₦airaland Forum

StillDtruth:
When you throw yourself into fire are you not the one who condemns and tortures yourself?

So you are.

I answered the question you asked with more which is why i asked you how many switches did it take you to turn and choose anti Godism, because you yourself did not take too much time switching it on. So you are the one deflecting and trying to dodge the import of my statement.

But the one question i did not deem fit to aswer is this one "Can you choose to not believe in your God this second, like flipping a switch in your head?" because, my personal belief is not the topic of discussion, so you changing post and making it personal.

It wasn't a question to your personal beliefs.

It was a question to the nature of belief itself, A person believes in God for example because they're convinced of his existence, due to one reason or the other, same goes for someone who doesn't believe in God. The subject of wether their reason is logical or valid is a different matter.

So I'm not of the opinion that belief is a deliberate choice, a person can't simply choose to believe or not believe in God, or other claims, as easily as flipping a switch in their head, it takes a matter of being convinced by one reasoning or another.

Of which my answer to it is i chose to believe God after taking due time to evaluate the matter and since the 90's till today, it has been a very sweet and fruitful and satisfying abd fulfilling living, so i have no reason whatsoever to unchoose my choice of choosing Him.

So your answer is, to paraphrase 'you thought about it and came to your conclusion, and are convinced of God's existence, so you can't not believe in him, you have no reason not to.'

Unlike you, your fear and dread for hellfire and death and punishment already makes you run helter skelter seeking for a remedy.

You're projecting again.

You know for someone discussing in bad-faith, you sure do act defensive and make accusations a lot.

StillDtruth:
And God has already Said it that He judges a person based on their actions as you expected.

"Who will render to every man according to his deeds." Romans 2:6

So, you have nothing here.

So can a person that isn't convinced of Jesus's existence, death or resurrection, just thinks Jesus is an inspiring fictional character, make it to heaven based on the merit of their deeds/ actions alone?

Yes or No, don't move the goalpost.

honesttalk21:
Specifically no one is the almighty God who alone determines the eternal reward. Subscribing to good advice from God derived through the prophets he sent over time towards good personal and interpersonal relations isn't bad.

At the time of individual death what is the guarantee that one is actual adherence to this guidance? There however is hope that by God's mercy one will be and still benefit of this in the after life. In any case the earthy life is often a good pointer to what this will be.

You can are free to believe only God will determine everyone's fate.
However the religious books which are understood to be the direct will of God are clear on who's saved or shown mercy.

Belief is not banal since it's a mental construct that arises from the interaction between our cognitive processes and the external world.

To be precise I stated that "In an atheist worldview, individual belief in a deity is banal"
Never made the argument that the broad general concept of belief is not useful or part of being human.
Just why it matters to a creator, and why someone is deserving of eternal punishment because of it.

According to social psychologist Irving Janis, belief is an attitude toward a proposition or situation in which an individual feels certainty.
This feeling of certainty can be based on rational thinking or emotional responses. For instance, someone might believe in the existence of God based on religious experiences or emotional connections to religious texts.

We are in agreement here, belief is not a deliberate choice, rather a subject of being convinced or certain about something for one reason or another.

MaxInDHouse:
It's clear for those who humbly accept the truth without Jesus no man can be saved!

I at least appreciate your straight forwardness and honesty on the subject.

DeusXmachina:
So can a person that isn't convinced of Jesus's existence, death or resurrection, just thinks Jesus is an inspiring fictional character, make it to heaven based on the merit of their deeds/ actions alone?

Yes or No, don't move the goalpost.

What is the qualification for escaping puniishment and entering a new world which people call enterinh heaven?

Answer: Sin-none-ness/good fullness/righteosness.

Now, is there any man who has never done anything wrong or bad or evil? No. All men sin and give offence. Eg (imagine someone calling you fictional, even after all evidence points to you, have they not offended you even or later) Would you accept such person in your house after this disrespect and disregard and contempt {see 3 wrongs}? You won't even rent your house to.such a person.

And even if you did the right from today, would you always do the right? No

What about your wrongs of yesterday, do you not stand guilty and condemned for them eg a bandit who had murdered a family members and who still took ransom from the living members, does he not remain guilty of this wrong thing even if he had stopped kidnapping and murdering people?

So either way you turn, you are always going to be in trouble of being found guilty of wrong doing whether you accept God or not!

StillDtruth:
What is the qualification for escaping puniishment and entering a new world which people call enterinh heaven?

Answer: Sin-none-ness/good fullness/righteosness.

Now, is there any man who has never done anything wrong or bad or evil? No. All men sin and give offence. Eg (imagine someone calling you fictional, even after all evidence points to you, have they not offended you even or later) Would you accept such person in your house after this disrespect and disregard and contempt {see 3 wrongs}? You won't even rent your house to.such a person.

And even if you did the right from today, would you always do the right? No

What about your wrongs of yesterday, do you not stand guilty and condemned for them eg a bandit who had murdered a family members and who still took ransom from the living members, does he not remain guilty of this wrong thing even if he had stopped kidnapping and murdering people?

So either way you turn, you are always going to be in trouble of being found guilty of wrong doing whether you accept God or not!

So the simple answer is No.
Got it.

You and MaxD, have both presented the same conclusion, Your God's love and mercy is selective, based on people who happen to share the same exact beliefs and ideas as you yourselves.

I have issues with your line of logic in your argumention, but that's not the topic and you did answer my question.

DeusXmachina:
So the simple answer is No.
Got it.

You and MaxD, have both presented the same conclusion, Your God's love and mercy is selective, based on people who happen to share the same exact beliefs and ideas as you yourselves.

I have issues with your line of logic in your argumention, but that's not the topic and you did answer my question.

We were talking belief as you had raised and now without any explanation or reason you now bring in God's Love calling it biased and selective whereas it was not in issue at all, isn't this evil, unjust and unfair?

To even consider it, where is the bias and selectivity God's Love when He has already stretched out His Hands inviting "anyone" to come to Him?

Man, you are very very wicked!

DeusXmachina:
You can are free to believe only God will determine everyone's fate.
However the religious books which are understood to be the direct will of God are clear on who's saved or shown mercy.

And do you.not see that they are saved based on the fact that they meet the criteria and standard of qualificatiion to be saved applicable to all people whether they believed God or not?

DeusXmachina:
We are in agreement here, belief is not a deliberate choice, rather a subject of being convinced or certain about something for one reason or another.

Does it not take deliberation to be convinced?See how you twist yourself out of balance.

StillDtruth:
And do you.not see that they are saved based on the fact that they meet the criteria and standard of qualificatiion to be saved applicable to all people whether they believed God or not?

So your rational is that "Your God has made his will known and that will is the Bible, and part of that will is belief in him and following the commandments in the Bible. Meaning the requirements for salvation is free and equally available to everyone."
Therefore belief, being your God's biggest requirement for salvation, is perfectly reasonable.

However.
We've already established, that belief is not a matter of simple choice. Which makes that ask still unreasonable.

People don't choose to not believe in your bible and it's claims because they're convinced it's true, but secretly hate it like you tend to alluded to.
They either belong to another religion with their own holy book, they believe is from God that makes a different set of claims and you're in the wrong to them. Or see it as another mythic religious book that makes claim that can't be substantiated.

This is a different topic tho, which will have to venture into what makes your own holy book and interpretation, the correct and true one the creator intended.
And what evidence you have that can show this beyond a reasonable doubt.

Does it not take deliberation to be convinced?See how you twist yourself out of balance.

Depends on the individual.
Do you remember in 2014 during the ebola outbreak, when millions of Nigerians were convinced to bathe with salt in one night, and in 2020 when a number of people believed 5G signal was the cause of covid?

I agree it usually takes some form of deliberation to be convinced about something, and for a person to believe it true or false.

But I'll have to ask what type of deliberation?
From the examples I gave, these were people who were mislead, and believed something because they heard it from someone they may have trusted and also lacked the knowledge or tools to question it further.
This was the extent of their deliberation and their reason for believing it.
I saw this with my eyes, when my parents and elders believed false things in the case of the examples given.

Most people's extent of deliberation of their religion is their parents believe in it and raised them in it, and parents usually know better. "So I'll believe in my parents God and faith." Which is why most people born in a specific religion most often stay in it, very few apostatize to a different faith, or become Atheists.

I alluded to this point earlier, when I said "... A person believes in God for example because they're convinced of his existence, due to one reason or the other, same goes for someone who doesn't believe in God. The subject of wether their reason is logical or valid is a different matter."

DeusXmachina:
Depends on the individual.
Do you remember in 2014 during the ebola outbreak, when millions of Nigerians were convinced to bathe with salt in one night, and in 2020 when a number of people believed 5G signal was the cause of covid?"

See, you used the word "were convinced" in your speech.

What you fail to consider is that there is almost no action which is not carried out based on consideration. even if some are not well thought out properly assesed. However, before a persom acts on a proposal, he first did some thinkings (deliberations) on it.

And this is where i.wanted to point out that you were not aware that deliberation means "the act of thinking about (or discussing) something and deciding carefully or carelessly"

DeusXmachina:
But I'll have to ask what type of deliberation?
From the examples I gave, these were people who were mislead, and believed something because they heard it from someone they may have trusted and also lacked the knowledge or tools to question it further.

That is why God, our Creator,gave us the gift that we naturally think (deliberate) about a matter before we act, for deliberation helps us discover lies and errors and flaws in any proposal.

DeusXmachina:
Most people's extent of deliberation of their religion is their parents believe in it and raised them in it, and parents usually know better.

Most people's deliberation are based on their natural limits never leanring from their experience that they do not know how to think well as proven by their several confessions
saying " i no think am well or i no think am like dat".

Toyota advert- Yo shinai, Yo kangai-Good! -thinking, Good Product

DeusXmachina:
So your rational is that "Your God has made his will known and that will is the Bible, and part of that will is belief in him and following the commandments in the Bible. Meaning the requirements for salvation is free and equally available to everyone."
Therefore belief, being your God's biggest requirement for salvation, is perfectly reasonable..."

First, whether you accept God or not, what is, is that we all see that The Law all over world is on the doing the good and the right and the punushment/condemnation of the evil and the wrong. Eg there is no place in the world where stealing, lying, adultery, murder is allowed!

Which He Who we call God has clearly expressed by our natural living and in the bible.

And since people rather chose to do the evil rather than the good in violation of The Law, pretending as if they do not know The Law, God therefore, Spelt out The Law and Wrote them out, so that no man should pretend that they did not know The Law and be in Hs Trouble when He Comes to inforce The Law!

Then in the bible, in addition to these Laws, gives us examples of those who kept The Laws and those who disregarded it, with a couple of commentaries made on these issues and Laws!

And that is all! Leaving you to consider these things one way or the other.

But i good thinking and common sense has always taught us that "prevention is the best medicine" You obey The Law of not drinking and driving because it is better than destroying your hard earned vehicle to buy another one. So that Law saved your life, and your property and from being guilty of mankilling should your drunkeness kill anither person or persons.

So doth, The Commandment save a person who chooses to heed it.

But like the drunken driver, he can choose to follow the belief of "nothing dey happen, i dey drink drive steady".

But to obey or disobey, is a matter of his choice.

DeusXmachina:
However.
We've already established, that belief is not a matter of simple choice. Which makes that ask still unreasonable.

Wrong! We agreed and found that belief is established on deliberation and conviction whether the deliberator thinks well and validly or not!

DeusXmachina:
People don't choose to not believe in your bible and it's claims because they're convinced it's true, but secretly hate it like you tend to alluded to.
They either belong to another religion with their own holy book, they believe is from God that makes a different set of claims and you're in the wrong to them. Or see it as another mythic religious book that makes claim that can't be substantiated.

This is a different topic tho, which will have to venture into what makes your own holy book and interpretation, the correct and true one the creator intended.
And what evidence you have that can show this beyond a reasonable doubt.

As you said "this is a different topic" as you yourself have already agreed that people can base their beliefs whether their thinkings were valid, and logical and True or not!

DeusXmachina:
And a question, do you think holding a belief is a choice?...?

That is what growth and adulthood means for it is the time and opportunity every one has and gets to evaluate their living and experience and to.ratify or discard choices imposed on you or made for you where you get to exercise your own right and choice/choices of how you want to live or die and other choices.

See example of growth and adulthood!

wumiwumi100:
Guy, I am still angry at myself for not waking up earlier from this useless religion. I was angry at my parents the first time I realized I had been brainwashed. Why would they make me get baptized at such a young age?

Courz
Me likewise. I am also regretting why I didnt wake up sooner. You know, the more time you spend in this Cult, the more time you waste because your whole life is tied to it. But if you had woken up sooner, you would have achieved a lot with your life because now Watchtower is no longer a middle man to your life. No stumbling block. I pity JWs who took life decisions tied around the Cult. When they wake up, they usually turn out to be the most brutal apostates alive. It is not too late. The bit we can do is expose what we have seen to save others who are also questioning. Our parents didnt know any better. They did what they felt was right. Now we have the choice to change that and make sure we dont produce generations that will be captured by this Fraud of a religion.

And see, DeusXmachina, when these attack their former beliefs, if you are fair, you would see that whilst the supporters of their former beliefs flee from them these ones are ready to address any and every issue in contention.

That is how it is when a person is on the right.

FAITH (BELIEVE) IS THE ONLY WAY TO THE RICHES AND WEALTH OF GOD.