₦airaland Forum

Nefort:
How many of them are they compared to the billions of other sane christians world worldwide? Bad people will always exist in every group. There will also be atheists who also discriminate and attack christians?

But you said such things don't happen

Nefort:
Christians are the huge majority. So many people wouldn't have any problem with it. Atheists are a minority so you can't just come in the midst of christians to promote your atheists ideas without the majority getting uncomfortable with it.

Ok. Thank you for letting me know freedom of speech is not allowed in Christianity
Have a nice day, bro

Nefort:
The reason I said christians don't attack atheists is because it is very rare. How many times have you witnessed an atheist in Nigeria being publicly attacked in the streets of Nigeria? Witnessing it one or two times still doesn't imply it is a wider issue. Please feel free to go about your daily business as an atheist. As long as you don't get offensive about it christians wouldn't care about your existence.

Yah, atheists aren't attacked publicly but we are attacked privately. If public attacks are allowed, you'd seen atheists lynched. I have heard folks and even friends tell me that I'm lucky murder is illegal, they would have burned me alive. Such loving christians

TenQ:
Too bad for you. At least I could show you by names the disciples of Christ who witnessed His crucifixion.
Unfortunately, Your own prophet that gave you your narrative while feigning to be Allah
1. Was not even a distant disciple nor follower of Jesus
2. He never met anyone of the disciples of Jesus
3. He wasn't in the trial of Jesus
4. He wasn't close to the execution ground to assertain the identity of the one who was crucified
This prophet of yours is in fact one of the many Antichrists to come.

Before you cry,
Is Allah the Father!?
Is Jesus the Son of God?
1Jn 2:22:
"Who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denies the Father and the Son."
Tell me then how Mohammed is not one of the Antichrists!


How convincing!

Please why does your bible in the book of John in multiple places refer to just one particular disciple as the loved disciple?

Then you show me disciples according to your definition however this consist of just 1 of the disciples specially recognized as an apostle by Jesus in your bible.

Does the phrase the disciple that Jesus loved explain why only him of this 'promoted' twelve was there? Were the others aware they were less loved?

Then 1Jn 2:22 was originally written in Greek wasn't it?

In ancient Greek religion and mythology, the concept of god as father is primarily embodied in the figure of Zeus.

Zeus is an archetypal father figure often referred to as “Father” by other gods, signifying his position as a patriarchal figure within the pantheon. He is depicted as a sky god who wields thunderbolts and presides over justice, law, and order.

Does your Bible not tell you that you are gods?


In ancient Greek religious practices, rituals often included sacrifices to honor Zeus as a father figure. These offerings were made not only out of reverence but also out of an expectation for reciprocity by worshippers who believed that by honoring Zeus through sacrifices or votive offerings at sanctuaries dedicated to him such as Olympia, they would receive blessings in return.

Does this not resonate with the belief of the sacrifice to redeem mankind at the root of Christianity?

Was this not ratified in the several council meetings in Rome which includes Nicea?

Is it not odd that this ratification wasn't done in Israel where Jesus actually lived and preached?

Indeed at the time of Jesus the Israelites were under Greek rule and after his departure they also took over and reformed his preaching into their own culture.

Keep struggling to protect this.

honesttalk21:
Please why does your bible in the book of John in multiple places refer to just one particular disciple as the loved disciple?

Then you show me disciples according to your definition however this consist of just 1 of the disciples specially recognized as an apostle by Jesus in your bible.

Does the phrase the disciple that Jesus loved explain why only him of this 'promoted' twelve was there? Were the others aware they were less loved?

Then 1Jn 2:22 was originally written in Greek wasn't it?

John as the writer of the book of John refers to himself as such:
Unless you can refer to one place where Jesus claimed to love someone more than the other, shut up.

I asked you the questions:
Does Allah love Mohammed?
Does Allah love Mohammed more than Aisha?

honesttalk21:
In ancient Greek religion and mythology, the concept of god as father is primarily embodied in the figure of Zeus.

Zeus is an archetypal father figure often referred to as “Father” by other gods, signifying his position as a patriarchal figure within the pantheon. He is depicted as a sky god who wields thunderbolts and presides over justice, law, and order.

Does your Bible not tell you that you are gods?


In ancient Greek religious practices, rituals often included sacrifices to honor Zeus as a father figure. These offerings were made not only out of reverence but also out of an expectation for reciprocity by worshippers who believed that by honoring Zeus through sacrifices or votive offerings at sanctuaries dedicated to him such as Olympia, they would receive blessings in return.

Does this not resonate with the belief of the sacrifice to redeem mankind at the root of Christianity?

Was the Torah written in Greek?
God is the Father in the scripture of the Jews.

To Allah, you are just mere slaves: sorry!
Allah is not YAHWEH !

The illogicality of your question is this:
Zeus is the creator to the Greeks
Allah is the creator to the Muslims
Therefore,
The Muslims must have taken the concept of creator from the Greeks.

Can you see yourself?

honesttalk21:
Was this not ratified in the several council meetings in Rome which includes Nicea?

Is it not odd that this ratification wasn't done in Israel where Jesus actually lived and preached?

Indeed at the time of Jesus the Israelites were under Greek rule and after his departure they also took over and reformed his preaching into their own culture.

Keep struggling to protect this.

Unfortunately, except the following verses from your Qur'an are FALSE,
Can you explain WHY your God adopted a scripture supposedly corrupted because the bible says that Jesus created EVERYTHING seen and unseen.


It is a shame that Allah did not seem to know the verses you quote for Allah in his books and omniscience disagree with you modern Muslims.
Qur'an 7:157
Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; and he will relieve them of their burden and the fetters that they used to wear. Then those who believe in him, and honour him, and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him: they are the successful.

Qur'an 2:41
And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone.

Qur'an 2:89
And when there cometh unto them a scripture from Allah, confirming that in their possession - though before that they were asking for a signal triumph over those who disbelieved - and when there cometh unto them that which they know (to be the truth) they disbelieve therein. The curse of Allah is on disbelievers.

Qur'an 2:101
And when there cometh unto them a messenger from Allah, confirming that which they possess, a party of those who have received the Scripture fling the Scripture of Allah behind their backs as if they knew not,

You are simply concluding that Allah is not knowledgeable enough like you.


Are you saying that Allah is powerless to protect his books?

Too bad, you are the one who is struggling to respond because if the Qur'an is true, then the Qur'an is false because the Bible contradicts the Qur'an.

Let me show you just one verse in the Bible
Jesus said:
Rev 22:12-13:
"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."

jaephoenix:
Of course, he targeted atheism. So why didn't he allow the atheists to worry about the conversions(according to you)?

You still don't get it; thats because I am not an atheist so anything about them is not my business. I AM A CHRISTIAN. I only defend christianity. Are you a slow learner?

jaephoenix:
Of course, he targeted atheism. So why didn't he allow the atheists to worry about the conversions(according to you)?

You can defend atheism if you are an atheist, but leave christianity alone!!

TenQ:
John as the writer of the book of John refers to himself as such:
Unless you can refer to one place where Jesus claimed to love someone more than the other, shut up.

I asked you the questions:
Does Allah love Mohammed?
Does Allah love Mohammed more than Aisha?



Was the Torah written in Greek?
God is the Father in the scripture of the Jews.

To Allah, you are just mere slaves: sorry!
Allah is not YAHWEH !

The illogicality of your question is this:
Zeus is the creator to the Greeks
Allah is the creator to the Muslims
Therefore,
The Muslims must have taken the concept of creator from the Greeks.

Can you see yourself?



Unfortunately, except the following verses from your Qur'an are FALSE,
Can you explain WHY your God adopted a scripture supposedly corrupted because the bible says that Jesus created EVERYTHING seen and unseen.


It is a shame that Allah did not seem to know the verses you quote for Allah in his books and omniscience disagree with you modern Muslims.
Qur'an 7:157
Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; and he will relieve them of their burden and the fetters that they used to wear. Then those who believe in him, and honour him, and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him: they are the successful.

Qur'an 2:41
And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone.

Qur'an 2:89
And when there cometh unto them a scripture from Allah, confirming that in their possession - though before that they were asking for a signal triumph over those who disbelieved - and when there cometh unto them that which they know (to be the truth) they disbelieve therein. The curse of Allah is on disbelievers.

Qur'an 2:101
And when there cometh unto them a messenger from Allah, confirming that which they possess, a party of those who have received the Scripture fling the Scripture of Allah behind their backs as if they knew not,

You are simply concluding that Allah is not knowledgeable enough like you.


Are you saying that Allah is powerless to protect his books?

Too bad, you are the one who is struggling to respond because if the Qur'an is true, then the Qur'an is false because the Bible contradicts the Qur'an.

Let me show you just one verse in the Bible
Jesus said:
Rev 22:12-13:
"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."

Who verifies and or authenticates John's regarding himself as the disciple that Jesus loved other than himself?

Extremely wrong comparison.
Zeus begets or fathers others but Allah is unique and beyond this. Allan is neither birthed not births and non can be compared to him.
The Greek fathering concept is synonymous to your christian belief. Prove otherwise please.

Show me who the prophet that can neither read or write from the Torah and Gospel as said in Quran 7:157.

honesttalk21:
Who verifies and or authenticates John's regarding himself as the disciple that Jesus loved other than himself?

Who verified Mohammed that
1. He wrote the Qur'an as received from Jibril?
2. Who verified that what Mohammed say was Angel Gabriel of YHWH and not a demon?

honesttalk21:
Extremely wrong comparison.
Zeus begets or fathers others but Allah is unique and beyond this. Allan is neither birthed not births and non can be compared to him.
The Greek fathering concept is synonymous to your christian belief. Prove otherwise please.

The Jewish kingdom and Hebrew existed well before the greek and God whose name is YHWH is a Father. Thus, you use a wrong comparison.

Unfortunately, the Greek kingdom wrote of their Zeus before the Arabs, thus
Zeus is the creator to the Greeks
Allah is the creator to the Muslims
Therefore,
The Muslims must have taken the concept of creator from the Greeks.

Can you see yourself?

honesttalk21:
Show me who the prophet that can neither read or write from the Torah and Gospel as said in Quran 7:157.

It certainly isn't Mohammed because Mohammed could read and write. I am surprised that you don't know this!?

You will note that there is not one verse in the Qur'an where the source of the book can be validated

TenQ:
Who verified Mohammed that
1. He wrote the Qur'an as received from Jibril?
2. Who verified that what Mohammed say was Angel Gabriel of YHWH and not a demon?

Please present proof that Prophet Muhammad pbuh wrote the Quran or even a verse.

There is abundant proof of those with him feeling the weight of revelation when it came to upon him.

His impeccable character before and during the revelation.

Has anyone lived up to the challenge of presenting anything similar to the Quran?

TenQ:
The Jewish kingdom and Hebrew existed well before the greek and God whose name is YHWH is a Father. Thus, you use a wrong comparison.

Unfortunately, the Greek kingdom wrote of their Zeus before the Arabs, thus
Zeus is the creator to the Greeks
Allah is the creator to the Muslims
Therefore,
The Muslims must have taken the concept of creator from the Greeks.

Concept of God in Islam is very different from Greek. There's adequate semblance between Christianity and Greek beliefs on this point.

Traditional Jewish interpretations reject the notion that any human could literally be considered divine or begotten by God in a biological sense. Is this not what is said of Jesus?
Throughout Jewish history strict monotheism is maintained a that does not accommodate the idea of God having offspring in any literal sense.
Jews do not have a concept of God literally begetting any human, they rather view such language as metaphorical representations of special relationships established through covenants.

TenQ:
It certainly isn't Mohammed because Mohammed could read and write. I am surprised that you don't know this!?

You will note that there is not one verse in the Qur'an where the source of the book can be validated

I asked you who this verse refers and do not name anyone. My point is simple. Please explain who the Prophet that can neither read nor write described in the Torah and the Gospel?

I am certain you cannot so why refer to the verse in the first place?

jaephoenix:
Yah, atheists aren't attacked publicly but we are attacked privately. If public attacks are allowed, you'd seen atheists lynched. I have heard folks and even friends tell me that I'm lucky murder is illegal, they would have burned me alive. Such loving christians

Atheists would also say or do the same thing to christians if they were the majority. The reason why atheists are appearing nice and peaceful is because they are the minority, so they have no choice but to remain calm in the midst of christians. I hope you agree with this?

jaephoenix:
Ok. Thank you for letting me know freedom of speech is not allowed in Christianity
Have a nice day, bro

It's not about freedom of speech. You can't challenge or disregard other people's beliefs without facing a push back.

honesttalk21:
Please present proof that Prophet Muhammad pbuh wrote the Quran or even a verse.

There is abundant proof of those with him feeling the weight of revelation when it came to upon him.

There is NO single proof (outside Islam) that Mohammed existed outside the islamic narratives not to speak of evidence that he wrote the Qur'an.

Did any Muslim EVER ONCE see Jibril?
Don't forget that Jibril is very tall and has 600 wings: except if Jibril is indeed Dihyah Al-Kalbi

honesttalk21:
His impeccable character before and during the revelation.

1. If a man is accused by his followers of stealing an underwear: is such leader of impeccable character?
2. If a son-in-law cannot trust his father-in-law with his wife, is that an impeccable character?

Judge this now and respond to the questions!!

honesttalk21:
Has anyone lived up to the challenge of presenting anything similar to the Quran?

Yes, many people made the Qur'an and Allah copied them
1. Umar is one
2. The Jinn is another
3. The Ant is another

honesttalk21:
Concept of God in Islam is very different from Greek. There's adequate semblance between Christianity and Greek beliefs on this point.

The concept of God in Greek is similar to that of Allah of the Muslims.
1. Zeus is one just as Allah
2. Zeus is not a spirit just as Allah is not a spirit
3. Zeus is neither Omnipotent nor Omniscient nor Omnipresent exactly like Allah
4. Zeus is a physical being just as Allah is a physical being

honesttalk21:
Traditional Jewish interpretations reject the notion that any human could literally be considered divine or begotten by God in a biological sense. Is this not what is said of Jesus?
Throughout Jewish history strict monotheism is maintained a that does not accommodate the idea of God having offspring in any literal sense.
Jews do not have a concept of God literally begetting any human, they rather view such language as metaphorical representations of special relationships established through covenants.

But the God of Abraham appeared as a man and eat food with Abraham.
But Allah is limited: he cannot as he isn't the Almighty

honesttalk21:
I asked you who this verse refers and do not name anyone. My point is simple. Please explain who the Prophet that can neither read nor write described in the Torah and the Gospel?

I am certain you cannot so why refer to the verse in the first place?

Such a verse doesn't exist ANYWHERE in the old testament or new testament of the bible AND I challenge you to show the verses in both the Old testament and the new testament if you think they exist.

Moreover, Mohammed could read and write. I am surprised that you don't know this!?

HE BECAME SAVE BY FAITH

TenQ:
There is NO single proof (outside Islam) that Mohammed existed outside the islamic narratives not to speak of evidence that he wrote the Qur'an.

Big pity. No evidence wrote the Quran anywhere. The Quran is a recitation and was primarily transmitted, learnt and memorized that way at the beginning.

Various non-Islamic texts from the 7th century and later provide evidence of the existence of prophet Muhammad pbuh. Consult Byzantine and Syriac resources that mention a leader of the Arabs named Muhammad, reflecting his prominence in the region during that time.

John of Damascus and other early Christian historians also refer to Muhammad and the rapid expansion of Islam, indicating that he was a significant historical figure.

Additionally, archaeological findings, inscriptions, and coins from that era have been linked to the early Islamic community, further corroborating accounts of his life and impact

TenQ:
Did any Muslim EVER ONCE see Jibril?
Don't forget that Jibril is very tall and has 600 wings: except if Jibril is indeed Dihyah Al-Kalbi

You need to be reminded of different forms angels manifest?
How many times was Jibril seen in the very tall form with 600 wings?

Angels, are described in various religious texts, particularly the Bible, have the ability to manifest in different forms depending on their mission and the context of their appearance.
These include:
Human Form where they appear as human beings, specifically resembling adult males. This is evident in several biblical accounts where angels interacted with humans without revealing their true nature.

When appearing in human form, angels can look exactly like ordinary people or may exhibit certain characteristics that suggest they are more than just humans.

Heavenly Form where angels manifest in a heavenly form that distinguishes them from mortals. This form is often characterized by brilliant light or radiant glory.

Winged Beings in respect of certain types of angels are depicted with wings which symbolize their role as messengers of God and their ability to traverse between heaven and earth.

While these winged depictions are common in art and literature, it is important to note that when angels appear to humans in scripture, they typically do not display wings unless they are seen in a vision or heavenly context.

Sometimes Jibril took the form of a human and served to teach early Muslims about Islam from discussions had with prophet Muhammad pbuh in their presence

TenQ:
1. If a man is accused by his followers of stealing an underwear: is such leader of impeccable character?
2. If a son-in-law cannot trust his father-in-law with his wife, is that an impeccable character?

Judge this now and respond to the questions!!

You say accused. Please was this proven and how serious was this accusation? Perhaps another weak attempt at jest as yours?

Who of prophet Muhammad's daughter's husband's wife did the prophet pbuh behave untrustworthy with?

TenQ:
Yes, many people made the Qur'an and Allah copied them
1. Umar is one
2. The Jinn is another
3. The Ant is another

This is most unfounded and a desperate lie from you. Non of this claim of yours is true.

Is it a means to elongate your false discussion?

TenQ:
The concept of God in Greek is similar to that of Allah of the Muslims.
1. Zeus is one just as Allah
2. Zeus is not a spirit just as Allah is not a spirit
3. Zeus is neither Omnipotent nor Omniscient nor Omnipresent exactly like Allah
4. Zeus is a physical being just as Allah is a physical being

Finally you admit the truth that the god/s you worship is not one.

In any case Zeus begets but Allah doesn't and isn't begotten.

The new testament god literally begets a son.

Allah is far beyond defining in mere physical or spiritual forms. There's nothing comparable to him

TenQ:
But the God of Abraham appeared as a man and eat food with Abraham.
But Allah is limited: he cannot as he isn't the Almighty

Big lie. You sure don't know or understand metaphors used in your Bible. Even at that the metaphorical appearance of God never ate with Abraham unless you have now created your own bible edit

TenQ:
Such a verse doesn't exist ANYWHERE in the old testament or new testament of the bible AND I challenge you to show the verses in both the Old testament and the new testament if you think they exist.

Moreover, Mohammed could read and write. I am surprised that you don't know this!?

Perhaps in the current edits you now have.

However John the Baptist was asked if he was any of 3 persons.
1. Elijah 2. The Messiah 3. That prophet.

Where are the explicit text describing that prophet who he was asked of in your Bible?


Interesting how this discussion shifted away from establishing the truth of the claimed crucifixion of Jesus.

honesttalk21:
Big lie. You sure don't know or understand metaphors used in your Bible. Even at that the metaphorical appearance of God never ate with Abraham unless you have now created your own bible edit

Gen 18:1-2,5-8:
"And the LORD appeared to him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, see, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, … And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort you your hearts; after that you shall pass on: for therefore are you come to your servant. And they said, So do, as you have said. And Abraham hastened into the tent to Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes on the hearth. And Abraham ran to the herd, and fetched a calf tender and good, and gave it to a young man; and he hurried to dress it. And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat."

Gen 18:16-17:
"And the men rose up from there, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way. And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;"

Can you remind me what my lie was about again?

honesttalk21:
Finally you admit the truth that the god/s you worship is not one.

In any case Zeus begets but Allah doesn't and isn't begotten.

The new testament god literally begets a son.

Allah is far beyond defining in mere physical or spiritual forms. There's nothing comparable to him

But Allah is physical!
Does Allah not have a leg with a shin?
Will Allah not put his foot on hell fire?
Did Allah not claim that he moulded Adam with his two hands?
Does Allah not have a shape?

Some of your books even described Allah as a young man in green dress.

Allah is PHYSICAL!


If Allah is not a Physical Being, why did your prophet compare Allah to the Dajjal?

Again:

1. Zeus is one just as Allah
2. Zeus is not a spirit just as Allah is not a spirit
3. Zeus is neither Omnipotent nor Omniscient nor Omnipresent exactly like Allah
4. Zeus is a physical being just as Allah is a physical being

honesttalk21:
You need to be reminded of different forms angels manifest?
How many times was Jibril seen in the very tall form with 600 wings?

Angels, are described in various religious texts, particularly the Bible, have the ability to manifest in different forms depending on their mission and the context of their appearance.
These include:
Human Form where they appear as human beings, specifically resembling adult males. This is evident in several biblical accounts where angels interacted with humans without revealing their true nature.

When appearing in human form, angels can look exactly like ordinary people or may exhibit certain characteristics that suggest they are more than just humans.

Heavenly Form where angels manifest in a heavenly form that distinguishes them from mortals. This form is often characterized by brilliant light or radiant glory.

Winged Beings in respect of certain types of angels are depicted with wings which symbolize their role as messengers of God and their ability to traverse between heaven and earth.

While these winged depictions are common in art and literature, it is important to note that when angels appear to humans in scripture, they typically do not display wings unless they are seen in a vision or heavenly context.

Sometimes Jibril took the form of a human and served to teach early Muslims about Islam from discussions had with prophet Muhammad pbuh in their presence

Tell me:
If Jibril came according to the description of Mohammed (just once), wouldn't there be several thousand witnesses?

Sahih Muslim 177 d
Masruq reported:
I said to 'A'isha: What about the words of Allah:" Then he drew nigh and came down, so he was at a distance of two bows or closer still: so He revealed to His servant what He revealed" (al-Qur'an, liii. 8-10)? She said: It implies Gabriel. He used to come to him (the Holy Prophet) in the shape of men; but he came at this time in his true form and blocked up the horizon of the sky.

Not one person saw Jibril apart from Mohammed!

TenQ:
But Allah is physical!
Does Allah not have a leg with a shin?
Will Allah not put his foot on hell fire?
Did Allah not claim that he moulded Adam with his two hands?
Does Allah not have a shape?

Some of your books even described Allah as a young man in green dress.

Allah is PHYSICAL!


If Allah is not a Physical Being, why did your prophet compare Allah to the Dajjal?

Again:

1. Zeus is one just as Allah
2. Zeus is not a spirit just as Allah is not a spirit
3. Zeus is neither Omnipotent nor Omniscient nor Omnipresent exactly like Allah
4. Zeus is a physical being just as Allah is a physical being

Allah is a unique and transcendent Being, not limited by physical form or human attributes. Allah is beyond human comprehension and does not resemble any creation. As stated in the Quran, "There is nothing like unto Him"

Glad you are silent in show of acknowledgement that your god is not one.

In any case Allah is very much unlike Zeus. He begets or father's no one.

Zeus represents a powerful father figure who begets children through divine intervention or physical relationships.

Jesus from your books and Christian belief is literally begotten of a god. Is your begeting god not a powerful father figure?

Allah is never referred to as father.

TenQ:
Gen 18:1-2,5-8:
"And the LORD appeared to him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, see, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, … And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort you your hearts; after that you shall pass on: for therefore are you come to your servant. And they said, So do, as you have said. And Abraham hastened into the tent to Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes on the hearth. And Abraham ran to the herd, and fetched a calf tender and good, and gave it to a young man; and he hurried to dress it. And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat."

Gen 18:16-17:
"And the men rose up from there, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way. And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;"

Can you remind me what my lie was about again?

Perhaps in biblical theology angels ate food but do they regularly do this?
Angels may eat physical food during their interactions with humans but do not require it for sustenance as human beings do.

Angels do not eat in Islam as they have no need to.

honesttalk21:
You say accused. Please was this proven and how serious was this accusation? Perhaps another weak attempt at jest as yours?

The Question is:
Why would the Sahaba of Mohammed accuse this man of impeccable character of stealing an underwear?

Till today, the Saudi FBI is still trying to determine who stole the underwear

honesttalk21:
Who of prophet Muhammad's daughter's husband's wife did the prophet pbuh behave untrustworthy with?

You mean prophet Mohammad son's wife:Zainab?
It was a shameless ratification of gross immorality that even Idolaters don't do openly.

honesttalk21:
This is most unfounded and a desperate lie from you. Non of this claim of yours is true.

Is it a means to elongate your false discussion?

Are you feigning Ignorance that Allah did not copy the Qur'an of Umar, the Jinn and the Ants into his Qur'an?

1. Allah copied Umar in Three matters and put it in the Qur'an

Musnad Ahmad 160
It was narrated that Anas said, 'Umar said:
I agreed with my Lord, may He be glorified and exalted, in three matters - or my Lord agreed with me in three matters, I said: O Messenger of Allah, why don't you take the Maqarn of Ibraheem as a place of prayer? Then Allah revealed the verse: `And take you (people) the Maqam (place) of Ibraheem (Abraham) [or the stone on which
Ibraheem (Abraham) stood while he was building the Ka'bah) as a place of prayer` (al Baqarah 2:125). And I said: Why don't you tell the Mothers of the Believers to observe hijab, for both righteous people and evildoers enter upon you? Then the verse of hijab was revealed. And I heard something about the Mothers of the Believers, so I talked to them and told them: You should stop bothering the Messenger of Allah ﷺ , or Allah will replace you with wives who are better than you and are Muslims. Then I came to one of the Mothers of the Believers and she said: O 'Umar, is it the case that the Messenger of Allah ﷺ cannot admonish his wives so that you come and admonish them? So I stopped, then Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, revealed the verse: “It may be if he divorced you (all) that his Lord will give him instead of you, wives better than you Muslims (who submit to Allah), believers, obedient (to Allah)...` [at­-Tahreerm 66:5)



Thrice Allah copied Umar and he wasn't even a prophet.


Is this hadith FALSE?

TenQ:
Tell me:
If Jibril came according to the description of Mohammed (just once), wouldn't there be several thousand witnesses?

Sahih Muslim 177 d
Masruq reported:
I said to 'A'isha: What about the words of Allah:" Then he drew nigh and came down, so he was at a distance of two bows or closer still: so He revealed to His servant what He revealed" (al-Qur'an, liii. 8-10)? She said: It implies Gabriel. He used to come to him (the Holy Prophet) in the shape of men; but he came at this time in his true form and blocked up the horizon of the sky.

Not one person saw Jibril apart from Mohammed!

Of course you don't discern or differentiate that Jibril appeared in the form with 600 wings just once.

Was it just once Jibril appeared to reveal the Quran in 23 years?

Abu Bakr was present during some of the encounters with Jibreel and witnessed the divine revelations

Ali, Umar and Aisha also witnessed the appearances of Jibreel and the revelations of the Quran


You are yet to respond to the identity of that Prophet John the Baptist was asked of. It is outside the primary discourse to expantiate on the doubts about the crucifixion.

I have also pointed the OP to a lack of consensus regarding the shroud of Turin discovered in 1400

honesttalk21:
Of course you don't discern or differentiate that Jibril appeared in the form with 600 wings just once.

Was it just once Jibril appeared to reveal the Quran in 23 years?

Abu Bakr was present during some of the encounters with Jibreel and witnessed the divine revelations

Ali, Umar and Aisha also witnessed the appearances of Jibreel and the revelations of the Quran


You are yet to respond to the identity of that Prophet John the Baptist was asked of. It is outside the primary discourse to expantiate on the doubts about the crucifixion.

I have also pointed the OP to a lack of consensus regarding the shroud of Turin discovered in 1400

You didn't answer the question:


If Jibril came according to the description of Mohammed (just once when he filled the horizon), wouldn't there be several thousand witnesses?

honesttalk21:
Allah is a unique and transcendent Being, not limited by physical form or human attributes. Allah is beyond human comprehension and does not resemble any creation. As stated in the Quran, "There is nothing like unto Him"

Glad you are silent in show of acknowledgement that your god is not one.

In any case Allah is very much unlike Zeus. He begets or father's no one.

Zeus represents a powerful father figure who begets children through divine intervention or physical relationships.

Jesus from your books and Christian belief is literally begotten of a god. Is your begeting god not a powerful father figure?

Allah is never referred to as father.

The bold is the truth for once from your own mouth mouth.

The God preached by Moses , David (OT) and Jesus (NT) is a FATHER!

Meaning that this God YHWH is Not Allah!

FYI:
Hermes and Hades are two greek gods who neither have wives nor have children. Perhaps, Allah is one of them.
Hermes and Hades are fathers to no one EXACTLY like Allah

honesttalk21:
Perhaps in biblical theology angels ate food but do they regularly do this?
Angels may eat physical food during their interactions with humans but do not require it for sustenance as human beings do.

Angels do not eat in Islam as they have no need to.

This point is NOT whether Angels or God need food for sustanance (for no single Christian or Jew preach this) BUT in their ABILITIES.

Have you seen now that the God of Abraham COULD come as a MAN and EAT with His chosen IF He CHOOSES without ceasing to be God?

Can you now concur that this is an impossibility for Allah to do?

TenQ:
The Question is:
Why would the Sahaba of Mohammed accuse this man of impeccable character of stealing an underwear?

Till today, the Saudi FBI is still trying to determine who stole the underwear

I will like to see this literature and or link to this please. Particularly your claim of the Saudi FBI.

The Sahaba did not accuse Prophet Muhammad pbuh of stealing. In Islam, the Prophet is regarded as the most trustworthy and honest individual, and the companions held him in the highest esteem.

TenQ:
The Question is:
You mean prophet Mohammad son's wife:Zainab?
It was a shameless ratification of gross immorality that even Idolaters don't do openly.

Kindly define son in law.
Was Zainab married to this son when the prophet Muhammad pbuh married her?

Allah is clear that biological children are not the same as adopted which are a result of sayings.
Who makes you a gauge of moral standards? Did the numerous idolaters challenge the prophet pbuh then and what was his response?

TenQ:
Are you feigning Ignorance that Allah did not copy the Qur'an of Umar, the Jinn and the Ants into his Qur'an?

1. Allah copied Umar in Three matters and put it in the Qur'an

Musnad Ahmad 160
It was narrated that Anas said, 'Umar said:
I agreed with my Lord, may He be glorified and exalted, in three matters - or my Lord agreed with me in three matters, I said: O Messenger of Allah, why don't you take the Maqarn of Ibraheem as a place of prayer? Then Allah revealed the verse: `And take you (people) the Maqam (place) of Ibraheem (Abraham) [or the stone on which
Ibraheem (Abraham) stood while he was building the Ka'bah) as a place of prayer` (al Baqarah 2:125). And I said: Why don't you tell the Mothers of the Believers to observe hijab, for both righteous people and evildoers enter upon you? Then the verse of hijab was revealed. And I heard something about the Mothers of the Believers, so I talked to them and told them: You should stop bothering the Messenger of Allah ﷺ , or Allah will replace you with wives who are better than you and are Muslims. Then I came to one of the Mothers of the Believers and she said: O 'Umar, is it the case that the Messenger of Allah ﷺ cannot admonish his wives so that you come and admonish them? So I stopped, then Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, revealed the verse: “It may be if he divorced you (all) that his Lord will give him instead of you, wives better than you Muslims (who submit to Allah), believers, obedient (to Allah)...` [at­-Tahreerm 66:5)



Thrice Allah copied Umar and he wasn't even a prophet.
Is this hadith FALSE?

You have a statement with the condition or and decide which premise takes precedence?

You are trying too hard in a wrong direction.
Umar ibn al-Khattab the second Caliph of Islam and one of the closest companions of the Prophet Muhammad, firmly believed in the divine origin of the Quran as the literal word of Allah revealed to the Prophet.

TenQ:
The bold is the truth for once from your own mouth mouth.

The God preached by Moses , David (OT) and Jesus (NT) is a FATHER!

Meaning that this God YHWH is Not Allah!

FYI:
Hermes and Hades are two greek gods who neither have wives nor have children. Perhaps, Allah is one of them.
Hermes and Hades are fathers to no one EXACTLY like Allah




This point is NOT whether Angels or God need food for sustanance (for no single Christian or Jew preach this) BUT in their ABILITIES.

Have you seen now that the God of Abraham COULD come as a MAN and EAT with His chosen IF He CHOOSES without ceasing to be God?

Can you now concur that this is an impossibility for Allah to do?

Too bad the Hermes and Hades of Greece have nothing to do with the propagation of Islam.

Pontius Pilate of Rome has a lot to do with Christianity, Zeus and the institutionalization of Christianity.

Thanks for pointing to another Zeus and other descendant of his are pointed to eating some meals.

Very much unlike Allah.

honesttalk21:
Too bad the Hermes and Hades of Greece have nothing to do with the propagation of Islam.

Pontius Pilate of Rome has a lot to do with Christianity, Zeus and the institutionalization of Christianity.

Thanks for pointing to another Zeus and other descendant of his are pointed to eating some meals.

Very much unlike Allah.

Do you at least admit that your most important core value for Allah is found with Hermes and Hades who are two greek gods that neither have wives nor have children.
Hermes and Hades are fathers to no one EXACTLY like Allah

honesttalk21:
I will like to see this literature and or link to this please. Particularly your claim of the Saudi FBI.

The Sahaba did not accuse Prophet Muhammad pbuh of stealing. In Islam, the Prophet is regarded as the most trustworthy and honest individual, and the companions held him in the highest esteem.

Case File Introduction:
1. Mohammed the Prophet of Allah was accused of Stealing a Piece of very beautiful RED sheet/garment/cloth that was admired by many of the followers of Mohammed. Everyone who last saw the cloth saw it with Mohammed and by his antecedent, knew that Mohammed stole the cloth. Mohammed denied stealing the cloth but he had not a single evidence to back himself with. Those who saw him amongst his followers kept insisting that their Prophet STOLE the garment.
2. The story was getting out of hand with everyone insisting that their prophet STOLE the Red garment that Mohammed had to call on his (fictitious) Allah to rescue him.
3. Unfortunately, not one of the followers of Mohammed had EVER seen Allah nor Jubril nor did Allah give his prophet ANY KIND of Evidence such as a MIRACLE to authenticate his prophet “Mohammed”. As of this time, ANYTHING Mohammed said Allah said was considered as being from Allah.
4. Mohammed in defending himself gave forth a revelation he said Allah gave him. The verse was recited to Mohammed’s followers in Quran 3:161

Supposed Allah’s Testimony:
Quran 3:161
It is not for any prophet to embezzle (steal: Ghulul). Whoso embezzleth will bring what he embezzled with him on the Day of Resurrection. Then every soul will be paid in full what it hath earned; and they will not be wronged.

THE WORD Ghulul is PROPERLY TRANSLATED AS STEALING (Taking something that is not yours illegally and deceitfully)

Quran 3:161
It is inconceivable that a Prophet would ever misappropriate (steal) anything from the war booty. Anyone who does so will carry it with him on the Day of Resurrection. Then every soul will be paid in full what it has earned and no one will be wronged.

5. Even though the testimony should have been rejected outrightly because there was no signature of the testimony by Allah. Mohammed himself wrote the testimony on behalf of the so-called Allah and he signed the document as “Allah’s Prophet” we present you with it as the fact on ground.
6. Muslim scholars in their Hadiths and Tafsirs tried to EXPLAIN the genesis of the verse acclaimed to have been received from Allah by Mohmmed

Sunan Abu Dawud (English) 30, Hadith 3960
Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas:
The verse "And no Prophet could (ever) be false to his trust" was revealed about a red velvet. When it was found missing on the day of Badr, some people said; Perhaps the Messenger of Allah has taken it. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down (Quran 3:161) "And no prophet could (ever) be false to his trust" to the end of the verse

7. UP TILL TODAY, THE RED CLOTH HAS NOT BEEN FOUND!


The Questions of the Prosecution to honesttalk21:
1. Can you please find any EVIDENCE that Mohammed was actually truly speaking for Allah?
2. If Allah is All-knowing and Mohammed is his prophet, can you please EXPLAIN why didn’t he say WHO stole the garment (as the case would have been permanently resolved)?
3. Why is it that the followers of Mohammed could even think or imagine that their prophet could even condescend so low to STEALING of anything?
4. Is there any prophet of God that has ever been accused of such despicable low-life acts like STEALING or FLIRTING with their son’s wife? (It was reported that some verses were also claimed to have been revealed about this despicable act with Zainab to defend Mr Qutham aka Mohammed)
5. Where is this Red cloth in question?

honesttalk21:
Kindly define son in law.
Was Zainab married to this son when the prophet Muhammad pbuh married her?

Allah is clear that biological children are not the same as adopted which are a result of sayings.
Who makes you a gauge of moral standards? Did the numerous idolaters challenge the prophet pbuh then and what was his response?

Let's assume that Mohammed never adopted Zaid but Zaid lived all his life from childhood to adulthood AND Mohammed was the one who married Zainab to him,
Is it morally right for Mohammed to marry Zainab on the excuse of Zaid divorcing her?

1. Who caused the divorce in the first place?
2. Is it halal or haram for a true Muslim man to enter into the house of another married Muslim man's house when he wasn't at home?
3. Who said this statement:
Blessed be Allah who made my heart to flip (move for you)
Is it appropriate for any true Muslim to appreciate another married Muslim woman like this?
Do you need evidence for this?

Please, evil is evil and should be condemned not justified.

honesttalk21:
You have a statement with the condition or and decide which premise takes precedence?

You are trying too hard in a wrong direction.
Umar ibn al-Khattab the second Caliph of Islam and one of the closest companions of the Prophet Muhammad, firmly believed in the divine origin of the Quran as the literal word of Allah revealed to the Prophet.

Is the hadith Maudi?
Sunan Ibn Majah 1009
It was narrated that Anas bin Malik told that ‘Umar said:
“I said: ‘O Messenger of Allah (ﷺ), why do you not take the Maqam of Ibrahim as a place of prayer?’ Then the following was revealed: ‘And take you (people) the Maqam of Ibrahim as a place of prayer.’” [2:125]




Umar did not claim that he didn't believe in the devine origin of the Qur'an. What he was saying was that part of those devine Qur'an came ORIGINALLY from him.

He was simply stylishly accusing your prophet of plagiarism.


Do you want us to look at the Jinn making perfect Qur'an?

Or Iblis making perfect Qur'an that even your prophet couldn't distinguish from the Qur'an of Jibril