₦airaland Forum

Michael547:
■ Oga so you mean God never saved anyone including the ancient isrealites who prayed for success against their enemy nations in the bible?
■ So you mean God was not listening to Any prayers?

1. Did God save them from evil every time they prayed against evil or did God allow His Will to take precedence in all of the cases?

2. According to God, He only answers the prayers of the righteous, and even then, He does so according to His Will, so where were the ancient Israelites all righteous people that God would answer all of their prayers against evil?

Kobojunkie:
1. Did God save them from evil every time they prayed against evil or did God allow His Will to take precedence in all of the cases?

2. According to God, He only answers the prayers of the righteous, and even then, He does so according to His Will, so where were the ancient Israelites all righteous people that God would answer all of their prayers against evil?

Oh so you even agree that God saved them from evil....so why have you been cunny?

Why will God save the isrealites from the same evil that he is the perpetrator of? Is that not conflict of action?


Why will God only answer the prayer of the righteous when he is also the perpetrator of unrighteousness?

Michael547:
■ Oh so you even agree that God saved them from evil....so why have you been cunny.
■ Why will God save the isrealites from the same evil that he is the perpetrator of? Is that not conflict of action?

I am afraid I am not even following your line of reasoning even up till this point.

26 He said to him, “I am the Lord your God. If you listen to me and do what I say is right, and if you obey all my commands and laws, then I will not give you any of the sicknesses that I gave the Egyptians. I am the Lord who heals you.” - Exodus 15:26

God is the one who gave those sicknesses — evil — to the Egyptians. And He is the same one who told His people, Israel, that if they would obey Him, He would not give the same sickness — evil — to them. So, what exactly are you attempting to argue? Explain yourself better!

2. Isn't it written in the Law that if the people obeyed Him He would deliver them from their enemies... aka evil to the Israelites?

15 “But if you don’t listen to what the Lord your God tells you—if you don’t obey all his commands and laws that I tell you today—then all these bad things will happen to you:
16 “The Lord will curse you in the city and in the field.
...- Deuteronomy 28 vs 15 - 57

And if the people do not obey, God Himself would curse them. So, again, what are you attempting to argue?

Kobojunkie:
I am afraid I am not even following your line of reasoning even up till this point.
God is the one who gave those sicknesses — evil — to the Egyptians. And He is the same one who told His people, Israel, that if they would obey Him, He would not give the same sickness — evil — to them. So, what exactly are you attempting to argue? Explain yourself better!

2. Isn't it written in the Law that if the people obeyed Him He would deliver them from their enemies... aka evil to the Israelites?
And if the people do not obey, God Himself would curse them. So, again, what are you attempting to argue?

Oga is God not the source of the evil committed by the isrealites?
Is he not the source of their enemy nations?

So why is he cursing them?
Why is he Saving them from Evil since he wants evil to happen to them?
Why are the isrealites praying to him since he is the source of all good and evil deeds that befalls them?

Michael547:
■ Oga is God not the source of the evil committed by the isrealites? Is he not the source of their enemy nations?
■ So why is he cursing them? Why is he Saving them from Evil since he wants evil to happen to them?
■ Why are the isrealites praying to him since he is the source of all good and evil deeds that befalls them?

1. He created all evil, yes! and He defined that which is evil and which is not, yes! So what exactly is your question?

2. Why can't He curse them? How did you come to this notion that He wants Evil to happen to them?

3. Why can't the Israelites pray to Him who is the source of all good and evil that befalls them?

Kobojunkie:
1. He created all evil, yes! and He defined that which is evil and which is not, yes! So what exactly is your question?

2. Why can't He curse them? How did you come to this notion that He wants Evil to happen to them?

3. Why can't the Israelites pray to Him who is the source of all good and evil that befalls them?

What is God's definition of what is evil and good?

Michael547:
■ What is God's definition of what is evil and good?

God's Law says that which is against His Will/Law is evil meaning that which complies with His Will/Law is not evil. Humans on the other hand typically believe that that which is against their own ideas and will is what evil is.

Kobojunkie:
God's Law says that which is against His Will/Law is evil meaning that which complies with His Will/Law is not evil. Humans on the other hand believe that that which is against their ideas and will is evil.

So you mean evil is not the will of God? Yes or no?

Michael547:
■ So you mean evil is not the will of God? Yes or no?

God's Law — the Will of God — is not evil, yes!

Kobojunkie:
God's Law — the Will of God — is not evil, yes!

So why did God create evil against his law?

Michael547:
■ So why did God create evil against his law?

Evil and Good are defined within/by God's Law. The Law itself is not Evil but the Law defines Evil. And God's creation of Evil is NOT against His Law.

Kobojunkie:
Evil and Good are defined within/by God's Law. The Law itself is not Evil but the Law defines Evil. And God's creation of Evil is NOT against His Law.

Ok.....who makes people commit evil?

Michael547:
■ Ok.....who makes people commit evil?

As you read from God's Law, evil is an active choice made by individuals.

15 “But if you don’t listen to what the Lord your God tells you—if you don’t obey all his commands and laws that I tell you today—then all these bad things will happen to you:
16 “The Lord will curse you in the city and in the field.
...- Deuteronomy 28 vs 15 - 57

Kobojunkie:
As you read from God's Law, evil is an active choice made by individuals.

Ok......does the devil lure people to commit evil?

Michael547:
■ Ok......does the devil lure people to commit evil?

His job seems to be to test men by offering them options that are against God.

Kobojunkie:
His job seems to be to test men by offering them options that are against God.

Who sends the devil to do all of that?

Michael547:
■ Who sends the devil to do all of that?

God, the same one who created evil to begin with.

Kobojunkie:
God, the same one who created evil to begin with.

So God sends the devil to tell people to go against his own laws?

Michael547:
■ So God sends the devil to tell people to go against his own laws?

You can pretty much put it that way! Obedience and disobedience are both addressed in His Law after all. Has been that way since Adam.

Kobojunkie:
You can pretty much put it that way! Obedience and disobedience are both addressed in His Law after all. Has been that way since Adam.

So we can agree that God wants people to obey and disobey his laws........ Yes or no?

Michael547:
■ So we can agree that God wants people to obey and disobey his laws........ Yes or no?

Nope! God is instead written to have told His people to obey Him; He is never in fact recorded to have asked them to disobey Him.

5 So now I tell you to obey my commands and keep my agreement. So if you do this, you will be my own special people. The whole world belongs to me, but I am choosing you to be my own special people. - Exodus 19:5

Kobojunkie:
Nope! God is instead written to have told His people to obey Him; He is never in fact recorded to have asked them to disobey Him.

So why does he send the devil to tell people to go against his laws?

Michael547:
■ So why does he send the devil to tell people to go against his laws?

Scripture has Satan as sort of God's quality control manager of some sort. He tests all men under God's Law to see if they are worthy of God's approval or not. Even the righteous, including Jesus Christ, were not spared.

Kobojunkie:
Scripture has Satan as sought of God's quality control manager of some sort. He tests all men under God's Law to see if they are worthy of God's approval or not. Even the righteous, including Jesus Christ, were not spared.

Where does the scripture say that Satan is God's control manager?

You also mean that God's Law in itself is not a sufficient test for righteousness, God has to tell Satan to convince people to do evil before he knows that they are righteous?

Michael547:
■ Where does the scripture say that Satan is God's control manager?

Scripture does not state it but it sort of portrays Satan as just that. The Old Testament has stories of God using Satan to trick David. Another instance is found in the account in Job 1. Job was already approved righteous by God yet God saw fit to use Satan to test Job. Jesus Christ was already approved by God whose voice bellowed from Heaven commanding men to obey Him yet Satan showed up to Jesus Christ after He was led by the Spirit of God into the wilderness.

Kobojunkie:
Scripture does not state it but it sort of portrays Satan as just that. The Old Testament has stories of God using Satan to trick David. Another instance is found in the account in Job 1. Job was already approved righteous by God yet God saw fit to use Satan to test Job. Jesus Christ was already approved by God whose voice bellowed from Heaven commanding men to obey Him yet Satan showed up to Jesus Christ after He was led by the Spirit of God into the wilderness.

So you mean that God approved this people but did not really trust them until he sends the devil to convince them to go against his will?

Michael547:
■ So you mean that God approved this people but did not really trust them until he sends the devil to convince them to go against his will?

▶ What reason does God have to put His trust in men?
▶ And what gives you the impression that the devil eventually stopped tempting these men at some point?

Kobojunkie:
▶ What reason does God have to put His trust in men?
▶ And what gives you the impression that the devil eventually stopped tempting these men at some point?

I never made any of the above claim.
It's interesting that even Jesus was not trusted until the he was tempted by the devil.

Does the devil go against the will of God?

Michael547:
■I never made any of the above claim.
■ It's interesting that even Jesus was not trusted until the he was tempted by the devil.
■ Does the devil go against the will of God?

1. The word Trust contained in your previous comment is not my doing.

Michael547:
■ So you mean that God approved this people but did not really trust them until he sends the devil to convince them to go against his will?

2. Scripture instead has it that Jesus Christ was Trusted by God long before His birth given that the prophets prophesied His birth and His status with God long before it all came to pass.

2. God's Will/Law defines the relationship between God and man, not necessarily the devil and God.

Kobojunkie:
1. The word Trust contained in your previous comment is not my doing. 2. Scripture instead has it that Jesus Christ was [b]Trusted by God long before His birth given that the prophets prophesied His birth and His status with God long before it all came to pass. ;[/b]D

2. God's Will/Law defines the relationship between God and man, not necessarily the devil and God.

Then why did God still had to send the devil to tell Jesus to go against his will?

Does the devil go against God's will? Yes or no?

Michael547:
■ Then why did God still had to send the devil to tell Jesus to go against his will?
■ Does the devil go against God's will? Yes or no?

1. Is there some sort of Law allowing God to do exactly that which has been the fate of men since the very beginning or something?

2. If the Devil is not revealed to be a subject that is subject to God's Law and Will to the sons of men, how could he be found guilty of going against God's Law for instance the Law of Moses?

[quote author=Kobojunkie post=130040455]1. Is there some sort of Law allowing God to do exactly that which has been the fate of men since the very beginning or something?

2. If the Devil is not revealed to be a subject that is subject to God's Law and Will to the sons of men, how could he be found guilty of going against God's Law for instance the Law of Moses? [/Moses?

So you mean that the devil is not under the will/law of God and that he can never go against the will of God?