to give their lives to Christ?

Dis one too na True!

paxonel:

What is hard for them to just say emm! Muslims,Ogboni,Witches etc, come out! ...

LordReed:


LoLz. It's not a problem, you are not using emotional intelligence. If you call out people like that they are not likely to respond because it puts them on the spot. It makes it look like they are being judged. You don't see pastors say if you are a prostitute come out, if youa re an adulterer come out. People will not respond to such, even if they did the people in the congregation are going to look at them funny,guaranteed.

.oooh i don luagh tire for dis thread!

paxonel:
certainly.

It depend on what God sees as sin, not what we see as sin.
The truth is, whosever is born of God is seen by God as Christ himself. Not by what he actually is. Because of this, he does not commit sin in God's eyes.
That is, God has forgiven all his iniquities in advance because of Christ

Reason why i rightly called you a clown unbeliever, i am not just knowing you today, obviously. Nobody talked about or mentioned what God sees as sin, i guess that is His business, ba? The fact is that if you sin, you have to repent of your sin.
Obviously, Ananias, Sapphira, Demas and other backsliders were not seen as Christ but as people who satan entered their hearts. Paul, Peter and other apostles evidently did not have this danjalous revelation that only you and your pastor received from we know who. Even Jesus was not briefed.

paxonel:

You have started again abi?
Can't you make your argument without using words like clown?
You are very free to counter anything i say, but do it constructively and not with insult and i will see your point and agree with you

I will not respond to you again if you repeat this

You don't like the word "clown", then stop behaving like one. You make satan and unbelievers laugh at the christian faith with your acrobatic displays. You were not constructive in your assertions.

Image123:


You don't like the word "clown", then stop behaving like one. You make satan and unbelievers laugh at the christian faith with your acrobatic displays. You were not constructive in your assertions.

point out one of my assertion that i wasn't constructive

Image123:


Reason why i rightly called you a clown unbeliever, i am not just knowing you today, obviously. Nobody talked about or mentioned what God sees as sin, i guess that is His business, ba? The fact is that if you sin, you have to repent of your sin.
Obviously, Ananias, Sapphira, Demas and other backsliders were not seen as Christ but as people who satan entered their hearts. Paul, Peter and other apostles evidently did not have this danjalous revelation that only you and your pastor received from we know who. Even Jesus was not briefed.

I didn't say that when you sin you don't have to repent, did I?

Where?

paxonel:

I didn't say that when you sin you don't have to repent, did I?

Where?

Repentance was never a requirement to be a Christian. You said that, right?

paxonel:
point out one of my assertion that i wasn't constructive

You said "someone who is a Christian that is committing sin", same you said that you believe that a Christian does not commit sin. How's that constructive and not acrobatic? Same you said, "altar calls are never the right approach to win souls". How constructive is it in line with scriptures where sinners were clearly called to repent and counted?

Image123:


Repentance was never a requirement to be a Christian. You said that, right?

Is this suppose to mean when a Christian sin he does not have to repent?

In case you don't understand the meaning of the word requirement and how it applies
To pass government in waec is not a requirement to be admiited in the university for studying Biochemistry.
Does that mean that a student prospecting to study Biochemistry should not pass government in waec?
The answer is no!

When you have difficulties understanding simple logic the reasonable thing to do first is to ask questions, or you don't have business quoting me, talkless of using words like clown on top of what your brain is not developed enough to understand, otherwise you make a fool out of yourself.

Now, don't quote me again except you have anything reasonable to say, or I will not respond