₦airaland Forum

Lately I have been thinking a lot about death and the meaning of experiences in life. The thought of death is kinda liberating if I think about all the bad/painful experiences that I have experienced/will experience, in the sense that they are transient and can't last that long (like Epicurus' tetrapharmakos).

Then, on the other hand the same reasoning applies to good and joyful experiences that life offers: e.g. moments with friends, with your SO, in contact with nature, doing what you love, etc... If even these experiences are transient and not durable, what's the point of experiencing them? They are great to experience in the moment, but when they are about to end I always feel sadness and nostalgia. In the end we will die no matter what we have experienced. Will we have a satisfied look at those joyful moments the instant before we die?

So, summing it up: the memento mori concept is good (at least for me) when considering bad experiences, but also extremely depressing when considering the good times.

Does anyone think something like this? What's your take on this subject?

I've written about this subject before.

I use to have the wallpaper on my laptop screen, and each week, a box was ticked off, giving a general overview of how many years more I'll live, within the space of 100 years.

It can help with procrastination, and also to make you value each day and realise that time is all you have.

When play time comes to an end and it's time to go home or get ready for bed, young children will get upset and they do not want the play time to end. They get upset because they have not learned any other way to respond and because they do not have the rational thinking to understand that all things eventually come to an end. This is normal and even healthy for young children.

In his last interview before his death from esophageal cancer, Christopher Hitchens was asked what he dreaded most about his impending death. He said "The party will go on without me." I felt that he was sharing his feelings, those feeling that we had when we were young children. I also felt that he knew that it was a feeling, and nothing more.

The ancient Stoics often compared living a life with virtue, following nature, to maturing from a child into an adult.

Following nature is the same as being virtuous, which is being a fully mature, flourishing rational being, while being vicious is the same as being childish, sick, or injured. The intuition for what is mature and what is not seems similar to that assumed by modern English idioms like "He was the adult in the room." or "He was acting childishly." FAQ

I wonder if your liberation is the mature adult looking at life, and death, with reason, and the depression is the young child wanting play time to not end.

pansophist:
I've written about this subject before.

I use to have the wallpaper on my laptop screen, and each week, a box was ticked off, giving a general overview of how many years more I'll live, within the space of 100 years.

It can help with procrastination, and also to make you value each day and realise that time is all you have.

Hypothetical: If somehow humans would achieve immortality (both defeating aging, disease and let's say gunshot wounds and such) would life be any less meaningful?

Just curious about people's answers.

Tsarbomba:
Hypothetical: If somehow humans would achieve immortality (both defeating aging, disease and let's say gunshot wounds and such) would life be any less meaningful?

Just curious about people's answers.

I just came across this thread because I follow boss Pansophist, and surprisingly, I'm writing a book on this same title.

The matter/question surrounding life and death is a topic that’ll remain forever unsolved since people approach and absorb it differently.

On a personal scale, I’ve tried to not think too much into it because it’ll bring no solution. I mean, worrying too much about it will not solve world hunger or provide a cure for cancer.

Just like Christopher Hitchens said about the party going on without him after he dies; that’s about the main thing that stings me, being forgotten! If the world exploded and everyone died, I’ll give a salute on my way out and I know this sounds selfish but it’s just me.

Lastly, the momento mori concept? Well, all good (and bad) things must come to an end and it is what it is… worrying about moments in time is simply kicking a dead horse; nothing will change!

Death is really what is promised it is; rest… and rest is what it truly is because you no longer occupy that (dead) body and your body cares little of what it experienced when it had life in it!

Tsarbomba:
Hypothetical: If somehow humans would achieve immortality (both defeating aging, disease and let's say gunshot wounds and such) would life be any less meaningful?

Just curious about people's answers.

Yes. Life will become less meaningful.

Just as sand isn't valued compared to let's say gold, immortality will make life less valuable.

When there is only birth and living forever, without death and living shortly, there is no mourning for the dead, and no value for life.

Threatening someone with prison is meaningless because they will be out and live forever anyways. Concepts like procrastination, intentionality, and living uprightly won't exist.

The very essence of mortality and fleeting time gives meaning to all these things.

pansophist:
Yes. Life will become less meaningful.

Just as sand isn't valued compared to let's say gold, immortality will make life less valuable.

When there is only birth and living forever, without death and living shortly, there is no mourning for the dead, and no value for life.

Threatening someone with prison is meaningless because they will be out and live forever anyways. Concepts like procrastination, intentionality, and living uprightly won't exist.

The very essence of mortality and fleeting time gives meaning to all these things.

I think we have a very limited time. There is so much that I would like to learn and do but it is unlikely that I can get everything done in my lifetime.

If I had an infinite life, I could live a year or 5 years in each country in the world so I could learn about culture. Then I could spend a few decades learning about physics, chemistry, or biology. Then I could start a farm and learn how to live on the land. By that time, I’m sure I would have other goals that I could work on.

Some people are saying that without death, we would never get started on anything. I very much doubt that. I don’t go to work because I will die. I go to work because I need money and I like what I do. My life is interesting when I am productive.

Other people are saying that the world will be overpopulated if we have infinite lives. I imagine that people would have less children if they knew the children would live and they didn’t need children to take care of them in old age. We have already seen that when people are more wealthy, they have less children.

Imagine what you could do with the wisdom and knowledge you would have after a few hundred years of life. It would be a lot closer to meaningful than it is now.

pansophist:
Yes. Life will become less meaningful.

Just as sand isn't valued compared to let's say gold, immortality will make life less valuable.

When there is only birth and living forever, without death and living shortly, there is no mourning for the dead, and no value for life.

Threatening someone with prison is meaningless because they will be out and live forever anyways. Concepts like procrastination, intentionality, and living uprightly won't exist.

The very essence of mortality and fleeting time gives meaning to all these things.

Funny how I was just pondering on immortality this morning about how I once wrote on my class WhatsApp group chat 2-3 years ago that death is actually a blessing to humanity. I was unable to explain when they ask me to(someone actually said it and I just solidified the claim by agreeing which one or two others also agreed with) but this morning as I was reflecting on it, it made more sense like an old wine. If we don't die, life will become so boring and meaningless, sometimes there are some pains (accident victims) that only death could bring relief. Death will also make more sense if you believe in reincarnation.

Tsarbomba:
I think we have a very limited time. There is so much that I would like to learn and do but it is unlikely that I can get everything done in my lifetime.

If I had an infinite life, I could live a year or 5 years in each country in the world so I could learn about culture. Then I could spend a few decades learning about physics, chemistry, or biology. Then I could start a farm and learn how to live on the land. By that time, I’m sure I would have other goals that I could work on.

Some people are saying that without death, we would never get started on anything. I very much doubt that. I don’t go to work because I will die. I go to work because I need money and I like what I do. My life is interesting when I am productive.

Other people are saying that the world will be overpopulated if we have infinite lives. I imagine that people would have less children if they knew the children would live and they didn’t need children to take care of them in old age. We have already seen that when people are more wealthy, they have less children.

Imagine what you could do with the wisdom and knowledge you would have after a few hundred years of life. It would be a lot closer to meaningful than it is now.

First people that said we would never get started on anything in we live forever are almost perfectly right. True, you work now because you need money to do what? Tell me if I'm wrong when I say the money you need is to sustain life, so if the life you are working to sustain isn't going anywhere so what's the essence of working now? And if you say you don't need the money for sustaining life like feeding and shelter but to enjoy and experience a lot of it like traveling over the country as you pointed out that's where procrastination and carefree attitude comes in. Or let's assume you aren't procrastinating if you do all what you want to do, enjoy and learn let's say it took you 800 years, the you know how much years you will still live after that? That 800 years is like 0.00000000000000000001% of the life you will still live and what will be the essence of all you have enjoyed, learnt and experience. Trying to enjoy your life will become boredom in itself. Trust me we have learnt more we could have we've we were to be immortals. Through the short lifespan people know we have limited time so the do what they can and document it which others come and build on and upgrade and die and another set, and the cycle continues unlike when we are immortal and almost people will procrastinate and someone with a knowledge will not what to share or documents it down since there's enough time to finish and start on another project and would not want another person to take the credit of upgrading your research, why will I want to upgrade your research even when there is time for me to start mine from scratch and take credit.

pansophist:
I've written about this subject before.

I use to have the wallpaper on my laptop screen, and each week, a box was ticked off, giving a general overview of how many years more I'll live, within the space of 100 years.

It can help with procrastination, and also to make you value each day and realise that time is all you have.

Hi pansophist. I am about venturing into ghost writing. And I am in need of a mentor. Could you please be mine? I don't mind how much time you can give me. Just need that extra push to get better. I have never written before now. But I need to turn .g life around. Please

SpyMaster1:
Lately I have been thinking a lot about death and the meaning of experiences in life. The thought of death is kinda liberating if I think about all the bad/painful experiences that I have experienced/will experience, in the sense that they are transient and can't last that long (like Epicurus' tetrapharmakos).

Then, on the other hand the same reasoning applies to good and joyful experiences that life offers: e.g. moments with friends, with your SO, in contact with nature, doing what you love, etc... If even these experiences are transient and not durable, what's the point of experiencing them? They are great to experience in the moment, but when they are about to end I always feel sadness and nostalgia. In the end we will die no matter what we have experienced. Will we have a satisfied look at those joyful moments the instant before we die?

So, summing it up: the memento mori concept is good (at least for me) when considering bad experiences, but also extremely depressing when considering the good times.

Does anyone think something like this? What's your take on this subject?

This indeed is a very deep right up. I would have said try balance the two experiences up but we know some experiences whether good or bad are out(beyond) of our control. So the best you could do his try to create has much good experience you possibly can and let Nature do it's job of balancing it out with bad experience which maybe due to the consequences of some of the good experience you tried to create, what I do which I will recommend is to console yourself with the knowledge it would not last for long during bad experience and enjoy your good experience while it last even when you know it's only going to be for a short time. Like I usually say when I'm sad that it will surely pass and if it doesn't pass it means I died, which it isn't still a bad thing.

Tsarbomba:
Hypothetical: If somehow humans would achieve immortality (both defeating aging, disease and let's say gunshot wounds and such) would life be any less meaningful?

Just curious about people's answers.

Hmm I think if life were presented to us as eternal, and if we did not have a problem called death, we would not strive to vitalize it as much as we strive to embellish our allotted time on earth.

If we had immortal lives, our observations and experiences could have become meaningless, and we could have got bored after resigning from pursuing a meaning in life.

Happiness and sadness are experienced as a result of our doings. We name the life as good life or bad life [or, fair or unfair life]. In reality we are the ones who do good, or do evil [life is just life, it is not fair and it is not unfair]. As Montaigne tells, “If you have lived a day, you have seen all: one day is equal and like to all other days. There is no other light, no other shade; this very sun, this moon, these very stars, this very order and disposition of things, is the same your ancestors enjoyed, and that shall also entertain your posterity.”

The value of life is not about longitude but worthwhile living. There are such long-lived persons, whom I think lived very little, as in their long lives, they did not leave any marks to be remembered. Without thinking, criticizing, and reading, there are plenty of long lives that are wasted in anxieties. Living to the fullest does not depend on the numbers of years but on our capacity.

As Montaigne put it, “Death should not concern us. When alive, it cannot harm, because we are alive. When dead, it cannot harm, because we are no longer alive.”